Navigating anxious-avoidant long distance | Jeb Kinnison Attachment Type Forum

mc35
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Navigating anxious-avoidant long distance Feb 9, 2023 21:06:03 GMT via mobile

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Post by mc35 on Feb 9, 2023 21:06:03 GMT

Hi, I'm guess I'm just looking for some guidance/ reassurance as I'm new to learning about attachment types and realizing that I am anxious and my partner is fearful avoidant.

We met online in September. It started out really great, messaged all the time. It was very sexual but that was ok, we were just having fun but then started to realize we had feelings for each other as well but he would say the sex stuff was just easier for him to focus on than the feelings because he even said back then that they scared him and he runs away. About 2.5 months in he got pretty distant and kept telling me he was sorry he can't give me what I need, that he's scared, feels anxious all the time, runs away from feelings etc. I was reassuring for the whole month that it was ok, he can have space, we can take things slow. But there were moments my anxiety would be triggered when it would take him more than a day or 2 to respond to my messages and I'd text him multiple times, then delete messages, and overall just be needy. It would always end up with us agreeing to take things slow and keep trying and we'd have a good conversation, and he'd respond quickly for a couple days after then it would go back to taking a day and sometimes 2 days to reply. Then a couple weeks ago I got upset again and said I wasn't sure I could keep doing this. We agreed to take a break. We didn't talk for about a week, but I couldn't take it anymore and messaged him and said I didn't want a break anymore. He said he was feeling better, less anxious and less pressure, and we talked pretty much the entire day, even agreed that we were bf/gf (we'd never officially really talked about it before, although it was kind of assumed, like we'd talked about not talking to other ppl etc). As usual he responded to my texts the next day but has since not replied, it's been about 4 days since I last heard from him. I'm assuming the actually putting a title on our relationship maybe triggered him. I've been trying to give him space because I'm sure that's what he's needing and I know I need to take responsibility and manage my own anxiety myself and not put it on him but it's so hard. I messaged him yesterday, then sent another message saying sorry and that I'm trying to give him space but I haven't heard from him. I feel like I failed and let my anxiety get the better of me by messaging him when he hadn't even responded to my message from 4 days ago. I dont even know what my question here really is. I guess I just want to know if I'm doing the right thing by trying to be understanding and giving him space and how much space is reasonable? Will he eventually come around and permanently let me in if I just be patient for long enough and give him all the space he needs? When we do actually talk he says that he so badly wants this with me and that hes trying so hard, so I know he does, but how do I help him let it happen? His fears and anxiety about it all just seem so overpowering for him. He's very aware of it and how he feels and he says he feels so bad about how he treats me and it just snowballs and makes his anxiety worse, but he just keeps saying he's trying. It just seems like the longer this goes on the harder it gets for him, like at the bad times at the beginning it used to take a day to reply, then it became 2 days, and now it's going past 4 days. I just want to be able to help him and support him and make this easier on him because I really do think we have something. So do I just let this go and give him time and wait until he feels ready to talk to me again? We haven't even met in person yet because he said he gets so anxious and want to wait until he's ready, but when we have a good conversation he says he hopes we can meet soon and that he wants to, so I know he does, it's just hard being so patient and handling the hot and cold

Last Edit: Feb 9, 2023 21:08:41 GMT by mc35

anne12
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Navigating anxious-avoidant long distance Feb 10, 2023 9:27:00 GMT lovebunny likes this

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Post by anne12 on Feb 10, 2023 9:27:00 GMT

Ups - Why do you want to put a label on your relationship with someone you have never met in person ?
You Don’t even know if you like how he smells, or how he kisses or if he is good in bed ?
Or have you already met in person, since you have known eachother since september ?

You are only in the dating phase / the getting to know eachother phase …

Also men (the masculine) moves slow and in general it takes longer time to fully commit, while women (the feminine) moves faster and in general wants to put a label on the relationship after around 3 months

Do you want the same things ? Why are you together ?

It sounds like you need a lot of patience with this guy.
Remember as an ap you can confuse longing with love

jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1927/dating-tips-attatchment-styles-phases

Have you made a lovevision - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/49430/

do you know your dealbreakers ? If You compromise on your dealbreakers, IT Will drain your lifeenergy and IT Will close your Heart.
- jebkinnisonforum.com/post/24979/

If you rush into a relationship, Then there is a chance that it can end before it have even started.

Both ap and fa can rush into a relationship. Especially fas can suddenly freak out if things are going too fast. Sometimes you have to remind an fa to slow down, as they can forget to take things slow themselves.
Fas can end thing abruptly

Slow down…

You write that you have been in contact all day, maybe that is not such a good idea…
Fas are afraid of getting overwhelmed on the instinctive level

As an ap you have to learn to be patient with texting , reaching out, calling ect. - you can put a rubber band on your wrist and every time you want to text or call, you pull out the rubber band - and this will give you a micro shock

You can also put yellow post it notes all over you home where it says “I choose to..” - it helps you to remember that you always have a choice

You can make yourself a list of things you can do instead of reaching out that you enjoy

Because reasching out is such an automatic response for the ap, you can do it again and again, even if you have done it already and you know with your prefrontal cortex that you shouldn’t do it. Your limbic part of your brain and your reptile part of your brain takes over. As an ap Your signal cry is turned too much on.

And you can regulate your nerveussystem with an exercise called the water tank exercise ect. - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/46530/

Of course you do not want to become a doormat

You can always make a deadline in your head, for how long you will wait.

The effect of deadlines is that there will be calm in one's nervous system, because one put the desired change on the shelf for a period. Rather than fighting and forcing a change in a situation during a time, when it is not possible.
Many things must be allowed to develop and mature.

Setting a deadline means that you signal to yourself that you are true to yourself. That you do not want to put up with the situation endlessly.
Sometimes you do not have to say your deadlines out loud, because then you put an pressure on the other person.

Find out about your own involvement in that things are as they are. Then you come out of the sacrificial/victimrole and into your own Power.

- jebkinnisonforum.com/post/25523/

It is recommended to end things if a person breaks up with you more than 3 times, otherwise you can get drained and loose your self worth

Last Edit: Feb 11, 2023 1:53:27 GMT by anne12

tnr9
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Navigating anxious-avoidant long distance Feb 10, 2023 11:30:07 GMT

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Post by tnr9 on Feb 10, 2023 11:30:07 GMT

Feb 9, 2023 21:06:03 GMT mc35 said:

Hi, I'm guess I'm just looking for some guidance/ reassurance as I'm new to learning about attachment types and realizing that I am anxious and my partner is fearful avoidant.

We met online in September. It started out really great, messaged all the time. It was very sexual but that was ok, we were just having fun but then started to realize we had feelings for each other as well but he would say the sex stuff was just easier for him to focus on than the feelings because he even said back then that they scared him and he runs away. About 2.5 months in he got pretty distant and kept telling me he was sorry he can't give me what I need, that he's scared, feels anxious all the time, runs away from feelings etc. I was reassuring for the whole month that it was ok, he can have space, we can take things slow. But there were moments my anxiety would be triggered when it would take him more than a day or 2 to respond to my messages and I'd text him multiple times, then delete messages, and overall just be needy. It would always end up with us agreeing to take things slow and keep trying and we'd have a good conversation, and he'd respond quickly for a couple days after then it would go back to taking a day and sometimes 2 days to reply. Then a couple weeks ago I got upset again and said I wasn't sure I could keep doing this. We agreed to take a break. We didn't talk for about a week, but I couldn't take it anymore and messaged him and said I didn't want a break anymore. He said he was feeling better, less anxious and less pressure, and we talked pretty much the entire day, even agreed that we were bf/gf (we'd never officially really talked about it before, although it was kind of assumed, like we'd talked about not talking to other ppl etc). As usual he responded to my texts the next day but has since not replied, it's been about 4 days since I last heard from him. I'm assuming the actually putting a title on our relationship maybe triggered him. I've been trying to give him space because I'm sure that's what he's needing and I know I need to take responsibility and manage my own anxiety myself and not put it on him but it's so hard. I messaged him yesterday, then sent another message saying sorry and that I'm trying to give him space but I haven't heard from him. I feel like I failed and let my anxiety get the better of me by messaging him when he hadn't even responded to my message from 4 days ago. I dont even know what my question here really is. I guess I just want to know if I'm doing the right thing by trying to be understanding and giving him space and how much space is reasonable? Will he eventually come around and permanently let me in if I just be patient for long enough and give him all the space he needs? When we do actually talk he says that he so badly wants this with me and that hes trying so hard, so I know he does, but how do I help him let it happen? His fears and anxiety about it all just seem so overpowering for him. He's very aware of it and how he feels and he says he feels so bad about how he treats me and it just snowballs and makes his anxiety worse, but he just keeps saying he's trying. It just seems like the longer this goes on the harder it gets for him, like at the bad times at the beginning it used to take a day to reply, then it became 2 days, and now it's going past 4 days. I just want to be able to help him and support him and make this easier on him because I really do think we have something. So do I just let this go and give him time and wait until he feels ready to talk to me again? We haven't even met in person yet because he said he gets so anxious and want to wait until he's ready, but when we have a good conversation he says he hopes we can meet soon and that he wants to, so I know he does, it's just hard being so patient and handling the hot and cold

Hi and welcome to the forums. First, it is great that you recognize that you have an insecure attachment and want to work on addressing that. I highly recommend finding a therapist who can help you navigate through your insecurities as it is very challenging (although not impossible) to make these changes on your own. Secondly…what you are describing is a very familiar pattern here when 2 insecurely attached individuals try to date. I do want to reassure you that his pulling back, going distant is actually a response to internal “fears” versus a reaction to your reaching out. But his reaction to his “fears” is activating your own internal “fears” ( and vice versa) so it can look very much like you are both triggering each other. Other then addressing your insecurities, there really isn’t anything you can do to prevent his “fears” from causing him to pull away. You are probably correct that putting a label on seeing each other exclusively probably triggered his own fears and the fact that he cannot express that to you shows how deep his insecurities go. When he first expressed that he can’t give you what you want…he was actually telling you the truth. That was his way of giving you an “out” to find a more compatible partner. My brother has the same attachment style and hates conflict so rather then outright breakup….he will make statements along the same lines and pull away. I think he has provided you with enough examples of how things will go moving forward and you will need to decide whether this is what you want going forward….but long delays in responses, poor communication and a person driven by his fears and is not working on them would not be an ideal partner for anyone. 🙂

anne12
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Navigating anxious-avoidant long distance Feb 10, 2023 12:46:45 GMT

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Post by anne12 on Feb 10, 2023 12:46:45 GMT

A somatic experiencing attatchment teascher gives this example when dealing with someone who has got desorganized attatchmentstyle

The VAL method:

One of my friends has a dog called Valdemar. It has trauma and acts nerve-wracking to anyone other than my friend. Even she had to treat him carefully so as not to scare him away.
We went for a walk in the park and I pretended that Valdemar was not there, otherwise he would die of fear. At one point my friend would give me a treat I could give to the dog. I went there and held my hand as I walked, pretendend that the dog wasent there. After a while the dog came gently to me and took the treat. And I could also pat him.

I wanted to give the dog another treat and forgot to move carefully. I turned around and saw the dog into its eyes as I stretched out my hand with a treat.
The dog was getting a heart attack, so scared it became.
The dog jumped away with a kneejerk reaction.
It was too dangerous with my direct way.

This was also how it worked with my boyfriend.
Every time I reached out to him, he jumped away.
My method was to let my boyfriend come quietly to me.

My friend claimed that this method worked for most people. The method was to be there without making demands. Neither inside my head. The method was to rest in myself, just to be me.

I was curious about, what my boyfriend did without me having any projects on his behalf about what to do or not to do.
The more I practiced this method, the more it looked like love.
Wanting his best and my own best at the same time and giving freedom.

There was no sacrifice in this method and it did not require a lot of energy. It was just different from my auto pilot, that would be at the forefront of everything and have control.

My boyfriend became more attentive and he gave everything that I had longed for: closeness, enthusiasm, ease. Laughing together and having fun together.

Last Edit: Feb 10, 2023 13:00:56 GMT by anne12

mc35
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Posts: 5

Navigating anxious-avoidant long distance Feb 11, 2023 4:57:38 GMT via mobile

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Post by mc35 on Feb 11, 2023 4:57:38 GMT

Feb 10, 2023 9:27:00 GMT anne12 said:

Ups - Why do you want to put a label on your relationship with someone you have never met in person ?
You Don’t even know if you like how he smells, or how he kisses or if he is good in bed ?
Or have you already met in person, since you have known eachother since september ?

You are only in the dating phase / the getting to know eachother phase …

Also men (the masculine) moves slow and in general it takes longer time to fully commit, while women (the feminine) moves faster and in general wants to put a label on the relationship after around 3 months

Do you want the same things ? Why are you together ?

It sounds like you need a lot of patience with this guy.
Remember as an ap you can confuse longing with love

jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1927/dating-tips-attatchment-styles-phases

Have you made a lovevision - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/49430/

do you know your dealbreakers ? If You compromise on your dealbreakers, IT Will drain your lifeenergy and IT Will close your Heart.
- jebkinnisonforum.com/post/24979/

If you rush into a relationship, Then there is a chance that it can end before it have even started.

Both ap and fa can rush into a relationship. Especially fas can suddenly freak out if things are going too fast. Sometimes you have to remind an fa to slow down, as they can forget to take things slow themselves.
Fas can end thing abruptly

Slow down…

You write that you have been in contact all day, maybe that is not such a good idea…
Fas are afraid of getting overwhelmed on the instinctive level

As an ap you have to learn to be patient with texting , reaching out, calling ect. - you can put a rubber band on your wrist and every time you want to text or call, you pull out the rubber band - and this will give you a micro shock

You can also put yellow post it notes all over you home where it says “I choose to..” - it helps you to remember that you always have a choice

You can make yourself a list of things you can do instead of reaching out that you enjoy

Because reasching out is such an automatic response for the ap, you can do it again and again, even if you have done it already and you know with your prefrontal cortex that you shouldn’t do it. Your limbic part of your brain and your reptile part of your brain takes over. As an ap Your signal cry is turned too much on.

And you can regulate your nerveussystem with an exercise called the water tank exercise ect. - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/46530/

Of course you do not want to become a doormat

You can always make a deadline in your head, for how long you will wait.

The effect of deadlines is that there will be calm in one's nervous system, because one put the desired change on the shelf for a period. Rather than fighting and forcing a change in a situation during a time, when it is not possible.
Many things must be allowed to develop and mature.

Setting a deadline means that you signal to yourself that you are true to yourself. That you do not want to put up with the situation endlessly.
Sometimes you do not have to say your deadlines out loud, because then you put an pressure on the other person.

Find out about your own involvement in that things are as they are. Then you come out of the sacrificial/victimrole and into your own Power.

- jebkinnisonforum.com/post/25523/

It is recommended to end things if a person breaks up with you more than 3 times, otherwise you can get drained and loose your self worth

You're right we probably did move too fast considering we haven't met yet, but he just keeps saying he's not ready to meet yet, he's too nervous, he wants to take it slow. But I guess I wanted to label things since we had already agreed to be exclusive, it felt silly to me I guess to be exclusive to someone who couldn't commit to saying we were officially together, but maybe the label shouldn't have even mattered if he'd already said he wasn't talking to anyone else. And I only really brought it up because he had said something about barely being able to handle the gf he has so I responded with oh so am I actually your gf, so that's what lead to officially putting a label on it. I think we both just have no idea what we're doing when it comes to dating really, he hasn't dated anyone in over 5 years and I haven't dated anyone else since ending my 12 year relationship.

We do seem to want some of the same things and have things in common, but I guess what seems to draw us together is just the ease with which we talk, when we do talk that is, like we get lost in our conversations and before we know it hours have gone by, although this doesn't happen often because I know he tries to avoid it most of the time even though it feels so good when he does let it happen and he let's us connect and i know he enjoys it (in the moment at least) too. I haven't heard of the lovevision before though but sounds like something worthwhile for sure.

You have some really great suggestions for trying to control my impulses to text and reach out more than I should so thank you for your wise advice, I really do appreciate you having taken the time to respond.

He did end up responding saying I shouldn't worry about texting him, that I can text him whatever and that he likes hearing from me even if he doesn't respond or see the text for a while (my text had just been a hey, hope you're good text followed by another text apologizing for texting him because I was trying to give him space.. ugh I would have taken back sending both of those texts but my anxiety was in full swing at the time). At least he didn't seem put off by it I guess. He also said that he really appreciated me being understanding and giving him space because he does need it and that it really means a lot to him that I'm trying to do that.

I do think you're right that I should possibly put an inner time limit on this to see if he's really going to put effort in himself as well because I can already see in myself feeling like I'll do whatever he needs even at the risk of compromising my needs. But my problem is so much self doubt about whether my needs are reasonable or not. Like needing someone to text me all day everyday is obviously not reasonable but I dont know where that line should be then I guess for my own needs. Although I suppose that's where I likely need therapy to help me figure out my own boundaries.

Anyway I know I'm rambling but thank you so much for all your input and advice.

Last Edit: Feb 11, 2023 5:00:36 GMT by mc35

mc35
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Navigating anxious-avoidant long distance Feb 11, 2023 5:18:03 GMT via mobile

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Post by mc35 on Feb 11, 2023 5:18:03 GMT

Feb 10, 2023 11:30:07 GMT tnr9 said:

Hi and welcome to the forums. First, it is great that you recognize that you have an insecure attachment and want to work on addressing that. I highly recommend finding a therapist who can help you navigate through your insecurities as it is very challenging (although not impossible) to make these changes on your own. Secondly…what you are describing is a very familiar pattern here when 2 insecurely attached individuals try to date. I do want to reassure you that his pulling back, going distant is actually a response to internal “fears” versus a reaction to your reaching out. But his reaction to his “fears” is activating your own internal “fears” ( and vice versa) so it can look very much like you are both triggering each other. Other then addressing your insecurities, there really isn’t anything you can do to prevent his “fears” from causing him to pull away. You are probably correct that putting a label on seeing each other exclusively probably triggered his own fears and the fact that he cannot express that to you shows how deep his insecurities go. When he first expressed that he can’t give you what you want…he was actually telling you the truth. That was his way of giving you an “out” to find a more compatible partner. My brother has the same attachment style and hates conflict so rather then outright breakup….he will make statements along the same lines and pull away. I think he has provided you with enough examples of how things will go moving forward and you will need to decide whether this is what you want going forward….but long delays in responses, poor communication and a person driven by his fears and is not working on them would not be an ideal partner for anyone. 🙂

Thank you for your reply! You're so right that he was trying to give me an out. I've done the same thing back to him so many times too lol, but each time he re-confirms that he wants this so much, that he wishes I could see how hard he's trying, that he hasn't wanted anyone this much in years etc. I do believe he is trying to work on himself, he has said that he is, he is very self aware of everything he feels and has actually been very good at expressing exactly what is going on with him in terms of the anxiety he feels, his fears, his needs for space, like I've never actually experienced a guy so intune with and able to communicate their emotions. Partly whats drawn me to him. Not sure any of it is helping him get a handle on it but I don't know. When he communicates he's very good at it, it's just the deeper it gets the more space he seems to be needing in between and it makes me think that if the pattern continues (going deeper, then needing even more space) eventually he'll need so much space that any kind of relationship will be unsustainable. I'm maybe clinging to this with blind hope based on the occasional times we really connect and it's amazing, like those moments keep bringing me back in. I just do think there's something there, whether he'll allow it to really be something I guess that's another story and you're right that I will need to decide if its what I want going forward. Thank you taking the time to give me your thoughts and advice! I do think finding a therapist to help me with my own insecurities and struggles is a smart idea

Last Edit: Feb 11, 2023 5:22:45 GMT by mc35

anne12
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Navigating anxious-avoidant long distance Feb 11, 2023 8:52:18 GMT

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Post by anne12 on Feb 11, 2023 8:52:18 GMT

jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1072/healing-anxious-ambivalent-attatchment-tricks

Maybe you are not as accesible as you think you are
Maybe you yourself is scared of love ?
Aps can have difficulty recieving

Why do you want an internet relationship ?

Talk is easy…

Try to read about the triangular theory of love - Robert Sternberg - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/31081/
It consists of intimacy/friendship, passion and commitment

You can ask the guy you are seeing to also make a love vision and then you can share your love visions

Last Edit: Feb 11, 2023 14:52:00 GMT by anne12

mc35
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Navigating anxious-avoidant long distance Feb 11, 2023 15:13:44 GMT via mobile alexandra likes this

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Post by mc35 on Feb 11, 2023 15:13:44 GMT

Anne12 you're right, an internet relationship does feel more comfortable to me, I never thought of myself as emotionally inaccessible, but maybe I am too. I probably am scared too and didn't realize it, I do know I'm terrified of rejection. I think that's what holds me back from actually dating like with dating apps etc. He happened naturally, without really the intention of it turning into anything. The idea of really looking for someone and possibly not finding it or being rejected at times in the process is very scary.