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Post by kristyrose on Feb 1, 2018 0:28:09 GMT
Yes it should be the case, but that each person is able to draw conclusions on the nature of the relationship and BOTH parties boundaries are respected. The distinction is whether or not what you're saying is what you're actually also doing. For example: Perfectly healthy behavior to tell someone you want to be friends if that involves no romantic contact, activities and relations which would be accepted as platonic. Perfectly healthy to tell someone you want to be friends with benefits, if that involves sex, intimacy but no commitment or meeting the family Perfectly healthy to say you want to date if that involves romantic activities, intimacy etc. with a possible future. Sometimes though, words and labels don't accurately describe what is actually happening, which I don't think is a case of someone trying to force you to give something you don't want to give - but more them being upset that you won't acknowledge reality. I don't think the feelings of a person are an island, they draw on the actions and words of other people. For example Kristys boyfriend who called her a "friend" but behaved in every possible way as if he was in a relationship with her is quite painful behavior, if he wants to be friends he should say that, if he wants to be friends with benefits he should say that, if he wants to date her he should say that, etc. etc. In other words I am just saying I don't think using a word describes the significance and quality and actual meaning of the relationship better than the reality does (ie: the nature of the contact and the things you do together). This is what makes it “messy”, I think because people don’t develop romantic feelings for someone because they have a label of "dating". They develop romantic feelings for someone because they are acting and connecting in the ways people do during romantic connections and it's quite painful to confuse other people by calling something "friends" if that's not what it is. People should be really clear on these things and if FWB is what they want they have a responsibility to find a partner who is happy with that also - of which I am sure there are many to find. Yasmin, I always get some comfort reading your posts. I cannot tell you how much I agree about actions versus labels and the pain of someone denying reality all together. It was ONLY until I asked to call our relationship what it is, that he decided to insist it was a friendship the entire time, then announce he is ready to date! WTF times 1,0000!!!!! I realize I have to also understand my role and my AP tendencies, but this is just so F-in ridiculous that I also know that I can own my anger at both him and myself. I have to believe that they know to some extent how shitty this is to do to someone. It's not all semantics. Just because you call an apple a peach, doesnt make it so! |
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Post by yasmin on Feb 1, 2018 0:29:42 GMT
yasmin, try to meet more potential dates - that has been a great help to me to forget exDA. I'm going to meet someone who seems nice this Saturday. He has texted me everyday with friendly "Hellos...!" and will be driving 4.5 hours to my city. I don't know if it might work out, but it has helped tremendously. He isn't as accomplished as exDA but I think we will enjoy our date at the very least - he seems normal, no red flags....yet!  Hey Curious. Actually this morning I went on a breakfast date that was quite fun. It was with someone I already know and he's been asking for a while. It was fun and distracting and casual. I am busy with work right now so not much time but I do intend to go back to dating right away as I feel like I have been in limbo with this guy for months and months and don't feel like I need to recover from anything as the relationship itself was more painful than the relationship being over! I feel pretty fine today actually! I was very upset and shaken for a couple of days and now I just feel a bit detached from it and like it's not my problem / someone else's BS and I shook it off. No desire to talk to him at all, although he keeps on trying to talk to me!!!! I know he will take the loss harder than I will, because he was getting everything he wanted from the situation and I wasn't. I had less to lose. I am a pretty pragmatic person when it comes to breakups and don't really get anxious or anything like that. I usually just cry for a bit, feel sad maybe and then snap out of it. I usually only feel sad for a long time if I feel it was my fault and I did something wrong, or if the relationship was wonderful and I really miss the person. But if the person rejected me or acted like a douche then I usually just shake it off thankfully. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 0:33:51 GMT
Seemingly posting at the same time. Men try for sex regardless. That’s a fact of life. You hold the power in that department. Is seeking new dates really the solution? I know that I will never work on this stuff if I’m involved in an intimate relationship. I’ll go round and round as I’ve done before. So even though I’m not sure I’m even at step 1, this is the opportunity to work on myself. Seeking new dates, or just having fun going out is the solution for SHIFTING away from current DA and DE (Dead End). It doesn't mean we will find the right person, but it will ensure we forget the wrong one.   |
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Post by yasmin on Feb 1, 2018 0:35:49 GMT
Seemingly posting at the same time. Men try for sex regardless. That’s a fact of life. You hold the power in that department. Is seeking new dates really the solution? I know that I will never work on this stuff if I’m involved in an intimate relationship. I’ll go round and round as I’ve done before. So even though I’m not sure I’m even at step 1, this is the opportunity to work on myself. Sure, men try for sex. I don't think you can go out on date like activities once or twice a week, call a girl every day and message her goodnight every night, share a lot of emotional intimacy with her, constantly kiss her and stroke her hair and cuddle up to her and hold her hand and then say you don't see the relationship as romantic. This is just dishonesty. Of course it's more than friendship, of course it's romantic. I am sure he doesn't go to the gym and hold hands with his friend in the locker room and stroke his hair. I'm not absolving myself from responsibility (I should have walked) but I also don't think you can say "boys will be boys". both parties have gotta grow up, present their boundaries, wishes and needs and if they don't gel - go find someone who wants what you want. If not, don't try and hoodwink and manipulate it out of someone who doesn't. It's actually incredibly difficult to reject affection, advances and intimacy from someone you're in love with but it should be pretty easy to have enough sense of personal responsibility to realise you're hurting another person. I can't imagine a situation where I'd be selfish enough to take a guy who was in love with me who I had no feelings for and tell him I wanted to be friends, act like his girlfriend for a months in every measurable way and then blame him for being so dumb. We're not animals. We don't prey on people who care about us surely. |
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Post by yasmin on Feb 1, 2018 0:40:27 GMT
Yes it should be the case, but that each person is able to draw conclusions on the nature of the relationship and BOTH parties boundaries are respected. The distinction is whether or not what you're saying is what you're actually also doing. For example: Perfectly healthy behavior to tell someone you want to be friends if that involves no romantic contact, activities and relations which would be accepted as platonic. Perfectly healthy to tell someone you want to be friends with benefits, if that involves sex, intimacy but no commitment or meeting the family Perfectly healthy to say you want to date if that involves romantic activities, intimacy etc. with a possible future. Sometimes though, words and labels don't accurately describe what is actually happening, which I don't think is a case of someone trying to force you to give something you don't want to give - but more them being upset that you won't acknowledge reality. I don't think the feelings of a person are an island, they draw on the actions and words of other people. For example Kristys boyfriend who called her a "friend" but behaved in every possible way as if he was in a relationship with her is quite painful behavior, if he wants to be friends he should say that, if he wants to be friends with benefits he should say that, if he wants to date her he should say that, etc. etc. In other words I am just saying I don't think using a word describes the significance and quality and actual meaning of the relationship better than the reality does (ie: the nature of the contact and the things you do together). This is what makes it “messy”, I think because people don’t develop romantic feelings for someone because they have a label of "dating". They develop romantic feelings for someone because they are acting and connecting in the ways people do during romantic connections and it's quite painful to confuse other people by calling something "friends" if that's not what it is. People should be really clear on these things and if FWB is what they want they have a responsibility to find a partner who is happy with that also - of which I am sure there are many to find. Yasmin, I always get some comfort reading your posts. I cannot tell you how much I agree about actions versus labels and the pain of someone denying reality all together. It was ONLY until I asked to call our relationship what it is, that he decided to insist it was a friendship the entire time, then announce he is ready to date! WTF times 1,0000!!!!! I realize I have to also understand my role and my AP tendencies, but this is just so F-in ridiculous that I also know that I can own my anger at both him and myself. I have to believe that they know to some extent how shitty this is to do to someone. It's not all semantics. Just because you call an apple a peach, doesnt make it so! You have every right to be angry. Sure, like me, you should have walked away but it's very hard not to hope when someone's actions and words don't match up like that. It is a kind of gaslighting I think to try and mis-label like that. "But I thought we were just friends?". Of course, as you say, saying something is a peach doesn't make it so. I am sure if someone went into a store tomorrow to buy an iPhone they'd expect it to be an iPhone and not a Samsung. Words don't make something what it is. What it is is what makes it what it is. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 0:44:06 GMT
I hate to say this, but I'm going to. I have dated people for periods of time that may seem long for some people, but not me, 6 months or more and have called them my friend. Why? Because I am dating them and still deciding if I actually want to make them my boyfriend. We did couple things etc including sex, meeting friends and family etc. To me, it's the process of dating and I don't think this has to do with my avoidance. I like to really know someone before they are my bf. We will go on for some time in the dating process and they still do not hold the bf label.
If they ask me or push for a bf label. That is when I will really think about it and decide. The answer may be yes, it may be no. Yes, I have dated them, got to know them, did couple things and spent time with them, but ultimately I may not see them as a long term partner. It's not merely semantics. Sometimes you just don't know until you have spent the time together.
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Post by yasmin on Feb 1, 2018 0:50:20 GMT
As long as the other person is happy with what you're offering Mary then I don't think there's a problem.
Can I ask though what the issue is with the label? Why do you call it friends if that is not actually a description of what the relationship is? does it make you feel differently to call it dating?
In all my relationships before my FA we never labelled things at all...we just went out together and did stuff and then at some point we discussed exclusivity and things just progressed. I don't rememeber ever having a convo about labels before my FA came along and for him labels seemed VITAL and if he was ever pushed on them he got visibly anxious and very defensive.
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Post by kristyrose on Feb 1, 2018 0:51:17 GMT
I hate to say this, but I'm going to. I have dated people for periods of time that may seem long for some people, but not me, 6 months or more and have called them my friend. Why? Because I am dating them and still deciding if I actually want to make them my boyfriend. We did couple things etc including sex, meeting friends and family etc. To me, it's the process of dating and I don't think this has to do with my avoidance. I like to really know someone before they are my bf. We will go on for some time in the dating process and they still do not hold the bf label. If they ask me or push for a bf label. That is when I will really think about it and decide. The answer may be yes, it may be no. Yes, I have dated them, got to know them, did couple things and spent time with them, but ultimately I may not see them as a long term partner. It's not merely semantics. Sometimes you just don't know until you have spent the time together. Yeah and that does make sense to me. However, my ex and I never defined anything, just acted as the couple we once were- then when I called him out on hey, lets just acknowledge we are together, suddenly 9 months of dating after 2 years as a couple, became friendship. He wasn't even dating others! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 0:59:11 GMT
As long as the other person is happy with what you're offering Mary then I don't think there's a problem. Can I ask though what the issue is with the label? Why do you call it friends if that is not actually a description of what the relationship is? does it make you feel differently to call it dating? In all my relationships before my FA we never labelled things at all...we just went out together and did stuff and then at some point we discussed exclusivity and things just progressed. I don't rememeber ever having a convo about labels before my FA came along and for him labels seemed VITAL and if he was ever pushed on them he got visibly anxious and very defensive. It's just that I'm not going to call someone my bf unless I see a future with them. Until that time, they are a friend. I guess I could call them my dating friend? I'm just not sure what other word I would use. The bf label doesn't make me anxious. It just has a meaning for me and I'm not going to use it unless I mean it. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 1:04:14 GMT
I hate to say this, but I'm going to. I have dated people for periods of time that may seem long for some people, but not me, 6 months or more and have called them my friend. Why? Because I am dating them and still deciding if I actually want to make them my boyfriend. We did couple things etc including sex, meeting friends and family etc. To me, it's the process of dating and I don't think this has to do with my avoidance. I like to really know someone before they are my bf. We will go on for some time in the dating process and they still do not hold the bf label. If they ask me or push for a bf label. That is when I will really think about it and decide. The answer may be yes, it may be no. Yes, I have dated them, got to know them, did couple things and spent time with them, but ultimately I may not see them as a long term partner. It's not merely semantics. Sometimes you just don't know until you have spent the time together. Yeah and that does make sense to me. However, my ex and I never defined anything, just acted as the couple we once were- then when I called him out on hey, lets just acknowledge we are together, suddenly 9 months of dating after 2 years as a couple, became friendship. He wasn't even dating others! I do understand what you are saying and obviously I have no idea what he is thinking. I am just giving another perspective, because I can see that happening to me. I wasn't dating others as well and looking back, I can see them mistaking our friendship for more. Sure, it's something between platonic friendship and boyfriend, but I would have used the friend word as well, because I just don't have a word for the in between. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 1:04:43 GMT
I honestly believe that if the state of the relationship, whether the label is agreed on, makes you unhappy you owe it to yourself to walk away without looking back.
Be proud of your standards, stick to them and walk away with no regrets. Life is cyclical, it's as certain as the sun rises that you *will* meet someone else. You won't if you keep wasting your time on the wrong one.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 1:05:49 GMT
I honestly believe that if the state of the relationship, whether the label is agreed on, makes you unhappy you owe it to yourself to walk away without looking back. Be proud of your standards, stick to them and walk away with no regrets. Life is cyclical, it's as certain as the sun rises that you *will* meet someone else. You won't if you keep wasting your time on the wrong one. I couldn't agree more! |
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Post by yasmin on Feb 1, 2018 1:14:45 GMT
Yeah and that does make sense to me. However, my ex and I never defined anything, just acted as the couple we once were- then when I called him out on hey, lets just acknowledge we are together, suddenly 9 months of dating after 2 years as a couple, became friendship. He wasn't even dating others! I do understand what you are saying and obviously I have no idea what he is thinking. I am just giving another perspective, because I can see that happening to me. I wasn't dating others as well and looking back, I can see them mistaking our friendship for more. Sure, it's something between platonic friendship and boyfriend, but I would have used the friend word as well, because I just don't have a word for the in between. This helps, thanks Mary. So for you "dating / boyfriend" is some kind of statement that you want a long term relationship. I understand! I think this is the same with my FA. For me a boyfriend is just whoever I am steadily dating and it doesn't hold any meaning for me beyond being the most accurate word by dictionary to describe what he is. It's great to hear perspectives and helps me be less angry. thank you! |
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Post by yasmin on Feb 1, 2018 1:25:22 GMT
Dictionary:
girlfriend
noun
a person's regular female companion with whom they have a romantic or sexual relationship.
friend
noun
a person with whom one has a bond of mutual affection, typically one exclusive of sexual or family relations.
I think for me I like a spade to be called a spade or nothing at all. If someone is dating me and calling it "friends" then they can turn around at any moment and say they have another lover or they have a date and that is going to hurt me and I don't want to put my emotions or time into something if I don't feel our intentions are on the same page.
I think what my FA wants is to date me, yes, but also to date others. Perfectly understandable if, like Mary, he needs a long time to know what he wants and feels (and actually we have only been dating for about 2 months) but for me I prefer to know where I stand.
We just have a very mismatched view of dating and I am better with someone who shares mine.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 1:25:58 GMT
I do understand what you are saying and obviously I have no idea what he is thinking. I am just giving another perspective, because I can see that happening to me. I wasn't dating others as well and looking back, I can see them mistaking our friendship for more. Sure, it's something between platonic friendship and boyfriend, but I would have used the friend word as well, because I just don't have a word for the in between. This helps, thanks Mary. So for you "dating / boyfriend" is some kind of statement that you want a long term relationship. I understand! I think this is the same with my FA. For me a boyfriend is just whoever I am steadily dating and it doesn't hold any meaning for me beyond being the most accurate word by dictionary to describe what he is. It's great to hear perspectives and helps me be less angry. thank you! That is really interesting! Actually, my good friend (woman) who is FA holds the same definition as I do and actually hers goes one step further. He has to tell her first that he loves her, then she will decide if he is a boyfriend. I'm happy it helps you. I thought it might be taken as negative and its not my intention. I;m just hoping another perspective can spur some understanding. |
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