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Post by explorer on Mar 18, 2018 22:15:54 GMT
Hello everyone!
I am very glad I came across this forum. It is probably the most valuable resource on different attachments that currently is available online, because it addresses so many aspects. I have known the attachment theory for many years but only recently after reading much more and thinking about my whole life, I realized and fully understood it. I am very impressed by how much knowledge and self-awareness members of this forum have.
Here is my recent story:
I met my boyfriend last September online. We met shortly after and started dating right away. He was very charming, attentive, smart, polite, very social, affectionate, and initiated fantastic dates. After three weeks in which we met several times (every time for 10-12 hours), he didn't call me for five days. I am a self-assessed anxious-preoccuppied (However, I always suffer silently, I never ask for anything, initiate anything, I almost never call or text men. Usually, I go with whatever is offered.) When I didn't hear from him for five days, I went panic and suffered tremendously. I was absolutely sure he decided not to continue. But I could not understand it because our last date was perfect. He seemed already having feelings for me. I decided to text him and prepared myself to hear his rejection. I thought it would be better then sitting in uncertainty. I texted him very casually. To my surprise, he responded right away and said he was busy and invited me right away for a date. We decided to meet in two days. Then later the same day, he called me and asked me if I could also meet the following day. We ended up meeting two days in a row and spending about 40 hours together. One day after, he called me and invited me to meet his parents. I was shocked. I met his parents and next two months were perfect. I met all his family members and all his business partners. He asked me to meet my son and my friends. Every week we spent at least three days and nights together. I went for dinner to his parents' house almost every week. However, I started to notice his dismissive-avoidant traits. He was very critical about everyone and was saying he was always right. Also, he became very critical of me. Couple times, he tried to pick up fights for no reasons. We didn't have a single conflict because I am a person with whom it's impossible to have conflicts. I always accommodate everybody's needs. I don't have conflicts with anyone in my life. Once, he said he is very moody person. Also, he started his other deactivating strategies such as talking about his ex-girlfriends, showing me his pictures and not talking to me for some time while we were together. (Once, in a cafe he even sat at another table.) However, he continued calling me all the time and spending a lot of time together. Then I found out he was going to Europe where he has relatives and where he goes quiet often. He was going for three weeks in January. He didn't tell me that, but his parents did. On Christmas Eve he came and cooked dinner for me and my son whom he met before. He always insisted on doing everything himself, never wanted me to pay for anything, do anything. Every time, I offered to help or do anything, I felt he didn't like it. I took him to the airport. He was weird on the way to the airport, didn't even want me to go with him to the airport building but just drop him off. He didn't want to take the salad I cooked for him.
He called me from the airplane and then from Europe on the first day. After, I only received two very short messages from him and then for two weeks nothing. I didn't text or call him because I know how avoidants need space. I suffered a lot but did nothing. I knew when he was coming back and I was waiting for him to call or text me, but he didn't. I couldn't take anymore and I sent him very casual text on the second day after his return. The same thing happened again like the first time. He responded right away by saying he is back and he would call me. He never said anything about why he didn't call. Then he called me next day and invited me again. He was again very loving, caring, and attentive person. We went to the previous schedule. In some ways, it even became better, I felt were becoming closer. We again spent a lot of time together. I was staying at his place three days per week. However, he sometimes again was very irritable, complaining about other people all the time and criticizing me for being too nice with people. He thinks people are bad. He was saying he would work on reforming me. Within a month, he decided to go to Europe again. It was strange, even his family members were surprised. I almost felt he was going to get away from me. Two weeks before his trip he yelled at me because I misunderstood on a phone what time we are going to another city. He said he wasted the whole day because of me and only gave me 15 minutes to get ready, which was impossible time because I was not home. I had to run the parking at my work and drive very fast to meet this requirement. When he came, he was very irritated and even yelled at somebody on a phone. I apologized for not understanding on the phone. However, while we were driving he became much better and we had fantastic day. He was very affectionate, kissing and hugging me all the time. Then the whole week he called me every day (which he didn't do before). I felt very calm because I felt we are becoming much closer. Then he had to go on a short trip and he called me several times. When he came back he called me three times and asked me to come. It was just before the Valentines' day. I spent a night in his house. Everything was great, but he was irritated in the morning with business related things and papers he had to file with the county. I went home and then expected to see him on Valentine's Day, but he only sent me short message. He seemed irritated. Then I have not heard anything from him for two days. His trip was in five days. I texted him asking him if he got the papers he needed. He said he did but needed to go back to the country to get more. That was the last time I heard from him. He left for his trip three days after this message. I didn't call or text him anything. He was supposed to be back form his trip one week ago. It was total of four weeks pf no contact.
My question is should I contact him as I did previous two times or should I continue waiting? He is very proud person with extremely high opinion of himself. He doesn't take any criticism at all. I don't know but he might be thinking I won't accept him if he texts or calls me. This month has been a living hell for me. I also think he might be a bipolar, but I am not sure.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 22:39:31 GMT
I'm DA and the only advice i have for anyone, no matter the attachment style, is that it's not good to put yourself in harms way emotionally or otherwise by elevating your partner's needs above your own.
As a side note, being a person who avoids conflict externally will lead to much internal conflict.
One of the most difficult things i witness here is people falling on a knife to give the DA the "space" they need.
You've got to consider what you need, and make decisions about that. So you can be happy. I see a lot of people trying to save relationships without being aware that they have to save themselves first. i still struggle with that too!
this is not a criticism at all. i am trying to encourage you to heal up the part of you that is ok with being treated poorly. If you weren't in pain, meeting this person where they are would be another matter.
But to suffer for him, i don't think you should. don't suffer for someone who hurts you.
as as far as how to get to a better place, i can't advise because my struggle is a little different. maybe the underlying issues are the same, but what works for me might not work for you.
anyway, i'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. i hope that this board helps you make progress in the direction that is good and right for you personally.
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Post by bedlam71 on Mar 18, 2018 23:23:02 GMT
I agree with Juniper. Make the decision based on wisdom and not emotion. Maintain your self-respect.
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Post by bedlam71 on Mar 18, 2018 23:24:13 GMT
As a side note, being a person who avoids conflict externally will lead to much internal conflict. Hey Juniper, Would you mind elaborating on this sentence? |
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Post by explorer on Mar 18, 2018 23:33:13 GMT
Thank you so much, Juniper, for taking time to read and respond to my post! After I posted it, I took online attachment test and to my surprise I am almost half anxious- preoccupied and half secured. Then I don't really want to know what it means to be 100% anxious:) It must be extremely difficult.
I actually don't have much internal conflict. I keep away from conflicts out of compassion. I believe in peace in relationship with people and try to see their sides. In relationship with this person, I was not bothered by his criticism. Sometimes, I even thought it was funny because it had nothing to do with the reality. I understood he suffered his own pain. My only problem with him is his sudden disappearing. I don't contact him out of respect and compassion. I know DA people get anxiety and feel suffocated from intimacy. I think he really had a lot of feelings for me. He has never been married but he wants to and he wants to have children (he is 55y.0.). He talked about it all the time. For me it doesn't matter at all. I only care about building a good relationship and understanding the person.
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 18, 2018 23:34:41 GMT
Welcome explorer......it seems that this man wants you to chase him, and he will respond well for a while, but then he starts to put his distancing strategies in place and your AP goes into high alert and he stops communicating...likely waiting for you to chase him again. There is a quote that says " We get what we tolerate" and unfortunately you are tolerating some very bad treatment from this man....you know it in your heart which is why you are here. And like most people, you want to understand him better....but this is where I agree wth Juniper...the focus needs to shift from him to you. Easier sad then done with an AP attachment style. I want you to know that his treatment of you is NOT a reflection on YOU. You are WORTHY of someone who cherishes you.....and you are trying to sustain yourself on breadcrumbs.....hoping that he will change...and he has already shown you that he cannot. I would not contact him if I were you.....I know that isn't necessarirly what you want to hear....but you deserve someone who will pursue you, cherish you and put your needs into consideration along with his own. I am sending you cyber hugs.
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 18, 2018 23:38:13 GMT
Thank you so much, Juniper, for taking time to read and respond to my post! After I posted it, I took online attachment test and to my surprise I am almost half anxious- preoccupied and half secured. Then I don't really want to know what it means to be 100% anxious:) It must be extremely difficult. I actually don't have much internal conflict. I keep away from conflicts out of compassion. I believe in peace in relationship with people and try to see their sides. In relationship with this person, I was not bothered by his criticism. Sometimes, I even thought it was funny because it had nothing to do with the reality. I understood he suffered his own pain. My only problem with him is his sudden disappearing. I don't contact him out of respect and compassion. I know DA people get anxiety and feel suffocated from intimacy. I think he really had a lot of feelings for me. He has never been married but he wants to and he wants to have children (he is 55y.0.). He talked about it all the time. For me it doesn't matter at all. I only care about building a good relationship and understanding the person. Honestly...depending on the relationship....I will test DA, AP/secure.....the point isn't the degree but how that individual person treats you and how it impacts your view of yourself. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2018 0:49:58 GMT
As a side note, being a person who avoids conflict externally will lead to much internal conflict. Hey Juniper, Would you mind elaborating on this sentence? here i am only referring to an insecure tendency to avoid asserting boundaries and/or needs and preferences to a partner in order to keep peace or avoid the possibility of those boundaries and needs/preferences being rejected. it may be painful to assert a boundary and then experience the violation of it. so sometimes people avoid asserting the boundary, leaving it unspoken. if the other party doesn't know about the boundary or need, then there is not the feeling of rejection and disappointment that would be experienced by a refusal to respect it. sometimes people sacrifice their needs in order to try to make another person happy in hopes that things will turn out how they hope. this can lead to a long painful relationship that causes pain and anxiety and emotional injury. there of course is a way to let ones boundaries and personal needs be known, in a way that respects the needs of the other. I imagine that a healthy and mutually beneficial relationship would offer compromise and negotiation to ensure that neither party is suffering due to the needs of the other taking priority. the internal conflict i am referring to is the pain of trying to make someone happy while making oneself miserable. unless one could say "i am hurting and anxious and unsatisfied and i like it and wish to continue this way indefinitely." , then, i imagine there must be an internal conflict. the conflict between "what's good for you - vs - what's good for me." a loving relationship, as far as i understand it, takes the good of each party into account. when two people assert their own boundaries and needs and values to each other, then the potential for conflict and disagreement arises. it seems to me that it is necessary to negotiate boundaries and needs between two people, in order for the relationship to be mutually satisfying and fair. If agreement cannot be reached then a parting of ways honors both. if an agreement cannot be reached and the relationship continues, someone will suffer. i don't know if i am expressing myself well here but that's what i can contribute, it may or may not be helpful. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2018 1:01:56 GMT
Thank you so much, Juniper, for taking time to read and respond to my post! After I posted it, I took online attachment test and to my surprise I am almost half anxious- preoccupied and half secured. Then I don't really want to know what it means to be 100% anxious:) It must be extremely difficult. I actually don't have much internal conflict. I keep away from conflicts out of compassion. I believe in peace in relationship with people and try to see their sides. In relationship with this person, I was not bothered by his criticism. Sometimes, I even thought it was funny because it had nothing to do with the reality. I understood he suffered his own pain. My only problem with him is his sudden disappearing. I don't contact him out of respect and compassion. I know DA people get anxiety and feel suffocated from intimacy. I think he really had a lot of feelings for me. He has never been married but he wants to and he wants to have children (he is 55y.0.). He talked about it all the time. For me it doesn't matter at all. I only care about building a good relationship and understanding the person. i'm sorry, i misunderstood and thought you were experiencing unhappiness because you mentioned that the last month was a living hell. Internal conflict that i am referring to is what's good for him vs what's good for you. if you are happy to continue accepting his behavior and only need to know how you can meet his needs, then yes i would say contact him and ask him what he would like from you while he is absent. that way you will have a clear answer about what he would like you to do for him and you won't have to wonder and possibly make a mistake that makes him feel unhappy. this is not advice i would give to a person looking for a mutually loving and respectful relationship, it is tailored to a revised understanding i now have that you are mostly concerned with meeting his needs. I will add that as an avoidant, if i am awol for a month i have no intention of building a meaningful relationship with a future. this behavior is not conducive to a relationship and is an avoidance of a relationship entirely. it's not a relationship with space. it's a non-relationship. that is only my opinion, i wouldn't be able to argue and prove it. it's my take, as a DA. we are all individuals so i can't speak for him. i probably should refrain from further comment to avoid complicating the issue, i don't understand the desire to be in such a relationship with this man, i'm sorry. i cannot be helpful with that. :/ |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2018 1:39:58 GMT
by the way i myself am working on offering help where i can without untintentionally hurting the person i am trying to render assistance to.
while i am trying to be genuine i am also trying not to be insensitive.
if i fail in that regard please help me understand because this is an area i would like to grow.
and accept my apologies in advance.
i do strive to be myself and have my particular voice to add but would like to make sure i am doing so in a caring and helpful way- one that feels caring and helpful to the listeners and not just to me.
i might as well be clear as i interact here, that this is a struggle i am addressing in the DA support forum.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2018 2:18:20 GMT
Welcome explorer......it seems that this man wants you to chase him, and he will respond well for a while, but then he starts to put his distancing strategies in place and your AP goes into high alert and he stops communicating...likely waiting for you to chase him again. There is a quote that says " We get what we tolerate" and unfortunately you are tolerating some very bad treatment from this man....you know it in your heart which is why you are here. And like most people, you want to understand him better....but this is where I agree wth Juniper...the focus needs to shift from him to you. Easier sad then done with an AP attachment style. I want you to know that his treatment of you is NOT a reflection on YOU. You are WORTHY of someone who cherishes you.....and you are trying to sustain yourself on breadcrumbs.....hoping that he will change...and he has already shown you that he cannot. I would not contact him if I were you.....I know that isn't necessarirly what you want to hear....but you deserve someone who will pursue you, cherish you and put your needs into consideration along with his own. I am sending you cyber hugs. i agree with this assesment and appreciate that it is coming from someone who can understand and sympathize with the more anxious attachment style. i would add in my awkward avoidant way that in nature, a relationship that benefits one participant while causing detriment or extracting something from the other is considered parasitic. Many dysfunctional relationships have a parasitic feel, where one partner is exploited for what they can offer. In some relationships, that is sex, attention, practical help, ego stroking, money, someone to control, etc. Partners with a low level or absence of empathy tend to be parasitic. i heard it said that the one partner least interested in the relationship has the most power. this is an idea worthy of contemplation. |
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Post by explorer on Mar 19, 2018 2:20:06 GMT
Thank you all for very helpful comments and suggestions! I have to say I am very impressed how attentively you all read and reread my post. I have very long history dealing with avoidants. My father is DA and I dated both DAs and FAs. My two close female friends are DAs. (My best friend for example did a lot of disappearing and hurtful things to me. Many people would say why didn't I walk away? It's not my philosophy. I believe everyone deserves acceptance and love.) I know very well it has nothing to do with me and I don't feel poorly of myself because of their distancing strategies. In the past, many years ago, I thought it was all about me, but I know now it has nothing to do with me. Because I have so much experience with avoidants, it is shockingly how all the patterns are similar and predictable. Sometimes, it feels it's the same person. I'm sure I am also extremely predictable  In this particular relationship, I am surprised with myself how I didn't see his avoidance right away, until he disappeared the second time. I almost felt I was not giving him too much before, because he wanted to spend so much together. I felt even guilty that I am not doing enough or not giving him enough time because I have a job and a business. That's why I was so shocked when he disappeared. I have no anger in my heart. I always felt and still feel he is a lonely soul who struggles a lot. He is very sad he never had a family. While I am not sure I want to get married again, but I thought I could give him love and compassion and make him happy. I don't see DA or FA behavior as a bad one. People act on how they feel. They don't want intentionally hurt anyone. Yes, I would like to reconnect with this person to see if we can work out. I don't think any avoidant person can really fill the needs of APs and even secure ones. I don't expect it. I have a big circle of friends and colleagues. |
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 19, 2018 2:31:57 GMT
While I am not sure I want to get married again, but I thought I could give him love and compassion and make him happy.
So you want to play a caregiver to this man? I don't get it.....you gave him love and compassion and he fled, returned and fled again.....but you are an adult. Just don't forget that he is one too, regardless of his wounding. Happiness is an inside job, you can't make someone else "happy".
I am curious if there isn't somehow a background tape that if you love him enough and are understanding enough (in a way that he hasn't received from anyone else) that he will then become more secure and be that man you see every few weeks...but permanantly.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2018 2:44:35 GMT
Thank you all for very helpful comments and suggestions! I have to say I am very impressed how attentively you all read and reread my post. I have very long history dealing with avoidants. My father is DA and I dated both DAs and FAs. My two close female friends are DAs. (My best friend for example did a lot of disappearing and hurtful things to me. Many people would say why didn't I walk away? It's not my philosophy. I believe everyone deserves acceptance and love.) I know very well it has nothing to do with me and I don't feel poorly of myself because of their distancing strategies. In the past, many years ago, I thought it was all about me, but I know now it has nothing to do with me. Because I have so much experience with avoidants, it is shockingly how all the patterns are similar and predictable. Sometimes, it feels it's the same person. I'm sure I am also extremely predictable In this particular relationship, I am surprised with myself how I didn't see his avoidance right away, until he disappeared the second time. I almost felt I was not giving him too much before, because he wanted to spend so much together. I felt even guilty that I am not doing enough or not giving him enough time because I have a job and a business. That's why I was so shocked when he disappeared. I have no anger in my heart. I always felt and still feel he is a lonely soul who struggles a lot. He is very sad he never had a family. While I am not sure I want to get married again, but I thought I could give him love and compassion and make him happy. I don't see DA or FA behavior as a bad one. People act on how they feel. They don't want intentionally hurt anyone. Yes, I would like to reconnect with this person to see if we can work out. I don't think any avoidant person can really fill the needs of APs and even secure ones. I don't expect it. I have a big circle of friends and colleagues. i am curious about this, please help me understand if you don't mind. i have only read one need expressed by you: the need to understand him so you can give him love and compassion. I find your statement about an avoidants inability to meet the need of an anxious or secure person incongruent with this. If your only need is to understand him, this is very easy. he's all good just the way it is, given his capacity for complaining and speaking negatively i feel certain he would let you know if he didn't feel understood or was unhappy. when he needs something other than your love and compassion, he will contact you and let you know. it may be a ride or something, it could be anything. in the meantime, he is asking for exactly all he needs from you, which is nothing. this is a very easy relationship if all that matters is his happiness, isn't it? assuming he is doing as he likes, that is? so are you not content to just feel love and compassion and wait for the next request? I missed any indication of any other need you have. do you have other needs for this relationship? i am trying to understand something i do not understand, is all. |
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Post by annieb on Mar 30, 2018 19:06:37 GMT
While I am not sure I want to get married again, but I thought I could give him love and compassion and make him happy. So you want to play a caregiver to this man? I don't get it.....you gave him love and compassion and he fled, returned and fled again.....but you are an adult. Just don't forget that he is one too, regardless of his wounding. Happiness is an inside job, you can't make someone else "happy". I am curious if there isn't somehow a background tape that if you love him enough and are understanding enough (in a way that he hasn't received from anyone else) that he will then become more secure and be that man you see every few weeks...but permanantly. We are always in this predicament and we don't realize it is very manipulative. We are in essence trying to change someone, thinking if we do this, we will get an outcome we want. You don't have to be a DA to hate this and us for it. It's not an attractive trait. I think we would get better response if we expressed our frustration and anger and broke up with these people. We often don't give ourselves a fraction of compassion we are willing to give these people and al it means is we think that by appeasing someone else, we will appease ourselves. We will not and we will be further discontented. |
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