soho
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by soho on Jan 5, 2022 12:06:05 GMT
I m still in dubio about the profile of my wife. She definitely shows DA and covert narcissistic behavior, but this is heavily linked to the fact that she will disengage when she feels hurt. Additionally she looks down on many people and blames everyone for everything instead of herself. On top of that, het views are always black or white.
For a long time I was convinced she just was a covert cerebral narcissist, but I really doubt due to fact that she s so often hurt, also for things that mature people shouldn’t feel hurt about. And she craves for attention and being listened to, including when's she wants to express her feelings. She s had a difficult youth but is not prepared to go in therapy since she believes her depressed feelings are caused by mistakes of others.
What do you think? Can DA/narcissistic people really feel hurt. And if not, I suppose my wife is none of these, since clearly she is suffering.
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Post by anne12 on Jan 5, 2022 12:41:13 GMT
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 5, 2022 13:57:57 GMT
I m still in dubio about the profile of my wife. She definitely shows DA and covert narcissistic behavior, but this is heavily linked to the fact that she will disengage when she feels hurt. Additionally she looks down on many people and blames everyone for everything instead of herself. On top of that, het views are always black or white. For a long time I was convinced she just was a covert cerebral narcissist, but I really doubt due to fact that she s so often hurt, also for things that mature people shouldn’t feel hurt about. And she craves for attention and being listened to, including when's she wants to express her feelings. She s had a difficult youth but is not prepared to go in therapy since she believes her depressed feelings are caused by mistakes of others. What do you think? Can DA/narcissistic people really feel hurt. And if not, I suppose my wife is none of these, since clearly she is suffering. I would be careful about trying to self diagnose her as narcissist. But to answer your question avoidants do feel hurt….narcissists however, due to low empathy, often use feelings in a much more manipulative fashion. Have you talked to her about her childhood and how that has influenced her view of people?
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soho
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by soho on Jan 5, 2022 14:39:45 GMT
Thanks! Already checked the other attachment styles in the past, but felt that DA was matching the most. Will go over it again. I’m OK, thanks for asking. It’s just not a ideal situation. I was a pure AP type in the past but think I managed to gain confidence. Next to that I m less dependent of my wife. Still, not sure about next steps. I ve been looking/hoping for too many years to have this solved. Seems we re heading to an exit (divorce) but that s the very last resort for me, also cause of the kids.
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soho
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by soho on Jan 5, 2022 14:49:37 GMT
I would be careful about trying to self diagnose her as narcissist. But to answer your question avoidants do feel hurt….narcissists however, due to low empathy, often use feelings in a much more manipulative fashion. Have you talked to her about her childhood and how that has influenced her view of people? You re right about the narcissism. Many things she does correspond to what cover narcissists do, but I really think her emotions are genuine. We ve been discussing her childhood and her issues many times. She really appreciates and likes the compassion. But one of my love languages is physical touch and despite everything I do she will rarely be open for affection (even not cuddling) and always come up with excuses. Btw: she has no physical traumas.
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 5, 2022 15:16:59 GMT
I would be careful about trying to self diagnose her as narcissist. But to answer your question avoidants do feel hurt….narcissists however, due to low empathy, often use feelings in a much more manipulative fashion. Have you talked to her about her childhood and how that has influenced her view of people? You re right about the narcissism. Many things she does correspond to what cover narcissists do, but I really think her emotions are genuine. We ve been discussing her childhood and her issues many times. She really appreciates and likes the compassion. But one of my love languages is physical touch and despite everything I do she will rarely be open for affection (even not cuddling) and always come up with excuses. Btw: she has no physical traumas. A dislike of physical touch can be tied to a boundary versus an actual physical trauma. Have you gone to couples therapy? If not, that would be a good avenue to explore.
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soho
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by soho on Jan 5, 2022 15:24:06 GMT
You re right about the narcissism. Many things she does correspond to what cover narcissists do, but I really think her emotions are genuine. We ve been discussing her childhood and her issues many times. She really appreciates and likes the compassion. But one of my love languages is physical touch and despite everything I do she will rarely be open for affection (even not cuddling) and always come up with excuses. Btw: she has no physical traumas. A dislike of physical touch can be tied to a boundary versus an actual physical trauma. Have you gone to couples therapy? If not, that would be a good avenue to explore. Unfortunately we have, with no success. Don t want to blame everything on het but she clearly wasn’t convinced and still repeats that I just have to do what she is telling me to make the relationship work.
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 5, 2022 15:38:29 GMT
A dislike of physical touch can be tied to a boundary versus an actual physical trauma. Have you gone to couples therapy? If not, that would be a good avenue to explore. Unfortunately we have, with no success. Don t want to blame everything on het but she clearly wasn’t convinced and still repeats that I just have to do what she is telling me to make the relationship work. That appears to be more then just attachment issues going on…but to me, it is a control issue…the world has to be the way I want it or I am unhappy. We all can be like that from time to time but if she is stuck in that mentality…the only thing you can do is to decide how you want to be. Are you seeing a therapist?
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soho
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by soho on Jan 5, 2022 15:45:25 GMT
Unfortunately we have, with no success. Don t want to blame everything on het but she clearly wasn’t convinced and still repeats that I just have to do what she is telling me to make the relationship work. That appears to be more then just attachment issues going on…but to me, it is a control issue…the world has to be the way I want it or I am unhappy. We all can be like that from time to time but if she is stuck in that mentality…the only thing you can do is to decide how you want to be. Are you seeing a therapist? First time I hear about a control issue as an individual thing, but many you re right. I ve been going to a therapist for a while. He gave me a growthpath and many elements. Now I should be able to handle it myself. Thing is that it s not guaranteed it will all be over with a divorce. Ideally I d like to postpone it until the kids have left home, but not sure whether that’s the best option.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2022 17:25:00 GMT
Why do you want to know if she can feel hurt?
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soho
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by soho on Jan 5, 2022 20:44:49 GMT
Why do you want to know if she can feel hurt? I don’t want to know whether she can feel hurt, cause she can. I was wondering if DA and narcissists could genuinely feel hurt. Cause for a long time I thought she was a narc but then I thought she couldn’t cause narcissists are not supposed to feel hurt by other people. So the question is not about my wife but about DA/Narcissists.
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Post by annieb on Jan 5, 2022 21:44:11 GMT
Everyone feels pain. It’s a human condition.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 5, 2022 21:58:57 GMT
Narcissists feel hurt. "Narcissistic injury" is a term for one type of hurt. But one of the hallmarks of a true personality disorder is complete lack of empathy. Unless she exhibits no empathy and can't recognize others are independent beings with feelings, not extensions / reflections of herself, she's probably not a narcissist. If there is a personality disorder present, black and white thinking can also be BPD as Anne said, which also has low true empathy.
The source of the hurt for both these types is a complete lack of self confidence. A simplification is, NPD replace it with a false self and project bluster and deflect onto everyone else to prop themselves up, BPD try to rely entirely on others for an identity because they don't know how to emotionally regulate themselves. Besides a lack of empathy, another central feature of both is lack of object permanence. Another oversimplification description, but essentially that means it's tough to hold consistent thoughts and feelings for things that aren't directly in front of them at all times. One of the causes of black and white thinking.
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soho
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by soho on Jan 7, 2022 8:29:39 GMT
Narcissists feel hurt. "Narcissistic injury" is a term for one type of hurt. But one of the hallmarks of a true personality disorder is complete lack of empathy. Unless she exhibits no empathy and can't recognize others are independent beings with feelings, not extensions / reflections of herself, she's probably not a narcissist. If there is a personality disorder present, black and white thinking can also be BPD as Anne said, which also has low true empathy. The source of the hurt for both these types is a complete lack of self confidence. A simplification is, NPD replace it with a false self and project bluster and deflect onto everyone else to prop themselves up, BPD try to rely entirely on others for an identity because they don't know how to emotionally regulate themselves. Besides a lack of empathy, another central feature of both is lack of object permanence. Another oversimplification description, but essentially that means it's tough to hold consistent thoughts and feelings for things that aren't directly in front of them at all times. One of the causes of black and white thinking. Thanks alexandra Have quickly checked, but the main characteristics of BDP match less. I wish she could get into therapy so that we wouldn’t have to break up. The cost of a divorce is gigantic, and all of that because my wife considers me and my family as the source of all evil.
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 7, 2022 10:00:00 GMT
Narcissists feel hurt. "Narcissistic injury" is a term for one type of hurt. But one of the hallmarks of a true personality disorder is complete lack of empathy. Unless she exhibits no empathy and can't recognize others are independent beings with feelings, not extensions / reflections of herself, she's probably not a narcissist. If there is a personality disorder present, black and white thinking can also be BPD as Anne said, which also has low true empathy. The source of the hurt for both these types is a complete lack of self confidence. A simplification is, NPD replace it with a false self and project bluster and deflect onto everyone else to prop themselves up, BPD try to rely entirely on others for an identity because they don't know how to emotionally regulate themselves. Besides a lack of empathy, another central feature of both is lack of object permanence. Another oversimplification description, but essentially that means it's tough to hold consistent thoughts and feelings for things that aren't directly in front of them at all times. One of the causes of black and white thinking. Thanks alexandra Have quickly checked, but the main characteristics of BDP match less. I wish she could get into therapy so that we wouldn’t have to break up. The cost of a divorce is gigantic, and all of that because my wife considers me and my family as the source of all evil. If you truly believe she is a narcissist…this forum really helped me when I was dating a narcissist. www.lisaescott.com/forum
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