Post by szorn2296 on May 12, 2018 18:02:18 GMT
Hello,
I am looking for some insight/support in my situation with what I believe to be a fearful-avoidant ex (have gone back and forth with dismissive? Not sure)
I started dating him about 7 months ago, and everything went really well for the first few months. He was divorced about two years prior, however, through mutual friends I found out that he was trying to make it work with his ex long after the divorce was final - up until about 5 weeks before we started dating when she finally moved on with someone else.
Pretty early on he expressed fears to me and to his friend that he was going to mess things up, and that I did way more for him than he deserved, that he was lucky to have a chance with someone like me, etc. He did everything right at the start it seemed - communicated well, etc. I never understood his feelings of insecurity - very attractive, extremely successful high-profile job, smart, talented, etc. I always assured him that he DID deserve everything and that he was good enough.
Fast forward to a surprise trip I took him on for his 30th birthday. The trip went well until the last night when I had had a bit too much to drink, he brought me a water and asked what else I needed - so I asked him to scratch my back. He refused, stating I WANTED him to scratch my back, I didn't NEED him to scratch my back. Which sparked confusion for me, and as I questioned why he was reacting that way, he got increasingly more upset. He said "Do you know how many times I've wanted MY back scratched?" (I assume figuratively referring to his previous relationship. He had never asked me to scratch his back, and I am pretty affectionate and re assuring as it is). I couldn't figure out how the situation got as blown out of proportion as it did. I was not threatening, I did not beg, I was simply confused by his sudden change in temper and refusal to scratch my back when he had asked what I needed?
He then stated that he wanted to get in the car and leave, to which I responded "If it is that easy, you should go". He then got even more upset stating that I did not know what those words meant to him, and that is because I hadn't even bothered to ask him about his past (his divorce). I was stunned. How was all of this being thrown on me? How could someone get so quickly set off over something so small? He then refused to continue to talk about it, even when I asked him to please explain. He ordered dinner and acted as if nothing ever happened. I tried to bring it up again after we ate to give him the opportunity to explain what was going on, and he got even more furious and insisted I let him go to sleep. I finally did, extremely upset and alarmed by what I had just experienced.
The next morning, he acted as if nothing had happened (no apology, no acknowledgement). Midway through the morning, I asked if we could have a conversation about it so I could understand what I did to trigger him. Again, he shut me down. Getting angry saying that we had a day of travel ahead of us and traveling is stressful enough and today was not the day to talk about it. For me personally, I am more stressed when there is unresolved conflict, so this was difficult for me. I pushed back saying all I wanted was some insight and an apology for acting that way. He refused. I finally let it go and we traveled home that entire day with no mention of it. I cried on the flight home, to which he ignored.
We are long distance and did not see each other for the next month - although he is always good about texting/calling throughout the day to keep in touch. He had ample time off of work, yet never made an effort to come down (no further mention of what happened on the trip, either). A couple of times, he would mention that he was going to come down on a specific day (he is a pilot and it is a 1 hour flight, so very doable) and then would not mention it again. A few times I just let it go, I didn't bug him about it and assumed he had things he needed to get done. Finally, I brought this up to him and stated that I needed some effort on his end. He claims he is a terrible planner and I told him that was understandable, I can make the actual plans, I just need him to meet me halfway (saying he wants to see me, telling me what his schedule is like) and follow through when those plans are made. He did not immediately agree to this, but instead made excuses. I told him those were my standards and if he could not meet them, I was comfortable with accepting moving on. I also mentioned that we still needed to talk through what happened on our trip, to which he said we have different ideas on what needs to be discussed (he feels sweeping it under the rug and ignoring it is a solution).
Finally, over the phone, he asked what I wanted to know about his past. I said I didn't have anything specific but wanted him to share what he wanted me to know. He did share the story, and shared the situation that took place 5 weeks prior to us starting to date (he did not disclose the timeline of this, I only know when it happened from our mutual friends). I could hear the anger and resentment in his voice when he told the story, and after he finished, he felt regretful for sharing and said I probably didn't need to know that and he didn't know why he shared it. He then said he needed to get off the phone and sleep on it because he was emotionally overwhelmed. The next day, I texted him in the morning and asked if he could fly down so we could continue this conversation in person. This was an anxious tendency that I do recognize and I should have let him come to me. My text made him extremely angry and he withdrew and did not contact me for 4 days.
My anxious tendencies made me want to reach out, but I refrained. I was patient and I waited for him to come back to me. And he did. He flew down that day and we had a conversation. He didn't take much responsibility verbally, but I could tell that he realized some of his faults. He recognized he needed to more in the way of making the effort to come down here and follow through with plans. For the next 5 weeks, he was flying down all the time. He was reassuring, he was loving, he was making the effort x10. I was constantly appreciative to him so that he knew how much it meant and how happy it was making me. I thought we had turned a page.
Fast forward to the last weekend in March, he was in town and told me he was in love with me that weekend. He had had a few drinks, however, I do know that he meant it. He immediately was fearful that he "freaked me out" I assured him he did not, and that I felt the same way. The next night, we got in bed to which I leaned over to kiss him and tell him I loved him. He didn't respond. I asked if he was awake, he said yes but he was exhausted. I then asked if everything was ok. He responded "I just told you I'm exhausted". How could he have enough energy to tell me he was exhausted twice but not just roll over, kiss me and tell me he loved me? I stated that I told him I loved him and wondered why he didn't say it back. This made him furious. He said I don't listen to him. That he is exhausted and has been busting his ass to get up here for 5 weeks and do everything for me, but that he never does enough and I don't appreciate him. (
!!!?). I was shocked. I then said "I don't appreciate you?" He got angry that I didn't let him speak and that I don't listen to him and started packing his things to drive home 4 hours away at midnight. This triggered me. I was extremely upset and begged him to please not leave. He wouldn't listen. He kept packing. I tried to calm him down, I tried to reason with him, and this only made it worse. I didn't know what to do - I didn't want him driving 4 hours in the middle of the night in this state so I continued to try to reason (I shouldn't have).
This went on until about 3am. My dad abandoned me growing up, and my fear of abandonment is very much there, although I do manage it well as I have gotten older. I tried to communicate that he was triggering this fear by leaving my house, to which he got even more furious that I had compared him to my dad - he started using the f word, telling me I was out of my f'ing mind and out of f'ing control and I couldn't have f'ed this up more. He told me if I owned up to my own BS and admitted that I put him in the same category as my dad, he would stay for two hours and sleep before driving home. I did this because I was desperate to get him to stay instead of drive home (I admit, I should have let it go and gone to bed, but my instinct is to pull him out of this state when it happens and try to get him to be rational, which I realize is impossible). I had hoped after sleeping a bit, he would decide he was being over the top and stay. He set his alarm for two hours, got up, showered and headed out to drive 4 hours home. Again, how did this happen? How did this escalate over something so small? How hard was it for him to roll over say Goodnight, I love you too? Or, at the very least, apologize and stay and go to bed. He blows things out of proportion and then puts them on me - I don't appreciate him, I'm too needy, I don't let things go. Somehow I was the one profusely apologizing that night and after. I felt guilty for communicating that he was triggering my fear of abandonment by walking out on me over something so small.
I went down to talk to him the following weekend, apologized for my part, however small. He hardly apologized or owned up to his side (as always). He said he recognizes he can be harsh and he is working on it (the best I got). I truly think he is incapable of seeing his faults, or does, but will not face them due to his fear of inadequacy and fear of failure. After that conversation, for two weeks I felt unsettled. He also never said "I love you" again since that first night.
We had not seen each other for two weeks, so on a Wednesday I asked what he was doing that next weekend. He responded that he had no plans. I asked if he would like to see each other and he stated that he could look at the weather and fly down, or drive down, but that he could not come until Fri evening or Saturday. I asked him to please let me know when he decided. Friday evening rolled around, and he acted as though we had no plans. I gave him multiple opportunities over the phone to bring it up, asked what his plans were that evening, etc. No mention of coming down. I calmly said "I guess you don't plan to come down here?" He responded, as if taken off guard "No, I guess not". I told him I was dissapointed because this was the type of communication and initiation I told him that I needed, that I hadn't seen him in two weeks and missed him, and it was frustrating that he had not let me know. He then stated "I'm letting you know right now" I told him - yes, because I asked. It is as if you avoid them if I don't ask, which then makes me feel needy for constantly having to ask you about plans. I try to put the ball in your court, but you don't take initiative. It just upsets me. He then responded "That's all I do. I can't do anything right. I just upset you." I calmly got off the phone and knew I needed to end it.
I called him several hours later when I had collected my thoughts and simply told him it was not working anymore. That his behaviors were causing me emotional whiplash and that I was no longer happy and I needed to walk away. I expressed that I cared for him, loved him and wanted the best for him and that I did not want it to be this way between us, but that I couldn't accept that anymore. I told him that his words and behaviors have made me feel small, devalued, etc. I kept the conversation short and refrained from throwing a lot of specific examples at him. I feared he would be defensive and throw things back on me. Instead, he did the opposite. He was silent. He didn't say anything. I finally asked if he had anything he wanted to say or if he wanted me to let him go. He said "no, not right now" and I accepted that and said I'll let you go and we hung up.
It has been 3 weeks and he hasn't said a word. He does not have a close circle of friends - only one that is a mutual friend of ours that I know of (he is not very good at reciprocating friendship, making plans with friends, etc. although he has told me he realizes how important it is to have people around you and that success means nothing if you have no one to share it with). I checked in on him about a week and a half ago to tell him I was thinking of him and hoped he was doing ok. I asked if/when he was ready if we could have a conversation. No response.
What on earth? How on earth can someone operate this way? Although I do feel there are things I could have done better, overall, I felt like I was very patient, understanding, respectful and accomodating. It is just so hard to see someone you fell in love with do a complete 180 and show this ugly side of them. I can't tell if this was an onset of his divorce that he has (in my opinion) clearly not resolved, or if these are deeper rooted issues within him that are due to his avoidant attachment. Does he realize that he has messed this up? He has told our mutual friend, and myself, before that he knows he has messed up a lot of things in our relationship and he is doing everything he can to make it right. But it's like he can't stop sabatoging?
He told me so many re-assuring things - that he has never felt so compatable with someone, that he was so relieved to finally have someone to talk to, that I check every important box for him, that there are 1000 things he loves about me. He does not put himself out there (his job is a high-profile job and he often mentions that it is hard to find people that are geniune and like him for him. He always stated that he felt his status was not important to me and he loved that about me - I loved him for him), he does not sleep/date around, and he is relatively closed off I think because he is insecure. So when he found me and found out how much we have in common, how I brought him out of his shell, how accepting I was of his life and all that comes with it, finally felt comfortable with me, he fell pretty hard and I think it freaked him out a little. Although he isn't afraid of commitment (maybe because he has already done that?), I think he saw a future with me and would tell me that inadvertantly - I always felt like he was very intentional and very serious about me.
Will he ever say anything else to me or just keep running? It seems hard to believe that after all we shared he would just never say another word to me. But how, during a breakup conversation, do you have nothing to say to someone? Is it because he didn't want me to see him vulnerable? I have never seen this type of behavior before and it is really messing with me.
WOW that was long - but helpful to type it all out.
I am looking for some insight/support in my situation with what I believe to be a fearful-avoidant ex (have gone back and forth with dismissive? Not sure)
I started dating him about 7 months ago, and everything went really well for the first few months. He was divorced about two years prior, however, through mutual friends I found out that he was trying to make it work with his ex long after the divorce was final - up until about 5 weeks before we started dating when she finally moved on with someone else.
Pretty early on he expressed fears to me and to his friend that he was going to mess things up, and that I did way more for him than he deserved, that he was lucky to have a chance with someone like me, etc. He did everything right at the start it seemed - communicated well, etc. I never understood his feelings of insecurity - very attractive, extremely successful high-profile job, smart, talented, etc. I always assured him that he DID deserve everything and that he was good enough.
Fast forward to a surprise trip I took him on for his 30th birthday. The trip went well until the last night when I had had a bit too much to drink, he brought me a water and asked what else I needed - so I asked him to scratch my back. He refused, stating I WANTED him to scratch my back, I didn't NEED him to scratch my back. Which sparked confusion for me, and as I questioned why he was reacting that way, he got increasingly more upset. He said "Do you know how many times I've wanted MY back scratched?" (I assume figuratively referring to his previous relationship. He had never asked me to scratch his back, and I am pretty affectionate and re assuring as it is). I couldn't figure out how the situation got as blown out of proportion as it did. I was not threatening, I did not beg, I was simply confused by his sudden change in temper and refusal to scratch my back when he had asked what I needed?
He then stated that he wanted to get in the car and leave, to which I responded "If it is that easy, you should go". He then got even more upset stating that I did not know what those words meant to him, and that is because I hadn't even bothered to ask him about his past (his divorce). I was stunned. How was all of this being thrown on me? How could someone get so quickly set off over something so small? He then refused to continue to talk about it, even when I asked him to please explain. He ordered dinner and acted as if nothing ever happened. I tried to bring it up again after we ate to give him the opportunity to explain what was going on, and he got even more furious and insisted I let him go to sleep. I finally did, extremely upset and alarmed by what I had just experienced.
The next morning, he acted as if nothing had happened (no apology, no acknowledgement). Midway through the morning, I asked if we could have a conversation about it so I could understand what I did to trigger him. Again, he shut me down. Getting angry saying that we had a day of travel ahead of us and traveling is stressful enough and today was not the day to talk about it. For me personally, I am more stressed when there is unresolved conflict, so this was difficult for me. I pushed back saying all I wanted was some insight and an apology for acting that way. He refused. I finally let it go and we traveled home that entire day with no mention of it. I cried on the flight home, to which he ignored.
We are long distance and did not see each other for the next month - although he is always good about texting/calling throughout the day to keep in touch. He had ample time off of work, yet never made an effort to come down (no further mention of what happened on the trip, either). A couple of times, he would mention that he was going to come down on a specific day (he is a pilot and it is a 1 hour flight, so very doable) and then would not mention it again. A few times I just let it go, I didn't bug him about it and assumed he had things he needed to get done. Finally, I brought this up to him and stated that I needed some effort on his end. He claims he is a terrible planner and I told him that was understandable, I can make the actual plans, I just need him to meet me halfway (saying he wants to see me, telling me what his schedule is like) and follow through when those plans are made. He did not immediately agree to this, but instead made excuses. I told him those were my standards and if he could not meet them, I was comfortable with accepting moving on. I also mentioned that we still needed to talk through what happened on our trip, to which he said we have different ideas on what needs to be discussed (he feels sweeping it under the rug and ignoring it is a solution).
Finally, over the phone, he asked what I wanted to know about his past. I said I didn't have anything specific but wanted him to share what he wanted me to know. He did share the story, and shared the situation that took place 5 weeks prior to us starting to date (he did not disclose the timeline of this, I only know when it happened from our mutual friends). I could hear the anger and resentment in his voice when he told the story, and after he finished, he felt regretful for sharing and said I probably didn't need to know that and he didn't know why he shared it. He then said he needed to get off the phone and sleep on it because he was emotionally overwhelmed. The next day, I texted him in the morning and asked if he could fly down so we could continue this conversation in person. This was an anxious tendency that I do recognize and I should have let him come to me. My text made him extremely angry and he withdrew and did not contact me for 4 days.
My anxious tendencies made me want to reach out, but I refrained. I was patient and I waited for him to come back to me. And he did. He flew down that day and we had a conversation. He didn't take much responsibility verbally, but I could tell that he realized some of his faults. He recognized he needed to more in the way of making the effort to come down here and follow through with plans. For the next 5 weeks, he was flying down all the time. He was reassuring, he was loving, he was making the effort x10. I was constantly appreciative to him so that he knew how much it meant and how happy it was making me. I thought we had turned a page.
Fast forward to the last weekend in March, he was in town and told me he was in love with me that weekend. He had had a few drinks, however, I do know that he meant it. He immediately was fearful that he "freaked me out" I assured him he did not, and that I felt the same way. The next night, we got in bed to which I leaned over to kiss him and tell him I loved him. He didn't respond. I asked if he was awake, he said yes but he was exhausted. I then asked if everything was ok. He responded "I just told you I'm exhausted". How could he have enough energy to tell me he was exhausted twice but not just roll over, kiss me and tell me he loved me? I stated that I told him I loved him and wondered why he didn't say it back. This made him furious. He said I don't listen to him. That he is exhausted and has been busting his ass to get up here for 5 weeks and do everything for me, but that he never does enough and I don't appreciate him. (
!!!?). I was shocked. I then said "I don't appreciate you?" He got angry that I didn't let him speak and that I don't listen to him and started packing his things to drive home 4 hours away at midnight. This triggered me. I was extremely upset and begged him to please not leave. He wouldn't listen. He kept packing. I tried to calm him down, I tried to reason with him, and this only made it worse. I didn't know what to do - I didn't want him driving 4 hours in the middle of the night in this state so I continued to try to reason (I shouldn't have).This went on until about 3am. My dad abandoned me growing up, and my fear of abandonment is very much there, although I do manage it well as I have gotten older. I tried to communicate that he was triggering this fear by leaving my house, to which he got even more furious that I had compared him to my dad - he started using the f word, telling me I was out of my f'ing mind and out of f'ing control and I couldn't have f'ed this up more. He told me if I owned up to my own BS and admitted that I put him in the same category as my dad, he would stay for two hours and sleep before driving home. I did this because I was desperate to get him to stay instead of drive home (I admit, I should have let it go and gone to bed, but my instinct is to pull him out of this state when it happens and try to get him to be rational, which I realize is impossible). I had hoped after sleeping a bit, he would decide he was being over the top and stay. He set his alarm for two hours, got up, showered and headed out to drive 4 hours home. Again, how did this happen? How did this escalate over something so small? How hard was it for him to roll over say Goodnight, I love you too? Or, at the very least, apologize and stay and go to bed. He blows things out of proportion and then puts them on me - I don't appreciate him, I'm too needy, I don't let things go. Somehow I was the one profusely apologizing that night and after. I felt guilty for communicating that he was triggering my fear of abandonment by walking out on me over something so small.
I went down to talk to him the following weekend, apologized for my part, however small. He hardly apologized or owned up to his side (as always). He said he recognizes he can be harsh and he is working on it (the best I got). I truly think he is incapable of seeing his faults, or does, but will not face them due to his fear of inadequacy and fear of failure. After that conversation, for two weeks I felt unsettled. He also never said "I love you" again since that first night.
We had not seen each other for two weeks, so on a Wednesday I asked what he was doing that next weekend. He responded that he had no plans. I asked if he would like to see each other and he stated that he could look at the weather and fly down, or drive down, but that he could not come until Fri evening or Saturday. I asked him to please let me know when he decided. Friday evening rolled around, and he acted as though we had no plans. I gave him multiple opportunities over the phone to bring it up, asked what his plans were that evening, etc. No mention of coming down. I calmly said "I guess you don't plan to come down here?" He responded, as if taken off guard "No, I guess not". I told him I was dissapointed because this was the type of communication and initiation I told him that I needed, that I hadn't seen him in two weeks and missed him, and it was frustrating that he had not let me know. He then stated "I'm letting you know right now" I told him - yes, because I asked. It is as if you avoid them if I don't ask, which then makes me feel needy for constantly having to ask you about plans. I try to put the ball in your court, but you don't take initiative. It just upsets me. He then responded "That's all I do. I can't do anything right. I just upset you." I calmly got off the phone and knew I needed to end it.
I called him several hours later when I had collected my thoughts and simply told him it was not working anymore. That his behaviors were causing me emotional whiplash and that I was no longer happy and I needed to walk away. I expressed that I cared for him, loved him and wanted the best for him and that I did not want it to be this way between us, but that I couldn't accept that anymore. I told him that his words and behaviors have made me feel small, devalued, etc. I kept the conversation short and refrained from throwing a lot of specific examples at him. I feared he would be defensive and throw things back on me. Instead, he did the opposite. He was silent. He didn't say anything. I finally asked if he had anything he wanted to say or if he wanted me to let him go. He said "no, not right now" and I accepted that and said I'll let you go and we hung up.
It has been 3 weeks and he hasn't said a word. He does not have a close circle of friends - only one that is a mutual friend of ours that I know of (he is not very good at reciprocating friendship, making plans with friends, etc. although he has told me he realizes how important it is to have people around you and that success means nothing if you have no one to share it with). I checked in on him about a week and a half ago to tell him I was thinking of him and hoped he was doing ok. I asked if/when he was ready if we could have a conversation. No response.
What on earth? How on earth can someone operate this way? Although I do feel there are things I could have done better, overall, I felt like I was very patient, understanding, respectful and accomodating. It is just so hard to see someone you fell in love with do a complete 180 and show this ugly side of them. I can't tell if this was an onset of his divorce that he has (in my opinion) clearly not resolved, or if these are deeper rooted issues within him that are due to his avoidant attachment. Does he realize that he has messed this up? He has told our mutual friend, and myself, before that he knows he has messed up a lot of things in our relationship and he is doing everything he can to make it right. But it's like he can't stop sabatoging?
He told me so many re-assuring things - that he has never felt so compatable with someone, that he was so relieved to finally have someone to talk to, that I check every important box for him, that there are 1000 things he loves about me. He does not put himself out there (his job is a high-profile job and he often mentions that it is hard to find people that are geniune and like him for him. He always stated that he felt his status was not important to me and he loved that about me - I loved him for him), he does not sleep/date around, and he is relatively closed off I think because he is insecure. So when he found me and found out how much we have in common, how I brought him out of his shell, how accepting I was of his life and all that comes with it, finally felt comfortable with me, he fell pretty hard and I think it freaked him out a little. Although he isn't afraid of commitment (maybe because he has already done that?), I think he saw a future with me and would tell me that inadvertantly - I always felt like he was very intentional and very serious about me.
Will he ever say anything else to me or just keep running? It seems hard to believe that after all we shared he would just never say another word to me. But how, during a breakup conversation, do you have nothing to say to someone? Is it because he didn't want me to see him vulnerable? I have never seen this type of behavior before and it is really messing with me.
WOW that was long - but helpful to type it all out.
