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Post by seeking on Dec 4, 2022 3:00:18 GMT
I probably need to think this over a little more but my ADHD brain can ping around, so using this as a place-holder to make sure I can stay with this and observe it some more. This feels important, but I don't know why. Even though some of it is unrelated to relationships, it feels like one of the things I notice about myself that is a possible obstacle to secure attachment. I think the word is probably fickle. I can go really strong into something, like I did when I created a hybrid school (pod-homeschool co-op) the past 6 months. It was intense to say the least. I went at it with everything I had, and it came to life and it's a success. But recently I haven't been sure if it's what I really want. This is a very familiar "place" for me. It feels relational too. Part of the above problem is that I created this with someone who was probably one of the few people who could bring it to life. We work well together, but we ultimately have some different views about education. And sometimes I lean on her and defer to her b/c she has such a nice family and kids, and yet I am missing a big piece of my own values/soul in this. And then I do stuff like the past few nights, journaling, getting more in touch with my values, soul and start to see the things that aren't aligned in my life and start to have a bit of a flight response. "I can always pull out," "I can do something different this spring/next year, etc" When I KNOW there have been times that I have recognized this co-op I have created is ideal in so many ways. It's so much of what I wanted and needed. And then I go and think about how it's not REALLY like *ultimately* what I want. It fit the bill. It'll work for now. I do this with a lot of things. Tonight, the guy I've been writing about wrote me an email that made me cry. And the opposite happened (opposite to above). Instead of finding things wrong with him, reasons not to meet him, etc, I was like what the heck is wrong with me? Why would I pass this up - there is so much of what I want here. And I felt somatically different - warmth - probably a shift to parasympathetic. And then suddenly all the things I've been irritated by (a friend relationship, my dissatisfaction with the co-op, etc) suddenly seemed small. I used to do this TERRIBLY with living spaces. I would literally change my mind week, daily. I think it was a fantasy escape mechanism. I finally decided, this is home - granted *for now* (I rent). I did thorough investigation about buying and it won't work. I'm 100% certain about that. So I know this is a matter of time, and right now I'm okay with it. I'm sure if I bought it, it would be a different story <---- but this feels like it. As long as there is an escape plan, I can be okay with it. This feels so FA to me  I don't know why I feel really worried about being FA. But I'm so sure I'm AP. Lol. I'm confused. Anyway, curious if the above behaviors sound like __________________ (attachment behavior). Thoughts? |
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Post by usernametaken on Dec 4, 2022 4:48:33 GMT
Do you feel you are a perfectionist? Or hard on yourself?
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Post by seeking on Dec 4, 2022 14:23:36 GMT
Do you feel you are a perfectionist? Or hard on yourself? Not a perfectionist. Perhaps a bit hard on myself, but I've worked on that *steadily* for years. I'm sure it's still there but I don't have a lot of shame or strong inner critic. I do have a lot of survival mode/survival strategies ... However, last night, after A wrote me what he did, I realized it was SUCH an unfamiliar feeling. My ex is a covert narcissist, and I've grown so used to his behavior (we have a child together so still have to communicate). I'm so used to being treated as someone who is "a jerk" basically (like my dad and my ex can act like victims of me - even though they are the abusive ones). That to just have a straight-up "I will come and do this for you if this should happen" with no strings attached, was oddly astounding. It's totally normal. But not my normal. So that seemed to wake me up a little? And I guess with that feeling I noticed my connection to these other things - the irritating friend, the fleeing the co-op I created - sort of soften. I still have educational goals not being met. I still have issues with certain things around my friend, but rather than being in fight or flight with them, I felt more "secure" - which makes me think that when you have that secure base, perspective on other things shift. Like the friend thing is not so BIG and looming. The co-op thing is more manageable. Not saying A *is* my secure base. I'm my own secure base. But it would be meeting a big need--one that I've not had met much. So I don't know if that fickle-ness has anything to do with this. Just exploring .... |
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Post by usernametaken on Dec 4, 2022 16:51:13 GMT
I think it comes down to safety. If this is PERFECT then I can be safe. I asked about being a perfectionist because I find a lot of perfectionists can be quite critical of others because it is an extension of being critical of ones self. If I hold myself to impossible standards I am going to tend to hold others to that standard. Maybe also trust in oneself, which can be severely eroded once we have been through an abusive relationship. Trust that even if things aren't perfect, they will be okay, and if they are not okay, we have the inner strength to do something about it.
It is okay to be ones secure base AND find security in another. I don't think it is one or another. That is what healthy interdependence is about. I could do it myself but I am going to lean on you a bit and lighten my load.
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Post by seeking on Dec 4, 2022 17:50:08 GMT
I had some more thoughts after writing this - something to do with my family and the way I was raised, but can't exactly put a finger on it. My parents were "food snobs," they were also pretty cultured. Like there was a sort of amusement around regular/normal people doing regular/normal things.... that was sort of boring and banal. Even if we went to a really nice restaurant and were enjoying the food, my dad might make a comment or get quiet and then later say how we're not going back to that place, and I remember in my mind trying to think of why. What was wrong with it? And he'd have some reason - it was too dry, not this enough, etc. And then I'd realize, oh, maybe he's right. I didn't notice (until later when I also became a "food snob.") They would do this with people too - like become fascinated with how they "always shopped at the same store at the same time." Like that was something worth noting and "weird" - we were more interested in unusual people or interesting and odd people. Not normal ones. They were more to be made fun of. It's a strange thing I again can't put a finger on. But my parents didn't raise me in a "normal" way - granted, I lived in an abusive and sometimes violent household, outside of that, we had weird food at dinner, and odd antique (scary, even) paintings hanging in our 100-year old Victorian house, a fortune teller machine in our hallway when you walked in. As if just plain normal life were boring or something to "defend against" (is the phrase that comes up). I wonder if this contributed to making me "picky" in certain ways. But still, more importantly, wondering about my attachment style (not really psycho-analysis).
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Post by alexandra on Dec 4, 2022 18:43:36 GMT
What is your fear about having an FA attachment style rather than AP? The styles aren't about the label, they are about knowing what your issues are so you can access a proper roadmap to healing. There are bodies of research and exercises already worked out for each insecure style so you don't have to reinvent the wheel, and can find professionals who have the proper experience in your issues to be more helpful to you. FA generally comes with a much bigger distrust of others (in addition to distrust of self) than AP, plus tends to correlate higher with ADHD and PTSD-c. FA isn't "worse," all insecure attachment styles are disruptive to adult relationships, but FA has additional nuances to work through since there are the components that led to both anxious and avoidant coping mechanisms instead of just anxious. So while it's more to work through, not wanting to acknowledge your potential avoidant side doesn't make that go away, it simply makes it sit unaddressed, unhealed, and avoided.
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Post by seeking on Dec 4, 2022 19:14:07 GMT
I think it comes down to safety. If this is PERFECT then I can be safe. I asked about being a perfectionist because I find a lot of perfectionists can be quite critical of others because it is an extension of being critical of ones self. If I hold myself to impossible standards I am going to tend to hold others to that standard. Maybe also trust in oneself, which can be severely eroded once we have been through an abusive relationship. Trust that even if things aren't perfect, they will be okay, and if they are not okay, we have the inner strength to do something about it. It is okay to be ones secure base AND find security in another. I don't think it is one or another. That is what healthy interdependence is about. I could do it myself but I am going to lean on you a bit and lighten my load. This is interesting b/c I just wrote another reply without reading this first, so I wonder if that's what was happening with my parents - neither of whom are perfectionists, although my dad is highly highly critical of *everything* (not sure if that makes him a perfectionist, though - he's a hoarder and can live in clutter and a bit chaotic). But, yes, trust is a big thing for me. Trusting that I made the "right" decision. I've definitely gotten way better at that. Like instead of moving my whole house/location, can I stay and improve some things. Instead of leaving the entire co-op I created, can I supplement in ways that bring in more of what I want, etc. It used to be *way* more all or nothing. Esp. b/c I also didn't have any boundaries. |
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Post by seeking on Dec 4, 2022 21:33:11 GMT
What is your fear about having an FA attachment style rather than AP? The styles aren't about the label, they are about knowing what your issues are so you can access a proper roadmap to healing. There are bodies of research and exercises already worked out for each insecure style so you don't have to reinvent the wheel, and can find professionals who have the proper experience in your issues to be more helpful to you. FA generally comes with a much bigger distrust of others (in addition to distrust of self) than AP, plus tends to correlate higher with ADHD and PTSD-c. FA isn't "worse," all insecure attachment styles are disruptive to adult relationships, but FA has additional nuances to work through since there are the components that led to both anxious and avoidant coping mechanisms instead of just anxious. So while it's more to work through, not wanting to acknowledge your potential avoidant side doesn't make that go away, it simply makes it sit unaddressed, unhealed, and avoided. I'm not afraid of the label as much as that I've identified so much as being AP and felt more able to calm my anxiety, and done so much work on that, but of course that's not wasted. Just confusing b/c I feel like I have so many avoidant tendencies. And I feel more helpless/blindsided by those and not sure how to address them. Just feels like a boatload more work, but I guess if it's gotta be done, it's gotta be done. But, yes, I agree - and while I don't feel I have a huge distrust for others; the distrust for myself is a presence, not a huge thing. Definitely the ADHD can be a problem. I'm not diagnosed, but becoming more aware of the driving force behind that behavior and I think that's what's showing up here a bit in what I'm talking about - picky, fickle, changeable, etc. |
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Post by introvert on Dec 5, 2022 1:56:32 GMT
FWIW, seeking it is hard to grapple with the avoidance side sometimes because the feelings are not so acute, the behaviors not so attention grabbing so to speak, so it's kind of an insidious confusing dilemma. It's not so obvious sometimes that avoidance is happening- it's kind of stealth survival if you will lol. So no wonder you didn't realize it... the anxiety is a little louder I think. You can do it, it's just a little different working on this side of things but in the end its all very similar at the root. |
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Post by seeking on Dec 5, 2022 2:47:18 GMT
FWIW, seeking it is hard to grapple with the avoidance side sometimes because the feelings are not so acute, the behaviors not so attention grabbing so to speak, so it's kind of an insidious confusing dilemma. It's not so obvious sometimes that avoidance is happening- it's kind of stealth survival if you will lol. So no wonder you didn't realize it... the anxiety is a little louder I think. You can do it, it's just a little different working on this side of things but in the end its all very similar at the root. This is so helpful. Really puts a finger on what it was about FA for me. I don't have a handle on it, feels like a blindspot. Not sure how big it is or what to do about it yet, etc. Just like wow - always more to go. It is so stealth! Anxiety is definitely louder and way more obvious. I remember first talking to A and having this warmth and opening happening - esp in my heart - his voice, his manner, the pace of his talking, the subjects. And we talked easily for more than an hour and it was so easy. And then at the end of the convo he did one of his odd A things that I still haven't figured out, and said, "Okay, so talk in 4 weeks?" Or something like that, and I remember this sense of dread and confusion coming over me and the rest of the day feeling stumped and almost bitter. But that can be the beginning of avoidance for me. I have to really dig back and see that glimpse of when I felt too vulnerable, too open, and the person threw me a curveball. It's also like being highly highly sensitive. But I'm sure not all FA's are like that - it seems more AP at the core, but then presents as avoidant, if that makes sense. |
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Post by introvert on Dec 5, 2022 2:54:24 GMT
FWIW, seeking it is hard to grapple with the avoidance side sometimes because the feelings are not so acute, the behaviors not so attention grabbing so to speak, so it's kind of an insidious confusing dilemma. It's not so obvious sometimes that avoidance is happening- it's kind of stealth survival if you will lol. So no wonder you didn't realize it... the anxiety is a little louder I think. You can do it, it's just a little different working on this side of things but in the end its all very similar at the root. This is so helpful. Really puts a finger on what it was about FA for me. I don't have a handle on it, feels like a blindspot. Not sure how big it is or what to do about it yet, etc. Just like wow - always more to go. It is so stealth! Anxiety is definitely louder and way more obvious. I remember first talking to A and having this warmth and opening happening - esp in my heart - his voice, his manner, the pace of his talking, the subjects. And we talked easily for more than an hour and it was so easy. And then at the end of the convo he did one of his odd A things that I still haven't figured out, and said, "Okay, so talk in 4 weeks?" Or something like that, and I remember this sense of dread and confusion coming over me and the rest of the day feeling stumped and almost bitter. But that can be the beginning of avoidance for me. I have to really dig back and see that glimpse of when I felt too vulnerable, too open, and the person threw me a curveball. It's also like being highly highly sensitive. But I'm sure not all FA's are like that - it seems more AP at the core, but then presents as avoidant, if that makes sense. I get you- and yes there is that moment of trigger that I learned to become more aware of... and go back to that moment to understand what really happened. If I don't catch that moment, the veil comes down and all kinds of justifications of avoidance can start. It's so natural, insidious. A coping mechanism formed when I was so small. I don't get the same triggers, it all has become smaller for me. What a long way I have come. You will get there, one step at a time and don't forget the self love |
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Post by mrob on Dec 5, 2022 10:06:07 GMT
One thing that’s been missed though is that fear of engulfment. That need to get out as an FA. The life threatening urgency to get away. That’s loud, I assure you. Nothing stealthy about that.
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Post by introvert on Dec 5, 2022 16:45:23 GMT
One thing that’s been missed though is that fear of engulfment. That need to get out as an FA. The life threatening urgency to get away. That’s loud, I assure you. Nothing stealthy about that. Oops, yes I missed that because I don't experience the emergency energy. Definitely nothing stealth about that. The closest I've come is during a fight when tempers are high but it's not a feature of my attachment generally. |
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Post by seeking on Dec 5, 2022 16:56:33 GMT
One thing that’s been missed though is that fear of engulfment. That need to get out as an FA. The life threatening urgency to get away. That’s loud, I assure you. Nothing stealthy about that. That you named this, though, is so incredibly helpful and speaks to my point about being in a blindspot. I know this, but can't see it or name it so it's hard to do something about it. This is what I think happens with all the things I listened - the moving, the co-op, the relationship, the guy I'm talking to. While some of them don't get to life-threatening urgency, they can feel real urgent. And I call it feel of commitment and being "trapped" but I think engulfment is a big part of it. If there's anything more you'd want to say about engulfment, I'm all ears. |
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Post by introvert on Dec 5, 2022 17:15:50 GMT
One thing that’s been missed though is that fear of engulfment. That need to get out as an FA. The life threatening urgency to get away. That’s loud, I assure you. Nothing stealthy about that. That you named this, though, is so incredibly helpful and speaks to my point about being in a blindspot. I know this, but can't see it or name it so it's hard to do something about it. This is what I think happens with all the things I listened - the moving, the co-op, the relationship, the guy I'm talking to. While some of them don't get to life-threatening urgency, they can feel real urgent. And I call it feel of commitment and being "trapped" but I think engulfment is a big part of it. If there's anything more you'd want to say about engulfment, I'm all ears. That makes total sense with what you've described. So that's the "flight" energy right. I'd be interested in more about that also, as I think my energy is more about either fight or disappear where I'm standing, as in not adrenalized flight but back away slowly while my heart and mind go elsewhere. I wonder if the triggers are similar but I respond differently. So interesting. Not trying to make it about me but following up on the feedback I offered that might miss the mark for you seeking. We just had a little discussion about engulfment on another thread and this might help me understand more too. |
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I don't know why I feel really worried about being FA. But I'm so sure I'm AP. Lol. I'm confused.
