|
Post by alexandra on Jan 28, 2022 4:32:38 GMT
seeking, you're learning to better recognize when you're deactivating. But frankly, online dating is a tough market. It's not just you, or just you doing something wrong. I know with the pandemic options are limited and there's some element of luck (matching with the right person at the right time), and otherwise wading through the noise and taking a break when it gets too frustrating. So far the conversation with the divorcee sounds worth further exploration.
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Jan 29, 2022 0:11:23 GMT
I don't know why what I posted earlier disappeared - I was saying I don't think it's going to work out with the divorced guy. But thank you for the support.
I have a lot of anxiety apparently about being around someone who is dorky. He's pretty dorky.
It's not even about him, but I'm realizing this layer from my parents and family around making fun of me. I'm pretty neurodivergent (either that or traumatized), and my parents were very "hip" - like they'd make fun of other people who were just stable. They were fascinated by other people who had routines, and did things a certain way. I grew up to believe you SHOULDN'T be like that. (You get mocked.)
They also always joked that I'd end up with someone who wore a pocket protector.
So I ended up with bad boy after bad boy - hot bad boys for years. Some even beat me up.
Now that I get it. Now that I've worked my a** off to get some stability in my own life, I'm still not sure about it. It can feel dreary to me sometimes, boring. Yet other parts of me love it and really appreciate it and have always wanted it.
Anyway, I'm noticing things about this guy that really appeal to me. I have to find out more information - I'm just observing (it could be him, it could be someone else) just saying - that I seem to only find people "interesting" or attractive or compelling if they have an "edge" and I think I get that from my family.
So far he's given me the outline of his whole weekend (like times). I didn't ask. I get the sense that he's clearly very organized and routine (he's an engineer) ... He also sends GIFS with flowers that say things like "Have a wonderful day." It's freaking cheesy. He's not a bad looking guy at all - but he's pretty dorky looking - thin, etc. I still have this part of me that wants to please my family. It's wild. Or thinks of things like what if we end up together (and again not THIS GUY - just this TYPE) and people/my friends judge me. It's stupid, but it comes up like a wall - I've had this before. It almost makes me feel apologetic.
And if I think back, the guy who ghosted had all the qualities I want - like I started describing early in the post... but the edge. He said he was a DIYer, introvert, coffee, quiet, looking for self-awareness, intelligence, etc. lots of words that make me go "yes" but good looking, young, has a really cool job. So there's the edge, that makes me go "Facebook worthy" brag a little to all the people that hurt me. (Trivial, I know - but just being fully transparent here in hopes that one day I can get past this). I felt like he was my "league" where I feel like the divorced guy is "beneath" me somehow - not really - but I think that's the fear. The terror, really, is that I'll end up settling, and in a relationship - which is ultra hard to find in the first place - with someone I can't respect.
Anyway, these are just observations. No idea if they will help me. But that's all I meant when I said I didn't have support in my life for types other than "edgy" and big romantic love.
So these are types - nothing to these particular guys - no need to discuss that again.
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Jan 29, 2022 0:18:57 GMT
FWIW, the edge I was endlessly attracted to for 20 years turned out to always be avoidant insecure attachment. DA or FA, as long as it was avoidant. I didn't understand that's what it was for the longest time, but it was about them seeming more confident in their willingness to be detached from prioritizing relationships and my frustration that I was obsessed with and could feel devastated by mine. Or they'd make major "mistakes" in their life and seem to cooly roll with the fallout punches, and I couldn't do that. Though now I know it was actually a sign of their instability and shutting down and not dealing with or processing stuff, not maturity in handling their stress that I didn't seem to possess. But when you're a slave to your AP overwhelm, and willing to blame yourself for not being perfect enough when your partner doesn't ever prioritize you, turns out that it can all be attractive.
|
|
|
Post by anne12 on Jan 29, 2022 1:02:48 GMT
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Jan 29, 2022 1:11:11 GMT
Yikes, what you wrote just hit on so much for me.
Tons of lights went off.
1 I thought I *was* over this. People here are saying, Hey you don't know that guy (the one who ghosted) and I'm all, Oh, I do. I do! I really do think it's a sixth sense of recognizing "the type" but I thought I had that figured out. I thought I averted that 100 times now. But he slipped in - and of course he's (probably) avoidant. His first note was SOOOO right there, connected, I wrote back. And poof. No explanation. Yes, he could have died, fallen down steps, etc. Yeah, we know all that - but more than likely if that's not the case, avoidants do that sh*t.
2. The recent friend I wrote about ... I just saw that whole situation in a different light. Being detached and cool was her thing. When I reacted to her situation it was like "woah, dude, too intense. You gave me a panic attack." That is what was so triggering about it for me. I hate being in that role - of the only one caring and that making me look stupid for caring or something. That is SUCh a familiar dynamic for me, and a dreaded one. It's kind of the dynamic of my parents and family - I literally think they are all avoidant (though my dad is more borderline, really).
Yeah, but it's weird that it's "attractive" - I guess what it is seemingly is "power" - I'm reading a book right now about narcissism and trauma bonding and it's like the intermittent reinforcement. They give and they take away - and that taking away feels god awful. (But literally acts like a drug - I think there is brain science around it).
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Jan 29, 2022 1:35:51 GMT
Yeah, wow. That's exactly it. Stops me every time. Or gives me FA-style relief when it ends and I don't have to face that.
|
|
|
Post by anne12 on Jan 29, 2022 1:37:56 GMT
It is possible to build up energy and attraction even if its not there with the dorky guy - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/45016/I can also recommend to do some ying breathing and some other heart opening exercises Ying breathing + Connecting gender and heart - on a daily basis - or every other day Open heart and love meditation exercise including breast massage - min. 3 times a week ( breast massage every day ) And talking to your heart - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/41677/
|
|
|
Post by cherrycola on Jan 29, 2022 1:51:34 GMT
Yeah the worrying what others think was a big one for me with my last ex M. My long term relationship before that was very smart, handsome, took care of himself, smelled good etc. I tend to dress nicely for myself, nothing crazy but put together usually.
When I met M he was heavier then anyone I had ever dated but he seemed to be putting in an effort, and I'm overweight so who am I to judge? But I just had such a hard time with his weight, his obsession with Lego at nearly 40. That he had little toys all over his house and car... And even his intellect at times. He was a smart guy career wise but he just didn't seem as smart as me when we had conversations. I was actually embarrassed to post photos of us online together and then felt shame because I was embarrassed.
I always felt like I was "dating down", it was really hard to respect him. I did come to appreciate some of the "negatives" about him, and I could admire that he was insanely good at his job.
But he just stopped trying completely after only a few months and I was left with this overweight unshaven man child who liked fighting with random people on facebook about meaningless topics and I never did figure out was it me being too picky and FA or would other people find this person hard to respect.
I think this is something I may be trying to unpack for awhile, this smugness that I am smart and pretty and awesome, yet I have a core wound that I am broken, fat and unlovable
|
|
|
Post by anne12 on Jan 29, 2022 2:47:56 GMT
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Jan 29, 2022 9:56:18 GMT
Yeah the worrying what others think was a big one for me with my last ex M. My long term relationship before that was very smart, handsome, took care of himself, smelled good etc. I tend to dress nicely for myself, nothing crazy but put together usually. When I met M he was heavier then anyone I had ever dated but he seemed to be putting in an effort, and I'm overweight so who am I to judge? But I just had such a hard time with his weight, his obsession with Lego at nearly 40. That he had little toys all over his house and car... And even his intellect at times. He was a smart guy career wise but he just didn't seem as smart as me when we had conversations. I was actually embarrassed to post photos of us online together and then felt shame because I was embarrassed. I always felt like I was "dating down", it was really hard to respect him. I did come to appreciate some of the "negatives" about him, and I could admire that he was insanely good at his job. But he just stopped trying completely after only a few months and I was left with this overweight unshaven man child who liked fighting with random people on facebook about meaningless topics and I never did figure out was it me being too picky and FA or would other people find this person hard to respect. I think this is something I may be trying to unpack for awhile, this smugness that I am smart and pretty and awesome, yet I have a core wound that I am broken, fat and unlovable I see this from miles and miles away and try to avoid it at all costs (i.e., swipe left repeatedly). That's why when I do see someone who *isn't that* (whether or not he is in real life), I get fixated. And some here have said "scarce," I guess. Because it feels so rare. But then I don't know if that's a trap - like I was talking about here with Alexandra - and like you said - is it b/c they are likely someone who is avoidant? Or is it really truly someone I can look up to/respect, which I feel is so essential in a connection for me. And I'm really afraid of feeling that with this current guy. We plan to talk Sunday but already I'm going -oh, can I handle this? That? (minor things - not red flags) but he clearly wants to be seen/known and shares info (not excessively) and so I'm just noticing that. Guys who are hidden and mystery - v. guys who can put things out there all up front.
|
|
|
Post by cherrycola on Jan 29, 2022 19:52:07 GMT
If I'm honest part of the reason we dated was because it felt safe to "date down". He persued me, he made it easy to date him. At first his positives seemed to ourweight his negatives.
So I think I'm afraid that I've done so much work already and maybe I'll find someone I think I can respect only for the dismissive in me to tear them down.
Sounds like we may be stuck on the same thing just at different steps. I let them in a bit and then find fault, you won't even let them in.
Most of my friends told me I am far too picky and that loving someone you just accept all their flaws. That I'm looking for someone who doesn't exist. But when I see some of the "flaws" they accept I'd rather be alone! I know no one is perfect.. I hope I get to the point where I can trust myself enough to differentiate between they aren't a great catch and I'm finding reasons to avoid getting close.
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Jan 29, 2022 20:53:39 GMT
Most of my friends told me I am far too picky and that loving someone you just accept all their flaws. That I'm looking for someone who doesn't exist. But when I see some of the "flaws" they accept I'd rather be alone! I know no one is perfect.. I hope I get to the point where I can trust myself enough to differentiate between they aren't a great catch and I'm finding reasons to avoid getting close. Your friends' perspectives are sort of not the best framing anyway. It's not that when you love someone you "accept their flaws." It's more that you just see them as a person, it's not seeing a set of check box marks and pros and cons and good and flaws. There's no power struggle, there's no beneath me or my equal or better than me, in the power sense (there's, we're both equal partners, in regards to being a team and there not being power struggles, which in my opinion is a good thing). Which means you don't want to change them, they just are who they are and you're compatible and okay with that or not. Like, of course my boyfriend isn't perfect, but anything that could be perceived as a flaw doesn't really matter because it's not in any space that I can't meet my own needs anyway. And what I mean is not that I'm in a situation where he's falling short or not stepping up, I mean where our differences are are generally minor and trivial as I can easily meet my own needs in those spaces anyway so there's no reason he can't be who he is holistically as a person. And there's no reason for me to feel critical because there's a couple different preferences and we're not exactly the same person, having a difference doesn't mean it's a bad or negative thing. It just is. And if we have a less trivial thing we're trying to work through, we just discuss it as equal adults and come up with a team plan, so again, it doesn't feel like I'm dealing with a flawed person. It's just a person. In taking this approach, you maintain trust and respect levels for the partner instead of fixating on flaws. That all being said, if the "flaws" are real dealbreakers, by all means, do not rationalize them just to try to stay in a broken relationship! But do keep in mind one person isn't supposed to be perfect and meet your every need. They're supposed to be compatible, cherry on top making life sweeter while you are able to feel whole on your own anyway with or without them (but prefer with).
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Jan 29, 2022 22:54:19 GMT
If I'm honest part of the reason we dated was because it felt safe to "date down". He persued me, he made it easy to date him. At first his positives seemed to ourweight his negatives. So I think I'm afraid that I've done so much work already and maybe I'll find someone I think I can respect only for the dismissive in me to tear them down. Sounds like we may be stuck on the same thing just at different steps. I let them in a bit and then find fault, you won't even let them in. Most of my friends told me I am far too picky and that loving someone you just accept all their flaws. So then I guess I am more FA Really the only time I've been "AP" like is with extreme DAs - so it's hard to know! But bring me someone who actually likes me, is present, available, and nope, I will find fault. It's a defensive mechanism. But bring me someone who is hot, has a great job, and earns money and is deep and kind - not sure. Lol. I might screw that up too. But it would be harder to find fault.... (I think) "But when I see some of the "flaws" they accept I'd rather be alone! I know no one is perfect.."I'm "picky" too - And, yes, I guess I'd rather be alone too. "I hope I get to the point where I can trust myself enough to differentiate between they aren't a great catch and I'm finding reasons to avoid getting close."Same! Although, I don't know - that book (it's old now) "Marry Him!" makes a good case for even "not a great catch." I have a friend who married someone - he's got money. She knew him before his wife left - they were friends. I cannot see for the life of him how she is with him. But she makes it work - lots of reframing. At the start of the pandemic, I remember telling her about a guy I was dating then that I really really liked him but not sure if I could get over his appearance. She was like "Does he want to _______ you with his _________?" LOL! I was like "Uh. Maybe?" And she's like, "Well that's hot, right?" So I see how she reframes. But in the end, the guy ghosted. The only reason I think I was with him was his extreme FA. Sigh.
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Jan 29, 2022 23:20:43 GMT
Most of my friends told me I am far too picky and that loving someone you just accept all their flaws. That I'm looking for someone who doesn't exist. But when I see some of the "flaws" they accept I'd rather be alone! I know no one is perfect.. I hope I get to the point where I can trust myself enough to differentiate between they aren't a great catch and I'm finding reasons to avoid getting close. Your friends' perspectives are sort of not the best framing anyway. It's not that when you love someone you "accept their flaws." It's more that you just see them as a person, it's not seeing a set of check box marks and pros and cons and good and flaws. There's no power struggle, there's no beneath me or my equal or better than me, in the power sense (there's, we're both equal partners, in regards to being a team and there not being power struggles, which in my opinion is a good thing). Which means you don't want to change them, they just are who they are and you're compatible and okay with that or not. Like, of course my boyfriend isn't perfect, but anything that could be perceived as a flaw doesn't really matter because it's not in any space that I can't meet my own needs anyway. And what I mean is not that I'm in a situation where he's falling short or not stepping up, I mean where our differences are are generally minor and trivial as I can easily meet my own needs in those spaces anyway so there's no reason he can't be who he is holistically as a person. And there's no reason for me to feel critical because there's a couple different preferences and we're not exactly the same person, having a difference doesn't mean it's a bad or negative thing. It just is. And if we have a less trivial thing we're trying to work through, we just discuss it as equal adults and come up with a team plan, so again, it doesn't feel like I'm dealing with a flawed person. It's just a person. In taking this approach, you maintain trust and respect levels for the partner instead of fixating on flaws. That all being said, if the "flaws" are real dealbreakers, by all means, do not rationalize them just to try to stay in a broken relationship! But do keep in mind one person isn't supposed to be perfect and meet your every need. They're supposed to be compatible, cherry on top making life sweeter while you are able to feel whole on your own anyway with or without them (but prefer with). This is helpful, but I know exactly what usernametaken is talking about. There has to be a kind of starting out attachment - like enough, I think, to get juices flowing, heart opening. And not in the hollywood way we are taught - be really just a foundation of connection, interest, warmth, etc. I think, for me, if that is there, that's huge. But it's rare. The rest feel like place-holders. Like someone to "fill the spot" who is "good enough." I won't speak for usernametaken - but for me, there is this neutral ground of a person who is "not bad" - like "nothing wrong" but not exactly right. The guy I'm talking to now has some big pieces of what I'm looking for that is hard to find (religion, politics, family, lifestyle) but nothing is making me go "ohhh" it's "just fine." Kind of banal in a way. Those are just check-boxes. He doesn't have other things. Some that are important, but I know not likely that I will even find at this point. But if someone comes along like the ghoster dude - I get excited. I felt my heart open. I felt vulnerable and a little scared, like "I could get rejected," which is terrifying but also maybe part of that FA ability to move toward if that makes sense? It's like false intimacy - if I know he will reject me, then I don't have to face my worst fear - being seen/vulnerable, etc. I don't know if this is making sense. But I think it's more a dynamic than a person. And it can be really subtle. I dated a guy for 18 months a couple years ago that I think I was drawn to for a lot of reasons. He was kind and gentle and doted on me - it was the opposite of what I had with my ex. He had 2 boys who I adored, and I loved when we were all together. And I spent like 16 of those 18 months perseverating and being miserable. And thinking it was me. Even long after it ended, I regretted it and thought that. But then as I got healthier, looking back, he was really co-dependent, told white lies (kind of a fawning thing), basically would do anything to please me (but not for himself); it was a really hard dynamic. So I don't regret it. But he's probably like the average guy out there. And s*x didn't work on his end and I didn't really like it very much - so that was pretty big. It might have gotten better. But I get so tired of those ambivalent relationships when you just don't know where to draw the line. And you know there are a TON of coupled people who have way worse but on the outside look like things are fine. So...
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Jan 30, 2022 1:45:39 GMT
I don't think anyone is saying accept ambivalent relationships, force anything, or settle for not feeling anything. I, at least, am saying if there's a connection to build on, one way to stop obsessing over flaws is to see someone as a whole person and not a pros and cons checklist.
It's also hard to turn off seeing your partner as a source of validation for everyone else (other people respecting you more for having a partner who fills whatever superficial cultural values that define what's attractive at the moment), but it's ultimately another construct in the mind of the individual that doesn't mean anything. Since I was insecure, I get it, I've done it myself, and I felt like the most popular guy in school was paying attention to me or something in those moments... but I was an adult, so no one actually cared... except me. And why did I care? It was because I was insecure and didn't trust myself and had the perceived voices and narratives of others in my head. But approaching each new person in constant judgement closes off one's emotional availability (that pesky avoidant side rearing its head).
Yes, if there's no connection or attraction after a few conversations / dates, or there's a bad feeling or even just red flags and dealbreakers, don't waste your time. There's layers of insecurity in here I'm seeing in the posts though, both anxious and avoidant, that are steering, even if they're really difficult to consciously parse out. Having been both on the insecure and secure sides, I'm attempting to try to present what I learned about the framing going into seeking new connections that allowed me to be actually open to a partner instead of searching endlessly for something unobtainable (as I wasn't solid enough in myself for anyone to fill those gaps for me) and choosing the avoidant edge every time (which then failed). It took me a lot of time and introspection to figure this out, and again, my actual choices in partners and who I felt attracted to did NOT shift until my security in myself grew. But again, I was coming from AP only and that's only the anxious side, and you need to add in more steps to address the avoidant side as well. Which was what I was attempting to do with identifying a framework that doesn't focus on flaws which inevitably sounds like it leads to deactivation.
|
|