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Post by lovebunny on May 15, 2023 12:21:04 GMT
"He didn't like safe words, didn't want to negotiate scenes and if I was too into something got upset and said it was disgusting and a turn off."
Wow, usernametaken, that sounds very damaging.
I've often wished there was a safe place to talk about this stuff. Fetlife isn't about the dark side of kink, when it goes wrong or is done with the wrong people, and there doesn't seem to be support groups or anything for D/s breakups, and maybe there should be. It adds an extra layer of ouch to lose that parental/authority figure, even if they weren't actually good doms.
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Post by usernametaken on May 15, 2023 15:46:22 GMT
Yes. There really needs to be a space for that. There is a huge amount of stigma and misunderstanding around it. I was lucky to have a great understanding counsellor and we talked about it as I experienced it. From her perspective a huge amount of kink is driven from a place of trauma and I can't disagree with that from my experiences.
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Post by anne12 on May 16, 2023 12:05:41 GMT
Some posts about sex and the nerveussystem, attatchment styles ect. jebkinnisonforum.com/post/37326/ - desorganized attatchmentstyle and sex …..”Pain can be a way to relive past traumas. One may have a tendency to maintain the high nervous system arousel when having extreme sex. If the tension goes down, they may believe, that they are dying on the instinctive level. Sex with a secure person can feel boring. Shame vs. shamelessness Sex can be grounded with shame. Some are ashamed of their body. Also if you had been sexually abused. Or some may be shameless. You are acting shameless to yourself if you are being promiscues. Because of their unregulated nerveussystem, sex often has to be more exstreme before they can feel anything. Sex can also be a way to discharge ans.….” jebkinnisonforum.com/post/43481/ - Attachment, sexuality and trauma jebkinnisonforum.com/post/40447/ - the rigid caracter structure jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/3376/women-sexuality-blueprint |
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Post by lovebunny on May 16, 2023 12:23:06 GMT
From her perspective a huge amount of kink is driven from a place of trauma and I can't disagree with that from my experiences. I have noodled on this one a lot. I was never molested or raped. Nonetheless, I'm a female, and from a young age have had messages about sex and violence lobbed at me in amounts that sometimes feels like a collective trauma. There was, however, an incident at science camp in the 8th grade where a counselor was being....I don't know the right word, flirtatious? Overly attentive? To me. One of my classmates noticed and brought it up to another counselor's attention, and the guy was told to stay away from me. It was embarrassing and confusing, but I wasn't molested. Also, I was left alone a lot, and was an avid reader. When I was about 14 I found a couple of books on my parents' shelf, namely Story of O and Justine, and read them. Sex, violence, submission filled my head, and of course my young body responded to it with arousal. I sometimes feel like my submissiveness is a way of hijacking my "fawn" response whenever someone comes at me sexually. Because I struggle to say NO. Over the years, I have learned to try not to put myself in situations where I'm alone with someone who might try to have at me if I don't want them, because I know I might not be able to fend it off. I go into fawning. This is why kink r'ships feel so freeing for me. Things are discussed up front, it's not just like I'm on a date and then someone is trying to put their tongue in my mouth. Consent comes before action. So when I'm subbing, I don't have to say no. I have already negotiated what can and cannot happen, I can just relax and be in my body. Does that make sense? |
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Post by anne12 on May 16, 2023 12:38:39 GMT
There is a post somewhere in My threads about what can happen if one has got too much sympathetic charge and the other person has more parasympathetic charge when having sex - sometimes the difference can become too overwhelming
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Post by lovebunny on May 16, 2023 12:48:01 GMT
@dearlover
"Me - Hi (insert name) I feel utter confused, would you care to enlighten me?
Him - Huh? By What?
Me - Never mind
Him - I speak woman fluently enough to know that 'never mind' does not actually mean never mind. Please say what is in your mind
Me - Did I make you angry?
Him - Not at all
I then gave a thumbs up reaction on his last message and left at that."
Why such unclear, passive communication? Why didn't you just ask him directly whatever you want to ask, or tell him what you want to tell him? "Hey you, I thought we were on the same page about this, but I'm realizing I'm not getting what I want out of this arrangement." Or, "Hey, I'm confused. So what exactly IS our arrangement?" Or "Are you interested in seeing me again?" Or whatever.
You're letting him be vague by being vague yourself.
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Post by introvert on May 16, 2023 15:01:54 GMT
@dearlover "Me - Hi (insert name) I feel utter confused, would you care to enlighten me? Him - Huh? By What? Me - Never mind Him - I speak woman fluently enough to know that 'never mind' does not actually mean never mind. Please say what is in your mind Me - Did I make you angry? Him - Not at all I then gave a thumbs up reaction on his last message and left at that." Why such unclear, passive communication? Why didn't you just ask him directly whatever you want to ask, or tell him what you want to tell him? "Hey you, I thought we were on the same page about this, but I'm realizing I'm not getting what I want out of this arrangement." Or, "Hey, I'm confused. So what exactly IS our arrangement?" Or "Are you interested in seeing me again?" Or whatever. You're letting him be vague by being vague yourself. Yes. It just felt humilliating. At the beggining he was very present and on it. Between date 2 when he travelled and date 3 when we had sex, he totally changed. When a man is interested a woman will know. And he bloody well knows how interested I was. He has other options, not monogamous. And he likes to take the lead too. So me asking him about our arrangement was scary and I’d be opening myself up to be rejected more severely I guess. I asked if he is angry because I made a joke that cut through his ego even though it was not my intention, it was a joke... He didn’t laugh so I guess he did get upset somehow (along with the bratty behaviour). After my joke he decide to send me home, just like that! We are close in age, he is 4 years older. He is the kind of man who actively seeks younger women half his age so he can impress, dominate, control. (but then he complains they are immature and have no depth - big eye roll). So pressing on with the relationship talk just see ed unnecessary and needy. I doubled messaged too because as I usually do, after I left, I texted him to thank him for the money and his company and apologised for the joke but this time no reply or reaction. Then 3 days later reached out again with the convo above. Yeah, I know I was vague and should have been more assertive but communication flowed wonderfully when he was interested. There was an opening for him to ask me more or show intentions if he had any. This was your third encounter. So you knew him a total of hours right? Does kink actually work like this, where you meet a total stranger and assume that they are safe and genuine and good relationship material almost immediately based on a sexual contract which involves not earned trust, respect and consistency but sex, money, and fantasy? Or is it AP thinking that got this wrong right out of the gate? This is a total stranger and your behavior seems dangerous for your own well being. I don't understand kink and I'm not truly interested in it but what I'm reading here is really concerning from a safety/insecure relating standpoint. |
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Post by anne12 on May 16, 2023 15:25:11 GMT
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Post by usernametaken on May 16, 2023 18:00:22 GMT
introvert most kinksters are big on consent and communication. A good Dom is going to negotiate limits before the scene (the session), so the sub is going to have some idea of what is going to happen, unless they both agree to not do that. There are also going to be safe words and if one is uttered it's respected immediately without blow back. Unfortunately it sounds like this was a bad Dom. The kink scene is full of men who just want to dominate women but don't understand the respect that is supposed to go behind that. I've been told before that safe words are stupid or they just want to be "spontaneous", but you can be so while also communicating. But I agree there are also a lot of insecure dynamics at play here. @dearlover your posts paint a picture of you being in a power struggle with him. Witholding because you don't want to give him information, mind reading, guessing and making assumptions about his intent instead of coming out and saying it. I see you understand on some level you are doing this to protect yourself but I don't think it's helping things here. I'm also very confused about your intent here. You sound romantically interested and attached to outcomes yet keep saying you liked this no strings attached arrangement.
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Post by usernametaken on May 16, 2023 18:41:54 GMT
It isn't causing drama to say "hey you seemed mad when I did x, we okay?" Or "things ended really abruptly last time, could we chat about it so things to smoother next time"
I can see how it would be confusing if he was being very charming and communicative, and then dropped off, but to me he seems to be behaving exactly in line with his stated intentions and you have no clue what he is thinking or feeling about the whole thing.
Also, not saying you have to be okay with a dynamic like this. Just seems unfair to say if a man is interested he would do x or would be expressing care. Because his interest seems to be putting you in a box and taking you out when needed and commensatinf you for the right to do that.
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Post by lovebunny on May 16, 2023 19:16:09 GMT
"What he gets out of it a part from the sex and company is to be left alone and have the dates and meets on his terms in the sense of when he has time and energy. He is an extremely busy man with lots of his plate and he does not want or need a partner to nag, ask for emotional support when he can't give or create drama."
Jeez, this sounds like my worst nightmare, I'd be an anxious mess. How do you keep from waiting around for him to decide he wants you? And no emotional support??? Aftercare is EXTREMELY important to D/s sex, and subcrash can happen days after the actual sex. You aren't allowed to ask for a call or text if you're feeling off?
Now, I should probably NOT give advice, because my current kink partner is poly/married, lives hours away, and is not available for the life-partnership I'm seeking. However, he is also consistent, respectful, communicative, keeps his word, and offers emotional support where he can. He was a very soothing presence during my recent breakup. I feel I've contributed to our success by being honest, by asking for clarification where needed, and by stating what I want outright, no games.
"Any good man would probe the woman he cares about to talk more if she seems troubled or express confusion. Or maybe they wouldn't and a simple answer like mine would suffice for them. But any interested man would continue pursuing the woman if he wanted her."
He isn't offering this. You aren't "the woman he cares about," I don't see anything in what you've written that says that was the arrangement. What he IS offering, you do not want. He's offering to booty call you once in a while, maybe take you out, and cash, while your job is to ask for nothing more.
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Post by usernametaken on May 16, 2023 20:41:15 GMT
My run in with Mr. Situationship sounds a bit similar to what you are experiencing. We had agreed on casual because he didn't live here but it meant different things to both of us.
He initially was very charming and engaged but after the first few dates ended up disappearing. Then he would pop up out of no where to take me on expensive dates.
It took a long time to get my head about this and what he was able to offer vs what I actually wanted / needed. It caused me A LOT of pain because he kept coming back and I thought it must mean something, there must be more to it, we could build something out of it.
To some degree even he seemed to struggled with what he said he wanted.
He constantly would ask who else I was dating and then get jealous. He was super insecure and needed constant reassurance that I liked him and wanted to see him again etc. I took his jealousy as a sign he wanted more but broaching that got me no where.
I look at it now kinda like some of my friendships. There are some of my friends I see once in a blue moon and we have a blast but we don't really chat in between nor would they be the ones I go to for emotional support. It's just hard when sex and attachment gets involved. It was I'm sleeping with you so you must give me emotional support in return.
Not to say to continue in dynamics that aren't working for you, but time has given me a perspective that would have been super helpful back then.
We ultimately parted ways because he did some disrespectful things, was a bad communicator and there were fundamental boundary issues around my safety but I can see how I contributed to our violitile dynamic.
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Post by usernametaken on May 16, 2023 22:28:47 GMT
My run in with Mr. Situationship sounds a bit similar to what you are experiencing. We had agreed on casual because he didn't live here but it meant different things to both of us. He initially was very charming and engaged but after the first few dates ended up disappearing. Then he would pop up out of no where to take me on expensive dates. It took a long time to get my head about this and what he was able to offer vs what I actually wanted / needed. It caused me A LOT of pain because he kept coming back and I thought it must mean something, there must be more to it, we could build something out of it. To some degree even he seemed to struggled with what he said he wanted. He constantly would ask who else I was dating and then get jealous. He was super insecure and needed constant reassurance that I liked him and wanted to see him again etc. I took his jealousy as a sign he wanted more but broaching that got me no where. I look at it now kinda like some of my friendships. There are some of my friends I see once in a blue moon and we have a blast but we don't really chat in between nor would they be the ones I go to for emotional support. It's just hard when sex and attachment gets involved. It was I'm sleeping with you so you must give me emotional support in return. Not to say to continue in dynamics that aren't working for you, but time has given me a perspective that would have been super helpful back then. We ultimately parted ways because he did some disrespectful things, was a bad communicator and there were fundamental boundary issues around my safety but I can see how I contributed to our violitile dynamic. Are they the same person? In my case Mr Bad Dom is supposed to be a master communicator and he is in many other aspects. I assumed he would do all the heavy lifting around communicating about us and also guide me / teach me how to get skilled at it too. I am really attracted to men who takes the lead and he is also supposed to be a good leader, he actually is at work, so I basically laid back and went with the flow. Obviously when it comes to sex and romantic relationships most of us are usually stuck on a much lower level of maturity and frozen in trauma. Find the right person to trigger you and that is it. I know I trigger him and I found the right buttons to push and pushed it. In a way it is a good way of finding out who the person really is / how they react quickly. I don't think he will come back tough. He has access to younger, more impressionable women who need the money more than I do and will comply, please, chase, fake it and look up to him as if he is on a pedestal. I have the exact measure of adoring and admiring while at the same time seeing through his BS. Not the same person, both FAs but at different ends of it. I would say Mr. Situationship was mostly an okay person. He just couldn't communicate anything he thought I would dislike but did try to tell me in a round about way and me fully in my AP just didn't listen or set appropriate boundaries. Mr Bad Dom was actually Mr. AP who I wrote about in length, and who was really violitile. He may not have realized it but his only way of operating was manipulations and power plays. He enjoyed breaking people's boundaries and took no as either a challenge or a rejection no matter how it was worded. |
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Post by alexandra on May 17, 2023 0:31:53 GMT
In the future, while I appreciate you're afraid of rejection, you need to just ask. You assumed you'd be group 1 based on his posts from months ago before he even knew you existed, but you two didn't discuss expectations besides the on-paper transactional piece. If he was that burned out by his last group 1 encounter, there's no reason to assume he's ready to jump back in emotionally, especially when he's still looking for something of a transactional nature. Nothing would indicate that besides him directly telling you it himself, which he did not. Reading old posts, even if he told you to read them, clarifies nothing. If he expected his old posts to do heavy lifting so he didn't need to be direct in communication with you, then he's a bad communicator.
You're right that it's not worth worrying about at this point because you are incompatible together anyway and you learned more about what you want. But you can't do any mind reading or assuming at all here, because it leads to further miscommunication and unmet expectations and hurt feelings. I also wouldn't assume he was hurtful on purpose to you, unless assuming that makes it easier for you to move on. I think the truth is actually he's looking to protect himself and is a bad communicator, so things played out this way with no malicious intent on either side, though also without the skills needed for this type of arrangement not to turn out to be painful. Nothing needs to be this complicated this early though, so find yourself something better for you in the future.
You'll be okay!
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Post by mrob on May 17, 2023 0:50:10 GMT
My experience is that the whole D/s dynamic can be a thin veil for reinforcing trauma. Not always, but can be. I made a decision that I would never knowingly inflict trauma on someone again, including myself.
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