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Post by yasmin on Feb 1, 2018 1:27:33 GMT
This helps, thanks Mary. So for you "dating / boyfriend" is some kind of statement that you want a long term relationship. I understand! I think this is the same with my FA. For me a boyfriend is just whoever I am steadily dating and it doesn't hold any meaning for me beyond being the most accurate word by dictionary to describe what he is. It's great to hear perspectives and helps me be less angry. thank you! That is really interesting! Actually, my good friend (woman) who is FA holds the same definition as I do and actually hers goes one step further. He has to tell her first that he loves her, then she will decide if he is a boyfriend. I'm happy it helps you. I thought it might be taken as negative and its not my intention. I;m just hoping another perspective can spur some understanding. No, far from being negative it gives the other side of the coin which I think is incredibly helpful in dispelling pain and resentment! The other perspective is always the point where you start to find peace
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 1:30:19 GMT
Dictionary: girlfriend noun a person's regular female companion with whom they have a romantic or sexual relationship. friend noun a person with whom one has a bond of mutual affection, typically one exclusive of sexual or family relations. I think for me I like a spade to be called a spade or nothing at all. If someone is dating me and calling it "friends" then they can turn around at any moment and say they have another lover or they have a date and that is going to hurt me and I don't want to put my emotions or time into something if I don't feel our intentions are on the same page. I think what my FA wants is to date me, yes, but also to date others. Perfectly understandable if, like Mary, he needs a long time to know what he wants and feels (and actually we have only been dating for about 2 months) but for me I prefer to know where I stand. We just have a very mismatched view of dating and I am better with someone who shares mine. They should make a word for an in between, lol. Or maybe I just don't know what it is. I agree! You do have to date someone that is on the same page or close. I actually think , apart from any attachment issues, this happens a lot between men and women. I could be wrong, but I think men in general take longer to get to exclusivity than women. I have been told many times that "I think like a man".
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 1:35:40 GMT
For me, his request to keep the label "friend" is perfectly fine, but NOT the fact that he's sleeping and having sex with other women at the same time. That's a deal-breaker for me, even though "technically", he didn't do anything wrong but morally, I don't think that's "right" or "respectful". He's having his cake, brioche and croissant and eating them too. Icky!
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Post by yasmin on Feb 1, 2018 1:54:23 GMT
For me, his request to keep the label "friend" is perfectly fine, but NOT the fact that he's sleeping and having sex with other women at the same time. That's a deal-breaker for me, even though "technically", he didn't do anything wrong but morally, I don't think that's "right" or "respectful". He's having his cake, brioche and croissant and eating them too. Icky! Yes. Same for me. I don't care about labels! Unless they're used as a way of having sex with other people and not a dressing that this is painful.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 1:54:30 GMT
I just thought of this. Maybe I'm just messed up with definitions, because I say "girlfriend" all the time for my friends that are women.
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Post by yasmin on Feb 1, 2018 1:56:48 GMT
Dictionary: girlfriend noun a person's regular female companion with whom they have a romantic or sexual relationship. friend noun a person with whom one has a bond of mutual affection, typically one exclusive of sexual or family relations. I think for me I like a spade to be called a spade or nothing at all. If someone is dating me and calling it "friends" then they can turn around at any moment and say they have another lover or they have a date and that is going to hurt me and I don't want to put my emotions or time into something if I don't feel our intentions are on the same page. I think what my FA wants is to date me, yes, but also to date others. Perfectly understandable if, like Mary, he needs a long time to know what he wants and feels (and actually we have only been dating for about 2 months) but for me I prefer to know where I stand. We just have a very mismatched view of dating and I am better with someone who shares mine. They should make a word for an in between, lol. Or maybe I just don't know what it is. I agree! You do have to date someone that is on the same page or close. I actually think , apart from any attachment issues, this happens a lot between men and women. I could be wrong, but I think men in general take longer to get to exclusivity than women. I have been told many times that "I think like a man". Ha ha. I am FA and I know it's very hard for me to trust and feel comfortable in a new relationship. If I'm exclusive it makes me not anxious and I am a nicer person. I don't want a situation that will trigger me to be unhappy and bring out a clingy person because that's not me. I'm fairness from the day I met this guy our first conversation I said this so I do know my own needs and express them. We should really have never dated at all!
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Post by guest on Feb 1, 2018 3:34:59 GMT
My Avoidant liked the Term "Lover"
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Post by mrob on Feb 1, 2018 6:50:48 GMT
There are two people in any relationship, so two slants on reality. I told her that I was unable to give her what she wanted, which triggered the push/pull. I’d move away, she’d chase me, and all of the things spoken about here.
AI felt guilty that I couldn’t give her what she wanted, she’d say that wasn’t true, then wed see each other for a while, then we’d end up in an argument that I was doing one thing and saying another as in this thread. Over and over. I’ve gone NC now. It’s just not fair to either of us. I would hate to think she is holding a torch for me like some here. That is cruel.
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Post by yasmin on Feb 1, 2018 9:42:17 GMT
I just thought of this. Maybe I'm just messed up with definitions, because I say "girlfriend" all the time for my friends that are women. It sounds to me Mary, like the word was less important than the facts. Both you AND the guy understood - you were seeing each other in a romantic sense. I think when both people understand what is actually going on, things are fine. Very different in this situation for me. I have pages and pages of texts from the last couple of weeks describing what he'd like to do to me, how badly he wants me, how strongly he is attracted to me. ALWAYS him starting it. I have literally never seen him without him trying very hard to touch me, kiss me, pressing his hardness into me - and telling me how strong the chemistry was and how hard he was trying to fight it. Then I have a text from two days ago saying "I like being with you but I don't see our friendship as sexual". I don't think this is a "misunderstanding" as much as one person being just a little off the planet with the facts. I think this is why I was so shocked. If he'd said "I don't see a future". I'd have understood that, it would have correlated with reality, but for the guy I have spent months fighting off with a stick to say he didn't see it as sexual feels like he's taking me for a fool. The guy is just a little confusing, and it's not just the words. When we first dated, he said he was confused because he felt his lust for me was so strong and that it was pure physical chemistry that lacked emotional connection. Then the last few months, he said he was confused because he felt such a deep emotional connection to me and so much chemistry but he worried this wasn't enough Not he says he just sees me platonically with no chemistry or sexual element. This is within a week of him literally saying the total opposite. If someone had asked me to describe the relationship, it would have had intensely sexual at the top of the list. It's extremely so. I don't think it's as much as me wanting something he doesn't want to give as me not liking being bullshitted all the time. I am sure you didn't do that with your "friends" and make them feel totally baffled.
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Post by yasmin on Feb 1, 2018 9:45:31 GMT
There are two people in any relationship, so two slants on reality. I told her that I was unable to give her what she wanted, which triggered the push/pull. I’d move away, she’d chase me, and all of the things spoken about here. AI felt guilty that I couldn’t give her what she wanted, she’d say that wasn’t true, then wed see each other for a while, then we’d end up in an argument that I was doing one thing and saying another as in this thread. Over and over. I’ve gone NC now. It’s just not fair to either of us. I would hate to think she is holding a torch for me like some here. That is cruel. I have been telling him he can't have what he wants from me, and he's not able to accept it and move on. He is the one who chases me and always has. Situations aren't always the exact same, and it sounds like she is more AP. Remember I'm not anxious...if someone says they don't want to see me the last thing I am going to do is try and get into contact. I'll cut them off like they're dead.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 13:28:09 GMT
I just thought of this. Maybe I'm just messed up with definitions, because I say "girlfriend" all the time for my friends that are women. It sounds to me Mary, like the word was less important than the facts. Both you AND the guy understood - you were seeing each other in a romantic sense. I think when both people understand what is actually going on, things are fine. Very different in this situation for me. I have pages and pages of texts from the last couple of weeks describing what he'd like to do to me, how badly he wants me, how strongly he is attracted to me. ALWAYS him starting it. I have literally never seen him without him trying very hard to touch me, kiss me, pressing his hardness into me - and telling me how strong the chemistry was and how hard he was trying to fight it. Then I have a text from two days ago saying "I like being with you but I don't see our friendship as sexual". I don't think this is a "misunderstanding" as much as one person being just a little off the planet with the facts. I think this is why I was so shocked. If he'd said "I don't see a future". I'd have understood that, it would have correlated with reality, but for the guy I have spent months fighting off with a stick to say he didn't see it as sexual feels like he's taking me for a fool. The guy is just a little confusing, and it's not just the words. When we first dated, he said he was confused because he felt his lust for me was so strong and that it was pure physical chemistry that lacked emotional connection. Then the last few months, he said he was confused because he felt such a deep emotional connection to me and so much chemistry but he worried this wasn't enough Not he says he just sees me platonically with no chemistry or sexual element. This is within a week of him literally saying the total opposite. If someone had asked me to describe the relationship, it would have had intensely sexual at the top of the list. It's extremely so. I don't think it's as much as me wanting something he doesn't want to give as me not liking being bullshitted all the time. I am sure you didn't do that with your "friends" and make them feel totally baffled. It really sounds to me that he is confused about his own thoughts and feelings. Possibly so disconnected from himself that he doesn't know what he wants/needs. It's very unfortunate for you. Yes, I am much more clear and "stable". Maybe a difference with FA and DA is that I am able to "dismiss" a situation like you are in and something in you wants to keep trying?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 13:29:55 GMT
Seemingly posting at the same time. Men try for sex regardless. That’s a fact of life. You hold the power in that department. Is seeking new dates really the solution? I know that I will never work on this stuff if I’m involved in an intimate relationship. I’ll go round and round as I’ve done before. So even though I’m not sure I’m even at step 1, this is the opportunity to work on myself. I appreciate that you're telling it like it is, the hard truth. I don't know why but what you wrote seem to echo exDA I dated, even though he didn't say these same words to me. I feel like what you wrote reflects his thinking. So truthfully, are you in it with this former gf for the sex? What if she had refused? You would have moved on? Do you hope to meet another DA who only wants sex and nothing else? Is this the ideal for you? Apologies in advance for so many questions. And thank you for shedding a light onto this.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 13:34:58 GMT
There are two people in any relationship, so two slants on reality. I told her that I was unable to give her what she wanted, which triggered the push/pull. I’d move away, she’d chase me, and all of the things spoken about here. AI felt guilty that I couldn’t give her what she wanted, she’d say that wasn’t true, then wed see each other for a while, then we’d end up in an argument that I was doing one thing and saying another as in this thread. Over and over. I’ve gone NC now. It’s just not fair to either of us. I would hate to think she is holding a torch for me like some here. That is cruel. Yes, I see this as the typical AP/DA dance. Been there many times.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 13:43:25 GMT
I have been telling him he can't have what he wants from me, and he's not able to accept it and move on. He is the one who chases me and always has. Situations aren't always the exact same, and it sounds like she is more AP. Remember I'm not anxious...if someone says they don't want to see me the last thing I am going to do is try and get into contact. I'll cut them off like they're dead. After reading mrob's replies, it does struck me that I might have projected onto my exDA many qualities, akin to "filling" in the blanks according to my wishful thinking, even though it "seems" clear to me whatever he was hinting strongly at, especially at a future together, talk about traveling together, him moving to my city, etc. Yes, he said all these things, but what did he actually do? He didn't do any of it. He likely got cold feet just thinking about doing all these things, it probably made him feel suffocated. Unless it really, actually happened, we just have to take it with a large pinch of salt. We can give it labels like "future faking", but to him it might be a very different reality, he's just rolling some ideas around, what he thinks I want to hear to keep me, etc., nothing is concrete, none of it what he truly wants, deep inside. The only certainties are their actions. That's where we need to see not just the actions we want to see, eg their desire for us physically, but also their actions at distancing, in your case, infidelity, friendship label, etc. I have ignored the loud and clear message that he only wants a periodic "relationship", with little communication, plenty of distance, and no certainty. I've been placing my faith in his obvious lust, his appreciation of my intelligence, that we are a great match, his apparent happiness when he is with me, he hasn't found anyone he is as attracted to, etc. Yes, the messages contradict and co-exist, it is time that I recognize the former is equally or stronger than the latter. In the end, no matter how smitten they are by our physical and spiritual qualities, I now feel that it is completely replaceable by other experiences in their lives. My exDA can encounter another attractive woman and feel exactly the same pull. Ideally for him, she wants the same thing, a purely sexual relationship on his schedule. They are driven by a strong physical need that is undeniable, but not by a need for connection or intimacy. We're the opposite. I think if you can push this to a genuine friendzone, the outcome may be better. This is what I think I should do too, though we are now NC and might be for the foreseeable future. I've friendzoned many others before due to qualities that make it impossible for me to fall in love with them...it isn't so difficult once I let this unsuitable side of exDA truly sink in and psyche myself. What's holding me back is the me that wants someone like my exDA, but without the DA style. It's simply wishful thinking and unrealistic. What's more realistic is to accept that he IS DA, this is what he needs, what he can offer despite the contradictory messages, and it's not for me. What I'm finding is that there's still a lot in my life I would like to achieve, eg putting more focus back into building my career, my children's adolescence, and getting to know more people, especially learning about types of men, how to spot red flags and build good boundaries with people, developing to become less introverted and socially awkward. There's a lot to do.
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Post by BreakingTheSpell on Feb 2, 2018 13:09:50 GMT
Dear yasmin, I came across an article, that I think may help you. It was very difficult to read for me because I could see some pattern I have done myself in the past. I hope all this work on myself, together with therapy, brings me to a better place. Sometimes I loose heart. www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/heres-why-i-keep-coming-back/
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