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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2016 17:00:59 GMT
Hmmmm, I don't see enough to where he would feel smothered. I personally don't think asking one question will do it either. For me, it was always repeated actions that made me feel smothered. The one thing that avoidants share is blaming or finding fault with their partner. Did he do this?
I think there was distancing, but secure people do this as well, it's just a conscious distancing for different reasons.
There are always misunderstandings. Once I had thought plans were solidified with my partner and he didn't show up. I took it as a bad sign as well. We later talked about it and he didn't understand at the time that they were definite plans and he got preoccupied with work and it just never came up again. It took a lot for him to convince me that it was just a mistake/miscommunication. We are all human and it was the only time it happened.
It could be that he is conflict avoidant, but not relationship avoidant. The once a week thing though does stick out. It's definitely something that needs more explanation. It's possible he didn't want to take time away from your kids and he thought he was being considerate. Then when you brought it up, it had become such a routine. Relationship patterns that are established over time can be difficult to break even without attachment issues. It's what people refer to as a rut.
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Post by trixie5179 on Oct 21, 2016 17:04:12 GMT
Hi Kristy,
I have my good days and bad, too. For me, it's been 2 months no contact since our breakup. I was so heartbroken especially because it was so sudden and it made me feel totally discarded and a bit deceived. I had been going along in our relationship thinking everything was fine and that he enjoyed spending time with me. We were falling for each other, so spending a lot of time together, for me, felt natural and exciting. We texted everyday, so losing that contact and friendship has been hard. I still also wonder if I should contact him, but I don't even know what I would say, or what my intentions would be. I hope that things would be different if we tried again, but have doubts they would be. I don't like the thought of him happier without me, but I know that it is emotionally easier for him. Hearing that from him would be painful, still.
Yes, I think that if you'd waited to ask him to see each other more it still would've triggered him. I second guess myself too, and wonder had I not seen my ex so often, would we still be together...I wonder had we not seen each other 3 days in a row those last days we were together, would our relationship had lasted? But I also stop and think about those questions and realize how neither of those are healthy reasons to dump someone suddenly, with no prior communication about there being issues. As my ex was breaking up with me I tried to compromise, and told him we could see each other less, no problem. He responded: "If we do start seeing each other less, we will still get to the point where you will want to see me more... And I just can't." He was at a loss. I didn't understand it at the time, but I think what he was saying actually meant "Where this is headed I cannot handle", and likely didn't just have to do with actual time spent together. It's about emotional energy, coping skills, stress management, the ability to see yourself as an intimate partner in a healthy relationship..or not. Kristy, maybe try to think of your breakup in this way, and not so much about what's on the surface (i.e., wanting to see him twice a week).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2016 19:58:46 GMT
Kristy, yes Hal Shorey is more positive. I have come across his writing before and it gives me hope. Also, when I read about the Strange Situation study, it was eye opening for me. The avoidant children would ignore their parents when reunited, but would play with strangers freely.
An excerpt from an article: Ainsworth's most famous experiment about this was done in 1969, and was called the Strange Situation. In it, parents were briefly separated from their children. Kids with secure attachments would become upset when their parents went away for brief episodes of three minutes, but be immediately soothed and go towards them when they came back. Some kids, though, couldn't be soothed, and kept wailing even if the parents came back; and others showed distress by ignoring their returned parents entirely and looking at other things. Those last two were anxious and avoidant, respectively.
The anxious and avoidant kids also had different relationships with strangers who were introduced into the scenario with and without the parent around. Secure kids were wary of them without their mom, but OK with them once the parent had returned; but the anxious ones would avoid them all the time, and the avoidant ones would play with them just as much as they did with their own parents.
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Post by Anais on Oct 22, 2016 0:25:30 GMT
I don't think I can handle being around my ex at the moment but I was hoping after time passes that I could speak with him again. I owe him money monthly for a contract that was under his name, but for the moment I had my close friend deal with it so that I wouldn't be further hurt.
Do you think it is possible if when I see him in a few months that he will be over the hurtful part of the relationship- he really blamed me and projected a lot of his insecurities on me.
I am interested in rekindling the relationship or at least clearing the air and become friends.. at the moment I still love him but who knows what will happen in six months
I also realize there is a chance he can meet someone new.
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Post by Jaeger on Oct 22, 2016 10:01:26 GMT
Hello Anais,
Sorry to see your thread got hijacked. Had to search for your comment here. I think what you label as 'getting through the hurtful part' is unlikely to be experienced the same way by an avoidant. Emotion is less of a factor for them and the odds are that his explanation for why things went wrong has been established in his mind as being mostly your fault. Be prepared for that outcome should you decide to engage in contact again. Also, be aware of the low odds of a different outcome since nothing significant will have changed. As said by a relationship therapist I consulted with my avoidant ex, most people with dismissive avoidand attachment styles will resist looking at their own part in problems, and even when they do, it is something that will only change with years of therapy and even then it's not a given that they will ever be able to bring to a relationship what you need to be truly happy.
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katy
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Post by katy on Oct 22, 2016 13:27:59 GMT
Jaeger,
I agree with your dose of reality - the probable long-term outlook for a successful relationship with an avoidant who has dumped you is very poor. Mary has been very helpful describing what normally goes on in an avoidant's thinking when they walk away from somebody - they have no intentions of rekindling any kind of relationship with the person whom they just left.
Most people who are dumped by an avoidant are in shock and desperately wish for things to go back to the way they were. They get hooked on the idea that their avoidant can and will return to being the nice person whom they were in the beginning of the relationship. This intense longing and hoping for a most likely impossible outcome can cause a person to have long-term problems which are very difficult to resolve including trauma bonds and even limerence. People can get hooked on making a rejecting avoidant love them, no matter what, and their lives can be very negatively impacted for years.
I think that quoting unknown avoidants and even finding some experts who, somehow, have gotten avoidants into therapy and who endorse techniques for reasoning with avoidants are just feeding the very strong, normally hopeless, longing to happily reconcile with an avoidant.
Most of the people on this forum who were rejected by an avoidant went through the early shock and longing and have read and studied enough to understand that the avoidant is not going to change and that you have to move on to more positive, caring people. It normally takes a while to really understand that avoidants mean what they say and that you are not going to rekindle a loving relationship with an avoidant who has rejected you.
This is a very sad truth to understand, but, a sadder truth is to stay hooked on an avoidant for years and ruin your life hoping and wishing that things can finally be right with an avoidant.
Katy
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Post by Kl on Oct 22, 2016 15:47:15 GMT
Anais,
Just curious why you chose a six months time span? That seems a little long to me and just wondering about it. Do you live in same town? I apologize if we got off the subject, but had same questions you did for Mary and am interested in hearing how it is going for you.
Trixie,
Thanks for sharing. It really helps to hear about your situation and how you're coping under similar circumstances and how you're doing. I wish you the best. It definitely is a painful thing to go through. Please keep me updated. Do you feel like you need closure? Have you thought of saying what Mary's partner did about time and space?
Mary,
Again, I appreciate all the information. That is really interesting about the children in the Strange Situation. Dr. Shorey's experience and knowledge is very enlightening and helpful.
I know my ex is avoidant. Still not sure, but thinking more fearful. He has a lot of general anxiety, but appears very confident outwardly and is very efficient and organized. He is a recovered alcoholic so has addiction issues. Had the childhood trauma which Dr. Shorey says is a key factor. He's definitely not as extreme on the spectrum, but as in Jeb's book, the reference to flying the fortress when intimacy gets too close really hit home with our situation, as well as what it sounds like in Trixie's. He is good at keeping up appearances, and interestingly, since you asked about fault finding, I was eating lunch with my good friend yesterday, who dates his roommate and best friend and practically lives there, and she asked why we broke up. She is just as puzzled. I said I really don't know but he said he couldn't give me the time I needed, but I felt like it was fear based to shut down and get so stressed the way he did. I asked her what reason he is giving, and she said he doesn't talk about it, says he likes to keep his private life private, but that he did say he was giving me time to get all my crap in order. That surprised me, cause that was so not what it was at the time, but feel like that's how he justifies it. I asked her what he meant and she said, getting the issues from divorce with your exhusband resolved and children worked out. This was interesting to me, cause a couple mos. before, my ex was spending night and exhusband texted last minute saying there was a situation and he had to drop kids off that night. My ex got so uncomfortable when I read that text, he wanted to leave. He said I could come over to his place later if he didn't show up, but I saw the flight response then. I was able to talk him into staying and ex husband ended up not dropping kids off, but the idea of confrontation of any type had him really stressed. Nothing ever came up about that again, there was never any issue so just thought it was interesting the excuses he gave. I feel like it was fault finding. In my mind, he got scared. We were getting too close and unconsciously panicked and flew the fortress, but I'm sure he doesn't see it like that.
Kristy
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Post by Anais on Oct 22, 2016 16:00:30 GMT
KI, The reason is because I am still emotionally fragile after 3 months... I don't think I want to talk to him without a clear head and strength inside of me to take his reaction to me. I do live in the same city but at the moment I am staying with my family in another country Jaeger & Katy, I think I just feel responsible for my needy behavior, actually I was the one who initiated the breakup but it was a situation where I felt more dumped than him. I could have dragged out the relationship longer but it would have been miserable for us both. Up until the moment I broke up he was saying how he loved me.. actually I wrote a post about him using my middle name Natalia jebkinnison.boards.net/thread/90/dismissive-avoidant-behavior I just realized that this post was so long and confusing that I decided to re ask in a very simple way. Maybe what I hope to achieve in 6 months is not a reconciliation but just a moment to show him that I am not the horrible person he made me out to be. thank you for your honest responses |
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Post by Anais on Oct 22, 2016 16:03:32 GMT
Also when we broke up I asked if we could try in 3 months and he said "no that's not enough time" and I asked if we could get back together someday in the future he responded with "that isnt something we can talk about now or in the near future, i don't know about the future" i told him "then we will never get back together" and he didn't say anything.
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katy
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Post by katy on Oct 22, 2016 17:06:13 GMT
Kristy,
I pray that someday you will be able to pull back from your obsession that this man is going to be a good long-term partner for you. Mary's long-term romance is a very rare occurrence and Mary has mentioned many times that she was involved in therapy as she has navigated her relationship.
I'm sure that you think that I'm horrible and mean and attempting to dash all of your hopes for a happy future. I'll just cite one fact in your posts which struck me. You said that you lived 1/2 mile from this man and he didn't even manage to see you every week if your work days were inconvenient for his schedule. If he had wanted to see you more often, you each could have left your houses, walked 5 minutes, and you would have been together to take a walk. This appears to be a person who, whatever his fears and inability to communicate may be, doesn't really like to bestir himself to do much except accommodate what he wants.
In comparison, when I had move away to take a new job, my now-husband drove 5 hours every weekend so that we could be together.
I'm honestly not mean and I'm not cruel, I just know that you're in an early stage of recovery that hopefully will fade and you will learn about yourself and why you thought that this avoidant man was the love of your life. There are good, decent men out there who would make a good partner for you, but you need to free the space in your brain to have room so that you can begin to appreciate them.
Breaking the obsession usually requires No Contact (you can search that term and find lots of good information). It's difficult at first, but you need to prevent yourself from constantly being restimulated so that you can gain some perspective on what happened and begin to see the general patterns of his behavior and your behavior instead of dwelling on who sent what text or who made what phone call. The details are not as important as understanding what attracted you to him so that you can learn more about what happened. Learning more will allow you to be able to more clearly evaluate people whom you are dealing with so that you can find a good partner for yourself who will make you feel secure and confident.
Best wishes,
Katy
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Post by Kl on Oct 22, 2016 17:49:35 GMT
Anais,
That makes total sense and I hear you. Good luck with whatever you choose! Only you can decide what is right for your situation. I wish you the best!
Katy,
I don't think you're horrible and mean. A lot of what you're saying is helpful to me. Maybe a little negative in general, but I know you mean well. I do appreciate what you're saying. I just need to do this in my own way. I have done a lot of work on me. Believe me! Talking to Mary and Trixie is just helping me heal and understand. It is hard to get suddenly dumped, when there's no bad memories of fighting, name calling, etc. to remember, and when you open your heart up. I do know from two marriages, there is no perfect r/s. We all have issues. I also know what it's like not to have to ask for someone to spend time with you, so I know that is not good. Obviously, he did a lot of kind things in other ways that I do miss, and it is probably going to take me a while to get over it. I can't turn my emotions on and off that easily, and I know I have anxious tendencies, but I have not initiated any contact. It has barely been a month, the wounds are still fresh. I'm sorry if I'm not handling it the way you think I should. I am working it out in my own way, but thank you for taking time to help.
Kristy
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katy
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Post by katy on Oct 22, 2016 20:38:37 GMT
Kristy,
I think the dilemma of an avoidant just flipping from seeming to be loving into withdrawal overnight is what is so overwhelming for so many people. It makes you question everything about what happened and it's very difficult at first to really understand that you were dealing with a person who displays two distinct personalities.
I've thought of another issue that might have contributed to your boyfriend suddenly running. It's beyond your control, but the mix of people between you, him, and your girl friend whose boyfriend was his roommate may have felt too enmeshed for him. I'm not an avoidant, but I know that I would have been very uncomfortable having all of these separate relationships going on at the same time. Because your girl friend was always at their house and she was telling you what was going on when you weren't there, and then you might have talked with him about what she said, he may have felt very suffocated. But, at the same time, he was passing messages on to you to tell your girlfriend about them thinking she was at their house too much. It's hard not to discuss things with people that you've had previous relationships with, but he may have freaked because things felt too intertwined. Somehow, as hard as it is, when you decide to really move on, you're probably going to have to also stop getting progress reports from your girl friend about what he's doing. I'm sure that's going to be very difficult.
I hope you continue to recover.
Best wishes,
Katy |
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Post by Anais on Oct 23, 2016 2:18:57 GMT
I read somewhere that over time the defense the avoidants put up to dislike their ex erodes and that they feel the results of the breakup much later... is this accurate ?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 15:23:08 GMT
"I think that quoting unknown avoidants and even finding some experts who, somehow, have gotten avoidants into therapy and who endorse techniques for reasoning with avoidants are just feeding the very strong, normally hopeless, longing to happily reconcile with an avoidant."
Katy, I think you have the tendency to categorize all avoidants one way due to your own personal limited experience. People are all different and it's well documented that no matter what your attachment style is, your partner can effect it to the point of changing it. Also, many of the people on this board are making assumptions about their ex partner. Most people have not been formally diagnosed and there could be a whole host of other reasons why they acted the way they did. Relationships are difficult no matter what your attachment style and even among the general population there is a 50/50 shot at divorce/successful relationship. People here are trying to navigate their personal relationship and I think it's unfair for you to just say they should just forget about it and move on, just because they could possibly be avoidant. There are obviously positive attributes to their ex partners or they wouldn't be trying to figure it out. What's right for you is not right for everyone.
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Post by trixie5179 on Oct 23, 2016 15:36:04 GMT
Anais,
I'm not an avoidant, but I think what you said could be possible...although it probably also may depend on the individual and also how deep the feelings were in the relationship. Personally, I broke up with someone some years ago who I was pretty much 'done' with in the relationship, and right after we broke up I started dating someone else and was very busy. It wasn't until I was single and 6 months later that the breakup hit me, and I was regretting my decision and feeling sad. So who knows?
Kristy,
I'm glad that my story and others' here are helping you, as they're helping me, too. I do feel like I did not get the closure I would've liked, but then again I'm not sure what he could've said that would've made it a 'good' break up (maybe more reassurance that I did nothing wrong? however, he did tell me I did nothing wrong...). People say that we can't rely on anyone else for closure, that we must give it to ourselves. I'm not totally sure I know how to do that. But, I think a big part of it maybe is trusting in the fact that our ex's made the best decision for themselves, and for us. I have to have faith in the fact that my ex tried his best, however he knew how, to make things work and that if he thought it could work out with us, he would've stayed. It hurts, but I know that there was a lot more going on underneath the surface for him than I knew. He has a lot of emotional issues and what I thought was social phobia, but what I now believe to be something more pronounced.... Anyway, it's hard no matter how you look at it.
I did consider telling him the things regarding space and time that Mary's partner did, but I wouldn't want to make him feel like my life is on hold while he has no intention of getting back with me. At this point, I'm pretty sure he doesn't see how he can be in a relationship, while also be true to his identity (i.e., as a workaholic devoted to what is actually a hobby). I'd like to reach out to him, but don't know when ... or even what I would say. I have a feeling that when I do, it might make him nervous and uncomfortable, not knowing what I would be expecting in return. Sigh. For now, it's just something I think about..
Trixie
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