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Post by yasmin on Feb 20, 2018 18:30:58 GMT
I think "the one" is just an excuse not to give anyone a shot while conveniently blaming it on their shortcomings rather than your own.
Haha. He's not quite George Clooney but he's extremely wealthy. Which I guess is why these women tolerate being hookups
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Post by ocarina on Feb 20, 2018 18:43:32 GMT
Will comment more when not in the midst of work - but a few thoughts>>>> 1. I think a sense of kinship with a fellow avoidant - a sense of true understanding and real acceptance is certainly something that was really important in my last relationship - nobody else has ever "got" me and the feeling was mutual. My ex said it was like being by himself - and from him that was a compliment ha ha! I have never felt loved or understood in the way that I did in my last relationship where it was quite ok to be strange together.... 2.I think that relationships in their puerest form are all about being slapped awake - about having someone who will mirror the inside of your soul, show you the uncomfortable stuff - not make you feel good all the time, inspire you to examine your wounds and heal them yourself. Very often we are looking for someone to mend us, bring out the good in us or whatever - when maybe what we need is someone who will encourage us to look inwards at our own dysfunction and begin the painful process of digging it up, examining it and letting it go for good. That process can go both ways, as per the saying "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink". This gives someone the opportunity to either face what is causing them to continually be in unhappy relationships, or it can make them retreat even further into avoidance because they can't face the level of discomfort it brings. For those with an avoidant partner, I would suggest this reaction as a point to make a clear choice on if and how to proceed. Absolutely - the avoidance is in essence a way of never having to deal with discomfort - even noticing this and acknowledging it brings the discomfort to an even greater level. Hence the running from relationship to relationship, running when intimacy means your stuff is being triggered, hiding in work, alcohol or whatever else your poison. It's like tearing off the biggest band aid ever, very very slowly - takes some courage to even start. |
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Post by BreakingTheSpell on Feb 22, 2018 10:22:57 GMT
I went for a really long run today and was thinking about a few things and wanted to come back and type them. All a bit random and unconnected! 1. I was thinking about my relationship with FA, and how intimate and warm and close it feels and I was thinking about how I am not sure someone who had secure or AP attachment could acutally fully "get" me. They could be empathetic and provide to my needs better, but I don't think they could ever really GET the heart of who I am because they don't know how I feel, and maybe this is why in previous relationships I have always felt at least a little alone, unconnected or as if the person loved a 2D image of me instead of the full 3D picture. @tgat , ocarina , BreakingTheSpell , @mary - what do you think on this? 2. I was also thinking about the comparisons between how men treat me and react to me, and at the moment I have this one secure guy who's chasing after me and providing various "services" to my ego (like chasing, consistency, flattery, validation) etc. and it occurs to me that these are the types of people I have always dated because they cater to the anxiety in me and provide me with a lot of adoration and validation. I have never loved an avoidant before because honestly, they did not out in enough work to get close to me. I was thinking about how painful dating an FA was in comparison, because he provided NONE of that and instead made me feel anxious and worried half the time. BUT on the other hand he catered to many of my emotional needs better than anyone else. So part of me is wondering if dating someone who "meets your needs" is ALWAYS the healthiest thing - because maybe some of your NEEDS are just....well...dysfunctional. Maybe it's better to date someone who slaps you awake and commands you to heal your wounds instead of perpetuating them? 3. I was also thinking about whether or not, if you're dating someone because they provide to your dysfunctional needs, that this isn't just codependence? I have felt extremely attached and "safe" with previous partners because they made me feel perfect / on a pedestal / adored and of course many of those were truly loving relationships but they were also ones where I was given a space where being my worst self was okay - and actually celebrated because they liked it and it fed their own dysfunctional needs. So I am thinking about how to find a relationship where I am expected to be my best self and I'm wondering how to do this. How to consciously shift this in myself. How to walk away from people who idolise me but don't TRULY see who I am (or care), and to find a space where I can find someone I can love in the same way I loved my FA, but obviously who chooses to love me back. I am wondering if that is even possible! 4. Not correlating with any of the above, I was thinking about what mrob said a lot when I was running and it made me feel sad. I think this is because mrob reminds me a lot of my ex FA who I miss and love. I am sure if he was posting here, he'd post a lot of the same things and the same words - which is probably why I've chewed your a$$ a few times mrob because I often take your posts personally because they remind me of my life and of someone I loved and believe loved me too but could just not get past his avoidance. Sometimes his words roll of the page here and I can see my ex FA talking and it's both nice and also difficult to read. I was thinking about how in many posts mrob likened love to being controlled, and mentioned maybe being "not that into" his ex girlfriend who wanted more from him but he just saw as a friend. Then by contrast I was posts later where he was sad about it and admitted she was the closest thing to intimacy he'd had and that he missed her. Not wanting to project at all because all situations are different, but I think my ex FA probably feels the same way and these cycles come and go. Like one minute he thinks "she's just my friend, she's not "the one", why is she trying to force me into what I don't want". Then other times, I think probably the block falls away and he feels sad and misses it and realises something isn't quite right but he just can't identify that the reason he feels that way is because he loves something that's gone. He has even said to me things like "sometimes I really want you and other times I don't" and "I want you so badly at times but then regret it afterwards", and it's like he is describing FA attachment in those sentences but can't see it at all. Which is frustrating for me. This all got me thinking that maybe in a way these boards provide us with a way to "speak" to our own SOs through others in a weird way and see things through their eyes in a way they can't express to us directly. Anyway, random running thoughts over! 1) Ask yourself how important it is that somebody really "gets you" vs somebody you can have a stable relationship with. Sure, AFs may understand the reasons of your heart because we have been there, but the fact that they know where you come from doesnt mean that they can be counted as a good match for you. In any case, empathy is big, which is what friends are for, but reliability may be weak. Not such a great partner after all, right? I think of ourselves FAs as a pendulum, coming back and forth from anxiety to avoidance, and our stay in a "secure" state lasts a heartbeat. That is why I consider a secure partner is our best choice, they are the flagpole when we fly in any direction. They should also be emotionally intelligent enough to distinguish when we are in an anxiety mood and when we are in an avoidant mood. An FA couldnt do that... even if aware, it takes soooo much self control not to be triggered. Two people with tendency to trigger each other any time in any direction... it sounds like dinamite to me. 2) It has been my experience that when somebody caters to your needs, even if they are dysfunctional, it is just a matter of time until your needs start being more rational and less unrealistic. That time window may be long enough to scare many people away though. In any case, somebody with a good amount of patience and will to stay by your side would be a good choice. The problem is, that a man like that, is often misjudged as "doormat" or not so masculine, because they are not aggressive in imposing their needs and control. I would say this is a misconception of empowered women, who need an "Alpha+" male to feel validated. Emotional strength is as valuable as any other kind of dominance, but we tend to miss it in the search for much tangible traits. Why do you need somebody to command you to heal your wounds? You know you have to heal them, you dont need anybody telling you to do so. If you wait for the command, you are putting yourself in a codependent place, where you are obeying somebody's elses request, instead of doing out of your own motivation. At the end, such a change doesnt last, because you did it for somebody else. 3) I feel you on this. I have also had people telling me "I love your temper". Ha. Ha. Ha. They loved how they felt when I was anxious and when I retreated to avoidant, the explosion, the claims, the jealousy, the anger, the silence treatment, the withdrawal. To love this is highly dysfunctional. They were just triggered and the highs and lows kept them hooked, and confused that with love. My two cents on your post. |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 22, 2018 10:52:16 GMT
1) I'm impressed by your level of awareness, BreakingTheSpell! Very astute observations you made here. They apply to other attachment styles I think. Also (some) DAs and APs have that need to be understood above all else, even before a stable relationship. I have the same issue. What's important is to feel supported in a relationship, even if the other person doesn't really understand where we come from. The need for being understood can be catered by friends, a therapist, or this forum. Secures are indeed the best candidates for all of us. 2) This resonated! "That time window may be long enough to scare many people away though." This is what I think I experienced recently. I was rejected by a date mainly because my needs seemed to be too much for her to handle. Someone with more patience would have been more able to handle it, and those dysfunctional needs would have become less extreme over time, given a healthy regulation by the partner. Yay to emotional strength! Even males suffer from the focus on being Alpha+. |
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Post by mrob on Mar 5, 2018 14:42:13 GMT
Alpha+. Omg. I tried that in my first marriage. Dreadful result. Not something I am, nor will ever be. In my 2nd marriage, I stepped back a bit and it ended up being seen by my ex wife as a sign of weakness. She wanted an equal, but I'd shrunk past that. In the last "not really a relationship but was" I assumed a whole different position, quite submissive and it was the most natural thing ever. It didn't mean I was lazy or uncaring, it just meant I could totally let go of the "man" thing and get on with it. The tender part of that is something I think I will forever miss. The other parts were just an oil and water mix for this avoidant!
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Post by brokenbiscuit on Jul 24, 2018 5:45:21 GMT
guys, i want to beencourage you. there is a feeling of empowerment i am experiencing, by seeing clearly how to take care of myself. he can be anything he wants, but not with me. he can have everything or nothing, but not with me. he can get his needs met, but not with me. my self esteem is soaring. we are not compatible because our values CLASH and it feels good to exercise the discipline of just saying NO. i can’t help but think that my reward will be a fulfilling relationship in the future. i won’t be caught up in these shenanigans and i will be available for it. i know it all takes time but there is reason to exercise the discipline and create your own better future!just sharing some of the positives. they are real! Hi just reading lots of threads trying to make sense of what the hell I've just experienced these 6mths with a man I now truly believe is FA. Like myself I don't think he is aware of why he behaves the way he does and the most he was able to say about himself was he has issues, and I must know that he can just take off one day. I really didn't know what to say at the time and felt a mixture of fear anger and sadness. He left me again for the 4th time in 6mths. This has been the longest apart, 4weeks. I don't know whether that's because I haven't begged him to come back or its because he doesn't want to just yet. We text everyday and the texts are oh so very NICE, nothing with emotion just very pleasant, which I kind of a head wreck and makes me want to scream at him and say, "do you have any passion inside of you", for goodness sake. "What are we doing hear just being nice when. You torn out my heart". The thing is guys is it worth me trying to bring up with him what I have found out about attachment styles to help him understand the things he does, or just leave him in the dark and carry on with the "nice" but void of anything real messages. We have never disgusts the break up it's the most surreal experience in all my 53yrs. I do think time and coming across this forum, is helping me heal slowly. Without this forum I probably would have just been trying to talk him into why coming back to me is a good idea. Now knowing what I have learnt about attachment styles over the last few weeks, that prospect scares me and saddens me as I am no longer ingnorant, to my attachment style and his and I know now we can never be and that breaks my heart. So going back a bit to what I said, should I try to introduce some of my new found knowledge on why we do the things we do, or just leave it, i just feel sad that all he is able to say is he has issues and ends up lost and alone again. I wanted to be more than just another failed relationship. I really don't know if telling him about attachment theory would help... It might! Or, it might freak him out. I really cant say One thing I am fairly confident though is self discovery. I was only able to learn about attachment theory by myself, after going through the pain of my own personal heartache. I had to want to find out why I did the things I did that were making me and my then gf unhappy. If someone else had given me that information in advance, I may have disregarded it, not taken it seriously, or taken it as a slight (oftentimes us men don't like to be seen as "weak", physically or mentally - we have egos and surface level appearances to maintain). I was only able to become aware by myself, by being honest with myself for the first time in my life. But, that's not to say bringing up attachment theory in a gentle manner may not work with your man if you feel he may be receptive to such ideas. Perhaps a gentle nudge in an email with a good article link and a "does this remind you of anyone?" message may prove a starting point to getting him to be more self reflective about his issues and his actions towards you . After all, what else have you got to lose? It's really your call to make I guess, as you know this guy more than any one of us here... If you don't think he will take it as a sleight, or in an offensive way, or it won't make him freak out a bit, then it could be the trigger he needs to start getting some help with himself and some reflection towards why he acts how he does. It may start giving him a little clarity towards things he has been thinking about in his own head that are so confusing he tries to not to acknowledge them (which is how I have acted internally for the last twenty years of my life). Good luck |
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