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Post by seeking on Jan 21, 2023 0:37:18 GMT
I want to try to understand this so I can heal from it more. Would appreciate any feedback particularly to help me understand what roles were happening here - AP/FA/Narcissism?
I wrote it in 3 parts -- the relationship, the aftermath, and the now. I'm posting the first part, since it's long - way I don't lose it again (keeps disappearing on my screen and I have to rewrite).
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Post by seeking on Jan 21, 2023 0:52:04 GMT
I met him on a dating site and immediately was AP.
First date, he was late. I was very upset, and called him on it. (This turned out to be a pattern for him that drove me crazy and made him feel controlled by me).
I can't remember what happened after our first date. He didn't kiss me. I "fell" for him - whether or not I liked him, I just thought he was cute and I was really insecure.
I didn't realize he was dating someone else. I think I wrote him since I didn't hear from him and we talked then he said he "decided he liked me." He came across as skeptical. If I showed too much "passion" (making out with him, etc) he got a little freaked out.
He pressured me to have sex when I wasn't ready. Said "What are we 18?"
Then he pressured me (this is really odd) to "do the unconventional thing" (his words) and have a baby.
I was 36 with a ticking clock. We knew each other like a month? 6 weeks?
I said, I want to go to Italy first and write a book.
He pressured me more.
It wasn't long after we had sex that I got pregnant.
He had no interest in marrying me. From the very beginning, I'm sure others perceived us as me being the "older woman" (6 years) and he just this innocent guy (he was 29 at the time) and I was pursuing him or something.
I really did want to go to Italy and write a book.
So we moved in together. Families met, had a baby shower.
I would do things like get excited about going to a birthing class and he wouldn't come home from work on time. And then sulk if I got upset.
He had a TON of trauma from an abusive mom. One time I yelled at him for making me wait - very pregnant - in a car in another town (we were supposed to meet at a certain time and he didn't even tell me he was going to be late - when I called him, he hadn't even left yet and he was 40 minutes away). He started crying like in this weird whimpery/victimy way.
I got really triggered by him really easily mostly b/c he triggered a lot of abandonment. He had this way of just leaving -- Or even if he wasn't physically leaving, he'd sort of psychically leave the room. After our kid, we'd be at church and I'd really want to share a moment with him and I'd look at him and he was totally checked out or disconnected from me. Or he'd go to the bathroom for a long time. One time, we were at the circus with my parents and our kid and he got up and just sort of disappeared for an hour.
All I know is that I felt alone - and left - a lot.
After our baby was born, our doula told us to list 3 things we wanted for ourselves - I wanted to travel. I showed him my things and asked if he'd done his, and he got pissy with me and sulked. Although I have to say, he rarely displayed anger. When he did - it was insane. But mostly he would sort of sulk, get quiet, withdraw/shut down, and act very victimy. Like he was the victim of me.
Then he would come home from work at 9 pm. I was stretched thin. I'd be up all night, nursing our baby, trying to work a bit during the day, having my mom come over to help-- I was basically single parenting. Weekends, he'd make plans without involving me. Even though it would be something like his young nephew's birthday party, he would just tell me he had to go and not invite me?
Eventually my mother asked if I thought he was staying at work late on purpose. It had never even occurred to me. I asked him and he said yes!
We were in therapy and I told our therapist I really really just wanted dinners as a family. Somehow that was an odd request - like I was nuts for wanting that. The therapist and him were like "It's not the 1950s."
Later, when our daughter was 2, he came home with a brand new car. It was hot pink. My neighbor said if that were her husband, she'd leave him.
A new therapist observed during a session that he was "completely disconnected" from me. Later, she told me "He's a narcissist. Leave him."
The last straw was when I threw him a birthday party and he stayed in his room while I ran around getting special dessert and making all this food with an infant while our families sat in another room.
On a side note, I'm certain he has Aspbergers -- He once asked me if I noticed him ever doing "weird things" - and he did - it wasn't quite "stimming" but he'd look to the left over and over or do some repetitive movements - sort of like tics? I just ignored it.
My mom said he would pace and do strange things.
He told me had delays when he was young and a doctor said he had autism. Then later (as in when our kid was diagnosed) he told me he never said that.
This is a lot of just one-liners so I know it all sounds super odd. But I'm just pointing out the "highlights" - because I'm literally still trying to figure out what was what.
We stopped sleeping together at some point. He'd sleep in another room b/c our daughter had to nurse a lot at night, and he needed his sleep. He started looking at porn. I didn't realize this but when I asked him if maybe his medication (I think he was on antidepressants) was making things kinda not work and that was why we weren't having sex he became super insulted and sulky.
I often shouted at him at the top of my lungs. Once I literally took all my clothes off and threw myself at him --- that was my crazy. Later, I realized 1) I had huge amounts of trauma. The shouting was like an alarm bell going off in my system 2) our house had mold. His father actually told me recently he was really worried about us in that house- not that that's an excuse for shouting, but I really think my brain was like inflamed - I also had some PPD - mostly fatigue and overwhelm and some anxiety about our baby being exposed to germs.
Fast forward, he would get angry with me if I asked for stuff we needed. I was working part time and he was gone all the time. He was supporting us. He eventually told me I needed to find a job and make X amount.
After the birthday party incident, I just sat myself down and was like what is happening here? I went into his "room" - he seemed to need a lot of his own space - and asked flat out if he was talking to other people or looking at porn. He said he was in touch with an old girlfriend. Yes to porn. I asked him to leave. He told me to leave. I said I'm not leaving our house. He stayed in a hotel and then came back and tried to win me over.
The relief I felt the first time he left was pronounced. I can't even explain it. Those days were so foggy. But his energy was so heavy. Without him there, I felt like I remembered that I was actually an okay person. It was like he'd silently started to hate me and I could feel it.
My therapist called it "passive resistance."
I could take a huge sigh of relief when he wasn't there, but I was grief-stricken all the same. Yet I was happy to try to work, parent my baby, and move on. I dated. My parents helped me. We went to mediation and I had success in getting support and the visitation schedule I wanted (since my daughter was still nursing.)
So he would come to our house to see our daughter - I usually left or worked.
About a year and a half later, he came over one night and was reading to our kid, and came out of the room and came over and hugged me.
Things started up again. I remember being in bed with him and sort of joking, "Does this make us boyfriend and girlfriend now?" And he freaked out. He said I was enmeshing with him.
I always felt desperately needy with him. Like I was too much. I wanted too much. I lost perspective.
We went on like this and I stopped his support payments and he began staying more.
One time he came over and told me he got a new job. He'd have to travel - his income increased a lot. And hew as dropping time with our kid. I flipped out. I said you have to pay for a sitter. I work. He had his schedule and I had mine. And he lost his mind on me - he told me that if I jeopardized his job he'd "Do things to me the likes of which I've never seen."
I called domestic violence. I told his dad. I was advised to try to get a restraining order.
He saw my domestic violence papers and said, "I can't believe you'd do that."
I was scared. I was tired. Done, confused. It was all just so confusing.
It was like childhood. I never knew what the rules were. I don't remember if people really liked me or got me. I felt very alone. I felt like I was doing it all wrong. Like I was wrong.
We went back to visitation and he'd flirt with me. I had to take him to court this time for child support since he "forgot to pay" (for 18 months). Right before we got to court, he asked me to go to mediation. We did. We had a conversation then and he literally told me - with sincerity - he believed that all of this was my fault. ALL of it. I couldn't believe he meant that.
The time came that I had to leave our moldy house. I financially couldn't stay in the area we lived in or even miles around. I moved about an hour away and got a fresh start - within 2 months, he came down and tried with me again. --
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Post by seeking on Jan 21, 2023 1:11:48 GMT
This is where things got murky. I had a friend who observed, "It's like every time you get back on your feet, he takes you down again. Don't do it." But I did it. I justified it - he'd always been talking about how he was going to go on disability - and so I figured if we lived together it would be so much easier all around with money and not having to deal with custody and visitation. But he was still back to his weird sh*t that made no sense. Like one night, he asked me if I needed anything from the store or if he'd done the things he had to do (he never asked me stuff like that) and I was like, sure? And he said he was going to Walmart, and never came home. I remember in the old days, I used to repeatedly text him and call him over and over. My anxiety would get so high and he wouldn't answer and leave me hanging over night, with our kid. This is where things got intense for a while - we went out one night for dinner with our kid close to the new year and went around the table saying what we wanted for the new year. Our kid was 8. He said, "M." -- I was like, "M?" He wouldn't say the word marriage? Even without our kid there, he wouldn't say the word . . . I started showing him rings. But it felt pushy. He would sort of tease me about it. At this point we also started talking about having another kid. I turned 44 and it was the last year that I was willing to try for a kid. I also asked him about adoption. He wouldn't. He said he didn't want another kid and that I just had to accept that things didn't go the way that I wanted them with our daughter, but he wasn't willing to do that again or adopt. Not long after that, our daughter got really sick one night. It was super alarming and scary. He berated me for being neurotic (which he always did). I ignored him and got us to a hospital and she was admitted with severe dehydration and later, I found out, double pneumonia. She'd already been dx'd with autism. It was always one thing after another. He spent most of the time we were there going to the candy machine and asking nurses when she was going to be out, and I tried to get to the bottom of why this had happened (turns out my second house was insanely moldy). Anyway, in the hospital, I just felt this great need to get things settled. I told him, Look, I'm sure if we got married, my parents would give us a down payment for a house, we just needed to do this and help our kid. He lost it, "I AM NOT BUYING A HOUSE WITH YOU!" I had debt. But he knew this! He was the one who brought up "M" like a month before. So then what the heck were we doing? We got home and I told him he needed to help more. That he couldn't just come and go. That I had a job too. It was all so insane. Just looking back at that time. I actually soothed myself by going online on a dating site. I didn't see anyone. Didn't even talk to anyone. I think I was just in a panic and I knew my clock was ticking. And he was simply unreliable. The last conversation, I sat him down - granted he was lying in a bed and I was upright telling him that things had to change. That we both had horrible family histories but we had this kid and she needed us and it was like we'd both been addicts (not sure what I meant by that at the time) and we had to get sober. That people in his family had and that we had to. And that maybe we were brought together to heal. He said nothing. He half fell asleep. A month later, he sent me an email and said we were "toxic together" and that it was over. He started going to a gym. Growing a beard. Looking less frompy. One time he sent me a text saying he was bringing our daughter to meet his new GF and her kids. ?? A month later, our daughter was in her first grade school performance -- he wouldn't have come to something like that -- but I remember going there shocked and in tears. The day before, he told me this GF was pregnant. From that point on, I felt a mix of shock, grief, and relief. I met the woman. I actually pitied her. And I had this deep gratitude toward her in a way -- like I knew that the back and forth was finally over. For good. I experienced tremendous relief and peace around that. I was kind and gracious from the very beginning. And none of it made sense. Not my history with this person. Not how this ended. This is when I started exploring covert narcissism. And trying to understand what now appeared to be his habit of just needing to get women pregnant early? My daughter went into the hospital for a second time and when I asked him to help he threatened to take custody of her. I was overloaded. My kid lost it about her dad, this new woman, the new baby. She was so sick from mold, and now traumatized from this. I had a lot on my plate. They had their baby and a couple months later, he filed in court to reduce his child support and take more custody of our kid He was also unemployed. She was a widow and had money from her husband (he died from having drank tainted water on a military base). She and I had a few exchanges on email. I tried to tell her to be careful (stupid of me, looking back) and she was intense - she shot me an email about how I had no idea about her history and what she'd been through. And that my ex was a "fierce advocate," for our daughter and a good father. And that her mom left when she was a kid and she knew what a good parent was, or something like this. She was nasty and crazy. And I just was like -ooohhhkay. Bye.
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Post by seeking on Jan 21, 2023 1:55:30 GMT
We spent 2 years in court. I had 3 lawyers and ended up self-representing.
It was the craziest nightmare of my life.
One day, home with my daughter, child protective services knocked on my door. I was shocked. I was going to domestic violence -- another long story but he started threatening to call the police on me if I didn't send our kid to his house - our kid was losing her mind and having violent outbursts and I was doing the best I can. My therapist at the time told me to call the police just to see what they would do to lessen my anxiety. And when I did they were like "Who is this guy?" I said he wasn't even paying support and they let me know he was manipulating me and emotionally abusive. I was shocked. They gave me the # for domestic violence and they talked to me about the Power and Control wheel. -- Even as I write this, I feel so disconnected from this part of the story - like did that really happen? Was that real?
DV was so convincing and nailed down everything he was doing. My head was spinning. I started seeing a local counselor and I kept saying he never hit me? Though he threatened me. I had thrown things at him before! How could this be? She told me it was a classic move to call CPS. Everything he was doing was textbook. That the women she counseled who were going through what I did almost wished they'd been hit versus going through the psychological abuse. That was crazy to me. All of it was. All the covert narc stuff lined up and yet I couldn't believe it. It didn't sink in.
I started reading everything I could get my hands on - getting counseling, consulting, listening to podcasts, therapy. The court case was absurd. He wanted to pay no child support (it's not legal) and he tried to portray me as having Munchausen-by-Proxy and took pictures of things saying I gave my daughter "pills" (I gave her vitamin C). I knew his GF was behind a lot of this. The CCP worker admitted to me it was her who called them. The list of complaints were things like "I say my daughter has autism." It was surreal. My lawyer told me to show them my daughter neurodevelopmental paperwork and diagnoses and the CCP worker was like "Dad needs to get on board." He knew my counselor at DV. I just couldn't believe this was my life.
My ex insisted on coming with me (um, that would be normal as a father) to our next neurodevelopmental pediatric visit and she re-confirmed the diagnoses. And he later said he didn't hear her say that. She had to have a conference call with him. And he still says I make it up?
I won't go into the nightmare details of the court situation - in the end my attorney gaslit me and took basically 30k. Another attorney took me around the block and then asked me to settle. The whole thing was easily vexatious litigation-- and DV was calling it litigation abuse. But no one called it and in the end I fired the lawyers, and represented myself against a total shark-- who told me I should be a lawyer. We had mediation in the end. He got his stupid reduction in support which means I'm mostly on my own financially -- like he has a fixed amount and will not pay for extra.
I doubt I ever healed from that. Life went on, my daughter and I moved out of our house and left everything we owned behind (due to the mold), and I had her in a private school that she was thriving in and I opened my private practice. A month later, the pandemic hit. I took her out of school, closed my practice. And went on Zoom. I homeschool her now.
My ex and his GF had another baby - they now have 5 kids -- 2 are hers, 2 are theirs, and 1 is mine. No one who knows my ex has any idea how this is still possible - how they still have a relationship, he's having another kid. They are functioning or surviving. In court, his own lawyer told the court he was a trainwreck psychologically, emotionally, and financially and that he should have disability and was bipolar (which is the first I'd heard of that).
My daughter stopped talking to him for a couple months b/c he didn't call her on her birthday (or he did maybe but it was nighttime when he finally did) and didn't come to her performance - a whole list of things. He still regularly threatens me with mediation (we have to go through mediation before court) if I don't bring her to meet him.
I insisted he come to a recent performance of hers (I've pretty much 85% recovered my daughter with diet, homeopathy, a ton of therapies and other things) and when I saw the GF's son - who is my daughter age, I was stunned to see his autism. I had a suspicion. But it makes no sense to me why they would accuse me of making this up about my kid and all that they put us through.
To this day, I am cordial with all of them. I grayrock the heck out of all of them. My ex's father still comes over (he asks) to see our daughter. He's given me money here and there. He thanked me for being this way with all of this and really can't stand his own son. Even my ex's sister and mother got in touch with me! They were crazy. They send my daughter cards and gifts.
I don't know. I've moved on. I learned a lot. But I would still love to understand - even though I just wrote a novel - if anyone has read this far, what is going on. I can still get confused. Even just this past Sunday my daughter went there and held the baby and saw her half-brother and from what she described, it was like a normal sunday at a normal family's house. And I end up knowing nothing about what all this was and think, "So maybe it was me?"
I just think it would help ground me in reality and better move forward if I understand my attachment-style in this . . . his - and the mystery of how he is able to sustain a relationship (and children) with this new person.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 21, 2023 3:27:56 GMT
We can't diagnose him for you. None of the professionals you spoke to with him had a diagnosis? You just heard things all over the map, autism, bipolar, etc.? All I can say for sure is this is not just an insecure attachment style on his part. And you probably stayed because you have a history of abuse, so it felt familiar enough. That's probably why his current person stays, too. They're both full of issues, but their issues mesh easier together than yours did with him. I feel bad for their kids, and I feel bad for yours as well because you've written before about how that's been a struggle. She hasn't "won" just because she's still in a relationship and has a family with him. He's not any emotionally closer to her or more reliable or better, their dysfunction is just stickier together. That's not a bad reflection on you, it's better someone like him doesn't find you shiny and attractive to suck the energy out of!
Is it enough to understand he's probably mentally ill, but you don't need to diagnosis him? He may have one or more cluster B personality disorders, be bipolar, have cluster C disorders, but it really doesn't matter here. He's toxic as hell, and you're trying to improve yourself and your life, and the best way to do that is stay as far away from him and his fog and his gaslighting as possible. Someone mentally ill won't act abusive all the time, or no one would stay. The moments you have that make you question everything are part of the tactics of an abuser.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 21, 2023 3:32:19 GMT
Also, getting women pregnant quickly is entirely a control tactic, which also ensures they won't leave him. Having lots of kids is also appealing, especially if he is a narcissist, because all he sees is how they are props that reflect on him, make him look like a respectable family man, and who he thinks he can control since they are simply an extension of himself (assuming he wholly lacks empathy and has a cluster B personality disorder, at the very least).
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 21, 2023 7:05:29 GMT
Also, getting women pregnant quickly is entirely a control tactic, which also ensures they won't leave him. Having lots of kids is also appealing, especially if he is a narcissist, because all he sees is how they are props that reflect on him, make him look like a respectable family man, and who he thinks he can control since they are simply an extension of himself (assuming he wholly lacks empathy and has a cluster B personality disorder, at the very least). I was going to suggest narcissism….I would see ton of posts on “it’s all about him” of women who were ”rushed” into marriage/ starting a family so that he could “lock” her in. In any case, I agree with alexandra that there is more then an attachment issue going on. I also agree that his new gf is no better…her issues just mesh better with his.
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Post by seeking on Jan 21, 2023 14:30:47 GMT
We can't diagnose him for you. None of the professionals you spoke to with him had a diagnosis? You just heard things all over the map, autism, bipolar, etc.? All I can say for sure is this is not just an insecure attachment style on his part. And you probably stayed because you have a history of abuse, so it felt familiar enough. That's probably why his current person stays, too. They're both full of issues, but their issues mesh easier together than yours did with him. I feel bad for their kids, and I feel bad for yours as well because you've written before about how that's been a struggle. She hasn't "won" just because she's still in a relationship and has a family with him. He's not any emotionally closer to her or more reliable or better, their dysfunction is just stickier together. That's not a bad reflection on you, it's better someone like him doesn't find you shiny and attractive to suck the energy out of! Thanks, Alexandra. And thanks for reading my novella here! I wouldn't want anyone here to diagnose him. But this is exactly the feedback I'm looking for. Although it wasn't super long ago-- I still don't have a handle on it. I guess I'm still confused about being AP/FA - I guess I can be both. I guess that's what disorganized means - I can swing both, depending on the situation.
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Post by seeking on Jan 21, 2023 14:38:59 GMT
Is it enough to understand he's probably mentally ill, but you don't need to diagnosis him? He may have one or more cluster B personality disorders, be bipolar, have cluster C disorders, but it really doesn't matter here. He's toxic as hell, and you're trying to improve yourself and your life, and the best way to do that is stay as far away from him and his fog and his gaslighting as possible. Someone mentally ill won't act abusive all the time, or no one would stay. The moments you have that make you question everything are part of the tactics of an abuser. Yeah, again, not looking for a diagnoses at all - more was thinking attachment styles - but I guess it doesn't matter here b/c his toxic behavior sort of trumps all of it and makes it hard to know what was what. Man, I still just have such a hard time. Why is that? I talk to people who know with certainty "This person is abusive." "This person is this/that." I think it's hard for me to separate it out. I still think it was me. But the way you said him and this woman's issues fit better makes sense. It's not like they are a healthier fit. I just couldn't put up with half the stuff he was throwing. And I guess I just don't think he's doing that with her. She's financially stable and that is huge for him. I was probably of less value b/c he was largely supporting us at times. He doesn't financially support her at all. Seeing him as an abuser with tactics though. He's like this innocent, boyish usually quiet - pretty classic aspberger's type. Intelligent, fixes things, hands-on with the kids. I have zero interest in ever ever having him back or being confused about that - that's for sure. But it's almost as if I blame myself for "Bringing out the worst" in him b/c of me and my issues. But, yeah, I think that his ability to act normal is what mystifies me.
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Post by seeking on Jan 21, 2023 14:44:45 GMT
Also, getting women pregnant quickly is entirely a control tactic, which also ensures they won't leave him. Having lots of kids is also appealing, especially if he is a narcissist, because all he sees is how they are props that reflect on him, make him look like a respectable family man, and who he thinks he can control since they are simply an extension of himself (assuming he wholly lacks empathy and has a cluster B personality disorder, at the very least). Yeah, this is so weird to me. It's like he wants to keep them in a fog - I said no to another despite wanting one. She may have another still with him - they were trying for a girl which was really upsetting to my daughter. My daughter gets upset b/c she knows the boy has autism and she knows I do a lot for her and she doesn't seem them doing anything for him. Her kids lost their father. It's a mess. I don't know that he wholly lacks empathy. I guess that is what makes it confusing. Toxic definitely fits the picture, but the rest, yeah I don't know.
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Post by seeking on Jan 21, 2023 14:47:04 GMT
I was going to suggest narcissism….I would see ton of posts on “it’s all about him” of women who were ”rushed” into marriage/ starting a family so that he could “lock” her in. In any case, I agree with alexandra that there is more then an attachment issue going on. I also agree that his new gf is no better…her issues just mesh better with his. Is there a particular trait or description here that would make you think that? I'm just curious so I can wrap my brain around it a little. I'll also check out that forum. his GF was abandoned by her mom when she was a kid. I could not see him with anyone healthy, secure, etc. But she pulls it off well. She seems to have it all together, but I am not in their house and don't see what's really going on.
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Post by introvert on Jan 21, 2023 15:33:06 GMT
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Post by introvert on Jan 21, 2023 15:50:03 GMT
He made a suggestion to get pregnant, but getting pregnant is totally preventable. The issue here would be what is operating in the woman that causes her to allow a pregnancy with someone she hardly knows, or isn't in an established relationship. The man's part has little significance in my opinion, who cares?
In my case, I became pregnant unexpectedly with a poor partner because A) I believed that my fertility was impacted by a former health issue and didn't use prevention B) I didn't use prevention because I was so disconnected from my body and especially from my female health because of trauma and avoidant attachment. I did not see doctors unless emergency, I did not understand my body, I rejected my body, I had no relationship with it. I also had what could be called a trauma response of a "foreshortened future", in which my own future was cut short in my mind, I didn't believe or connect to any vision for my life, because I was shut down.
My point is, stop this crazy stuff of trying to figure him out!!! It's crazy and pointless, and it avoids really getting past the shame and confusion of how you were operating in response to him. I'm telling you this openly because I've been there a minute and it's just a huge diversion. Curious, you say? Well I've seen you writhing in a struggle about your own tangled knot inside yourself thst keeps you lonely and isolated so I encourage you to discipline your curiosity and keep trying to understand your own self. He does not matter!!!
I've learned that discovering where I WENT WRONG, was mistaken, was operating on a very wounded and unhealthy level, was selfish, careless, misguided, (insert very empathetic word for TOXIC), ETC.... is a very intense process that requires compassion and the ability to be objective (non-shaming, non excuse-making) and requires no curiosity about HIM whatsoever.
You know what he did and said, you don't need to understand why. The need to "figure him out, out of curiosity" might simply be a toxic pattern of doubting your perception because of being gaslit a lot. Solution? Go with this: He said something insane and then what did I do? I gaslit myself, manipulated myself, turned myself into knots, made it about me, denied reality, whatever. That's all that mattered. What is your relationship to yourself? You don't need a label for yourself either .. you can parse out the facts of behaviors... you can label behaviors and beliefs on your own end and those behaviors and beliefs can fit any number of diagnosis.
I think you might tend to get paralysis by analysis. Not trying to punch you, just throwing cold water on this discussion about an ex. You really don't need to get a handle on him at all. Trust me. You don't.
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Post by seeking on Jan 21, 2023 16:39:02 GMT
He made a suggestion to get pregnant, but getting pregnant is totally preventable. The issue here would be what is operating in the woman that causes her to allow a pregnancy with someone she hardly knows, or isn't in an established relationship. The man's part has little significance in my opinion, who cares? In my case, I became pregnant unexpectedly with a poor partner because A) I believed that my fertility was impacted by a former health issue and didn't use prevention B) I didn't use prevention because I was so disconnected from my body and especially from my female health because of trauma and avoidant attachment. I did not see doctors unless emergency, I did not understand my body, I rejected my body, I had no relationship with it. I also had what could be called a trauma response of a "foreshortened future", in which my own future was cut short in my mind, I didn't believe or connect to any vision for my life, because I was shut down. My point is, stop this crazy stuff of trying to figure him out!!! It's crazy and pointless, and it avoids really getting past the shame and confusion of how you were operating in response to him. I'm telling you this openly because I've been there a minute and it's just a huge diversion. Curious, you say? Well I've seen you writhing in a struggle about your own tangled knot inside yourself thst keeps you lonely and isolated so I encourage you to discipline your curiosity and keep trying to understand your own self. He does not matter!!! I've learned that discovering where I WENT WRONG, was mistaken, was operating on a very wounded and unhealthy level, was selfish, careless, misguided, (insert very empathetic word for TOXIC), ETC.... is a very intense process that requires compassion and the ability to be objective (non-shaming, non excuse-making) and requires no curiosity about HIM whatsoever. You know what he did and said, you don't need to understand why. The need to "figure him out, out of curiosity" might simply be a toxic pattern of doubting your perception because of being gaslit a lot. Solution? Go with this: He said something insane and then what did I do? I gaslit myself, manipulated myself, turned myself into knots, made it about me, denied reality, whatever. That's all that mattered. What is your relationship to yourself? You don't need a label for yourself either .. you can parse out the facts of behaviors... you can label behaviors and beliefs on your own end and those behaviors and beliefs can fit any number of diagnosis. I think you might tend to get paralysis by analysis. Not trying to punch you, just throwing cold water on this discussion about an ex. You really don't need to get a handle on him at all. Trust me. You don't. I disagree. Where I'm coming from in therapy right now, I do need to get a handle on what happened in my life. I'm coming out of a deep freeze and starting to remember more - huge pieces of iceberg are showing themselves, and my trying to understand them now feels altogether healthy to me. What you wrote does feel like a punch in the gut, in my body. Especially because of the context under which I'm trying to come at this. It's not a distraction. I'm no longer distracted. It helps me deeply to get a handle on things. If I built a house and the house fell apart and I'm here trying to build another house, I'd want to know what went wrong with the last one. Maybe not every detail if I studied up and know better now. But I don't think it's wrong to want to know. As I said I'm not looking for a diagnosis. I don't know that I even ever used that word in my post. I didn't even think he was a narc. I was looking more for "Oh you were really AP here and his behavior was FA" - and then I can look at my major relationship and see my dominant style. I already have a lot of shame around not knowing. I don't even know that I gaslight myself b/c I don't know what I know, so to speak. I'm finally trying to create enough safety to "know what I know" and let it come out. That's what I'm working on in therapy - not overriding and bypassing myself as a survival strategy. Stopping here to not override is important to me. It feels healthy. Like I'm actually taking the time to explore what went on now that I'm out of the woods. I'm not stuck with analysis. I'm moving forward in huge ways. I don't always write about that here. But even ditching the ongoing email guy - getting a total makeover of my house, my health, new clothes, new hair. There's a lot happening here. So please don't assume you know me. If this isn't a post you feel you can help with or respond to in the way I'm requesting, it's okay to leave it alone. But I appreciate the link. While I do think it's important for my healing to have some understanding of who this person was that I have a child with, and I do agree with that post that the word "narcissist" is thrown around A LOT - I still think it's valid that I want to seek an understanding here. And of course I know it takes two on the pregnancy front. I know why I did it. I take responsibility - but it's still odd to me that someone would use that as a strategy. Let me take a simple example of how this helps me. At the end of our relationship, he told me he wanted no more kids. I was in a panic b/c I did. I dearly wanted to adopt a child (or have another). I am still in great pain over this -- that I lost my chance at that. I'm still working on that pain. Rather than just say "Well that was the past, no need to understand it, just move on," it really helps me to understand what happened there. Did I really not want another kid and that's why I was willing to throw away my chance on him? I have to rectify this in myself so I can be clear and move forward. I've had a home-study as a single parent to host children. But I've stopped moving forward on that precisely because I want to understand myself. I couldn't care less about understanding him as a person. I do not need to. What I do need to understand is the type of person and dynamics I was involved in. It helps me understand my patterns, my triggers, myself, my past, my history. And I think there is great value in that and that's why I'm here. And, also, just to be clear - which I think is pretty evident from my post. I'm still dealing with him. He's not just "an ex boyfriend" I'm digging up to analyze to keep myself stuck. I got a text from him last night. We have a child together. His having more children with other people impacts my daughter and therefore me - directly. I've just come to a place, finally - like I said before - where I'm out of the woods enough (read, safe enough) to finally stop and look at this versus just surviving in constant fight or flight as a result of being in connection to him.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 21, 2023 18:29:35 GMT
seeking, the simple answer is, you are FA. FA tends to lean to a dominant side, a set of coping mechanisms that are more anxious (AP) or avoidant (DA), but the overall disorganization is there due to your background of trauma. I can't tell you if you have more than insecure attachment issues going on, though FA also comes with things like C-PTSD and ADHD correlated with it. introvert is right that the answers are more about what in your past before you met him and was already in your learned toolbox of how to react to things led you to consider having a child with a stranger. That isn't a judgement, it's just fact. She listed in her response why it happened on her side, which is then part of understanding the narrative and story and what needs to be healed in an actionable way. I do also think if your ex is different with his current partner it may have to do with money in addition to their issues pairing off in a stickier way. If he's a narcissist especially, then he has a lot more incentive to keep up the mask if she's financially supporting him. It doesn't mean he's not sneaking around continuing to do his crap behind her back, or that they're not abusing each other behind closed doors, or that it doesn't slip sometimes. But she has more value to keep draining, and money is a powerful motivator to people who want to survive and not have to work hard (some narcissists get their identity and supply from being in control of others at work, some leech it entirely off family dynamics). I say if about the narcissism again, not because I think he's emotionally healthy and fine, but because I think he has a bunch of different issues and conditions going on that may even be beyond NPD. So I just don't know, which is one of multiple reasons why it's fruitless to focus too much on him. I think it's very interesting that you told him you both were like addicts, but then you said you don't know what you meant by that. It's absolutely true though, co-dependency, love addiction, intermittent reinforcement addiction patterns. People with cluster B personality disorders tend to be addicted to validation, so act in set dynamics as well. Exploring your side of that comment with your therapist is worth doing.
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