nic
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Post by nic on Mar 12, 2018 1:21:29 GMT
For those of you who are DA can you explain if you ever found yourself attached to an AP? How does that work when you know know you cant meet their needs?
When I was in DA mode I thought I wanted a relationship but whenever someone got too close or too demanding, questioning my lack of closeness I would bow out. It only seemed to keep going if I was with another distancer or a secure person. An AP would put me over the edge.
Now that im on the AP side with a DA who seems to be attached Im trying to understand. I am the one who keeps it going for sure, but when I have had enough of feeling unloved and undervalued I want nothing more than to end it. And I do.. only to get pulled back in.
Because I know what its like on the DA side, my demands are not all that they could be. I only ask for the minimum of what will allow me to continue. And Im never fully satisfied or at ease. I am constantly reminded of the fact that he doesnt want a relationship and never did. And when I give him the option to end it he never wants that. Its so confusing to me. Its not something I can relate to. To me you either want in or you want out. I know all too well that it hurts to end things but it will subside eventually. I dont know if the pain of the constant push pull ever will.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 1:34:03 GMT
i haven't been attached to AP, but i have been in bad relationships with them where neither one of us had any idea what we were doing.
so i can't speak to that.
But, i have experienced the dynamic you describe when i was involved with a narcissist.
he wasn't attached he wanted narcissistic supply in the form of sex and attention, plus all the nice things i did for him.
i listened to him talk about his life and problems, offered support because i'm good at that, and didn't make demands.
i found out a DA can be a good target for narcissists because we naturally can stick out a meager situation.
i too left repeatedly because i felt disrespected, used. i was disrespected and used. but i liked some things about it and was not done all the way so i kept letting us wiggle back together.
i finally did have enough tho, just got fed up with it all and blew up and walked away.
he was a covert narcissist and i don't hate him. i think he is very unhappy. i didn't see the signs until i was with him a while. it looked like DA to a point. but the lack of empathy for me, was the giveaway. i have lots of avoidant friends who aren't mean or disrespectful.
there is a difference.
just sharing this because i think sometimes DA and narcissistic gets conflated. sometimes the DA is actually a narc, is what i mean.
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nic
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Post by nic on Mar 12, 2018 2:01:42 GMT
i haven't been attached to AP, but i have been in bad relationships with them where neither one of us had any idea what we were doing. so i can't speak to that. But, i have experienced the dynamic you describe when i was involved with a narcissist. he wasn't attached he wanted narcissistic supply in the form of sex and attention, plus all the nice things i did for him. i listened to him talk about his life and problems, offered support because i'm good at that, and didn't make demands. i found out a DA can be a good target for narcissists because we naturally can stick out a meager situation. i too left repeatedly because i felt disrespected, used. i was disrespected and used. but i liked some things about it and was not done all the way so i kept letting us wiggle back together. i finally did have enough tho, just got fed up with it all and blew up and walked away. he was a covert narcissist and i don't hate him. i think he is very unhappy. i didn't see the signs until i was with him a while. it looked like DA to a point. but the lack of empathy for me, was the giveaway. i have lots of avoidant friends who aren't mean or disrespectful. there is a difference. just sharing this because i think sometimes DA and narcissistic gets conflated. sometimes the DA is actually a marc, is what i mean. I dont know a lot about narcissists so I looked this up. They sound like a scarry bunch to get involved with. Im glad you got away from that! No my guy is classic avoidant although capable of showing love its very limited and seems to be a pattern of once a week with some texting in between. I cant get it through to him that we can do small stuff in between or even in lieu of. It doesnt have to be this all night thing that he seems to have to mentally prepare for. I feel like I tax him of emotional energy even though im starving myself of what I ACTUALLY want. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 2:08:40 GMT
honestly, he wasn't scary.
he seemed a lot like an end of spectrum avoidant.
he was cuddly and affectionate also.
it gets pretty sketchy with labels and assumptions. but motive behind the actions becomes clear after a while.
anyway, it all comes down to what we decide to accept.
narc or No, I have learned not to settle for what doesn't suit me, and to walk when no compromise can be made. i hope your answers lead you to peace and contentment, or healing, or whatever it takes to get where you truly want to be.
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nic
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Post by nic on Mar 12, 2018 2:35:48 GMT
honestly, he wasn't scary. he seemed a lot like an end of spectrum avoidant. he was cuddly and affectionate also. it gets pretty sketchy with labels and assumptions. but motive behind the actions becomes clear after a while. anyway, it all comes down to what we decide to accept. narc or No, I have learned not to settle for what doesn't suit me, and to walk when no compromise can be made. i hope your answers lead you to peace and contentment, or healing, or whatever it takes to get where you truly want to be. Thank you. I am glad you reached that point. I hope to soon make a decision I can stick with too! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 2:47:00 GMT
honestly, he wasn't scary. he seemed a lot like an end of spectrum avoidant. he was cuddly and affectionate also. it gets pretty sketchy with labels and assumptions. but motive behind the actions becomes clear after a while. anyway, it all comes down to what we decide to accept. narc or No, I have learned not to settle for what doesn't suit me, and to walk when no compromise can be made. i hope your answers lead you to peace and contentment, or healing, or whatever it takes to get where you truly want to be. Thank you. I am glad you reached that point. I hope to soon make a decision I can stick with too! nic, it's hard sometimes to end a relationship that doesn't turn out the way you really hoped it would. i mean, i definitely have ended relationships with relief with no desire to go back, and moved on without difficulty. But i also have struggled to let go, with other relationships. as a matter of fact, the harder time i have letting go of something that makes me unhappy, i now understand, is the more dysfunctional i am in the attachment. when i struggle to let go of a situation that doesn't honor me, i am acting out of old beliefs. original fears, that i developed as a kid. there is some kind of emotional hook, something deep and unconscious, if i have a hard time letting go of dysfunction. it's like i am trying to fix something inside of me, with that person. it rarely happens. typically, if an involvement of any kind doesn't suit me i try a little compromise or negotiation and if it can't be what i need, or i can't be what the situation needs, i move on and go do what i really want, live and let live and be yourself is always best, is my typical M.O. the only times i had a heartbreak over a dysfunctional relationship is when it was triggering deep pain, because it was inflicting the same wounds on me that were inflicted when i was a kid. it's pretty deep stuff when we can't let go of misery. but if you can find out what it is that it really happening inside you then you can heal it. it won't hurt less to leave, but it won't be a waste and something good will come to you out of it. |
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nic
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Post by nic on Mar 13, 2018 2:57:42 GMT
Thank you. I am glad you reached that point. I hope to soon make a decision I can stick with too! nic, it's hard sometimes to end a relationship that doesn't turn out the way you really hoped it would. i mean, i definitely have ended relationships with relief with no desire to go back, and moved on without difficulty. But i also have struggled to let go, with other relationships. as a matter of fact, the harder time i have letting go of something that makes me unhappy, i now understand, is the more dysfunctional i am in the attachment. when i struggle to let go of a situation that doesn't honor me, i am acting out of old beliefs. original fears, that i developed as a kid. there is some kind of emotional hook, something deep and unconscious, if i have a hard time letting go of dysfunction. it's like i am trying to fix something inside of me, with that person. it rarely happens. typically, if an involvement of any kind doesn't suit me i try a little compromise or negotiation and if it can't be what i need, or i can't be what the situation needs, i move on and go do what i really want, live and let live and be yourself is always best, is my typical M.O. the only times i had a heartbreak over a dysfunctional relationship is when it was triggering deep pain, because it was inflicting the same wounds on me that were inflicted when i was a kid. it's pretty deep stuff when we can't let go of misery. but if you can find out what it is that it really happening inside you then you can heal it. it won't hurt less to leave, but it won't be a waste and something good will come to you out of it. You are absolutely right about attachment and familiarity of the past. I definitely recognize it and know how this story goes already yet cling on to the glimpses of hope when he makes a true effort. If only the true effort werent so hard for him and sustainable. I try to do my part by trimming down on my needs but obviously it takes a toll. You know how this works. Both sides are stressed. Ughghgh.. Im so happy for you to have gotten to that place where you can fold even when you are attached because you know its the best thing you can do for yourself! I have not been in THIS place that im in, in a very long time. Ive dodged a lot of bullets and have ended things with others with the slightest sign of baggage. Still scratching my head why I let myself get hooked lol This shall pass. Eventually Ill get so fed up I cant take it anymore.. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 3:15:34 GMT
nic, it's hard sometimes to end a relationship that doesn't turn out the way you really hoped it would. i mean, i definitely have ended relationships with relief with no desire to go back, and moved on without difficulty. But i also have struggled to let go, with other relationships. as a matter of fact, the harder time i have letting go of something that makes me unhappy, i now understand, is the more dysfunctional i am in the attachment. when i struggle to let go of a situation that doesn't honor me, i am acting out of old beliefs. original fears, that i developed as a kid. there is some kind of emotional hook, something deep and unconscious, if i have a hard time letting go of dysfunction. it's like i am trying to fix something inside of me, with that person. it rarely happens. typically, if an involvement of any kind doesn't suit me i try a little compromise or negotiation and if it can't be what i need, or i can't be what the situation needs, i move on and go do what i really want, live and let live and be yourself is always best, is my typical M.O. the only times i had a heartbreak over a dysfunctional relationship is when it was triggering deep pain, because it was inflicting the same wounds on me that were inflicted when i was a kid. it's pretty deep stuff when we can't let go of misery. but if you can find out what it is that it really happening inside you then you can heal it. it won't hurt less to leave, but it won't be a waste and something good will come to you out of it. You are absolutely right about attachment and familiarity of the past. I definitely recognize it and know how this story goes already yet cling on to the glimpses of hope when he makes a true effort. If only the true effort werent so hard for him and sustainable. I try to do my part by trimming down on my needs but obviously it takes a toll. You know how this works. Both sides are stressed. Ughghgh.. Im so happy for you to have gotten to that place where you can fold even when you are attached because you know its the best thing you can do for yourself! I have not been in THIS place that im in, in a very long time. Ive dodged a lot of bullets and have ended things with others with the slightest sign of baggage. Still scratching my head why I let myself get hooked lol This shall pass. Eventually Ill get so fed up I cant take it anymore.. , i have been there. a deep, aching, very real attachment. very hard for me when i look back, and see the reality of who i was attached to. i realized that he was both of my parents combined- and it is so weird how i morphed like i never have. not my typical self. i believe in my case it was because i was weathering some pretty serious covert abuse tactics that fly under my radar because i am so used to them. over time i have had to fine tune my senses and listen to myself more. i am shocked at the whole thing, that relationship. it served a purpose and it's clear to me now. but it really shined a light on the darkest corners of my pain. so i still heal, going forward. i learn as i go. i have love and support in other, healthy relationships in my life. this intimate partner piece has mystified me. |
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Post by leavethelighton on Mar 18, 2018 0:06:15 GMT
For me, if I'm attracted to someone who is more DA than I am, it makes me go AP.
But if I attracted to someone more AP than I am, it makes me go more DA.
Anyway, I have been married 15 years and I suppose my spouse is somewhat AP and somewhat secure. Like my being more DA-ish probably makes her more AP-ish, but she also doesn't constantly ask me for what I can't give.
It's great for me because she has carried things in terms of the emotional labor and we both stayed committed, and 13 or 14 years into the relationship I stopped feeling like I had to keep one foot out the door. I wonder if I hadn't discovered all this emotional styles stuff if I'd still be feeling like I had to keep one foot out the door.
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nic
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Post by nic on Mar 18, 2018 2:15:44 GMT
For me, if I'm attracted to someone who is more DA than I am, it makes me go AP. But if I attracted to someone more AP than I am, it makes me go more DA. Anyway, I have been married 15 years and I suppose my spouse is somewhat AP and somewhat secure. Like my being more DA-ish probably makes her more AP-ish, but she also doesn't constantly ask me for what I can't give. It's great for me because she has carried things in terms of the emotional labor and we both stayed committed, and 13 or 14 years into the relationship I stopped feeling like I had to keep one foot out the door. I wonder if I hadn't discovered all this emotional styles stuff if I'd still be feeling like I had to keep one foot out the door. So you can relate to the flip flopping from DA to AP. Ive never experienced this before and while it's great to know that I can feel and give more love than I knew I could it comes with a heavy price. 13 to 14 years before you were comfortable enough to realize you're ok where you are? Im so glad you're there now. Thats a long battle. I could handle being with someone DAish in fact I prefer it. My guy is classic DA to the max. When I hear "I dont want a relationship" and I offer a "we dont have to do this" he never takes me up on it. I'm going to have to be the one to make the final call. Its sad that I know it can never work yet I cant seem to stop. Thanks for yuour insight! |
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nic
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Post by nic on Mar 21, 2018 23:26:15 GMT
Thank you. I am glad you reached that point. I hope to soon make a decision I can stick with too! nic, it's hard sometimes to end a relationship that doesn't turn out the way you really hoped it would. i mean, i definitely have ended relationships with relief with no desire to go back, and moved on without difficulty. But i also have struggled to let go, with other relationships. as a matter of fact, the harder time i have letting go of something that makes me unhappy, i now understand, is the more dysfunctional i am in the attachment. when i struggle to let go of a situation that doesn't honor me, i am acting out of old beliefs. original fears, that i developed as a kid. there is some kind of emotional hook, something deep and unconscious, if i have a hard time letting go of dysfunction. it's like i am trying to fix something inside of me, with that person. it rarely happens. typically, if an involvement of any kind doesn't suit me i try a little compromise or negotiation and if it can't be what i need, or i can't be what the situation needs, i move on and go do what i really want, live and let live and be yourself is always best, is my typical M.O. the only times i had a heartbreak over a dysfunctional relationship is when it was triggering deep pain, because it was inflicting the same wounds on me that were inflicted when i was a kid. it's pretty deep stuff when we can't let go of misery. but if you can find out what it is that it really happening inside you then you can heal it. it won't hurt less to leave, but it won't be a waste and something good will come to you out of it. @muppet I've been looking more into narcissists after some more explosive events have taken place including some really hurtful statements made and just looking back at everything that has transpired. I always looked at it from the perspective that he was struggling with meeting my needs and we had to figure out a balance but I never felt like I was asking for very much. A lot lot of things happened where it wasnt just me being anxious for no reason. I really feel like he always wanted me to feel like I didnt matter much. I could go into so many details but at this point I feel like I dont need any more validation that its just me over reacting. My perspective and feelings towards him are changing as I realize its all about him and there is no working towards a middle. Im kind of frozen. I dont even feel the need to have a conversation with him about it - just kind of stunned that I got lost in such a fog that I wouldnt even admit to my closest friends. This is the last thing that happened that made me realize just how twisted things really are.. I was approached by his ex (of 3yrs) whom ive never met at a basketball tournament over the weekend. She asked if we were together. I asked why she was asking if they are not together. She said she saw social media posts of us. I told her i was seeing him for a year and a half. Asked her if there is something i should know because i dont understand why she'd be concerned otherwise. She said there will always be something between them.. always. I actually didnt believe her at the time. He always said She was trying to get him back. Anyway.. i was going to call him on my way home. He was blowing my phone up and I was not answering with only 1% battery and surrounded by people. When i get in the car i have messages calling me all kinds of stupid btchs for believing her and he despises me right now and to not ever talk to him again.. dont call cause he wont answer and he's blocking me from everything. WOW!! Of course i call because this is crazy! How did this somehow get turned into being angry with me?? Deflecting I guess.. if hes angry with me I will defend myself instead of question him. It worked.. i tried talking to him and he got mad and said he couldn't talk he was in a terrible mood and hung up. I was deleted from all his social media too. The next day I wrote a desperate text about our different ways of communicating and we have to work with each other on that bladda bladda blah.. I love you and hope to hear from you sooner rather than later. I was excusing him for being DA (needing to distance when angry) and the fact that he was burying his father the next day. He texted back that were going to be ok and that he loves me..and hes just going through a lot. Anyway..in the last few days ive been reflecting on everything and realize its time. Whatever his issues, hes too hurtful for me. I will not reach out to him I have no desire to. I wish I could say he never will either. That would be too easy. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 2:49:27 GMT
nic, i'm sorry you've experienced this, it sounds so painful! I am sure it hurts to end things but so glad you know your line. Breakups are so hard. But so is being treated so badly. There's no excuse!
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nic
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Post by nic on Mar 22, 2018 3:18:57 GMT
nic, i'm sorry you've experienced this, it sounds so painful! I am sure it hurts to end things but so glad you know your line. Breakups are so hard. But so is being treated so badly. There's no excuse! Thanks Juniper. Ive been doing a whole lot of venting and sorting on here and it felt really crazy to complain and feel to much pain and not be able to take action. I guess its the scarcity effect. Not having felt a connection in a really long time made me hang on by a thread. And posting on the boards in here has been helpful. Not as "woe is me" but just to put it out there to someone even if I dont know them to say it out loud that this is whats been happening and what ive been accepting and how its making me feel. Because in "real life" I havent talked about it. I feel good about where im going but nervous about him contacting me. Ive let him reel me back in so many times. So that will be by next hurdle. Thanks for listening! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 3:57:51 GMT
nic, i'm sorry you've experienced this, it sounds so painful! I am sure it hurts to end things but so glad you know your line. Breakups are so hard. But so is being treated so badly. There's no excuse! Thanks Juniper. Ive been doing a whole lot of venting and sorting on here and it felt really crazy to complain and feel to much pain and not be able to take action. I guess its the scarcity effect. Not having felt a connection in a really long time made me hang on by a thread. And posting on the boards in here has been helpful. Not as "woe is me" but just to put it out there to someone even if I dont know them to say it out loud that this is whats been happening and what ive been accepting and how its making me feel. Because in "real life" I havent talked about it. I feel good about where im going but nervous about him contacting me. Ive let him reel me back in so many times. So that will be by next hurdle. Thanks for listening! i totally get it. and the forum is helpful for all of us i think. to sort it out and process what we need to. posting here helps keep me focused on my own recovery even though i'm not triggered. i want to be ready when i am to avoid hurting my partner. I'd say just stay close to all of your sources of recovery. Maybe he is more than DA- if he has narc tendency he will need to reel you in for supply. My ex never reeled me in when i left him... he just got sad. to me, treating me badly and then reeling me in with sweetness would be a major red flag. Like, how many times does it take you to get it right, buddy?! But i know it's tough to let go. It takes so much work, time alone doesn't do it! You'll keep growing. I saw your post on the other thread and was going to comment also- yes i think there is a tendency to enable and tolerate too much from a DA, i think that would be a natural Anxious tendency to put a partners needs above their own and suffer for it. And certainly a DA would go along with that. Not necessarily consciously or intentionally to hurt someone. But because we look out for our own interests as a survival thing. It's all messy. But don't tolerate being treated bad no matter what is causing it.  I'm glad you are sticking up for you. |
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nic
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Post by nic on Mar 22, 2018 13:59:00 GMT
Thanks Juniper. Ive been doing a whole lot of venting and sorting on here and it felt really crazy to complain and feel to much pain and not be able to take action. I guess its the scarcity effect. Not having felt a connection in a really long time made me hang on by a thread. And posting on the boards in here has been helpful. Not as "woe is me" but just to put it out there to someone even if I dont know them to say it out loud that this is whats been happening and what ive been accepting and how its making me feel. Because in "real life" I havent talked about it. I feel good about where im going but nervous about him contacting me. Ive let him reel me back in so many times. So that will be by next hurdle. Thanks for listening! i totally get it. and the forum is helpful for all of us i think. to sort it out and process what we need to. posting here helps keep me focused on my own recovery even though i'm not triggered. i want to be ready when i am to avoid hurting my partner. I'd say just stay close to all of your sources of recovery. Maybe he is more than DA- if he has narc tendency he will need to reel you in for supply. My ex never reeled me in when i left him... he just got sad. to me, treating me badly and then reeling me in with sweetness would be a major red flag. Like, how many times does it take you to get it right, buddy?! But i know it's tough to let go. It takes so much work, time alone doesn't do it! You'll keep growing. I saw your post on the other thread and was going to comment also- yes i think there is a tendency to enable and tolerate too much from a DA, i think that would be a natural Anxious tendency to put a partners needs above their own and suffer for it. And certainly a DA would go along with that. Not necessarily consciously or intentionally to hurt someone. But because we look out for our own interests as a survival thing. It's all messy. But don't tolerate being treated bad no matter what is causing it. I'm glad you are sticking up for you. I can see this forum being helpful through all stages.. While you're deep in it, while you're trying to break the cycle and while you're maintaining. Also to support and gain insight from others. Yeah I think there is more to it than just the DA stuff. I started a post a while back asking about experiences with DAs because mine kept coming back. Every time I was getting settled in and feeling good. It was like clockwork. A,s a former DA (before this mess im in now) id never experienced it. When I was done or someone else was done with me that was it. There was no manipulating my way back in..especially if I was the one being rejected. Anyway red flags yes.. bright neon red flags! |
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