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Post by yasmin on Jan 11, 2018 11:51:32 GMT
I know myself and others on the forum has some problems with their partner not wanting to put a label on the relationship and I'd love to talk about that and hear from people who've also experienced that as well as avoidants who can help to share if they find labels threatening and why.
Labels aren’t important really, I've not felt the need to "label" relationships before and they more or less have just become naturally with both people on the same page, but with my FA it's very important to him to use words in a way that limit his commitment and responsibility to me as if he is asserting him independence with the use of these labels; and the words and labels that he uses are often not really reflective (by dictionary definition) of what's actually the relationship. So it's almost like he demands that he calls an elephant a desk and I go along with the illusion.
When we first met, he called it ‘dating’ and said that he wanted to grow a relationship with me, take it slow, spend time together and let it grow, but it wasn’t really dating at all. He was mostly emotionally unavailable, he was dating and sleeping with multiple women and being evasive and we hardly spent any time together or actually went on dates. It was more like we had dinner and sex a couple of times and he felt like a stranger to me. So to me this felt nothing like "dating" which is the process where two people spend time together to assess potential for a relationship. To me this was actually casual sex, not dating. He was simply unwilling to call it casual sex.
At the time, I said to him "this is not dating, this is casual sex and I won't do it" but he was insistent it was dating but just a different approach and one he found "emotionally safe" for him and he became very anxious if I tried to lay out my boundaries on it. He was just not ready to interact with me on an emotional level at that time.
Now after splitting and getting back together many times and slowly growing a bond due to a strong attraction and a LOT of patience from me, we now have a very different relationship that he wants to call ‘friends’, but, again, it isn’t really friends. It’s us seeing each other or talking on the phone every day, sending "good morning" and "how was your day" and "goodnight" messages will kisses and providing emotional support to each other. He is literally always messaging me and wants to see me as much as possible. It's us spending time together on quite intimate and romantic date-like activities every week where we go to dinner or to the movies or we go shopping and hold hands and kiss, we are always acting in date-like ways and having date-like physical affection. We make future plans together for vacations and trips and we spend hours talking about our thoughts and feelings while covering each other in kisses and stroking each others hair. We are very close and kind to each other emotionally and we tell each other everything with no secrets and there is (at least now) exclusivity and we've finally met each other's families. the relationship is very passionate, I don't think we can be near each other without grinning and kissing and touching each other. Which is actually dating, not friends. Ironically, it’s closer to dating than actually dating him was. Ouch. 😩 My head hurts.
Now I would be happy to let this slide and just let it be, but I feel very much like the label (and enforcing it) is extremely important to him. For example if we go on a date, he texts me the next day to tell me he had a great time and how is my day going and he likes that we are 'just friends' but the chemistry is so strong that he finds it hard to enjoy time with me without it becoming romantic. So he says he wants to be 'just friends' but he finds it hard to just be that and he's lost in this personal battle over it.
Now the clear logic here is: you have a female 'friend', both of you find it hard not to touch and kiss and being together makes you both happy - congratulations, you're in a happy relationship and dating someone you really like. But for him this basic logic is impossible. He has to use words in this way to create a problem between us that doesn't exist. So he forces me into this dance of saying we are just friends when we're not. He just can't see it. If you ask him why he wants to be just friends with me, he'll say he's not sure it just doesn't feel quite right.
Now my quandary here is that I have a boundary for my own emotional wellbeing, which is that while I am investing time, affection, dates with someone there must be a clear statement from both sides of mutual respect and commitment. That's not to say I need future promises but I do need to know that the person isn't going to say to me that they met someone else and are 'dating' her, (I don't think he wants to date anyone else but I think he COULD because he likes to use this kind of thing for distancing) while I am being their 'friend' because clearly in all but name I am actually his girlfriend.
So I am now left with options:
1. Actually just be his 'friend' and cut out all romantic contact whatsoever
I have tried this and it is impossible....he just chases me more and is literally all over me, touching, kissing, saying he can't stand it.
2. Continue in a relationship where we are calling it 'friends' but are obviously boyfriend and girlfriend
Which I won't do as it puts me at risk of being disrespected / cheated on while he has a get out clause and it will make me anxious and change me into someone I don't like
3. Walk away
Which is what I have decided to do as 1 and 2 were not possible.
So a couple of days ago, after a particularly intimate date where we went to dinner and a movie and kept kissing and holding hands the entire time, then we went back to his place and cuddled, kissed and fooled around a little while talking about deep emotions and ideas - he texted me again in the morning to call us 'just friends'. Worth saying, I do not ask for the label - he enforces it as if he needs to do it. He said he really liked me as a friend and felt such strong attraction and chemistry too (what he always says) And I said to him that I felt we wanted different things and that we needed to say goodbye and have no contact because it was a messy situation.
He replied that he felt like I'd stabbed him in his heart, and I said I was sorry and that I'd miss him too. Now we're on no contact.
So obviously this man really, really cares for me and wants me in his life - I mean - he'd do anything for me and wants to spend all his time with me and talking to me but he just CANNOT either be my friend (and act like it) or be my boyfriend (and call it that) so he is offering me only option 2 which is not acceptable to me.
So here we are, and it feels frustrating and sad.
The healthy part of me says: If a guy wants to date you all the time, spend all his time with you, makes you his main priority, shares all his thoughts and feelings with you, tells you all the time how great he thinks you are, treats you better than any other woman and always wants to touch, kiss and be near you (and is happy to live without sex) then he's into you. Really into you. And this "friends" label is just down to some kind of fear or blockage in him.
The FA part of me says: If he is not willing to call you his girlfriend then it's because he thinks you're not good enough to be that, there is something missing in you that someone else 'better' has and he's going to meet her tomorrow and commit and treat her right.
What are the thoughts and input on this?
I feel pretty sad, and also angry at him that he'd rather let me disappear completely from his life than to be my friend OR my boyfriend and that he has to try and force me into this space where I am neither. It feels very much like that's all about getting his needs met without much interest in mine.
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 11, 2018 12:39:02 GMT
I think what you did was very brave and it was completely the right thing for you. I don't think this is just a label issue Yasmin. If it were, I think you could have worked around that...but there are control and boundary issues as well and those to me are the things you are struggling with. It is as if he doesn't want to have to compromise his needs at all...and that seems really childish....no matter if later he says "I couldn't resist you". It is as if he doesn't have to take any personal responsibility at all because he can just pin the lack of personal control on the fact that he just can't resist you. I think you have been very understanding of him and I see him responding to that in a positive way...but it is as if he lacks the ability within himself to meet you halfway and meeting halfway is important in relationships. I know others will post...good luck. You are a very strong person and you deserve someone who can mirror that strength so that you are not the one that is carrying the relationship.
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brie
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Post by brie on Jan 11, 2018 14:19:54 GMT
Good for you. At a certain point we all need to stand our ground in the face of fear in order to attain intimacy...I know you did.
If he can't face his fear of *admitting* to being in a relationship then he shouldn't receive all the benefits of one. I think sticking around when someone continues these kinds of distancing behaviors is codependent in that you are allowing them to receive connection (something every human needs) without being vulnerable (something every human also needs). In other words, you are preventing their emotional "rock bottom" where transformation happens.
Hopefully your absence will force him to go deep and make changes within in order to have a more satisfying life experience full of connection. Be proud of yourself for maintaining healthy boundaries - know the sort of growth you both need would never happen if you continued feeding his delusion.
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Post by summer on Jan 11, 2018 14:22:17 GMT
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Post by yasmin on Jan 11, 2018 16:36:42 GMT
Good for you. At a certain point we all need to stand our ground in the face of fear in order to attain intimacy...I know you did. If he can't face his fear of *admitting* to being in a relationship then he shouldn't receive all the benefits of one. I think sticking around when someone continues these kinds of distancing behaviors is codependent in that you are allowing them to receive connection (something every human needs) without being vulnerable (something every human also needs). In other words, you are preventing their emotional "rock bottom" where transformation happens. Hopefully your absence will force him to go deep and make changes within in order to have a more satisfying life experience full of connection. Be proud of yourself for maintaining healthy boundaries - know the sort of growth you both need would never happen if you continued feeding his delusion. Brie, thank you. This is exactly the kind of thing I needed to hear because it's logical sense and it's loving to both parties to call into the light the requirement for real vulnerability. I agree that if I had continued (even if emotionally I could have) then it would have fed his delusion. I think he will stop being unhappy when he reaches that rock bottom and knows that to have what he wants and needs, the vulnerability is the price. |
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Post by yasmin on Jan 11, 2018 16:40:05 GMT
Ugh. I think most women would hate being referred to as "just friends" by some guy they really liked and were going on dates and being physical with. I would find this completely deflating and emotionally confusing, to say the least. It's bothering you enough that you have broken up with him, and good for you! Remember about avoidants... they can only tolerate intimacy in relationships by creating their own "escape hatch" that serves to release the pressure of all that emotional closeness. I actually dated another avoidant (an FA) ten years ago, and he was recovering from a breakup with a woman he'd been with for four years, and who I think he really genuinely loved. He was very avoidant, but the way he managed to make his relationship with her work was for it to be an open relationship (I think she was also avoidant, as she was an enthusiastic supporter of this idea, and in fact she was the only one to ever act on it. He was faithful to her the entire four years. She had multiple other partners). The "open relationship" was his escape hatch, and was what allowed him to be with someone for so long. He was actually very devoted to this woman, and not interested in other partners (they lived together), but because he's avoidant, he couldn't handle the intimacy of being in a committed monogamous relationship. He needed to create the illusion of independence, and this was so important to him that he was willing to share his girlfriend with others, which I think actually caused him a lot of pain. But that's how crucial the escape hatch is to an avoidant. With yours, it appears that his escape hatch is currently maintaining the farce that you two are "just friends." This is just a distancing strategy. He is in a relationship with you, but uses the "just friends" nonsense to keep you at arm's length in his mind. Remember that independence and autonomy are crucial to avoidants. Even just the illusion of it is necessary to them. Your guy is doing this in a way that makes you feel disrespected, and I don't blame you for being pissed. He is being disrespectful. Telling a woman that you are pressing for emotional closeness and intimacy, that you are "just friends," is ridiculous and selfish behavior. If he truly wants to be "just friends" with you, then he shouldn't be all up in your Kool-Aid, kissing and making out with you and getting all steamy, while divulging all his secrets. Please. This is not how "friends" behave. His actions are actually very unfair to you, and your gut senses that, which is why you are so angry and unhappy with him. He is being manipulative of you in order to get his needs met. Your needs in this scenario apparently don't count. In the case of the FA I dated ten years ago, he created an escape hatch that worked for him AND his girlfriend. Their open relationship was not created at her expense, and nothing he did disrespected or manipulated her. Their arrangement worked for them. Your guy's escape hatch is being imposed on you, without your consent, in a way that is disrespectful of your feelings and needs. It's disrespectful of reality. If a relationship with an avoidant is going to work, you both have to negotiate a compromise, a way that allows them their escape hatch but that is respectful of both your needs. That is not what is happening in your situation, and I think you were right to walk away. Thanks so much for the validation and understanding why I am pissed. I know my own boundaries and there's things I am okay with -if he wants lots of space, if he pulls away sometimes, if he can't cope with my emotions or conflict - these are all things I am capable of allowing in the relationship without it affecting my general state of mind and overall mental well being. Dating someone who is pretending they are single is absolutely not something I can do. I know myself and it'd make me feel insecure and not good enough. Your point is exactly right - if he wanted to be 'just friends' with me then we would be exactly that. |
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Post by scheme00 on Jan 11, 2018 18:31:03 GMT
This brings back so many bad memories of my exDA. I tried to get the label too. She would tell others we "worked together" and would go out on "dates". I held my tongue until we went on vacation together and came back and she told a mutual coworker that I was the funniest "friend" she had (even though we were a couple and had passionate sex 6 times in 2 days.
I invited her to my house for a nice dinner and spring it on her. "So I know we haven't talked about this but I think you're great and I love spending time so i would like to be able to refer to you as my girlfriend. What do you think? Where are you at? I don't want you to feel pressured but I think we should discuss this." She squirmed like an insect! A few minutes later she agreed on the basis that nothing would change about how we were currently acting vs the new label. I made sure to reassure her that nothing would change, just ournlabel and that we don't date other people now. She left and I text my friends telling them I had a GF now. Amazing, right?!
So the next day she was radio silent. I knew it was because of our talks so I text her "you cool with our discussion?" She said she was having a hard time processing it and would discuss it further with me later that night and she would call me but had dinner with her friends. (Some male friends she was very vague about) She got drunk with them and never called me that night. My anxiety was through the roof, so I called her the next morning before work. She said labels made her uncomfortable but she really liked me and thought about me in a lot of situations and had gone back and forth in her head about being BF/GF. Sometimes she wanted a boyfriend and other times she didn't. So she asked it we could meet for dinner that night. We ended up going to dinner and having an amazing time, she agreed to being my girlfriend and said when all of her other relationships ended she didn't really feel anything but if we stopped dating she would be "really sad." I was so thrilled.
Anyway, even with the label she didn't tell any of her friends, co workers, etc that she was in a relationship. In fact all of her other guy friends (most want in her pants) would still ask her out on dinner dates etc and she would go with them. I finally had enough of her treating me like a last priority so I broke up with her. We've been NC for 2.5 months. I got the label I wanted from her but it didn't change anything except making me feel a sense of security for a few days. Then her behavior went back to normal and maybe even made her distance herself more.
I can't have a relationship like that. I'm not needy but I don't want to feel like I'm gum on the bottom of your shoe. I need a certain level of respect and a certain level of commitment and effort by my partner and she couldn't give it to me.
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 11, 2018 18:42:40 GMT
I have a friend who said she dated someone for 3 years and did not tell a single friend that she was in a relationship.
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Post by kelvain on Jan 11, 2018 21:14:49 GMT
This brings back so many bad memories of my exDA. I tried to get the label too. She would tell others we "worked together" and would go out on "dates". I held my tongue until we went on vacation together and came back and she told a mutual coworker that I was the funniest "friend" she had (even though we were a couple and had passionate sex 6 times in 2 days. I invited her to my house for a nice dinner and spring it on her. "So I know we haven't talked about this but I think you're great and I love spending time so i would like to be able to refer to you as my girlfriend. What do you think? Where are you at? I don't want you to feel pressured but I think we should discuss this." She squirmed like an insect! A few minutes later she agreed on the basis that nothing would change about how we were currently acting vs the new label. I made sure to reassure her that nothing would change, just ournlabel and that we don't date other people now. She left and I text my friends telling them I had a GF now. Amazing, right?! So the next day she was radio silent. I knew it was because of our talks so I text her "you cool with our discussion?" She said she was having a hard time processing it and would discuss it further with me later that night and she would call me but had dinner with her friends. (Some male friends she was very vague about) She got drunk with them and never called me that night. My anxiety was through the roof, so I called her the next morning before work. She said labels made her uncomfortable but she really liked me and thought about me in a lot of situations and had gone back and forth in her head about being BF/GF. Sometimes she wanted a boyfriend and other times she didn't. So she asked it we could meet for dinner that night. We ended up going to dinner and having an amazing time, she agreed to being my girlfriend and said when all of her other relationships ended she didn't really feel anything but if we stopped dating she would be "really sad." I was so thrilled. Anyway, even with the label she didn't tell any of her friends, co workers, etc that she was in a relationship. In fact all of her other guy friends (most want in her pants) would still ask her out on dinner dates etc and she would go with them. I finally had enough of her treating me like a last priority so I broke up with her. We've been NC for 2.5 months. I got the label I wanted from her but it didn't change anything except making me feel a sense of security for a few days. Then her behavior went back to normal and maybe even made her distance herself more. I can't have a relationship like that. I'm not needy but I don't want to feel like I'm gum on the bottom of your shoe. I need a certain level of respect and a certain level of commitment and effort by my partner and she couldn't give it to me. Although that sux major donkey b@lls, you rock! I have a lot of respect for what you did. I spent years as the gum on my DA's shoe and wish I had the guts you did. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 22:15:52 GMT
Wow...yasmin, this is unexpected as I thought you both got back together over the holidays and were quite contented together.
I'm personally not bothered by a lack of label as long as the relationship is going well - my inclination is for the chips to fall as they may. However, it's your guy who seems obsessed to remind you over and over that you're "friends". I dislike the term "friends with benefits" but it seems to be shaping up that way according to his narrative.
I don't know him personally so I can't say for sure but he doesn't seem respectful to the women he was seeing when he first started seeing you, and now this. I do think it is the right move on your part because first and foremost you must respect yourself and hold yourself high. You have standards and you are not afraid to communicate them to him, bravo.
However, what worries me is that you seem to be in love with him, and this might hurt you more than you're prepared for.
As an FA, perhaps you haven't raised this uncomfortable labeling habit with him? He might be clueless about how much it bothers you. Perhaps if he wants to talk to you again you can raise this without fear.
The two of us broke off while still a little in love with the exDA. It has been really difficult for me - lots of what ifs....
The difference is that my exDA has no problems calling me his girlfriend but he is also an outlier...extreme DA if ever there was one! If we could date weekly, with some communication in between dates, I will definitely stay with him.
One of the hardest things I have done is to ask myself WHY did I choose to be in a relationship with this DA? I wanted to be brutally honest about my own motives - is it because he's a "trophy partner" after the failure of my marriage? Is it because of the scarcity principle? Is it because after my marriage broke up, my career as a designer took a hiatus (my ex owns the company and keeps all the clients), and I wanted a stable partner to get through this period of limbo and fear?
However, I come back over and over again to one fundamental fact - he is a good-hearted guy despite his tough business persona, and there were moments he shared with me when I felt very touched, moved and I could feel deeply his sympathy for others, including those who sold their businesses to him due to their failure. We both shared such moments together in profound empathy. I think I can fall in love with him if I allow myself to.
I have hinted to him he needed to improve on his avoidance tendencies, but I believe after 2 divorces, he simply can't. He would have saved his marriages if he could. To be fair, what's good for the gander is also good for the goose, he is also entitled to ask me to change - to accept the arrangement he feels most comfortable with. I didn't feel that he disrespected me, or wanted an open relationship
So I have decided to let go, but also to bless him and genuinely wish him peace, happiness and love. There is no anger, rancor or regret, except regretting that it can't work without one of us making huge sacrifices.
I wonder if you have asked yourself why you wanted this relationship? Is it worth rescuing? If you like him at a deeper level, will you regret breaking up?
Otoh, if he is someone you're having a fling with, I think you can easily drop him. With your beauty and accomplishment, it is really easy to find a great guy.
You won't get to meet this great guy though, if this one remains in your emotional space.
So if you feel for this DA as deeply as I do for my ex, I'd really advise talking it out and stay open to the possibility of getting back together.
You have shown him that you are to be respected, that you have standards. If he is a gem, he will come back and offer you a "better deal". If you adore him for all the right reasons then go ahead and make this work because it can.
If you decide that he isn't worth fighting for then do the right thing and turn away truly, without looking back, cold turkey, No Contact, etc. Get him completely out of your headspace, don't waste a moment longer.
A great big ocean welcomes you with all its bounty - there are great guys out there but you've got to throw a lot of fish back into the water before you catch the right one.
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Post by yasmin on Jan 11, 2018 22:49:43 GMT
Wow...yasmin, this is unexpected as I thought you both got back together over the holidays and were quite contented together. I'm personally not bothered by a lack of label as long as the relationship is going well - my inclination is for the chips to fall as they may. However, it's your guy who seems obsessed to remind you over and over that you're "friends". I dislike the term "friends with benefits" but it seems to be shaping up that way according to his narrative. I don't know him personally so I can't say for sure but he doesn't seem respectful to the women he was seeing when he first started seeing you, and now this. I do think it is the right move on your part because first and foremost you must respect yourself and hold yourself high. You have standards and you are not afraid to communicate them to him, bravo. However, what worries me is that you seem to be in love with him, and this might hurt you more than you're prepared for. As an FA, perhaps you haven't raised this uncomfortable labeling habit with him? He might be clueless about how much it bothers you. Perhaps if he wants to talk to you again you can raise this without fear. The two of us broke off while still a little in love with the exDA. It has been really difficult for me - lots of what ifs.... The difference is that my exDA has no problems calling me his girlfriend but he is also an outlier...extreme DA if ever there was one! If we could date weekly, with some communication in between dates, I will definitely stay with him. One of the hardest things I have done is to ask myself WHY did I choose to be in a relationship with this DA? I wanted to be brutally honest about my own motives - is it because he's a "trophy partner" after the failure of my marriage? Is it because of the scarcity principle? Is it because after my marriage broke up, my career as a designer took a hiatus (my ex owns the company and keeps all the clients), and I wanted a stable partner to get through this period of limbo and fear? However, I come back over and over again to one fundamental fact - he is a good-hearted guy despite his tough business persona, and there were moments he shared with me when I felt very touched, moved and I could feel deeply his sympathy for others, including those who sold their businesses to him due to their failure. We both shared such moments together in profound empathy. I think I can fall in love with him if I allow myself to. I have hinted to him he needed to improve on his avoidance tendencies, but I believe after 2 divorces, he simply can't. He would have saved his marriages if he could. To be fair, what's good for the gander is also good for the goose, he is also entitled to ask me to change - to accept the arrangement he feels most comfortable with. I didn't feel that he disrespected me, or wanted an open relationship So I have decided to let go, but also to bless him and genuinely wish him peace, happiness and love. There is no anger, rancor or regret, except regretting that it can't work without one of us making huge sacrifices. I wonder if you have asked yourself why you wanted this relationship? Is it worth rescuing? If you like him at a deeper level, will you regret breaking up? Otoh, if he is someone you're having a fling with, I think you can easily drop him. With your beauty and accomplishment, it is really easy to find a great guy. You won't get to meet this great guy though, if this one remains in your emotional space. So if you feel for this DA as deeply as I do for my ex, I'd really advise talking it out and stay open to the possibility of getting back together. You have shown him that you are to be respected, that you have standards. If he is a gem, he will come back and offer you a "better deal". If you adore him for all the right reasons then go ahead and make this work because it can. If you decide that he isn't worth fighting for then do the right thing and turn away truly, without looking back, cold turkey, No Contact, etc. Get him completely out of your headspace, don't waste a moment longer. A great big ocean welcomes you with all its bounty - there are great guys out there but you've got to throw a lot of fish back into the water before you catch the right one. I thought things were great too - but isn't this the story of avoidant relationships! There is always a spanner being thrown in the works of an otherwise happy machine because the avoidant kind of doesn't want the happy machine. Yes, you have hit the nail on the head. I don't pressure him for labels (I don't require one and keep asking why he does) but he insists in giving them and this is his way of saying "you're not my girlfriend, even though you think you are". I don't care too much about him doing that (he acts like I am his girlfriend in every way) but then he is saying this as a disclaimer so he can behave in ways later on and then say, "but we're not a couple". He has to get that idea out of his head or we have no relationship and the only way for him to get the idea out of his head is to call me his girlfriend. This guy is not good at that. He has had no "girlfriend" for 5 years, and before that he had one for 22 years that he didn't marry. Imagine...22 years and he didn't marry her. I do love him, yes, very much - but I can't fix this and I can't offer him my commitment / time / investment if he is not giving it back. He is worth fighting for, yes, and I have been doing that but he;s not worth being unhappy for. If he comes back, then great, he has learned that if he wants me to be his girlfriend he has to be faithful / committed to it and that I will walk away if he mistreats me. If he doesn't come back then I'll be sad for both of us (very sad) but I can get through it and move on. My husband (who I was crazy about) passed away 5 years ago and I managed to get through that so I can get through this. I really do love this person, and we are so well suited and make each other so happy but life isn't always happy endings! Sometimes it's sad endings and then you go on and find something better. I think your most important relationship is with yourself and to be honest if I became his friend with benefits or whatever the heck else he wants from me that I wouldn't like myself very much. I think there's a 90% chance it;s completely over now, because I don't think there's any chance he will want to commit to this label but I knew that when I made the decision. I wasn't mean to him but I offered him friends or girlfriend and said no in betweens. If his fear or doubt is bigger than his love for me then we'd have been unhappy together anyway. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 23:56:30 GMT
Ack...so many red flags! 22 years together without a formal acknowledgment! I feel sorry for the poor woman. They can't change, and it really doesn't bode well for your relationship with him going forward, in whatever form he decides. I fear the risk of ending up empty handed after a couple more years are too high with this one.
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Post by yasmin on Jan 12, 2018 0:29:13 GMT
I think the 22 year relationship was case of his FA tendencies coming out in another way. This guy isn't a DA, he is FA so there's just as much anxiety as avoidance. In fact I'd not be surprised if his ex is DA from his description.
They got together when he was 18 so she was his first GF and he said it just never occurred to him to leave or cheat or do anything other than continue so I guess you'd say he was dependent on the security of the relationship rather than actually happy. I think she was his security and he didn't want to be alone and to him a commitment is 100% set in stone. His description of the relationship was that she never wanted to get married, they weren't particularly happy even at the start, they stayed together out of habit and he would have stayed until he died if she hadn't run off with the contractor (when she did he had a breakdown because his self esteem was destroyed). Although he was deeply unhappy with her and lonely in the relationship he was devastated by it being taken from him.
I think the relationship was deeply lacking in the basics of fun and affection. Without being graphic he said he had oral sex 1 time in 22 years so I think he was just locked into this half life without realising it wasn't happy and when she decided she was done, she took him to the cleaners financially as well. I think he pays her about $6000 a month. Crazy money and he ended up basically having what he'd devoted his life to stolen from him.
So I guess from his perspective, he has had one relationship in which he was pretty lonely but committed for life, only to be let down by the person he thought was his security. So abandoned I guess. He was very depressed after she split with him and then he discovered dating and he just approached it in a way where he didn't want to get emotionally close to anyone but just enjoy all the things he was missing (sex, attention, dates, sampling different women, ego boost after feeling so worthless). I think the womanising was just something he had to do, rather than who he wants to be.
With me, I think something different happened and he actually connected with me for the first time (maybe in his life) but I think because of his past and also his attachment style he approaches it with fear rather than joy. Instead of saying to himself "wow, I met this great person and I am happy lets see what happens" he talks himself out of the commitment because I guess to him that commitment represents bad stuff: loneliness, possible rejection, financial ruin, being tied down for life.
Other people can approach relationships on a day by day basis, but he only feels safe if he calls it temporary or has these get-our-clauses sewn into the contract so he doesn't feel like he can't change his mind. He needs to feel like he can change his mind.
So I think to be honest, the guy isn't great at relationships and is ultimately scared of committing again to the wrong person and feeling like he was stuck for life, so he avoids committing to anything now but he also deeply, deeply wants it and is very unhappy.
It's a sad situation! We are happy, we're right for each other but these issues need to be overcome.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 14:11:06 GMT
My ex, too, is haunted by his ex wife, the first wife wouldn't stop contacting him over one crisis after another. He felt his wives took him to the cleaners too, he paid a lump sum and also child support, etc. This is perhaps a good reason to be wary, and he's right to be careful. I've known women who view their men as meal tickets, looking to be spoiled, who declare that they're "princess" and deserve to be treated as one. However, I feel it's unfair for them to be wary of us without giving them cause for that. I paid the rent, food, bills, etc in my marriage, thinking I could make my NPD ex happier if he kept the majority share of profits to invest as he has much less than me, but of course it was disastrous. He never thanked me, or thought it was special. It is perplexing to my friends and close family members why I ended up with the short end of the stick in my relationships.  I'm done with men like that too, which is why I'd rather be alone than to be with an unsuitable partner. The only thing left for me is to learn how to screen such men out quickly, before even dating. I feel like I wasted my time, about a year now. I wonder if it would be better to include description of such men in my dating profile? What would make men like that avoid contacting me? |
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damascena
New Member
pregnant, alone and deceived.
Posts: 40
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Post by damascena on Jan 15, 2018 19:46:20 GMT
The thing he is not really into you is he. I don't mean that he would necessarily behave differently with anyone else. He's just clearly not capable of a committed relationship, period.
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