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Post by bacardi on Nov 25, 2023 3:22:50 GMT
Hi everyone (sorry this is long, I've tried to cut it down a bit).
So I was with an avoidant for 3 years, living togther for just over 2 of those, and he would ignore me deliberately (to create distance). He would take days to reply to my texts, especially after we had had a nice time together such as a weekend away, or a moment of connection and closeness.
I used to be mostly secure with anxious leanings before I met him (I never double text etc. but I just feel the anxious feelings and get stressed out).
But he left me with huge scars and a terrible fear of texting. It got so bad that after being together for a few months, I would refuse to text him first, and I wouldn't ask him any questions. If he didn't text me we simply wouldn't talk at all. I would reply to his texts but keep it short and leave the conversation as soon as I could.
If I really needed information from him (about plans etc.) I would ring him instead, because I was terrifed of texting him.
People who knew us as a couple would ask me to ask him things, and I would refuse and tell them to ask him themselves.
I have met a few men since we split up, and they always complain and ask why I hardly text them, and why they always have to text me first. I've let a few potential relationships die because they didn't text me back, so I just never got in touch with them again.
But recently I met a lovely man who texts me non stop. I think he is anxious too, he doesn't like big gaps between replies, and sometimes he even rings me if I don't reply quick enough.
We've talked about my fear of texting, and I explained about my ex. He was patient at first, but now he says I am comparing him to my ex, and living in the past. Sometimes I wonder if he is right, but when I feel scared to text back, I'm not consciously thinking of my ex.
He likes chatting by text when he has free time in the evenings, he replies within a couple of minutes. It was strange for me at first, but I was starting to relax and trust him, because I was getting used to it. He replied late a couple of times, once due to work and once because he fell asleep. He apologised and we discussed strategies, so now we just text each other a kiss if we are really busy, which works quite well. He said I could ring him anytime if I was worried.
But then about a week ago, he said he wanted to chat with me, so I rushed to finish my housework, and texted him back. He didn't reply for 2 hours, so I started getting stressed (if he hadn't specifically said he wanted to chat, I wouldn't have worried). Then he texted, so I texted him back 20 mins later (I had started doing housework again). Then he didn't text back for over an hour, so the stress was getting worse.
So remembering what he had said, I rang him to see what was happening, he said he took 2 hours to reply because he fell asleep, then woke up and texted me, then he feel asleep again and that's why it was over an hour since I replied to him. We were both tired, and I was stressed, so we ended up arguing, which made my anxiety go through the roof.
We discussed it again on the phone the next day and agreed to only text through the day, and not to not text in the evenings, as he doesn't sleep enough and said he couldn't guarantee he won't fall asleep whilst texting again. I said we could talk on the phone instead.
So he did ring me in the evenings, but then he still wanted to text as well, every evening on the phone he would ask me to text him afterwards, even though I didn't want to. I'm starting to feel a bit swamped too, because now on top of texting me non stop, he is on the phone to me for 2 hours, it's hard to get jobs done around the house or chat to friends etc.
I think he is missing us chatting over text, and I am too, I miss that I was starting to relax with the texting and now it feels like I've taken several steps back. But now I'd rather not speak to him at all, than have to wait for a reply.
I miss getting texts from him, I want him to text me, I just don't want to have to text him and then anxiously wait for the reply. I know that sounds unfair.
I keep trying to come up with a practical solution, but I can't get over the fear of one of my texts going unanswered - I know I wouldn't be able to sleep until I heard from him again. I know it doesn't make sense either, because he texts me good morning every day, so it would never go for days like my ex.
Has anyone else managed to come up with a solution for this? How did you handle it?
Did you manage to overcome the fear of an unanswered text, or did you just stop texting and stick to phonecalls instead?
I don't want to damage this relationship and I'm trying to be brave, but sometimes the fear of texting feels paralysing, I'm not sure how to handle it.
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Post by cherrycola on Nov 25, 2023 4:02:02 GMT
The best solution is going to be working with a professional.
But if that isn't an option you need to confront the fear under texting. The fear of the lack of reply. What is the worse that is going to happen to you if he doesn't reply? You won't die. This is really about the stories you are telling yourself around what the texting "means".
You are trying to be "safe" by constantly monitoring for signs that you are about to be abandoned. But someone can abandon us at any point without signs. That's one thing I keep in mind when I get anxious about texting. I remind myself of all the other ways this person has showed me they loved me. You can also list of all the alternatives for why they aren't replying to you. Fell asleep, phone died, with friends. Etc etc.
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Post by sunrisequest on Nov 25, 2023 8:41:07 GMT
I think Username is right in saying that in order to deal with this properly, you're going to need to do some work on your own attachment wounds with a professional... it's so tough when your nervous system is giving you false signals that you're about to be abandoned when there isn't any real evidence of it... and although you've got enough sense to not act on those feelings most of the time, it's still enough to create a lot of distress for you and it's great that you're looking at how you can interrupt this pattern.
Working through it with a professional is a long-game, but in the meantime, it might help to have a go at doing some nervous system regulation - get into nature, do some breathwork or meditation. Another thing you could try is journalling the whole thought process from start to finish, and identify exactly what it is you're fearing... and write some positive affirmations around it that you can repeat to yourself. I.e. 'when I don't hear straight back from my partner, I am worried that means he is thinking XXX... I know that's very unlikely to be true, but even if it is true, I know that I will be okay, I am safe.' That kind of thing.
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Post by bacardi on Nov 27, 2023 0:31:14 GMT
Thanks to both of you for your kind words.
He split up with me today over text.
Last night I was going out clubbing with friends, and he was staying in (we are long distance, he is about 2 hours train journey away, neither of us drives). I can tell he isn't really comfortable with me going out, due to things he says, but I try to reassure him if he gets nervous.
Thn he said he would be going out with some of his friends, so I told him to have a nice time. Then he said he was going out clubbing too, and not to worry if he didn't text me that night. I replied again and told him to have a nice time.
I have been overthinking a lot this week, after we argued last sunday (I always feel awful after arguing, even after making up), because I wanted to only have a 30 min phonecall each night after work instead of texting. But as above he persuaded me to text after each phonecall, despite me being uncomfortable with it. I got very anxious each night waiting for his replies.
It is also that time of the month, work is very stressful (I have moved teams and am doing overtime until about 8:30pm weekdays) and I am in the middle of moving house.
He has a very stressful job and works long hours, often starting work at 6am and finishing work at 9 or 10pm. He suffers stomach polyps that flare up sometimes and can make him very ill.
We have been seeing each other every 2 weeks due to the distance and that he sometimes has to work weekends. So last weekend we were together, and had a lovely time, we always do in person. We argued after getting home, as mentioned above.
The weekend before that we both went out (in our separate cities), he texted a couple of times though the night, and then when he got home, he texted me a sweet message about how much he was missing me.
So last night I was hoping he might text during the night and when he got back (sometimes if he warns me he might not be able to text, he does text anyway). I sent the second text I mentioned above where I told him to have a nice time (for the second time), at around 11pm.
I heard nothing else, but every other time he has been out with friends, or with me, he has got tired around 2am and gone home (I stay out until around 4am when we are apart, as that is the closing time at my local club). So I got home around 3am, and was hoping he might text when he got home.
I started to worry and couldn't sleep. Then he texted me some kisses at 7am, so I sent some back. This is our system for when we can't text each other properly, such as if we are at work etc. if it gets to a gap of around 5 hours we send kisses to let each other know we are thinking of each other, it has been working quite well.
So I was trying to sleep, but then I started wondering why he couldn't text in words (he normally sends a good morning text, as he gets up early even on his days off). I knew he wouldn't be working, so then I started to worry that maybe he got hurt on his night out and was in the hospital, or his stomach polyps were playing up (last time that happened he was in hospital with it). I'm not proud of this but I did also have a small worry he might have cheated on me.
He has said before a few times that I can ring or text him anytime and he would be kind to me (because I have told him about my fear of texting, caused by my ex ignoring me for days on end).
So I rang him, he didn't pick up, so I sent a text asking him to ring me back because I was worried about him.
He rang back around 30 mins later and said he was in the shower when I rang. I asked what was happening, he said he was out clubbing with his friend until 6am, then they went for breakfast and got home about 7am. I explained I had been worried whether or not he was ok because he sent kisses rather than words, and because he hadn't texted before that.
He said I didn't text him until 3am, so we sent each other screenshots, I sent it at 11pm, but he didn't receive it until 3am, so he must not have had reception, we were both okay about it because these things do happen in bars and clubs. He was texting and being nice at that point, he said it was funny because we were both right, I agreed. I was starting to relax again.
He said he just goes home when he is tired and he could easily stay out with me until 4-6am, but hadn't previously because of being tired on those days. I understand that.
Then he said he doesn't think negative things when he doesn't hear from me (which I don't think is true, based on his past reactions, just last week he was angry one day because I was at work and didn't reply for 4 hours). He said he knows I have a life outside of him and he accepts it. So that made my alarm bells go off because I knew he was angry/upset with me then, because he was being passive aggressive by insinuating that I think negatively about him and that I don't respect he has a life outside us.
Each time we have argued, we talk and discuss things to make up. I try to use the 'I statements' without blame, and I am trying to use direct communication, telling him what worries me, and trying to come up with solutions to avoid me or him being triggered. I try to be as fair as possible, I accept my share of the blame, apologise when I upset him, and ask his thoughts. I am trying to use what I have learned from trying to heal my anxious attachment.
But I don't think he is aware of attachment theory or aware that he is anxiously attached. So he normally gets a bit defensive, passive aggressive, says "You are always right, it's all my fault, I will do better". I tell him it is both of our fault not just him, and ask him what he would like me to try and change in terms of my behaviour.
He then says everything is fine, and there is no problem between us, and says we have resolved things. So at first I would take him at his word, and sleep soundly thinking we had fixed things. But then he would start texting passive aggressive insults the next day, so I realised that he lies about being ok, when actually he is still upset/angry. This has happened a couple of times previously.
So I told him I felt sad because it felt as though he was angry with me for being worried.
He said he had forgotten our past arguments and everything was fine, but he also said "Please don't do that, I am not angry with you, I am not that kind of man, why do you always get scared and think I am angry when there is no reason".
I explained that his text (about me not respecting him having a life outside us) made me think he was angry, and that I was trying to get used to things changing between us (meaning the texting), but I suggested we both sleep.
He said he didn't want to say something he would regret, that he didn't know what changed between us, and that we would talk about it later, because he wanted to sleep. So I was worrying more.
I rang him because I wanted to hear his voice for 5 mins to make sure he was ok, and that we could both sleep without worrying. He didn't pick up, and texted me instead saying he wanted to talk later instead.
I told him I was worried and that I only wanted to hear his voice for 5 mins to make sure he wasn't angry, not a long conversation. I told him he had said he would always be kind if I rang him, and I said that is not true if he won't pick up the phone (this is another trigger for me because my avoidant ex wouldn't pick up the phone when I rang him).
He said we would argue if we kept texting and he wanted to sleep. I was triggered and upset by then and I said that I can't sleep when I am upset, that I won't ring him again even if I need help, because it doesn't feel safe anymore, and that he could have reassured me in 5 mins and we could have been asleep by now. It was an angry text and I regret it.
We have discussed before how differently we handle conflict - he wants a break to calm down first, and I want to fix things straight away (my avoidant ex would drag arguments out for hours by stonewalling me). So I find it very difficult to wait for hours to make up, but I was willing to try.
We had agreed a solution where we would text each other to explain that we were worried, and then agree to discuss it later. But I had said this only works for me if he tells me we are ok first, because he often says things are 'not normal' or 'a disaster' or something before telling me he wants to talk later, it's like he's dropping a bomb on me and leaving. When we argued last week he told me I'd ruined our lovely weekend together (I was heartbroken when he said that), then told me he wanted to talk the next day instead.
He lost his temper and sent me an angry sarcastic text saying congratulations.
I said "I only wanted 5 mins of kindness and you said no".
Then he sent 10 angry sarcastic texts in a row saying that I thought he wasn't kind, that he didn't want to say something wrong and see me sad, that he was tired, that I thought he was angry with him for small things all the time, what is next and that he wasn't that kind of man.
I said I was tired too because I had been up all night worrying, that I had just wanted to talk for 5 mins, and that the angry and sarcastic texts were making me sad.
I said he is the kind of man who would not talk to me for 5 mins on the phone, because that is what just happened. He started angrily putting hearts on the texts I sent that had annoyed him.
He said he wouldn't speak to me and that was enough.
I said I was stopping becase it felt like he didn't care that I was sad, that I hadn't wanted to argue and that I had only wanted to talk for 5 mins (I know I should have dropped it, looking back, but I was fully triggered).
He sent an angry sarcastic text saying 'wow what a nice thought' that he didn't care that I was sad, and enough is enough.
I was really scared and upset at how quickly things had gotten out of hand, so I asked if we could please make up, and said that I was sorry and didn't want to argue.
He sent 4 angry texts saying I ruined everything with my words (he quoted the text when I said he is the type of man who would not talk on the phone with me for 5 mins), that he would not answer anymore, that I said he was a bad man, and don't ring him.
I said "no please", he said "enough please", and I said "please" again (I was asking to make up).
He sent 5 angry texts saying he wanted to sleep, saying "thanks for your nice and kind words (he was being sarcastic)", saying I can't say (he is the type of man who would not talk on the phone with me for 5 mins), that he was turning his phone off, and that he would sleep.
I said please, and sorry, and that he knows I care about him and I know he is a good man. I said I really care about him and hope he would realise that once he had slept.
He sent an angry text saying enough, he was tired, and he knows nothing.
I told him he was special to me and I care about him so much. I told him I just want to cuddle and kiss him, that he is a wonderful man, and we are both tired and said things we didn't mean. I said I miss him and just wanted to hug him.
He sent 7 angry messages saying he told me we would chat later, that he had sent nice messages (I didn't think any of them were that nice), that he had told me 2 or 3 times, that he was tired with me thinking that, that he was tired of negative things, that he was tired of his 'stupid life' (referring to his work), that he had enough problems and didn't need more, and that he had told me all this.
I said I was tired too and I had just wanted to talk for 5 mins because we can misunderstand texts, and that I thought he was angry but he said he wasn't, so I had wanted to check before sleeping. I said we were almost made up at that point and I had just wanted to check we were ok. I said I was sorry for the texts I sent after that. I said please rest and he doesn't have to keep reading, and he could read the text when he woke up.
He angrily quoted the text where he said nothing was wrong.
I told him he was a good man and I know it, and he has so many good qualities, so I listed them, such as being kind, sweet etc. I told him he makes me laugh when we are together and I love kissing and cudding him (he normally loves kissing and cuddling too). I said I cared about him and wanted to make him happy.
He sent an angry text saying he was fed up with arguing.
I told him I was worried he was hurt, that I was sorry for stressing him out because I didn't mean to, and that I mised him and wished he was here so we could cuddle and fix things.
He angrily quoted the text (when I said he is the type of man who would not talk on the phone with me for 5 mins) and said I didn't need to write anything else after that.
I said it was hard for us both missing each other.
He sent 4 angry texts, 2 saying he would sleep.
The last 2 were "You can continue to write other stupid things to me" and "Congratulations for ruining everything". I was shocked at the harsh tone of these and gave up, I haven't replied or tried to ring (partly because I am paralysed with fear, and partly because if he has dumped me, I don't see the point).
So I assume the last 2 texts were him dumping me. He sent those at 9:35am and it is now 11:50pm (edited to add it is now 00:45am and still nothing). We have never, ever gone this long without talking in the 2 months we have been together.
I have been triggered all day, obviously us splitting up was my worst fear, especially after he threatened it before during arguments. I have been crying all day.
I have to clean the old house because I am moving (I still live there currently) and the landlord (who I don't get on with as I find him sexist and patronising) is inspecting it tomorrow. It was agony, I cleaned for 4 hours and sobbed the whole time. I put my boyfriend's things in a bag to give back to him (if they were gifts I would have kept them, but they are things he bought for us to share, that he wanted to keep at my house for when he stays over).
The really ironic thing is that we have struggled with being long distance - we miss each other, and argue about texting (sometimes I am worried, sometimes he is worried (he accused me of ignoring him once because it took me 6 minutes to reply)). Phonecalls tend to go better except when we are arguing because we say things in the heat of the moment, with texting we are more careful what we type.
He is also not from my country, so there is a language barrier too, which leads to misunderstandings (he does speak english but doesn't understand certain phrases etc., and I can't understand what he is trying to say sometimes the way he phrases things).
But in person we get on amazingly well and are very happy. We are very physically affectionate and he gazes into my eyes a lot, he loves my eyes and says they are beautiful.
When we first met he had asked his boss if he could work more in my city (he travels a lot with work including my city and that's how we met). So next weekend, 1 week today, he was going to be here for 3 weeks, then away for Christmas for 2 weeks, then back here for a few weeks.
We had both been so excited, because up until now we could only see each other for 2 days and 1 night, once every 2 weeks. Last week we went away for the weekend and had 2 nights together, because I got a train for 3 and a half hours each way, to the city where he was working. He had been pleased we had 2 nights together.
So now we have the chance to finally be together as much as we have both been longing for, all this time - and now we have split up and won't get the chance.
I feel like we did most of the difficult part, but won't get to enjoy the easier part now, it feels so unfair.
We had booked a table at a restaurant, and I had bought us tickets to a Christmas party, I told all my friends he was coming (it's a big group too, so that night will be excrutiatingly painful with everyone asking where he is).
I can't stop crying, I was falling for him and he seemed perfect at first, so warm and caring compared to my avoidant ex.
I told one of my best friends and my sister. They both think he hasn't dumped me, but I am sure he has. Even if he hadn't, one of my dealbreakers is leaving me all alone and not fixing things during a conflict, if it goes over 24 hours. I can't calm down in those situations, I haven't slept (awake about 30 hours now), I haven't had anything to eat or drink except 1 cup of coffee, and I feel ill with worry not knowing if I will ever hear from him again, although I assume I won't now and we are over.
My friend said if it isn't working despite me trying my best, then it never would have worked. She read our texts and said it seems like he tries to make me jealous on purpose sometimes, I have noticed that myself, especially when I am going out without him.
My sister said she doesn't think he is a nice person, and that he is making me unhappy all the time.
I think he is a good person, that we are both under a lot of stress, the language barrier is hard, and the long distance is hard, especially with misunderstandings over text and phone. He also said he gets much less angry and upset in person, because he feels happy and peaceful when we are together in person. I was optimistic because although we are both anxiously attached, we were both trying hard to make the relationship work and make each other happy. I thought we would get through the initial hurdles and be stronger for it.
I was hoping my phone would go off all day, and be him, but it hasn't. Since I first met him he has sent me a good morning text every single day. So not getting that will break my heart again tomorrow morning (I used to have depression years ago, and morning always felt the worst).
I don't know how to cope with work tomorrow, and the house moving things too. My friends are supposed to be helping me move furniture, I was going to arrange that today, but again it's a large group and I can't face it.
I thought he was serious about me, he kept making future plans with me such as a holiday abroad next December, a holiday next summer, and he even asked if I would go back to his home country with him in a few years. I said yes because I could rent out the new house I have bought. We were exclusive straight away (dating multiple people isn't that common where I live, and I don't like it anyway), and had told our friends (he met some of my friends) and our sisters about each other. I told my mum about him, but he hadn't told his parents about me yet.
He used to say such sweet things, like he was dying from missing me, that he had never felt like this before etc. He said that he couldn't stop thinking about me, like he was under my spell, he said his feelings for me were getting bigger every day and it scared him. He said he would move to my city to be with me whatever it took, even if he lost his job.
I keep thinking that if he meant those things, if he really felt that way, surely he wouldn't throw everything away so easily. I don't know what hurts more, wondering if his feelings died, or if they were never real in the first place and he was lying all along.
I feel like he has lied and said lots of things that weren't true. Like when we made up after arguing, and he said he was ok, but then was obviously still angry and upset, proved by him reopening the argument the next day. And when he said I could text or ring him anytime and he would be kind to me. He kept saying he didn't want me to wait for his replies, and to ring him if I got worried. But then he seemed angry with me for doing that, even though it is what he asked me to do.
I felt often during arguments that I couldn't win, everything I said was wrong to him, even when I was being nice and telling him I cared about him etc. I tried so hard to make things work, I felt like it was never good enough for him.
He was on his own for 4 years before he met me, and I feel like he wanted a woman who is happy all the time, never worries, and never feels sad.
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Post by anne12 on Nov 27, 2023 1:21:51 GMT
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Post by bacardi on Nov 27, 2023 1:34:03 GMT
Thanks usernametaken, sunrisequest and Anne12, I thought I would make another post replying to your points, as it seems a separate thing now he has dumped me.
I did try counselling, but where I live there aren't many counsellors that specialise in attachement theory, and the ones that do you have to pay for (we have the NHS so the counselling I had was free). I tried to get in touch with one of the paid places, to see if I could afford it somehow, but they never replied to me.
Last year I was ghosted by someone I met a year after my avoidant ex died (he was killed in a crash). The man who ghosted me dumped me about 6 weeks in, because I got anxious on the anniversary of my avoidant exes death (I posted about it here at the time). He said he missed me and we got back together for about another 6 weeks, then I went on holiday and he ghosted me. I'm fairly sure he was avoidant too (I was trying to avoid avoidants, but did not realise he was at first).
So the fear of me sending a text which goes unanswered has 2 main parts: 1. My avoidant ex ignoring me for 2-3 days at a time, often in response to me sending him a nice text such as "How is your day going baby? xx", or after we had a nice time together, or shared a moment of closeness.
The feeling of him not wanting to talk to me was heartbreaking - the person I loved, not wanting to speak to me. So that was fear of rejection I think. The feeling of not being cared about or mattering to the person I loved broke my heart.
He used to say he loved me, and I think maybe in his own way he did, as much as he was capable of, but I could never understand how you could claim to love someone and treat them like that.
2. Fear that the lack of reply is actually the end of the relationship, such as when I was ghosted.
The ghoster and I had plans for when I got back from my holiday. He used to text me about 1-3 times a day (I was happy with that), but did not text me for 3 days after I got back. I hate double texting, but my friend advised me to, so I sent him a text saying "Hi, how are you? Just wondering if you still want to meet up tomorrow? xx"
That was the last message either of us ever sent each other. I was so upset that my best friend went to his work (without telling me), to make sure he was ok - she then told me she had done it and told me he was fine (I thought it was sweet of her to do that). The ghoster had also told me he loved me a few times.
I read that as anxiously attached people, we sense shifts in the relationship, so sometimes we are actually right, and there is a problem. I think this may have been the case sometimes with my new boyfriend, such as when he said we had made up and were ok, but then would text me the next day being passive aggressive (lashing out I think).
But in other cases it was definitely the anxiousness getting the better of me. Such as today - I would have accepted kisses and slept if he was working, but with him being off and sending kisses, I started to think he had been hurt (50%), ill (40%) cheated on me (10%). Because I was analysing and trying to work out why he couldn't type words.
Overthinking, analysing and trying to spot patterns in my partner's behaviour are my big weaknesses when my anxious attachment is triggered. I think partly because I am scared to text or ring them, so I am trying to work it out by myself.
I had been starting to relax and get a bit less scared of texting, because my new boyfriend was pretty good and replied most of the time, and he was texting so much, it kind of forced me to get used to it. But then last week when he said he could fall asleep at any time when texting me during the evenings, I freaked out and panicked, and felt too scared to text in the evenings (that's why I wanted a quick phonecall instead, because with a phonecall you always finish the conversation).
The alternatives is a good idea, thanks. I was trying this, until my new boyfriend kept telling me to ring him if I was worried. That was definitely a bad idea, and I will stick to keeping my worry to myself from now on.
I have tried journalling before, and found it helpful, thanks. The trouble I had with doing this with my new boyfriend, was that he never left me alone, so I kept running out of time to do it.
I think it was a mistake to do some of the things he wanted me to do. But I think he was trying to be kind, so I thought it would work (it made things worse instead). He told me to ring him every time it took him longer than 15mins to reply, but I refused because it sounded crazy to me.
I find inconsistency difficult with texting. So when my ghoster texted me 1-3 times a day, I was ok with that, because it had a rough pattern to it. And I can wait quite a few hours if I know my partner is busy as part of their routine. So if I have a partner who texts me at lunch time and when he finishes work, I can deal with that. Or morning and evening, if that is the pattern.
But with my new boyfriend, he would text so much that I felt bombarded at first. Then I got used to it and started to enjoy it, especially as he was sending me sweet romantic messages. But then when something happened and he could not reply for a few hours (but I didn't know what he was doing, so I sometimes wrongly guessed he was doing nothing, and just didn't want to talk to me), the huge difference in frequency freaked me out.
The first time I told him I had been worried and waiting for a few hours, he was horrified he had upset me by mistake, and he bombarded me with sweet mushy texts and apologies (about 15 texts in a row, I barely had time to reply). So then, trying to be kind, he gave me the bad advice (like telling me to ring him when I was worried, he did ask me to double text him but I refused).
I should have stuck to my original plan and dealt with it by myself, journalling and trying to think postively as you have suggested.
But he seemed so kind and seemed to want to help me, so I followed his suggestions - and then it backfired because he got angry with me for doing so. It was also very confusing for me, because I couldn't seem to please him, no matter what I tried.
Thanks for the links, I have bookmarked them. I should try to sleep, although I suspect I won't be able to, and I will be upset for a long time, so I will look at them a bit today, and a bit tomorrow.
I appreciate all of your help. I probably came here too late and should have done so at the beginning of the relationship - it just seemed to be going well at first.
It will help me going forwards, but I find it so difficult to work on healing anxious attachment when I am single, because as much as I can learn the theory, I don't get to practive dealing with my feelings when I am triggered, because I simply don't get triggered when I am single, I only get triggered when I am falling for someone special.
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Post by sunrisequest on Nov 27, 2023 3:26:33 GMT
That sounds tough, sounds like you're in a bit of pain, and no wonder. Sounds like a very intense few days of texting.
I haven't read your posts in huge detail, but it sounds a little bit like you're both quite dysregulated and anxious, and the conflict continued and escalated as a result, when really what you both need is to stop texting and take a break to calm and regulate your systems, and try and communicate again after that.
When two anxious attachers are in a relationship, it can be very hard to stay regulated, because you're both hyper-aware of changes in each other's mood and energy, both scanning for signs of potential abandonment, both very sensitive. It can become a melting pot of anxiety. It's almost like you're feeding off each other's anxiety... and weirdly an anxious partner is often repelled by the partner's anxious side... because you're kind of looking at mirror of your own behaviour, which can be very confronting. So that could potentially explain why he's gotten quite angry, even though he has shown signs of anxiety and a bit of paranoia himself.
Certainly sounds like you need to take care of yourself as you've got lots going on at the moment. And for the record, I think there's no harm in you setting a boundary for yourself around texting if it's causing you this level of distress. At least for the short-term and while you do some work to heal that side of yourself. There's so much that can be done.
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Post by cherrycola on Nov 27, 2023 17:23:56 GMT
Sorry, I only got about 3/4 of the way thru. For the immediate future you may want to add some meditation / self regulation exercises into your day to help you get thru this. Walks in nature are a great and easy to do one.
Overall this sounds like you are both destabilizing each other. I agree with your friends, he didn't end things and I actually think may be back, but I wouldn't let him come back. Long Distance is not good for APs and he sounds like he has more than just attachment going on. The passive aggressiveness should be a deal breaker here. It's just adding to the instability.
It sounds like your bar is so low from previous experiences that someone coming in barely above it, seems great to you. But in reality this is not the treatment you deserve.
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Post by bacardi on Nov 28, 2023 0:37:46 GMT
Hi again both. Sorry, I know it is so long - I think it's partly journalling for me at this point, so don't worry if you don't have time to read it all. Just typing it out is helping me to get things straight in my head.
Thanks, I'm in incredible pain, I can't stop crying. My boss rang me today to talk about work and I burst into tears, so she told me to finish early. I took her up on it and asked my friend if I could ring her.
Funnily my friend was going to a lecture on Attachment Theory tonight, so I bought a ticket and went with her. I would never normally want to leave the house this early in a break up, but I didn't want to miss the chance to learn more. I wasn't up to doing makeup, and would ruin it with crying anyway, so just apologised to my friend for looking awful and went along.
Sadly I already knew most of it - although maybe that is a good thing because it shows I have learned the theory side to a degree (although I'm always interested to learn more and go deeper into it). I just need to conquer my reactions and stop losing control to fear, when I am triggered.
I think he is unaware that he is anxious, and whilst I have the knowledge, I am not using it to regulate because I haven't learned how yet (I haven't practiced enough to find a method that works for me). It is almost like my brain shuts off and the knowledge goes out of the window when I am triggered, all I can think is "Fix it now, fix it now, fix it now!!!". So ironically fear of losing him caused me to lose him.
His behaviour didn't repel me, because I recognised it as him being anxious and I felt sympathetic, so I tried to reassure him. That said, his anger and him threatening to end things during each argument frightened me (fear of losing him), which triggered me more. But perhaps my worrying and asking for reassurance was starting to repel him. So although we are both anxious, our protest behaviours are different.
Such as his endless texting, and multiple texts, his jealousy and him trying to make me jealous. I don't think he realised what he was doing. But he seemed to be better at regulating his emotions, whereas I struggle to turn mine off. Once my worry turns to fear, I start crying. He said he felt so awful when I cried, he would beg me to stop, but I couldn't.
Thanks, you are right, but I don't think I can set a boundary with him now, as it is too late, because he has decided we are over, so we will possibly never talk again.
The upside of my fear of texting makes me fantastic at No Contact - because I am too terrified to text or ring him, even if I am missing him like crazy and thinking of him every second.
One of the first disagreements we had, was when he was ill once and texted me he was going home from work to bed, at about 11am. I replied straight away, wishing him to feel better and sleep well, and saying I wished I was there so I could cuddle him and look after him. Then as the day went on, I started wondering why he hadn't texted back, and wondering if I should text him. But on top of my complete reluctance to double text, I also didn't want to wake him up, because he doesn't sleep enough.
Then he sent me a moody text wishing me goodnight, and saying that if he cared about someone he would 'burn the world' to see if they were ok. I asked what he meant, and he said he would text and ring endlessly until they replied. I pointed out that he was the last one to text, and he said that was stupid and there shouldn't be a queue for texting. I told him I hadn't wanted to wake him up either, as he was ill, and he said he would have preferred that, because he thought I hadn't thought of him all day. Which was almost funny, because I had thought of him every single second that day, and I told him that. So we made up and he was ok with it.
So I have wondered if he is waiting for me to contact him, because his harsh texts were the last ones, I haven't replied. But I also think he knows that I am too scared.
Thanks, I definitely want to try more self regulation, I think mastering it may be the key to making a relationship last, for me.
Thanks, I have wondered if he might be back, but he just seemed so completely final, the things he said were so harsh. I don't see what I can say to "You ruined everything", if he really feels that way. Personally I think there are 2 sides to every argument, but he seems to be blaming me for the entire thing. Whereas I think it is 50/50, and the issues are the enemy, he is not the enemy.
Yesterday at around 12:45am (well Sunday night, you know), he changed his Whatsapp profile picture to his cat as a kitten. It's the same one I commented on once, and asked him about it, and said it was really cute.
He changed his status to "You don't have to be happy to smile" (with the crying laughing emoji). That might sound random, but when were were first together, he kept saying "Smile every time (my name)", especially if we were missing each other, and he used to say he missed my smile.
Tonight he changed his profle picture again, to a photo of him, from behind, wearing a hoodie with the hood up, staring out over water (a river or lake or something), and it is kind of grey hues. The whole vibe of the photo was sadness, I felt.
So now I feel like he might be sad too.
Thanks, I think my bar probably is really low at times, you're right.
I was with my ex-husband from the age of 18, for about 9 and a half years. I can't remember how long it took me to get over him, possibly 6 months, because the romantic side had been over a while when we split, but converseley, I think part of me still isn't over him. He was a wonderful man and my soulmate, he treated me like a princess. It was the first time I ever felt unconditionally loved and safe. I think he was secure with possible anxious leanings (jealousy etc.). When we split up (we lost the romance and realised we only had friendship left), I found it so hard to find a decent man to follow him, that I felt like no-one could ever measure up to him.
After that I met my emotionally abusive ex, I was with him for 8 months, but it took me 5 years to get over him. He broke me so much I gave up on love for a while. I think he was anxiously attached.
After him was my avoidant ex, I was with him for 3 years and we lived together. He died a year after we split up, so it took me 2 years to get over him in total, because of grieving his death.
After him was the ghoster, I was with him for 3 months, it took me a year to get over him. I think he was avoidant.
Then came my (now ex) boyfriend, I was with him for 2 months. I expect it will take me a year to get over him too.
And these are the nicest men I met. Between these were bad dates and false starts. So sometime I think my love life is in reverse, with the prince charming at the beginning, and me trying to life the rest of my life after that.
I have a scarcity mindset, partly due to my age, partly I hate being single. I'm trying to work on that, but I do find it hard to uphold boundaries and high standards of treatment. Part of me still prefers a bad relationship to being alone (I know I'm not supposed to think that).
Thanks, my sister and friends have said I deserve better too.
But I just feel so bad for him, because I think he is a good person under too much pressure, and on the verge of a nervous breakdown, not a bad person. And I was falling in love with him, which is hard to let go of.
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Post by cherrycola on Nov 28, 2023 4:12:33 GMT
"You have your reasons, but I have my reality" is something I repeat a lot. Eventually you get a point where it doesn't really matter WHY someone does something, just that they are not treating you the way you deserved to be treated.
Then on top of that, throw in "how would I treat someone in this situation?" or "how would my friends treat me?" and then their behavior starts to stand out. I found it shocking to find out that most abusers would be considered anxious attachment.
To your comment about how mad he got and the things he said. I had someone do that to me over and over, end things, stomp his feet, call me horrible names and then a few days come back all lovely dovey as if nothing had happened. It's straight out of the abusers handbook.
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Post by sunrisequest on Nov 28, 2023 23:42:44 GMT
There's no way of knowing of course, but I suspect he'll come back at some point. So it will help you to get clear on what you want from a relationship in the meantime.
Scarcity mindset becomes a real thing as you get older and the dating pool gets smaller, and is filled with a higher proportion of insecure types. I can understand what you're saying as an anxious attacher when you say that any type of relationship is better than no relationship, and that's a huge reason people stay in situations that really don't suit them. This fear and worry that nothing else better will come around the corner, and you'll just be left alone. But this mindset rarely leads to good, healthy relationships. Can be really worthwhile to spend some of your focus on trying to lift your own sense of security and worth with therapy, but also just trying to make healthy, positive choices in all aspects of your life, because you deserve that... and let that mindset flow through to your expectation of your relationships. It's okay to have expectations and standards for your partners.
I think if we applied a logical mindset, it would be better to casually date and try not to invest emotionally entirely until you find someone who really does suit you and is good enough for you. And you don't usually know that until you're a little way in and have a chance to see different sides of someone, and what they're like under stress etc. But that is so much easier said than done. But there are some really good men out there. Men you can depend on and you can grow with. Nobody is perfect, and everyone has stuff they need to work on, and I think we all have 'toxic' traits that we're not totally aware of that come up in relationship, but if you have got someone who you can really talk to and be vulnerable with, and you trust they want to work with you on all the things, then you have got something to work with. But sometimes it's just not a compatible partner, and that's all there is to it. There doesn't need to a victim or villain, just a mismatch in emotional maturity.
If you do end up coming back together, it might be worth spending some time thinking about what your boundaries and standards are in a relationship. If he has a tendency to lose his temper and text nasty things in the heat of the moment, how is that going to affect you? Your anxious side means you're more likely to fawn and stay in those conversations than is healthy for you, so what can you do to draw a line underneath a a conversation that has gone sideways, and hold a standard that helps you to stay safe and regulated?
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Post by bacardi on Dec 1, 2023 0:07:56 GMT
Thanks, I've heard that before myself, it is good advice I think. I've been thinking about him and the situation a lot, and talking to friends. I don't know if he would turn out to be abusive, or if that reaction was caused by me pushing him too far. As much as I don't want to end up with someone toxic, I also don't want to lose someone who is a good man, just because we gave up too soon. From his side, perhaps I am the unreasonable one. I do find it difficult to set boundaries romantically, but it's something I can only learn with practice I think. I'm trying to learn more all the time, but it's impossible to do when you are single. I think I would want to give him another chance, if only because the long distance part of our relationship would be a lot less, and we could see each other in person a lot more, so it might be just what we need for things to work, because the circumstances would be so different. But if we did, then I would need to set boundaries as you have said, and perhaps I would try to give it a time limit in my head. He did seem to be someone who would talk through issues at first, he did seem willing to work on things, he used to say we could solve anything by talking. I talked to a friend tonight who agreed with the others that he hasn't actually ended things (even though I feel like he has). She said he might be waiting for me to answer him, because I didn't reply to his last 2 texts (the harsh ones where he said I'd ruined everything). She is much braver than me at texting, and she advised me to text him and ask what is going on. She said things can't get any worse, and I think she has a point. I told her I am too scared but she said at least I would know for sure instead of waiting, and at least if he reacted badly or said it really is over between us, that at least I would know. I think she might be right, so I might try it tomorrow after work. She said he might be worried he has ruined things and waiting for me to reply. I wasn't convinced because he seemed so angry and final with what he said. And he used to text me so much that I feel like if he wanted to talk to me, he very easily could. I'm scard he won't reply, or that he will reply with something nasty. But part of me thinks I would regret it even more if I didn't take a chance, because if she is right and he is waiting for me to reply, he might be thinking that I am the one giving him the silent treatment. She said to keep it short, don't apologise, and just ask what is going on. I thought I might try something like this: "I didn't reply to your last 2 messages, because I assumed that was you ending things between us. But after thinking about it, I just want to check and make sure that is really what you meant, now that the long distance is almost over and you will be in my city much more? If I don't hear from you, then I will take that as our ending and wish you all the best" How does that sound? And what are your thoughts on texting him? I have tried casual dating in the past, but I'm not good at it. If I'm not falling in love, I get bored very quickly and dump people. I learned the hard way (by breaking hearts) that I don't develop feelings for people slowly over time, if it's not there, it's not there, with me. I'm quite romantic and casual dating is pointless for me, I can't separate sex from love, I just get too attached. I'm either really into someone or not interested at all. Either way, whether things are over with him or not, I do have a question, not just about long distance, but any relationship where you are apart for a couple of weeks. The advice here jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/948/starting-difficult-conversation-call-text says never to do it over text or phone, always in person. But I struggle with that, for a couple of reasons, because if I would not see my partner in person for a couple of weeks: 1. I definitely have a 'fix it now' mentality and find it torturous waiting a few hours to discuss an issue with a partner - I feel like if I had to wait a couple of weeks, unti I saw them in person, I'd be a nervous wreck by then and in no fit state to discuss things calmly. 2. How do you pretend everything is ok in the meantime? I find it impossible to hide my emotions and pretend to be fine, I have even burst into tears at work sometimes if I am upset. 3. If the relationship was long distance, I wouldn't want our precious 'in person time' to always be spent discussing issues. I'd rather discuss things over text, resolve them, and then keep the 'in person time' as a purely positive experience and time to make happy memories together. 4. When I am emotional, I find it hard to talk rationally in person or over the phone, I prefer to send a text, because even if I am not calm, I can choose my words carefully, make sure I am using non-combative language and 'I statements', and edit the message until I think it is good enough to send. In person or on the phone, I can blurt things out that I either didn't mean, or just phrased really badly by mistake. What are your thoughts on this?
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Post by cherrycola on Dec 1, 2023 1:46:45 GMT
One thing that took me a bit to learn was it's important to pay attention to how people treat you during the hards times. While you may have "pushed" him (and I say that lightly because we are all each responsible for our own behavior) he shows up how he shows up. Even at my worse, dysregulated and pushed to extremes I would never ever dream of doing that to a partner. I used to, maybe in my teens?! But now, no way ! I will repeat over and over I need space or can we talk later or at worse leave the solituation over saying terrible things to my partner.
People whose behavior skews abusive are great at avoiding accountability and blaming others. Think (look at what you made me do)
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Post by anne12 on Dec 1, 2023 2:06:14 GMT
People can say / text and do a lot of shitty things when they are under stress. You are both stressed, so it can be difficult to be able to be there for eachother. When you are in survival mode there is often no room for love ect. Often when we are under stress, we can operate from the more primitive part of our brain (reptile part of our brain) with fight, flight, freeze, fawn, collapse responces ect. The prefrontal cortex part of your brain can go off line for a while. Stress can push you into some desorganised behavior / survival mode There are posts on the board about what to do when one or both partners are under a lot of stress, how the masculine / feminine reacts to stress (feminine / masculine is not gender specific) ect. www.instagram.com/reel/C0P9PyRr47-/You can try to search for the word “stress” in the thread “how to create a long lasting juicy relationship” in the general discussion forum. Sometimes it can be a good thing to put the relationship on pause for a while when you are under a lot of stress…? - jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2289/tips-create-lasting-juicy-relationshipHow do men from his country normally behave ? You can always ask for a conversation (there is a model for how to have a good conversation). You can write things down beforehand about what you want to say…(Maybe you just have to be courious and listen ?) Are you not able to use zoom, FaceTime ect. ? (I haven’t read all your posts)
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Post by bacardi on Dec 2, 2023 2:17:55 GMT
Thanks, he is definitely a 'look at what you made me do' type. He seems to be blaming me for everything instead of accepting his part.
Thanks for the links.
Men from his country are (from googling it) hot tempered and passionate. He even said "I am not english, you can't say that to a (man from my country)" - I was a bit baffled because I wondered what differnce it could make, surely we are all just people? And men are men?
I would like to talk to him.
We didn't use Zoom or Facetime much because I don't like video calls. He begged me so I did Whatsapp video calls with him a couple of times. I told him he needs to give me enough time to put make up on and he kept saying he likes me better without it (I hate it when men say that). I gave in though, we had a video call one day with makeup, and the next without because he begged. I was really uncomfortable without makeup though.
My friend advised me to text him: "Hi, I didn't reply to your last texts, because I didn't know how to respond, and I was just wondering, did you mean what you said?
If I don't hear from you, I guess you don't want to speak to me.
I just wanted to check to make sure, now that the long distance is almost over and you will be in (my city) a lot more xx." So I sent it about 8:20pm.
He replied at about 9:35pm and said: "Hi (my name), I don't know what I can say or what I should say. Only I know we both shattered xx"
At first I was really confused. But I think by 'Only I know we both shattered' he means we both ruined it.
I'm still not sure what he means by he doesn't know what he can say or what he should say?
I feel like I'm still no wiser and don't know if he wants to fix things or split up.
I haven't replied yet. I'm so tired of the whole thing, I might just be honest and tell him something like: "I was hoping we could fix things.
It seems a shame we made it through so much of the hard long distance part, to never try the easier in person part.
Let me know if you want to talk, we can talk on the phone or in person"
What do you think?
I almost feel like things can't get worse and maybe a bad answer is better than nothing.
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