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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 7:25:26 GMT
From reading on this forum, there are folks out there who are not avoidant, in relationships with avoidant individuals, who genuinely want to support and show compassion towards their partners.
As an avoidant I find that kind of nurturing care really difficult to deal with - it smacks of control (even though I am sure that's not the intent) and is actually a real turn off, to me at least. Maybe I am just kind of wierd, but to me the biggest kind of support that someone could show is just being there - really being present and being able to stick with things so that I feel safe to be wierdly me. At this point i feel much more able to give of myself and from here the relationship can grow.
All the sympathy and kindness and understanding in the world doesn't do it for me as much as an unjudgemental acceptance and a clear expression of personal boundaries from my partner - I attempt to offer the same although it's a work in progress. That is what love is to me - unconditional being present without judgement - it sounds simple but I don't think it's easy to get there without really dealing with your own "stuff" whichever attachment style you have.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 14:14:22 GMT
I do agree with you. May I ask what would you do in return for an understanding partner?  |
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 5, 2018 15:23:02 GMT
From reading on this forum, there are folks out there who are not avoidant, in relationships with avoidant individuals, who genuinely want to support and show compassion towards their partners. As an avoidant I find that kind of nurturing care really difficult to deal with - it smacks of control (even though I am sure that's not the intent) and is actually a real turn off, to me at least. Maybe I am just kind of wierd, but to me the biggest kind of support that someone could show is just being there - really being present and being able to stick with things so that I feel safe to be wierdly me. At this point i feel much more able to give of myself and from here the relationship can grow. All the sympathy and kindness and understanding in the world doesn't do it for me as much as an unjudgemental acceptance and a clear expression of personal boundaries from my partner - I attempt to offer the same although it's a work in progress. That is what love is to me - unconditional being present without judgement - it sounds simple but I don't think it's easy to get there without really dealing with your own "stuff" whichever attachment style you have. I think it is so interesting...because I believe we give what we most want to get. I think it is because we tend to know ourselves best and it is easy to assume that what works well for us, would work well for our partner. I think it is when these wants are acted upon, but not spoken through, that misunderstandings occur. So regardless of attachment, I think it is fair to talk about what makes you feel accepted versus your partner in the beginning stages of your relationship. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 16:09:31 GMT
From reading on this forum, there are folks out there who are not avoidant, in relationships with avoidant individuals, who genuinely want to support and show compassion towards their partners. As an avoidant I find that kind of nurturing care really difficult to deal with - it smacks of control (even though I am sure that's not the intent) and is actually a real turn off, to me at least. Maybe I am just kind of wierd, but to me the biggest kind of support that someone could show is just being there - really being present and being able to stick with things so that I feel safe to be wierdly me. At this point i feel much more able to give of myself and from here the relationship can grow. All the sympathy and kindness and understanding in the world doesn't do it for me as much as an unjudgemental acceptance and a clear expression of personal boundaries from my partner - I attempt to offer the same although it's a work in progress. That is what love is to me - unconditional being present without judgement - it sounds simple but I don't think it's easy to get there without really dealing with your own "stuff" whichever attachment style you have. o feel the exact same way, and i don’t feel crippled like i need support. Support is just letting me be me. I offer that in kind and if incompatibility arises then compromise is mutual. if not, i will resort to being happily me, in solitude  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 16:18:45 GMT
I do agree with you. May I ask what would you do in return for an understanding partner? i myself tend to gravitate to partners with similar needs so that there isn’t too much discord about it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 16:37:33 GMT
From reading on this forum, there are folks out there who are not avoidant, in relationships with avoidant individuals, who genuinely want to support and show compassion towards their partners. As an avoidant I find that kind of nurturing care really difficult to deal with - it smacks of control (even though I am sure that's not the intent) and is actually a real turn off, to me at least. Maybe I am just kind of wierd, but to me the biggest kind of support that someone could show is just being there - really being present and being able to stick with things so that I feel safe to be wierdly me. At this point i feel much more able to give of myself and from here the relationship can grow. All the sympathy and kindness and understanding in the world doesn't do it for me as much as an unjudgemental acceptance and a clear expression of personal boundaries from my partner - I attempt to offer the same although it's a work in progress. That is what love is to me - unconditional being present without judgement - it sounds simple but I don't think it's easy to get there without really dealing with your own "stuff" whichever attachment style you have. Also, i am not unhappy generally so for the most part i am peaceful with me, if my partner is peaceful with who i am and h feeling is mutual, the setbacks that come with triggers and acting out and subsequent repair have been ok to navigate, painful but leading to growth. My last DA partner and i grew so much in the year we were together. Ultimately external factors got the best of us but i can’t say we won’t get back together at a later time when that is more manageable. I forgive myself and others easily, and don’t have trouble admitting when i am ashamed of my behavior and asking for help. It feels like love and respect when i do that for my partner. And it is received as such, at least it was with him. it’s humbling but also cements trust. I don’t expect to ever be without conflict in a relationship but i know it is handled best when both of us come from a place of mutual respect and real acceptance and even delight in who the other is fundamentally. With my ex, I asked him, when he sees me start to spin and he can see i am drowning, please go out of your way to throw me a life preserver because an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure, and we can help each other like that. We agreed and it was special. The end was painful and complicated. I love him and also let him go and i feel peaceful, if we find our way back to each other i know for sure there will be growth on my end. |
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Post by yasmin on Jan 5, 2018 18:20:48 GMT
I remember really clearly a couple of relationships the last couple of years where the person wanted more from me that I was giving.
In one case, the guy was almost begging me or more: more attention, more commitment, more love, more consistency and it made me just feel disgusted and turned off. That sounds horrible but I am friends now with this guy (he's great as a friend) and he still says stuff like "we missed out on something great", when my perception was that I escaped from someone who was clingy and needy and would have made me suffocated and miserable. What was important is that it felt like it had nothing to do with me, or loving me or even liking me, and everything to do with him "needing" something, like I was a vessel to provide it for him and if he didn't swallow me up he would still be wanting. He now has a girlfriend who gives that to him and it's a much better fit!
In another relationship, he was less emotionally demanding (he was a Gemini ha ha) but he definitely wanted to marry me / get a permanent commitment from me and the truth was I didn't love him. I didn't feel disgusted because he didn't whine and manipulate and start arguments with me or threaten or criticise me, but I felt VERY sad about it and sorry that I didn't love him the way that he wanted me to because I cared about him and didn't want to hurt him or make him sad.
This is two situations where the person wanted more from me, and my reaction was different because the delivery was different. The reasons for the request were different. Both men wanted to be with me, both were frustrated about it but one was just kind of sad and frustrated and the other made it all about him and what he needed. Gimme gimme gimme, I need I need and this might be where that feeling of "control" and perception that someone wants to change you to fit whatever they need to fill the black hole in them.
It feels very nice when someone says they really like you, for you. Where they want you to be happy (even if not with them) and where they say "I really like you, but I don't need you" and I never mind people having boundaries with me (I don't want a doormat) but I don't like people making me feel like they love / need /adore me desperately in a way that doesn't feel authentic and feels more about them being needy than me being the person they like.
If someone gives me a little space, but also makes it really clear they like me then slowly I will let them in. It makes me feel free to choose, free to like or even love them without feeling like it comes with a contract you need to meet. In a way those relationships with control often feel really impersonal, like the person doesn't even really see or even like you, they just want something from you.
Love flows freely in both directions right?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 18:33:08 GMT
yasmin, you have said exactly how i feel about it also.
And i don’t want to change who i am personality wise or fundamentally. I am happy. If someone has a different vision or needs that’s totally good with me but i have no need to morph to fit it.
why would i? beyond mutual compromise that seems ridiculous and unnecessary to me!
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Post by yasmin on Jan 5, 2018 18:39:17 GMT
Yeah, I mean, I am happy to make changes in myself to make room for someone I love (natural give and take) but I guess I want to feel like they actually like me for who I am, and when someone demands massive changes in the way you relate / communicate / live and want to be then maybe they just don't really like you.
Truly being loved is I guess unconditional acceptance and someone just really liking most of the things about you, but definitely the fundamental essence of you. A lot of men have declared love for me but maybe only one or two (if any) have probably truly unconditionally accepted and seen me as I am.
A lot of relationships are transactional...like...gimme this and I give you that but the currency changes.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 18:44:03 GMT
honestly, i would do a lot to make my ex DA partner happy and content, it made me happy to do so.
He did ask for concessions.
But that’s all within the framework of having enough similarity to make compatibility easy and natural.
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Post by yasmin on Jan 5, 2018 18:45:31 GMT
I'd also like to add that in my recent relationship with an FA for the first time, I was guilty at some points (even if only in my head mostly) of responding to his avoidance with the gimme gimme gimme feeling and it felt horrible and totally out of my control. It was my first experience of being "clingy" or "needy" and it came about because for the first time I was dating someone who was avoidant.
It was EXTREMELY difficult to take a mental step back from that and see that my feelings weren't about him but about some need in me for him to tell me I was good enough. If he was to respond to me, come closer, decide he wanted to be with me that it had to be HIS choice not something I manipulated or orchestrated. If it came any other way than freely, then it didn't count.
As soon as I really felt that (not just pretended to) I was able to loosen up, be myself and allow him the unconditional acceptance he wanted and then things between us miraculously got better. He sensed I was no longer trying to force him into commitment with subtle threats of losing me or manipulations (like anxious protect behaviours of ignoring him or not calling him back) and I just treated him like I liked him, honestly, no agenda and things got better for him AND for me.
It's difficult sometimes though, he definitely triggers that part of me that can become really quite manipulative and it's so subtle that I genuinely don't even recognise it myself until after the fact and then I think, "whoah, chill out dude".
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 18:46:19 GMT
he once told me “you’re a handful, but i can handle you. ” i felt the same way about him. As i said, external issues that would be difficult for any couple were a factor, it wasn’t so much out attachemt. issues because that was improving and changing over time in terms of our ability to be our natural selves and work together with it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 10:34:26 GMT
I remember really clearly a couple of relationships the last couple of years where the person wanted more from me that I was giving. In one case, the guy was almost begging me or more: more attention, more commitment, more love, more consistency and it made me just feel disgusted and turned off. That sounds horrible but I am friends now with this guy (he's great as a friend) and he still says stuff like "we missed out on something great", when my perception was that I escaped from someone who was clingy and needy and would have made me suffocated and miserable. What was important is that it felt like it had nothing to do with me, or loving me or even liking me, and everything to do with him "needing" something, like I was a vessel to provide it for him and if he didn't swallow me up he would still be wanting. He now has a girlfriend who gives that to him and it's a much better fit! In another relationship, he was less emotionally demanding (he was a Gemini ha ha) but he definitely wanted to marry me / get a permanent commitment from me and the truth was I didn't love him. I didn't feel disgusted because he didn't whine and manipulate and start arguments with me or threaten or criticise me, but I felt VERY sad about it and sorry that I didn't love him the way that he wanted me to because I cared about him and didn't want to hurt him or make him sad. This is two situations where the person wanted more from me, and my reaction was different because the delivery was different. The reasons for the request were different. Both men wanted to be with me, both were frustrated about it but one was just kind of sad and frustrated and the other made it all about him and what he needed. Gimme gimme gimme, I need I need and this might be where that feeling of "control" and perception that someone wants to change you to fit whatever they need to fill the black hole in them. It feels very nice when someone says they really like you, for you. Where they want you to be happy (even if not with them) and where they say "I really like you, but I don't need you" and I never mind people having boundaries with me (I don't want a doormat) but I don't like people making me feel like they love / need /adore me desperately in a way that doesn't feel authentic and feels more about them being needy than me being the person they like. If someone gives me a little space, but also makes it really clear they like me then slowly I will let them in. It makes me feel free to choose, free to like or even love them without feeling like it comes with a contract you need to meet. In a way those relationships with control often feel really impersonal, like the person doesn't even really see or even like you, they just want something from you. Love flows freely in both directions right? Thanks for this - very useful. I’m anxious attached and I think we all want exactly the same - to be loved exactly the way we are. I’m curious when you said you need a little space, what does “little” mean? And what does it look like for you when you say unconditional acceptance of you for who you are? |
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Post by scheme00 on Jan 12, 2018 18:30:10 GMT
I remember really clearly a couple of relationships the last couple of years where the person wanted more from me that I was giving. In one case, the guy was almost begging me or more: more attention, more commitment, more love, more consistency and it made me just feel disgusted and turned off. That sounds horrible but I am friends now with this guy (he's great as a friend) and he still says stuff like "we missed out on something great", when my perception was that I escaped from someone who was clingy and needy and would have made me suffocated and miserable. What was important is that it felt like it had nothing to do with me, or loving me or even liking me, and everything to do with him "needing" something, like I was a vessel to provide it for him and if he didn't swallow me up he would still be wanting. He now has a girlfriend who gives that to him and it's a much better fit! In another relationship, he was less emotionally demanding (he was a Gemini ha ha) but he definitely wanted to marry me / get a permanent commitment from me and the truth was I didn't love him. I didn't feel disgusted because he didn't whine and manipulate and start arguments with me or threaten or criticise me, but I felt VERY sad about it and sorry that I didn't love him the way that he wanted me to because I cared about him and didn't want to hurt him or make him sad. This is two situations where the person wanted more from me, and my reaction was different because the delivery was different. The reasons for the request were different. Both men wanted to be with me, both were frustrated about it but one was just kind of sad and frustrated and the other made it all about him and what he needed. Gimme gimme gimme, I need I need and this might be where that feeling of "control" and perception that someone wants to change you to fit whatever they need to fill the black hole in them. It feels very nice when someone says they really like you, for you. Where they want you to be happy (even if not with them) and where they say "I really like you, but I don't need you" and I never mind people having boundaries with me (I don't want a doormat) but I don't like people making me feel like they love / need /adore me desperately in a way that doesn't feel authentic and feels more about them being needy than me being the person they like. If someone gives me a little space, but also makes it really clear they like me then slowly I will let them in. It makes me feel free to choose, free to like or even love them without feeling like it comes with a contract you need to meet. In a way those relationships with control often feel really impersonal, like the person doesn't even really see or even like you, they just want something from you. Love flows freely in both directions right? Thanks for this - very useful. I’m anxious attached and I think we all want exactly the same - to be loved exactly the way we are. I’m curious when you said you need a little space, what does “little” mean? And what does it look like for you when you say unconditional acceptance of you for who you are? Wrong forum, this should be posted in the DA section, this section is for DA trying to get help. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 2:25:19 GMT
Thanks for this - very useful. I’m anxious attached and I think we all want exactly the same - to be loved exactly the way we are. I’m curious when you said you need a little space, what does “little” mean? And what does it look like for you when you say unconditional acceptance of you for who you are? Wrong forum, this should be posted in the DA section, this section is for DA trying to get help. Yup, sorry! I saw the other thread discussing this, and realised I was wrong tonput this here. Will move it. Thanks. |
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