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Post by alexandra on Jun 5, 2024 1:01:54 GMT
Avoidants may not feel the impact due to numbness, but it's the same problem even if it's the flip side of the coin. The numbness is a subconscious way to insulate yourself from an overwhelmed nervous system. The anxious person's triggered nervous system floods, the avoidant's shuts down and numbs out. But both make it impossible to fully process feelings and keep the person stuck, even if it looks different. He may not feel the pain in the same way, but dealing with relationships, bigger picture, is just as miserable for him as it is for you because the way they unfold doesn't result in calmness or happiness.
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Post by alexandra on Jun 5, 2024 1:05:24 GMT
A good link for all insecures is here: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2372/overcoupling-stress-response
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 5, 2024 2:20:08 GMT
I see my AP style but I don't see how to feel less miserable, less in love and less attached knowing about it, even working on it. I don't have fantasy on him or having a relationship with him nomore since ages, but I would love to keep on doing things with him and not as a friend neither, I was very very clear with him that we will never be friends.
There are really only 2 things that help….Time and No Contact. If you continue to communicate with him…it is like getting a small fix with horrible withdrawal symptoms…so no…you likely won’t change being miserable, heartbroken and stuck until you prioritize yourself and block him from contacting you until you have had a chance to get over him. I realize that for a period of time you will feel a million times worse….but on the other side of that hurt..,you will begin to move on. Right now you are having repeated micro hurts.
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 5, 2024 13:56:27 GMT
Good morning and thanks to you all again. I read the article, it is crazy how the nervous system works. I also think as an AP person with BDP and complex PTSD, my nervous system is fucked up. Seriously, the way I feel pain is absolutely intense and the way I feel the hopelessness in my future too. I don't see any good outcome in the future. I can see younger friends having best careers (mine is good but for my age I should be ahead of them and I am not) and more stable relationships and I feel so bad. I know avoidants suffer too, but I think in a way that their nervous systems works better in terms of daily functioning because they feel the pain less intensely. It's like their nervous system made another, better deal in terms of suffering. That's what I perceive. I have FA traits when I start relationships and my sister is FA so I know it's hard too. I am just saying that AP+BDP+CPTSD is a mortal formula and I feel overwhelmed and having bad luck all the time. After the violent death of my 10-year partner at only 33+ all the consequences of it (a movie, you cannot imagine)+ the death of my mother only two years after, it's difficult not to think that your life is under a bad spell. I did not think this way before and even if my family had huge problems, and I already struggles with depression, I had hope in life and things could go well for me. Afte e trauma, and being in my 30s, I lost all hope. I see others' light and I see how I don't have it anymore at all. And having had only complicated relationships with men made it worst. I remember once my avoidant said that I would get tired of him and that he would have understood but also he would have been affected and hurt by it. But on Sunday I asked him if he was impacted by the fact that we were sharing less, and he said that 'he had been somehow the one proposing it so he was not that impacted'. Even if he was not at all cold with me after saying this and that I saw he was struggling with the idea of not seeing me anymore, still, I think about it and I say wow. He is not impacted. In these two years he never wanted a real relationship out of fear of suffering as he did in the past, and he managed to do it. Keeping it as a situationship where we did some things as a couple and others as not, he managed not to suffer if things ended. As he had planned since the beginning. I don't blame him at all, for nothing. I dont think he is mean, not at all, neither selfish. I think he is smart and self-protective and he loves himself far more than what I do with myself. I also think he has a stronger network around him, this is his country, his family and friends are here and they do things all the time. I just don't understand why the response in anyone must be so different and why I am not stronger or more independent. Cause in the end I have huge traumas on me and I could have been someone distant, someone who fears love, someone who avoids, too. I am not saying it is better to be avoidant but somehow I wish my response to trauma was different. When it is...codependency. I was not like that in my 20s. I was super focused on me and my outcomes even being in a serious, committed, loving relationship (with my partner who died). So I don't know, I just ask myself why my responses have been so painful, so focused on others. Have you started your new therapy yet? These are great questions to address with a therapist who is familiar with your specific needs. Also, be kind to yourself…one thing that can develop is all or nothing thinking….meaning…you give him a ton of grace for his wounding but do not have grace for your own. I disagree that avoidants have it easier…..in fact….i would say that having an avoidance reaction can equate to not seeking therapy or any other healing options. The vast majority of individuals who come here are those who have an anxious response…whether that be an AP or an FA. In moments where I have experienced my avoidance reactions…I am walled up, shut down and numb.
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 5, 2024 15:25:06 GMT
Hello, I have never left therapy and yes I already talked about these questions in therapy, one of the goals of it is to address this negative idea of my life. Another thing that is scary for me is that I think A LOT about his ex girlfriend, how she was, how he got in love with her and committed, and many things of their relationship which is crazy, crazy. He never ever did the phantom ex stuff with me, he never said she is better than me or things like that and he does not have the avoidant trait of "seeing my flaws" at all (he has always talked about me in a super amazing way), maybe cause he is more FA than DA, but still I think about it so much, comparing myself, and asking why I am not her, which is ridiculous I know, believe me, a part from keeping him on a pedestal etc... I know. But my brain keeps on thinking on her and their relationship, which I am sure was far from perfect but still. I dont know why my brain thinks so much about it. I feel ridiculous. So tnr9 when you are numb you don't think about the other ever? sorry for asking that. I remember after our break in September he told me he had thought a lot about me and missed me but I feel now it's different. He is super focused on himself, he has new friends and hangs out all the time. So…remember that someone with an FA attachment can “swing” from avoidance to anxious….so yes, he could certainly miss you from a distance. That is not an unusual thing because he gets to miss the fantasy of you….not really “you”….just as you miss the “fantasy” of him…not really him. The thing is…an unhealed FA is going to trigger you all the time and you are going to trigger him…and it is only in the brief moments between those triggers when things will seem amazing. I understand what you mean about comparing…..however….you need to realize you are only able to compare her externals…you don’t know what she was struggling with internally. Being a phantom x is not a great thing….it is actually a coping tactic…comparing anyone else to a fantasy of an old partner. It isn’t really missing the partner but avoiding any intimacy with someone new. I can assure you…..she likely went through the same treatment you did.
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Post by kaleidorain on Jun 5, 2024 16:54:12 GMT
Yeah i dont think now he misses her, we talked about it. And I guess he used to compare others to her before meeting me but when we met he said he was amazed that he could like so much someone again.
That's why i feel crazy that I think so much about it just because i know how much in love he was and what he did for her. But thanks for helping me.
I am trying to stay calm and not to panic. It is true that not being a formal relationship I do not feel all the heaviness of "future projects" broken cause we did not have any, but we did many things together in town and it hurts not to do them with him.
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Post by kaleidorain on Jun 5, 2024 22:11:48 GMT
I am starting feeling anxious and depressed again, not that I wasn't before but I was a bit calmer. Now it is starting again and I guess it will be more and more horrible with the following days. I cannot stop thinking.
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 6, 2024 1:57:56 GMT
I am starting feeling anxious and depressed again, not that I wasn't before but I was a bit calmer. Now it is starting again and I guess it will be more and more horrible with the following days. I cannot stop thinking. Can you detach those feelings of anxiety from him and recognize that it is your own nervous system going into overdrive. Perhaps you need to speak to your doctor.
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Post by lovebunny on Jun 6, 2024 13:18:02 GMT
There's no easy road through this, you've been tangled up in needing his validation for years now, it will take time and work to get your mind focused back on you. As I said before, this is always my biggest personal challenge after a breakup, dealing with obsessive rumination long after the fact, so I get how overwhelming it feels.
I gave myself a year after my last breakup, a year that I accepted I'd often feel bad (knowing I could survive a year,) a year to admit to friends I wasn't totally ok, a year to go easy on my self, be self-indulgent (not to a point of being an alcoholic or over-eating or spending all your money.) But, take that trip you've always wanted to, do that thing you never dared to do, buy expensive, super-soft sheets, take yourself out to a fancy dinner, adopt a llama, whatever! The more memorable things you do that don't involve HIM, the better. And exercise! Right now your nervous system is probably in some form of fight/flight/fawn & that energy needs to be released. I know it doesn't feel like it right now, and your body is telling you otherwise, but you don't need him to feel good.
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Post by lovebunny on Jun 7, 2024 17:52:28 GMT
So what are you actually missing? How much time together did you actually spend, vs. how much time did he take up in your thoughts? What did he do for you, or with you, that is absent now?
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Post by sunrisequest on Jun 7, 2024 19:59:06 GMT
If you suffer from BPD, the worst possible thing I can imagine is someone who keeps disappearing and shutting down and poking at your abandonment wounds in this way. Given all you've been through, you really need a partner who is quite secure and has the ability to be present and attentive to you and your needs. For the short-term, this is probably going to feel like absolute hell for you as you detach from him and have to feel all the feels of that. But overall, it's going to put you in a better position as you will have chance to heal and begin again with someone who can show up for you. This guy can't... he just can't. It doesn't mean he doesn't care and that you don't have a great connection, but he just hasn't got the skills or capacity to be the partner you need.
The sad thing is, his distancing makes you question yourself and if you are good enough, but it's better to try and see clearly what his limitations are, which it sounds like you do, so now it's a case of reaffirming that knowledge and trying to be strong about creating your own distance - so that you can heal.
For the short term, reaching out to friends or counsellors is a good way to get through - you're in a lot of pain, so do what you need to do. Longer-term, therapy and self soothing techniques will help, but it's just day by day at the moment. Focus on the basics - try and eat well, try and sleep when you can, try and get a bit of fresh air each day, do all the crying you need. It probably doesn't seem like it now, but this stage is going to pass, and you'll be stronger for it all one day. Baby steps.
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Post by sunrisequest on Jun 8, 2024 0:41:41 GMT
It does hurt - and will continue to hurt for a while - tending to that hurt in the most supportive way you can is all you can do. The mind will want to ruminate and make you doubt your stance. But if you can somehow find the strength to hold strong, you will thank yourself for it later down the track. You're worth more than what he's offering. Wishing you all the best x
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Post by lovebunny on Jun 8, 2024 13:26:21 GMT
"It is not an option for me to see you less."
I am so proud of you that you told him that!!! It is totally ok to acknowledge that you require a certain amount of contact to stay engaged. If that amount seems "needy" to your partner, that's on them.
10 years ago, I was dating a very smart narcissist, struggling with how little they wanted to spend time with me. I explained to her how after a few days of not hearing from her, I got anxious & upset. She replied, cooly, "It must be very painful to have a ticking clock."
That has stuck in my head for 10 years now. So how to mitigate that ticking clock? Having a full life helps. Being secure in yourself AND in your r'ship helps a lot.
My last (FA) ex and I just negotiated it out. I was like, I don't want to be left alone for more than two nights in a row, and I'd love a goodnight text evenings we're not together. Done. If your "partner" can't cooperate with you on an amount of time together that feels right, you're probably not compatible. If what you're asking isn't unreasonable and doesn't get in the way of his other important commitments,and he throws a fit, that's on him.
I'm thinking it feels different when you choose someone who wants as much contact as you do. My new bf is a Stage 5 Clinger like me, and so far, I've never have to ask for or negotiate for or try to finagle his attention. He WANTS me in his world as often as possible. I suspect my clock could actually go a little longer without him because I wouldn't be worried he's forgetting about me and/or hitting up other women.
You did the right thing! You couldn't have made yourself demand any less without disappearing completely.
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Post by mrob on Jun 9, 2024 7:12:24 GMT
This feeling of devastation is surely attachment based. Please, this isn’t intended to minimise your pain. Grief is a necessary part of life, but there’s more to this, and I suspect that’s how you’re here. My take is that it’s ceased to be about him, this is now your stuff. The choice I had with an attachment based problem was whether to deal with it now that it’s come up, or have the whole pattern repeat itself later. Not an easy choice to make. It means digging and being prepared to discard long held beliefs, and learning something new and ultimately more functional. It’s really hard, but worth it.
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Post by kaleidorain on Jun 14, 2024 18:44:25 GMT
hello to you all. Sorry if i deleted my posts, but i feel like a crazy person recently, after having BPD, being AP and with a complex trauma. I am struggling with side effects of antidepressants and had to cut them so I feel lost. There have been news with this person but I won't write them down here, I just want to thank you everyone of you for your kindness and patience.
I feel very much depressed, lost, disconnected and crazy, not only for this situation. I think loneliness (even if i have many friends and activities) drives me crazy too. I am reaching out to my therapist and doc, dont worry, but they cannot save the whole situation. I would just love to disappear. I know this is not the place for this but I wanted to explain.
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