joan
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Post by joan on Mar 26, 2018 0:32:03 GMT
This is my first time posting on here. I've found it comforting to read through these threads to know that I'm not alone. What I've been experiencing with the DA I'm involved with seems to follow the same patterns more or less.
We're not in an "official" relationship. Yet he treats me as his girlfriend and as if this is a relationship. Classic avoidant tendency from what I've been reading. When we first started dating it crushed me to hear him say he didn't want a relationship. However, I had just walked away from another possible DA and that experience told me to stick around and it would pay off. Why? With the first DA he said the same thing about not wanting a relationship. He kept his distance where he'd only see me twice a week on scheduled days and would only text, never phone calls. His reason for not wanting a relationship was he had other priorities. A girlfriend would be a distraction. There was a lot of push and pull and since I'd never experienced a relationship like that I was thoroughly confused yet determined to make it work.
To make a long story short, the game got too hurtful, too boring and redundant. I moved on, and when he sensed that he came on full force. Phone calls, requests for dates and to spend time together, roses sent to my office, and driving out of his way to come see me wherever I was if I agreed to see him. When he was trying to distance he gave all kinds of excuses as to why he felt the need to; busy, other priorities, he couldn't see a future with me. Yet when he was chasing me those were no longer a problem or factor.
Fast forward to my current DA. Same behavior, reasons and dynamic. Yet with him I was committed to sticking it out because of what happened with my last DA. I was sure if I hung in long enough, proved myself trustworthy and loyal he'd be this great guy that he is 50% of the time all the time. I knew with much heartache and the whole process of that I could get over him and move on. It was how I felt like the last DA turned around that I felt I could do the same with this current one.
Two and half years later we're still playing this game.
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Post by yasmin on Mar 26, 2018 19:46:04 GMT
I don't think sticking around and proving loyalty works  unfortunately certain people will only want you when they can't have you. |
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 27, 2018 1:48:28 GMT
I don't think sticking around and proving loyalty works unfortunately certain people will only want you when they can't have you. I think the right guy would absolutely appreciate yout loyalty....unfortunately....it doesn't seem the guy you are currently with is him....unless you want to,keep dancing with him (it takes 2 to tango). |
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joan
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Posts: 100
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Post by joan on Mar 27, 2018 4:15:36 GMT
I appreciate the responses, so thank you for the feedback! I'm truly coming to the conclusion that loyalty and trying hard doesn't work with everyone. He fits all the characteristics of an avoidant and I was hoping to gain some insight on his behaviors as well as my own so I could make it work. Unfortunately a DA and an AP's are completely opposite.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2018 14:20:04 GMT
it's my perspective that it isn't the DA behavior that keeps an AP hooked, it's the AP's own activated attachment system that drives their need to continue to participate in the painful dynamic of this partnership.
I don't intend to offer any insult or insensitivity here. i know that the push pull pattern is seductive and powerful. It's driven by deep dysfunction on both sides.
I believe a more secure person who is emotionally healthy and comfortable with emotional intimacy would not be sacrificing their well being to earn change from a dysfunctional partner. I believe they would recognize the limitations of their partner and accept them and move to select a more compatible partner.
I find this to be an empowering reality actually. If you can own your own condition, you can change it, by working on yourself.
Trying to elicit change from an unwilling or unaware partner is an exercise in futility that will deepen your existing wounds and perhaps inflict even more.
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Post by ulrike21 on Mar 28, 2018 5:01:10 GMT
I agree with Juniper. I have just had my first experience with a DA. Having not experienced such a relationship before, I was confused but trusting. His excuses for not wanting a relationship, not putting a label on it, not being available - all seemed valid so I stuck it out for 15 months.
But I was confused, conflicted, depressed and suffered cognizant dissonance for the last 6 months. Finally, after spending a beautiful night with him - and then not hearing from him for two weeks - I called it quits. I felt disrespected. That was the bottom line. If he couldn't act like a friend and decent person toward me, then I couldn't accept his behavior - no matter how wonderful he seemed and how much I desire him.
It is not easy but I am now 60! I can't keep waiting for a man to change.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 12:33:26 GMT
I agree with Juniper. I have just had my first experience with a DA. Having not experienced such a relationship before, I was confused but trusting. His excuses for not wanting a relationship, not putting a label on it, not being available - all seemed valid so I stuck it out for 15 months. But I was confused, conflicted, depressed and suffered cognizant dissonance for the last 6 months. Finally, after spending a beautiful night with him - and then not hearing from him for two weeks - I called it quits. I felt disrespected. That was the bottom line. If he couldn't act like a friend and decent person toward me, then I couldn't accept his behavior - no matter how wonderful he seemed and how much I desire him. It is not easy but I am now 60! I can't keep waiting for a man to change. i'm so sorry you experienced all that, and you're right. there is a bottom line, and it's RESPECT. It's confusing, all of it, and painful. But after suffering so much, it seems like the original person we were meant to be erupts and says NO MORE.... and it's this part of us that recognizes that we are WORTHY. That's the part that gets blocked out and pushed down by our attachment injury. When we are the ones to say NO, it ceases to matter quite as much what the other person is doing or not doing. Because we are taking our heart into our own hands. It's just a first step, but it's a tremendous step. Then, we grieve. If we are going to keep our original selves growing and strong we have to grieve the original injuries too. I think it’s easy to forget- an avoidant partner isn't just avoiding you. they are avoiding their original injuries- often compounded over years and years. It's not just one big event they can point to and say "That's what destroyed me." It's a long pattern in their formative years. Men in my culture are STILL not validated for going inward like that. Women, yes, heal all day long, we've got your back, gurl. But men? Still have to shut that down and get on with the business of being MEN. Real Men. No crying boys allowed. An avoidant who behaves so selfishly is shut down. Cut off from you, from intimacy. Still running! Perhaps the best he can do is save the world, but only You can save You. It's possible to be incredible , and incredibly wounded at the same time. I would say all of us are. We are couples and multidimensional. So, we just have to embrace ourselves and those around us who are ready to look inside to the pain, and reclaim our original trust, openness, and interconnectedness to those who care for us. Our injured partners who haven't awoken at all can't come with us down this path, but let's hope someday they can encounter healing also, for themselves. To reconcile to themselves. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 12:40:04 GMT
and i want to add-
the disappearing behavior.....
I am an avoidant, for sure.
but i for sure also won't tolerate someone disappearing on me.
An intimate encounter, (of any kind!!)
and then disappearing?
that's USING, it's disprespectful, and unacceptable.
If it happened once, it for damn sure won't happen again, because i'm done and the opportunity won't exist.
Don't put up with that from an avoidant.
that's not a misunderstanding or different needs or a personal weakness.
That's just wrong. It's intentional, and it's WRONG.
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Post by yasmin on Mar 28, 2018 19:29:42 GMT
I'm also avoidant and I don't disappear on people. It's a spectrum though, and some people have empathy more finely tuned than others. The important thing in all relationships is "does this relationship make me feel joyful, safe, excited, happy, warm, free to be myself?". If it doesn't have courage to walk away from it.
I think DAs make up 20% of the population and I am sure not all of them take delight in getting APs to chase them, although I am sure some do (even subconsciously) because they ultimately want love too and these dynamics can get quite sick and abusive at times.
The power is with you though, to say "this connection doesn't bring me joy" and if it doesn't walk away. I know how easy that is to say, but it is also possible to do it
xx
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 19:57:02 GMT
I'm also avoidant and I don't disappear on people. It's a spectrum though, and some people have empathy more finely tuned than others. The important thing in all relationships is "does this relationship make me feel joyful, safe, excited, happy, warm, free to be myself?". If it doesn't have courage to walk away from it. I think DAs make up 20% of the population and I am sure not all of them take delight in getting APs to chase them, although I am sure some do (even subconsciously) because they ultimately want love too and these dynamics can get quite sick and abusive at times. The power is with you though, to say "this connection doesn't bring me joy" and if it doesn't walk away. I know how easy that is to say, but it is also possible to do it xx yep!!!!!! When unaware , i got into a dynamic briefly with an anxious man and he would have done anything for me. I saw him try to chase me and i made excuses at first because i was so uncomfortable and not into him. Ultimately I got really clear and unambiguous with him because he would have held on even though i was not accepting further engagement. I never want to be involved carelessly like that again. I do have empathy. An unaware DA with very low empathy in intimate relationship could easily use and abuse and not even question it, i think. They wouldn't even realize the impact of their selfishness. Too self absorbed. Ugly but true and i am an advocate for taking good care of yourself with someone like that. Ageee with all yasmin said here. |
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Post by ulrike21 on Mar 29, 2018 15:20:48 GMT
"I am an avoidant, for sure.
but i for sure also won't tolerate someone disappearing on me.
An intimate encounter, (of any kind!!)
and then disappearing?
that's USING, it's disrespectful, and unacceptable.
If it happened once, it for damn sure won't happen again, because i'm done and the opportunity won't exist.
Don't put up with that from an avoidant.
that's not a misunderstanding or different needs or a personal weakness.
That's just wrong. It's intentional, and it's WRONG."
Thank you Juniper and Yasmin!
I was second guessing myself and thinking I had thrown the baby out with the bathwater! I felt disrespected but was still considering continuing with a situation that was making me depressed, in the hope that with time it would improve.
And because I didn't want to let go of him! But I realized that the more I allowed him to show no consideration for my feelings, the less he would have! Knowing that nothing he did would make me take a stance would ultimately cause him to have no respect for me and he would leave anyway.
I feel good about recognizing my own needs and backing away. I think he was surprised that I, 'called it'.
I am missing him though and ruminating constantly - hence why I am on here! I keep wondering if he is thinking about me!
He probably isn't though because he keeps himself so busy. He is on another medical mission in Haiti right now.
I find the advice from this forum to be eye opening and very empowering. Hearing from DA's themselves makes it very clear what is disrespectful behavior is and isn't. "Disrespectful, intentional and wrong!" Lightbulb moment!!! I love it!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2018 17:03:54 GMT
"I am an avoidant, for sure. but i for sure also won't tolerate someone disappearing on me. An intimate encounter, (of any kind!!) and then disappearing? that's USING, it's disrespectful, and unacceptable. If it happened once, it for damn sure won't happen again, because i'm done and the opportunity won't exist. Don't put up with that from an avoidant. that's not a misunderstanding or different needs or a personal weakness. That's just wrong. It's intentional, and it's WRONG." Thank you Juniper and Yasmin! I was second guessing myself and thinking I had thrown the baby out with the bathwater! I felt disrespected but was still considering continuing with a situation that was making me depressed, in the hope that with time it would improve. And because I didn't want to let go of him! But I realized that the more I allowed him to show no consideration for my feelings, the less he would have! Knowing that nothing he did would make me take a stance would ultimately cause him to have no respect for me and he would leave anyway. I feel good about recognizing my own needs and backing away. I think he was surprised that I, 'called it'. I am missing him though and ruminating constantly - hence why I am on here! I keep wondering if he is thinking about me! He probably isn't though because he keeps himself so busy. He is on another medical mission in Haiti right now. I find the advice from this forum to be eye opening and very empowering. Hearing from DA's themselves makes it very clear what is disrespectful behavior is and isn't. "Disrespectful, intentional and wrong!" Lightbulb moment!!! I love it!! [ i am happy that i could help you unpack that and get another perspective. it's helpful me to have the dialog also, as i am working daily on my own awareness and questioning my perspectives! I just wrote on the "Is this a DA thing" thread this morning, some further perspective on voicing needs. I will tag you if i get a chance. Thanks for sharing, too. I think we all just want to be happy and healthy, it can be rough finding the way there! |
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joan
Full Member
Posts: 100
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Post by joan on Apr 27, 2018 3:47:26 GMT
I agree with Juniper. I have just had my first experience with a DA. Having not experienced such a relationship before, I was confused but trusting. His excuses for not wanting a relationship, not putting a label on it, not being available - all seemed valid so I stuck it out for 15 months. But I was confused, conflicted, depressed and suffered cognizant dissonance for the last 6 months. Finally, after spending a beautiful night with him - and then not hearing from him for two weeks - I called it quits. I felt disrespected. That was the bottom line. If he couldn't act like a friend and decent person toward me, then I couldn't accept his behavior - no matter how wonderful he seemed and how much I desire him. It is not easy but I am now 60! I can't keep waiting for a man to change. i'm so sorry you experienced all that, and you're right. there is a bottom line, and it's RESPECT. It's confusing, all of it, and painful. But after suffering so much, it seems like the original person we were meant to be erupts and says NO MORE.... and it's this part of us that recognizes that we are WORTHY. That's the part that gets blocked out and pushed down by our attachment injury. When we are the ones to say NO, it ceases to matter quite as much what the other person is doing or not doing. Because we are taking our heart into our own hands. It's just a first step, but it's a tremendous step. Then, we grieve. If we are going to keep our original selves growing and strong we have to grieve the original injuries too. I think it’s easy to forget- an avoidant partner isn't just avoiding you. they are avoiding their original injuries- often compounded over years and years. It's not just one big event they can point to and say "That's what destroyed me." It's a long pattern in their formative years. Men in my culture are STILL not validated for going inward like that. Women, yes, heal all day long, we've got your back, gurl. But men? Still have to shut that down and get on with the business of being MEN. Real Men. No crying boys allowed. An avoidant who behaves so selfishly is shut down. Cut off from you, from intimacy. Still running! Perhaps the best he can do is save the world, but only You can save You. It's possible to be incredible , and incredibly wounded at the same time. I would say all of us are. We are couples and multidimensional. So, we just have to embrace ourselves and those around us who are ready to look inside to the pain, and reclaim our original trust, openness, and interconnectedness to those who care for us. Our injured partners who haven't awoken at all can't come with us down this path, but let's hope someday they can encounter healing also, for themselves. To reconcile to themselves. |
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Post by leavethelighton on Apr 29, 2018 0:03:18 GMT
The power is with you though, to say "this connection doesn't bring me joy" and if it doesn't walk away. I know how easy that is to say, but it is also possible to do it xx That sounds nice, but I also think no relationship on earth will always bring you joy. I just think if you're going to be with someone longterm, there will be ups and downs. So deciding to end if it if it isn't a constant joy-train ensures you will not be in any long-term relationships. Maybe that's an overly harsh way to put it, but it seems unrealistic. |
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Post by Jaeger on Apr 30, 2018 11:19:41 GMT
The power is with you though, to say "this connection doesn't bring me joy" and if it doesn't walk away. I know how easy that is to say, but it is also possible to do it xx That sounds nice, but I also think no relationship on earth will always bring you joy. I just think if you're going to be with someone longterm, there will be ups and downs. So deciding to end if it if it isn't a constant joy-train ensures you will not be in any long-term relationships. Maybe that's an overly harsh way to put it, but it seems unrealistic. Agreed, though I get the feeling not many people still view things this way. Your phone broke? Get a new one. PC not running as smoothly as you want? Get another. Relationship getting predictable and you have to work to make it better? Look for someone else, because if it takes work, it's not meant to be. I think a lot of people are going to end up very unhappy with mindsets like these. |
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unfortunately certain people will only want you when they can't have you.
