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Post by yasmin on Dec 20, 2017 20:10:40 GMT
Have you got romantic feelings towards him? It sounds a bit unlike friendship to me? I have some very, very, very close friends of the opposite sex but because they are just friends I love them but don;t experience emotions or analysis on this level so I was just wondering if you have some feelings of wanting to be more than friends?
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Post by kismett on Dec 20, 2017 20:57:54 GMT
I very much wanted his approval. For him to be proud of me. To pay attention to me and feel a special bond. It’s very confusing. And slightly embarrassing to be honest. But aren’t our attachment systems tied to our upbringing and what we lacked?
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cate
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Post by cate on Dec 20, 2017 21:02:19 GMT
I would ask you what you want to accomplish with this e mail?
It sounds like you are still trying to help him - letting him know he’s not at fault, that he can’t help how he feels, etc.
I think as long as that’s your mindset - you can’t fully heal because it’s still focused on HIM and not YOU. I’ve been there. For the first month or so - I was all about understanding why my ex did this and why he did that and what his childhood trauma was. Then things slowly shifted and now I realize that it doesn’t matter. He didn’t choose me. He didn’t choose our relationship. He made a decision and that decision hurt me so if he’s hurting too - that’s on him!
I’m not saying I’m blameless in the relationship. I was definitely triggered but again - this was a grown man. He has no mental deficits. He’s capable of making decisions and living with the consequences.
I read somewhere that if someone wants to change - they can. He knows how to Google. He knows how to search amazon. He can find a therapist since he knows you have one so they exist. My point is - you are where you are because he made a decision. So he’s capable of it. And you can’t gently guide him to it.
It’s hard to accept that. I’m still working on it. But once you do - it actually becomes easier to reach out. I’m conaidering it with me ex. But before I do I always ask myself ‘what if he doesn’t respond?’ If it bothers me - I don’t do it. And I keep working on me.
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cate
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Post by cate on Dec 20, 2017 21:11:33 GMT
I guess I’m wondering why it matters what he thinks of you? Again this is a person who coldly cut you off and caused you tremendous pain. But it seems like you are still focused on his feelings and thoughts?
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cate
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Post by cate on Dec 20, 2017 21:22:38 GMT
I am glad you are exploring a new therapy route. I am as well. As I mentioned - over time my focus shifted away from my ex.
I am not angry at my ex. I used to be. Now I’m more about finding peace. And healing. As I mentioned I would like to be friends with my ex. We started out that way. But until I get to the point where I do not care whether he responds or not - I know I haven’t gotten over him.
That’s why your message struck me. It showed a lot of thought and effort to understand him. But you didn’t seem to stand out in it. And this reminded me of my relationship with my ex. Toward the end it was all about him. His timeline. His needs. His wants. His interests.
And then after we broke up I was still in that pattern for a while. Why did he do that. How can I understand him. He was still occupying so much head space. I had to push him out so I could get in there if that makes sense.
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Post by yasmin on Dec 20, 2017 22:08:58 GMT
Yasmin - it was confusing to me at first why my attachment system was triggered with him. To clarify - I’m a woman and he’s a gay man. I wondered if I did have romantic feelings for him when all this stirred up. I didn’t want to do anything physical with him. I wanted to be important in his life. My therapist and I have started to realize it’s very much tied to the love I never received from my dad. (This Guy is 8 years older than me) I always felt like he was more of a big brother. But there were definitely parental moments... Hmmmmmmmmmmm.................................................. To use an analogy; imagine you really want to go scuba diving but to go scuba diving you need a "buddy" or a partner because it's only something you can do in pairs. So you are out there on the ocean with your dive buddy in your wetsuits and everyone else is already in the water, but your dive buddy won't get off the boat. He's terrified of water (although he really want to scuba dive). So instead of scuba diving, you're swimming along side the boat, telling him it's safe and it's okay and the water is beautiful and he should come in. You're like a cheerleader and sounding so enthusiastic but you can't convince him because his fear of the water is just too strong. So you end up not going scuba diving at all. Or at most you end up going for a swim and putting your face in but you're not really scuba diving because your partner won't go. You feel sad and deflated because you really did want to do it!!! When you really examine the situation though....why pick to go scuba diving with someone who's told you they are terrified of the water? Seems a strange choice? Secretly BOTH people are terrified of scuba diving. The one in the boat obviously is, but the one swimming alongside can conveniently act like they're not because their partner is not available for scuba diving hence they never actually have to face their own terror of going under water and they can avoid the whole process by just acting out the story. So what I am saying is....you could not possibly have picked a more "unavailable" scuba partner here than a gay avoidant! That's like the gold standard, there is absolutely no possibility of any relationship ever, under any circumstances, and yet your post reads like someone in a romantic and deeply emotional relationship. So I think what's going on here is that you are acting out a pseudo romantic relationship with this DA because you know for sure it's safe, that he's never going to love you back and that way you don't have to dive under water. I think you might be FA rather than AP? If you are, then you're putting yourself into this situation unwittingly and then beating yourself up. Self perpetuating cycle of pain because you're convinced you want intimacy but secretly deep down maybe it terrifies you. Friends are much less likely to reject you than romantic partners. Much less likely to be quite so intimate. Much less likely to be dependent on you or vice versa. Whatever the case, and sorry for the armchair psychology, I think he doesn't hate you. Of course not. He probably just feels (as we have all felt just from reading what you wrote) that it's a bit overkill for a platonic relationship and I think that probably made him feel very uncomfortable and as if not seeing you was the best thing to do. He will just forget about it and probably some time in future you can / will be friends again once you've resolved this attachment issue with him (which is for you to do by yourself). Sixty days of no contact and then check in on him, but please don't send long emotioanl emails....I'd be really freaked out if a friend did that to me...just send a breezy message asking how he is in a couple of months and I am sure it will be fine. I deep down don't think this is really about him at all though!
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Post by kismett on Dec 20, 2017 22:21:16 GMT
As much as I see you’re trying to help, Yasmin, you only have a brief insight into my history and attachment type. I’m without a doubt an AP. And no, there was no romantic attachment to this person. It was deeply tied to parental feelings. It doesn’t make it less complicated, but I believe you are assuming and determining conclusions from a very small glimpse of my life.
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Post by yasmin on Dec 20, 2017 22:24:05 GMT
Apologies Kismett, it sounded like a post about an unrequited love. I must have misinterpreted your feelings.
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Post by kismett on Dec 20, 2017 22:24:27 GMT
His behaviour was far beyond being freaked out over a platonic friendship. There were many many signs of him being avoidant not just to me but to everyone. My description above was simply describing the parts that makes me wonder if an avoidant can have these compassionate, sensitive side and if that leaves room for reconciliation.
I would appreciate you not jumping to major psychological conclusions without having a very big scope of who I am and who this person is. I’m already sorting out the psychology behind it with professionals, myself, and my friends. I’m sinply asking a separate question about avoidant behaviour.
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Post by kismett on Dec 20, 2017 22:25:08 GMT
Apology accepted
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Post by yasmin on Dec 20, 2017 22:34:36 GMT
You don't come across at all as a controlling monster at all and I am sure he doesn't see you that way. Time heals almost all wounds, especially with good friends.
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Post by kismett on Dec 20, 2017 22:50:51 GMT
Thank you for saying that. I think my concern comes from reading on these forums that avoidants are triggered because they feel controlled and manipulated. He actually shamed me in his last message about how people perceive me. He was very vague but I wonder if he perceives me as controlling and manipulative, when I was just very scared.
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Post by yasmin on Dec 20, 2017 23:18:19 GMT
Well people's perception of you is 50% what you did and 50% how they see it. In time with space I think the perception can often change because the intensity of the moment has passed and the emotional attachment to whatever happened diminishes.
I remember a few years ago I was dating someone for about six weeks and I found him very clingy. He probably wasn't actually clingy, but I just didn't want as much closeness as he did. I remember he would do protest behavior to try and get me to give him what he wnated. Subtle and not abusive, but I did persieve it as manipulative and controilling and it made me break it off with him. A few years later he is happily with someone else (who loved his clinginess) and we are pretty great friends! He is not controlling or manipulative in his nature, but in that situation I felt he was.
However I recently dated an avoidant and I think he perceived me as controlling and manipulative, so the boot was on the other foot. Maybe it's just what someone perceives in a situation and not a character assessment overall.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 23:25:57 GMT
I may be totally off base, but here is what I see from the information provided. You saw him as a sort of father figure and being a gay man, was safe to assume he would not have romantic feelings for you, hence it seemed ok to see him this way. As a "daughter", you really want to win his approval, pride etc. I don't know if he was able to give you some of that in the past or perhaps was uncomfortable with you placing such importance on the relationship.
But to your question: "But I guess my initial question still stands of whether it’s a hard and fast rule that avoidants turn a switch on people who triggered them. Seeing them only in a negative light.". I can only answer from my own point of view and I do not speak for any other avoidant. For me, it depends on the trigger, how often it occurred and the nature of the relationship. If this person was always supportive of me in the past and had respected my boundaries, but slipped up once or twice, I may take some space, but it will easily be forgotten with some time. If I can think back and see a pattern of triggers with this person, it could very well be the final defining incident. This happened with a best friend of mine. She didn't show up to my brother's funeral. I didn't speak to her after that day, not because she didn't come to the funeral, but because we had a long history of her lying and backstabbing me, including sleeping with a guy that I was dating. It was just the defining moment. That was 15 years ago. We have mutual friends in common, so I have seen her a few times in those 15 years and I speak to her cordially, but we were never friends again.
She did send me a letter apologizing profusely, but I could never see allowing her back into my heart. The letter was just not enough to undo the damage.
No one here can tell you what he's thinking or what will happen. I have always been one to say that if sending a letter will make you feel better, then send it. If he doesn't respond and you think that will break you, don't send it.
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Post by kismett on Dec 20, 2017 23:58:09 GMT
Mary - the cut off wasn’t because of the importance I placed on him. I only realized later why the cut off affected me so drastically. He did act parental to me. Was a bit of a mentor. Him being gay doesn’t really make a difference. It only points to an assumption I believe is true that he had repressed his feelings for so long in his life, hence why he is avoidant. I have attached to friends like this before. Male,, female, straight, gay. Attachment trauma doesn’t only apply to romantic relationships. People will have to trust me on this board that it had nothing to do with how I viewed him. That was not the reason for the cut off. It was my anxious behaviours - worrying he’s mad at me, asking if I did something wrong if he didn’t answer for a week, getting anxious over his lack of communication and flakiness in plans. He had many avoidant tendencies. I could list them here, but to me there’s no point. I firmly am sure he is an avoidant.
His reason for the cut off is because I would get anxious when he didn’t answer texts for many days. I held back a lot and kept it in check. Over the course of our friendship I slipped up three times. And then he cut it off. He was also hinting I was clingy and he has no time for me. He struggles to find time for people. My panicked reaction due to abandonment was what made him say we were never going to speak again. The panic caused him stress that made him withdraw completely. I didn’t know that was a trigger. I didn’t know he was an avoidant at this point.
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