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Post by alexandra on Jan 17, 2023 17:58:59 GMT
He's not doing it consciously, but that doesn't matter. The fact that you told him you felt and he responded with, "I'm sorry YOU feel that way and you're hurting, maybe I'll think about it," means he's not open to hearing you. Which is fine, that tells you all you need to know about if he's in a growth mindset or not (he's not). While it sounds like his father is terrible and his past romantic relationships were terrible etc etc, it's also no excuse at his age. It's not easy, but I know plenty of people who went through trauma and bad relationships, got older, and took responsibility for themselves to overcome it. The fact he isn't or doesn't want to or can't doesn't necessarily make him a "bad" person but it makes him a terrible romantic partner.
You're trying to take on too much blame in this dynamic and using him as a mirror to put yourself down by for some reason convincing yourself he's the ideal and you're problematic in the relationship compared to him. It's not about good or bad at this point or who is right, it's about being incompatible, which is a neutral thing. You don't want the same things, and he's not capable of handling anything but a dysfunctional relationship with power and control issues. Of course you got upset when you saw him, you don't feel heard, because as I said, he can't hear you. That's the incompatibility, and it isn't an issue of blame, fault, or shame. It's very typical for anxious to want to take all the blame, no matter how painful, because it comes with some hope that if everything is your fault then you still have some amount of control over the situation to "fix" it. This is an insecure fallacy, but it helps to be aware of.
I agree with everything introvert is saying, too. The excess of pain still stems from you not having a stable foundation for and within yourself, both physically (housing, financially) and emotionally. That is still the spot to build up to get through this and find healthier situations for yourself in the future, not wondering if he's healthier than you.
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Post by lovebunny on Jan 17, 2023 19:53:15 GMT
To be clear, he wasn’t going to move the other woman in (at least that idea wasn’t presented to me) but he did want to do her in the guest room. Not sure that’s much better lol
Also I was NOT in this position financially when I agreed to move in! I had a rent controlled house and something in my savings account. I moved out of the city with him, put $ into animal pens and my studio, and cut down on shifts to make up for commute, and in the meantime, rents got outrageous. Today I told work to beef up my schedule so hopefully that’ll fix it.
This morning I got a panicked text from him about his mortgage and his lack of health insurance and dying alone. He admitted his attitude yesterday was pure defensive. He gave me back the last couple months rent I’d payed him, but now he’s broke.
None of this matters. I need to move on, I’m not going to get what I want and need from him. I gotta start packing my stuff this week. I’m waiting to hear about the apartment I want by end of week. If not I’ll try to secure my second choice. Brakes on car are fixed as of today, so there I’m being a good adult. Thank you guys so much for caring, I don’t want to exhaust my friends with ex f stuff
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Post by lovebunny on Jan 17, 2023 20:02:29 GMT
This isn't about him being open minded and you being controlling and closed minded. I'll give you that you went into his world of multiple partners and probably tried to strike some sort of deal and turn the dial toward your preferences, and it didn't work. You probably did your fair share of manipulating yourself and him. You likely opted to deny what was in front of your eyes in favor of a fantasy in your mind. All that was unhealthy and originated in you, so ultimately you were fair game simply because you were insecure and unhealthy enough to play this game. Ouch, but true. I convinced myself every time he kicked it up a notch that it wasn’t so bad, I could take it. And I definitely tried to change his mind and move the dial my way. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2023 20:20:22 GMT
This isn't about him being open minded and you being controlling and closed minded. I'll give you that you went into his world of multiple partners and probably tried to strike some sort of deal and turn the dial toward your preferences, and it didn't work. You probably did your fair share of manipulating yourself and him. You likely opted to deny what was in front of your eyes in favor of a fantasy in your mind. All that was unhealthy and originated in you, so ultimately you were fair game simply because you were insecure and unhealthy enough to play this game. Ouch, but true. I convinced myself every time he kicked it up a notch that it wasn’t so bad, I could take it. And I definitely tried to change his mind and move the dial my way. I'm sure we've all gotten ourselves into shitty situations with distorted thinking... we live and learn (hopefully!) There's a way out but for me it took real self-honesty and accountability for my own contribution to the mess. Not to beat myself up- but to see honestly where I went wrong and what I needed to work on. I had to grow the eff up basically, haha. BUT the route to doing that was paved with self love and empathy for the girl in me that didn't know better at the time. Once you know better, you're accountable to that. And as for him, boo hoo, it sucks to have your cake and eat it too. Why? Because people that make good partners don't generally do things his way, all for him with no expectation for commitment and a solid future. Relationships are financial arrangements, as well as emotional bonds. That's just the truth. We live in a real world where partnership matters for fundamental stuff as well as for getting old and not dying alone. He's got a way to go, he will have to figure himself but not on your time. |
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Post by cherrycola on Jan 18, 2023 1:56:52 GMT
I'm very proud of you. It sounds like you are taking a lot of good steps and showing a lot of strength. I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to hover you back in after a few weeks when his nervous system settles and he realizes what he is losing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2023 2:32:58 GMT
I'm very proud of you. It sounds like you are taking a lot of good steps and showing a lot of strength. I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to hover you back in after a few weeks when his nervous system settles and he realizes what he is losing. Yeah I'm proud of you too lovebunny , I think you're doing great |
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Post by lovebunny on Jan 18, 2023 14:26:27 GMT
Wow thank you, I really appreciate the encouragement.
I don't think he'll try to hover me....I mean, not into a relationship anyway, though I can see him trying to get sex from me. I believe he broke up with me in his head months ago and already mourned and moved on. Besides, he's convinced that plenty of women will take what he's offering. I can see him trying to hover in a year or so when he realizes he's not getting enough sex, attention, affection, but I'm not holding my breath.
Today going to try to figure out how to transport my smaller paddleboard into the city so at least I have that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2023 15:03:01 GMT
Wow thank you, I really appreciate the encouragement. I don't think he'll try to hover me....I mean, not into a relationship anyway, though I can see him trying to get sex from me. I believe he broke up with me in his head months ago and already mourned and moved on. Besides, he's convinced that plenty of women will take what he's offering. I can see him trying to hover in a year or so when he realizes he's not getting enough sex, attention, affection, but I'm not holding my breath. Today going to try to figure out how to transport my smaller paddleboard into the city so at least I have that. Wow, it's hilarious, I mean the two women he's been with in the last three years have had a really serious issue with this... he's probably too self absorbed to notice how other people are doing except for how it relates to him. So you chased him, he got the idea he's successful with women. She broke up but came back, he's successful. Just wait till he picks up a side piece to replace the new Settler, she will chase him desperately and be miserable making him even MORE successful! Proven by how enamored the new side piece is. What a great guy. |
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Post by anne12 on Jan 18, 2023 18:51:37 GMT
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Post by lovebunny on Jan 18, 2023 20:39:52 GMT
Yes! Wrecking Ball also feels right..... |
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 18, 2023 20:58:38 GMT
Thank you all so much for this much-needed reality check! I made the mistake of interacting with him yesterday. He'd sent me an "you are deeply missed text," and I asked him to bring me something I needed, so we met at a kava bar for the hand-off. I completely fell apart when I saw him, totally re-started the emotional bleeding. He's doing fine without me. Though he misses me, he does not miss the "pressure" of our relationship. I ended up accusing him of exactly everything talked about above. It wasn't the first time I've said it. He comes off as such a good man--and of course, he has his moments where that's exactly who he is, I know it's not blackandwhite. But it's so confusing. I don't think he even does any of this consciously, I just started reading MEN WHO CAN'T LOVE, and I think this might be him. He was married young/had kids with a bipolar, extremely difficult person (I know her from outside of him, our work lives cross paths, and he isn't exaggerating how difficult she is.) After that, his 2nd long-term relationship, which ended in marriage to help her get her green card, lasted 3 years, same as ours. Apparently, she was rabidly jealous of the fact that he has mostly female friends, a thing I wasn't fond of either, but could accept. I met his father once for 10 minutes (they're mostly estranged, parents divorced long ago) and the guy came off as self-absorbed misogynist from hell. Exbf didn't argue back when I accused him of using women for his own gratification, of being scared of commitment and intimacy. He just said "I know you're hurting and need to vent, I still care about you and want you to be ok, I feel horrible that you're displaced and upset, whatever you need from me right now to get in a more comfortable place, I'll do...." He said he'd "think about" what I said, but he didn't think he was at all predatory or in the wrong in any way. In his mind, he just wants to be poly and I don't. He wants to go out all night doing whatever with whoever, while I want to "get old" and "settle down." I think I'm ready for as close to No Contact as I can go at the moment (I still need to go to his home for my things and need his help moving.) Because seeing him and talking to him just makes me second-guess myself. I start thinking maybe I truly was too controlling. Maybe I am less open-minded than I realized. Maybe he's soooo emotionally healthy he can walk away from a woman he loves to live the life he wants to live, while I'm so clingy and anxious and pathetic I will take months if not years to get over this. He has plenty of friends (though honestly, I couldn't stand all but one of his friends. Most of them are kind of losers tbh.) But they love and support him, while my friend group is smaller and they're people with lots of things going on and I don't typically spend a lot of time with them. As I said, past few nights I'm just by myself watching tv, reading, and sleeping a lot.Thinking about him sets me spinning, and as with all my breakups, rumination becomes a problem. I am "fine" but not ok. I'm so so far away from where I want to be in life, alone and with no permanent address, about to be in debt to cover F/L/S. I'm lonely, my self-esteem has taken a blow, and I don't see these feelings going away tomorrow or the next day. I hope y'all don't mind if I keep writing here for a bit, it does help to have strangers on the internet tell me I'm not crazy, that something really was wrong here, so thank you! Honestly….when I read his responses…I get a very narc vibe. I “dated” a narc for 3 years and it was all about him….he was so composed while I was an emotional mess. It can seem very…ummm…healthy, until you realize that everything was so very one sided….no compromise, no real ability to see from anyone else’s perspective. For him, it wasn’t a poly thing…it was a main relationship with not so secret sideline girls. It was by far the worst “relationship” entanglement I ever got myself into. I think No Contact will be so good for you…he has had the control all this time…NC will give you your control back. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 18, 2023 21:02:47 GMT
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Post by seeking on Jan 19, 2023 1:09:57 GMT
Agree with tnr9. I've been thinking narc the whole time. The composure. He moved right on. Unfortunately, we have a kid together and his GF does not see it at all and thinks I'm the problem. There's so much healing after this type of thing. I can still go into weird spells of dismay and PTSD from it. I am working hard in IFS therapy to understand my role in it. How I've over-ridden myself again and again. If I could go no contact, I would in a heartbeat. His energy can still be very predatory and he has no interest in my well being.
The best thing anyone said about it to me recently - when he was here to see our daughter, and he was walking to the playground outside my house with his GF and their new baby and her kids, was "You're not good supply."
And that is a huge testament to my healing. I don't make good narc bait any longer. I feel like I deserve a trophy for that one. But even though the trauma will always be with me, because I'm human, I consider that a huge accomplishment.
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 19, 2023 3:06:56 GMT
Agree with tnr9. I've been thinking narc the whole time. The composure. He moved right on. Unfortunately, we have a kid together and his GF does not see it at all and thinks I'm the problem. There's so much healing after this type of thing. I can still go into weird spells of dismay and PTSD from it. I am working hard in IFS therapy to understand my role in it. How I've over-ridden myself again and again. If I could go no contact, I would in a heartbeat. His energy can still be very predatory and he has no interest in my well being. The best thing anyone said about it to me recently - when he was here to see our daughter, and he was walking to the playground outside my house with his GF and their new baby and her kids, was "You're not good supply." And that is a huge testament to my healing. I don't make good narc bait any longer. I feel like I deserve a trophy for that one. But even though the trauma will always be with me, because I'm human, I consider that a huge accomplishment. It truly is….and the narc I dated sent me a friend request recently. As if nothing changed, as if I had been waiting for him in the 12 years since the last time he broke up with me. And to top all of that off, he is married and has a daughter (rolls eyes). Congrats on no longer being good supply….that is a great step forward. |
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Post by lovebunny on Jan 19, 2023 13:57:36 GMT
Years ago, I dated with someone who pretty much told me she was NPD, who also happened to be polyamorous, and definitely she used poly as a way to avoid commitment or responsibility to anyone else. That was a brief affair, but one that took me 3 dang years to recover from, the change from the person in the beginning to the person at the end made my head spin. My sympathy for those of you who have gone through that longterm, I ran screaming after 5 months.
I never thought exbf was a narcissist, I've seen him have real empathy, and, believe it or not, humility. I've seen him perform acts of kindness that didn't benefit him in the least. But he certainly has a few traits. Thinking the rules don't apply to him is one, for example, he gets himself in all kinds of trouble thinking his actions don't have consequences. And yeah, the way he can be happy about having 2 women even though the women are unhappy certainly rings alarms. He is remarkably self-absorbed, emotionally immature, and of course a good dose of untreated ADHD.
I'm reading MEN WHO CAN'T LOVE, and though it's old-school sex-negative ("the problem is the women's lib"!) I recognize exbf in the minds of men who can't commit, and I see some of myself too....because apparently, I make sure I choose people who are emotionally unavailable so I don't have to commit either.
I really think at some point quite soon after I moved in with him, he was broken up with sidechick with no other women interested in him, panic set in, and he started viewing me and everything I did as a trap. I have commented to him before that he ascribed motivations to my actions that were NOT what was going on in my reality, often thinking my intention was to control him, whereas in my mind I was just trying to create safety for myself.
I have to go to the house today to start packing, I think he may be around at some point if I'm still there when he gets off work. Going to try to be chill and friendly, I don't want to break down emotionally in front of him anymore, it's pointless.
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