|
|
Post by happyidiot on Sept 22, 2018 20:08:28 GMT
As an AP in relationships I have always done this. Deffo not an FA thing only, more like a human thing. I always fault find really badly. Really? What kinds of faults? And what do you think/do about them? |
|
|
|
Post by epicgum on Sept 22, 2018 20:57:42 GMT
I think self esteem is a dangerous concept - self acceptance is much more healthy. We try to build self esteem to make ourselves feel better and we inherently begin to associate feeling good with achieving, with being something maybe a certain weight, a certain look or whatever. We do it with our kids too - praising achievements and inadvertently teaching them they are only worth love when they've done something commendable. From what I can see - all insecure attachments stem from having disordered self esteem whether it's overt or covert. So the classic DA steers clear of emotional attachment because their self esteem or positive self image is dependent on being self reliant and self contained. The AP maybe has self esteem relying on others to show "love" in order to make them feel good. The FA swings between the two. Surely the healthy position is a realistic acceptance that we are all flawed, no body is perfect, nobody is more worthy than another person and we are all deserving of love and happiness regardless of how we look or what we've achieved. This requires learning to tolerate and indeed compassionately embrace, feeling bad or less than. Funny thing is that how we feel about ourselves is reflected in how we judge others - so self compassion is certainly something worth developing whatever attachment style. Wow...awesome post. I can so relate to this. I think this can get worse if you "climb the rungs" in professional life...good grades in school, performing in sports well, good college, prestigious career....obviously our parents and friends want to set us up for the best life they can and give us a good work ethic, but when you get too much praise and encouragement for these things they become your source of value and you dont develop/lose tbe ability to love yourself simply because you exist. And when life gets really really hard, you might lose all of these things that people admired you for, so it sets you up to be in a really bad place. I started leafing through this book and I think it is helpful: www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.amazon.com/Love-Yourself-Like-Your-Depends-ebook/dp/B0086BX8UE&ved=2ahUKEwiJ6Mj9v8_dAhWhSt8KHegHD8YQ5OUBMAd6BAgBEAE&usg=AOvVaw1rfROfiUB81Zy9C77VU9hY |
|
|
|
Post by happyidiot on Sept 22, 2018 21:33:11 GMT
Totally. And then the FA might meet someone really good-looking who is interested in him, constantly think she will one day wake up and realize she can get someone hotter, break up with her, get a new haircut and buy a gym pass but barely use it. I'm pretty sur I'm FA and I can relate a bit xD Constantly thinking I could be dumped for someone hotter and overfocus on my looks and yeah, I'm ashamed to confess I even tried the new haircut once with my ex ! About looks in general I automatically friendzone in my mind the guys who fit the beauty's standards thinking that anyway they will never desire me and I convince myself that they are not my type anyway. And when I date someone, I go back and forth from the anxiety-jealous mode "he is too hot to me, I'll loose him when he realizes that" to the avoidant-fault-finding mode "I'm ashamed to be with a so ugly guy, look at this nose !". But I'm not sur it's a FA thing ? It's really new to me, at my early 30s now, to begin to be gentle with the image I see on the mirror and with my personality, my flaws... In my case I do think I have low self-steem in general, in all domains of life. But the insecurity is not always there, I begin to feel more self-confident in my professional and relational skills and my looks but sometimes I have serious doubts about my self-worth. By the way, it's a good step for me to write this first reply on the forum as english is not my first langage. I've been reading you guys since many months now and I was constantly telling me that it would be hard to express myself so why to try? I'm glad you decided to post. Your English is easy to understand, don't worry. I think it is an FA thing to go back and forth between thinking someone is really attractive or unattractive. But I'm curious to see what Helsbells says. If I look at my textbook AP friend, I don't think she does that. She's more often totally idealizing a romantic partner. I've only seen her put off by someone acting way more AP than her, which is rare, and even then it's more just finding faults with their behavior. If someone is not acting AP she might just find fault with them not giving her enough attention and reassurance, which I do not think is what's meant by avoidant (FA or DA) "fault-finding." Jeb (the author of this site) says that both FAs and DAs will engage in fault-finding (focussing on negative things) as a way to prevent closeness, whereas APs will engage in "protest behavior" and blame their partner for their feelings. An avoidant person fault-finding might think things like, "He's not good-looking enough," or, "His house is too messy, I can't be with someone like that," or, "The way he dresses is embarrassing." An FA person like myself might alternate these negative thoughts with thoughts like, "He's so good-looking, what was I thinking? In fact he's better looking than me," or, "His house isn't really that messy and who cares anyway," or, "I like that he has a unique sense of style and doesn't care what others think." I don't know if DAs do that? Whereas I think an AP looking for "faults" is more likely to just be thinking things like, "He never texts me back fast enough, he doesn't care about my feelings," or, "I can't believe he's going out with the boys tonight instead of me, he knows I had a tough day," and it's not so much a way to prevent closeness or caring about the person, if they actually get to the point of breaking up with someone over these things they will be hoping that their partner will ask them to take them back and offer to change. I also think it is an FA thing to not pursue anything romantic with guys who you think are too good-looking and to convince yourself that they aren't your type anyway. I see one of my FA friends do this all the time. A woman will ask him out and he will ignore her, saying, "She's way too beautiful, she could never be with a guy like me, and anyways, we have different tastes in music and clothing so we'd probably have nothing in common." I can totally relate to the "shes so much better than me and is going to leave me, no wait shes so beneath me/toxic and I need to run away and find someone better" I think the lesson in this is that comparisons are really really bad. "Filtering or Fault Finding: only seeing the negative and filtering out the positive. For example, only seeing the negative things that your partner does and overlooking all of the kind and thoughtful things they do. For the avoidant attachment style I also call this fault finding, as they will often isolate and focus on their partners flaws in order to create emotional distance. This can also lead to another thought trap: Comparing. Comparing: Comparing is similar to faultfinding but it often has to do with comparing our current partner with others that have gotten away. Often times feeling like you have lost the one, or that your first love was so intense and amazing that nothing that comes after could and will ever compare. Everyone you date afterwards is measured to this lost love." the-love-compass.com/2014/11/08/5-common-thought-traps-faced-avoidant-attachment-style/I think FAs do this but can go also back and forth between this and seeing the positives/idealizing, until they are pulled too far in one direction or the other. |
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Sept 22, 2018 21:57:24 GMT
Agree with happyidiot , wanted to add that you can think about where the insecurely attached person is sourcing his or her self esteem from. An AP person is unlikely to nitpick and find fault because they have low self-esteem, and the partner is providing them validation. You wouldn't want to diminish your validation source. However, once the AP is feeling dissatisfied with the level of validation, they may respond with protest behavior or perhaps fault finding if they've found another more satisfactory source of validation and are perceiving rejection from their partner (real or imagined) . When FA is seeking external validation, they may do the same (as they are also low self esteem), until they get pushed to fear of engulfment, feel distrust of others, and then the desire to deactivate becomes greater than the need for validation for the time being. DA is often more distrustful of others and not consciously seeking validation, so nitpicking a partner to maintain distance can be an adequate deactivation strategy.
This is also the problem with self esteem vs. self acceptance  Behaviors that focus way too much on external factors. |
|
|
|
Post by happyidiot on Sept 22, 2018 22:02:19 GMT
Agree with happyidiot , wanted to add that you can think about where the insecurely attached person is sourcing his or her self esteem from. An AP person is unlikely to nitpick and find fault because they have low self-esteem, and the partner is providing them validation. You wouldn't want to diminish your validation source. However, once the AP is feeling dissatisfied with the level of validation, they may respond with protest behavior or perhaps fault finding if they've found another more satisfactory source of validation and are perceiving rejection from their partner (real or imagined) . When FA is seeking external validation, they may do the same (as they are also low self esteem), until they get pushed to fear of engulfment, feel distrust of others, and then the desire to deactivate becomes greater than the need for validation for the time being. DA is often more distrustful of others and not consciously seeking validation, so nitpicking a partner to maintain distance can be an adequate deactivation strategy. As usual, you've articulated and expanded upon it better than I could have. That completely makes sense. |
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Sept 22, 2018 22:07:19 GMT
happyidiot, I didn't have too much to add, you had it mostly covered
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 9:13:46 GMT
As an AP in relationships I have always done this. Deffo not an FA thing only, more like a human thing. I always fault find really badly. Really? What kinds of faults? And what do you think/do about them? I've been thinking of this somewhat and I tend to compare new love interests against my previous partner in a negative way, being my previous one appearing god like. How they walk is big one for me 😱 oral hygiene is another, how they drink and eat. What is strange is how I'm still thinking all this about my now bf but because he's triggered me I am managing to push them down, brush them under the carpet but I still think them. I have pushed faults and moved my goal post far more than I would have in the past because this relationship has triggered me into becoming AP far more than any other. There was a guy I was quite besotted with we eventually got together, he acted like he adored me and treated me gently I felt stifled and looked for something to end it and i found it in a pair of jeans he wearing, I remember leaving his home and felt repulsion so bad I could not even bring myself to talk to him again it was that instant. I have done this quite a few times with guys that I never thought I could bag only to get with them and depending on the way they treat me"looking back now obviously they treated me too nice", I could literally be repulsed by them and end it and never look back. So I guess now looking at it the keepers for me are the ones that trigger my attachment wound. Wow it all makes sense now. Don't get me wrong im still finding faults but the ap in me is squashing down for now anyway. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 9:34:47 GMT
Really? What kinds of faults? And what do you think/do about them? I've been thinking of this somewhat and I tend to compare new love interests against my previous partner in a negative way, being my previous one appearing god like. How they walk is big one for me 😱 oral hygiene is another, how they drink and eat. What is strange is how I'm still thinking all this about my now bf but because he's triggered me I am managing to push them down, brush them under the carpet but I still think them. I have pushed faults and moved my goal post far more than I would have in the past because this relationship has triggered me into becoming AP far more than any other. There was a guy I was quite besotted with we eventually got together, he acted like he adored me and treated me gently I felt stifled and looked for something to end it and i found it in a pair of jeans he wearing, I remember leaving his home and felt repulsion so bad I could not even bring myself to talk to him again it was that instant. I have done this quite a few times with guys that I never thought I could bag only to get with them and depending on the way they treat me"looking back now obviously they treated me too nice", I could literally be repulsed by them and end it and never look back. So I guess now looking at it the keepers for me are the ones that trigger my attachment wound. Wow it all makes sense now. Don't get me wrong im still finding faults but the ap in me is squashing down for now anyway. FC Going back to the self esteem, mine has never been so low. I think losing my husband a couple of years ago knocked me for six. And having a bf quite a bit younger than me is at the root of it. He is a fa and if I'm honest is out of shape and drinks very heavily. I keep myself in great shape " but do have low self worth",and get asked out a lot by younger guys in work who I know already adore me, yet I'm sticking with this one because he has triggered me. So is it low self esteem or attachment or both. Sorry if none of this makes sense find it hard to articulate what I'm trying to say. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 14:13:35 GMT
Helsbells, it makes total sense. I know it's no accident that I am only attracted to AP men. Even knowing that information, I can't change the chemistry or lack of.
|
|
|
|
Post by happyidiot on Sept 24, 2018 5:31:59 GMT
As an AP in relationships I have always done this. Deffo not an FA thing only, more like a human thing. I always fault find really badly. I've been thinking of this somewhat and I tend to compare new love interests against my previous partner in a negative way, being my previous one appearing god like. How they walk is big one for me 😱 oral hygiene is another, how they drink and eat. What is strange is how I'm still thinking all this about my now bf but because he's triggered me I am managing to push them down, brush them under the carpet but I still think them. I have pushed faults and moved my goal post far more than I would have in the past because this relationship has triggered me into becoming AP far more than any other. There was a guy I was quite besotted with we eventually got together, he acted like he adored me and treated me gently I felt stifled and looked for something to end it and i found it in a pair of jeans he wearing, I remember leaving his home and felt repulsion so bad I could not even bring myself to talk to him again it was that instant. I have done this quite a few times with guys that I never thought I could bag only to get with them and depending on the way they treat me"looking back now obviously they treated me too nice", I could literally be repulsed by them and end it and never look back. So I guess now looking at it the keepers for me are the ones that trigger my attachment wound. Wow it all makes sense now. Don't get me wrong im still finding faults but the ap in me is squashing down for now anyway. FC Going back to the self esteem, mine has never been so low. I think losing my husband a couple of years ago knocked me for six. And having a bf quite a bit younger than me is at the root of it. He is a fa and if I'm honest is out of shape and drinks very heavily. I keep myself in great shape " but do have low self worth",and get asked out a lot by younger guys in work who I know already adore me, yet I'm sticking with this one because he has triggered me. So is it low self esteem or attachment or both. Sorry if none of this makes sense find it hard to articulate what I'm trying to say. I would like some input from other people, but I don't think that is common for full APs. I don't think it is just "a human thing" to compare new partners to previous partners while viewing the previous partner as almost godlike, or to find yourself repulsed by something like an item of clothing. That sounds FA to me. In other posts you have said you are avoidant in all relationships except for your small number of serious lasting romantic relationships, right? I only have 2 friends who I know of who are AP, so I don't have a lot of real life examples, but like I said before, if I look at my textbook AP friend as an example, she idealizes romantic partners. She only starts to find faults with a partner if they have started behaving way more AP than her, and/or she has found someone new to replace them with, and/or maybe if she perceived rejection from them. I have never heard her compare a partner to an ex (and trust me, I'd hear about it). Each new partner is the most amazing person ever, she says she's never felt like this about anyone before, etc. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2018 9:01:19 GMT
As an AP in relationships I have always done this. Deffo not an FA thing only, more like a human thing. I always fault find really badly. I've been thinking of this somewhat and I tend to compare new love interests against my previous partner in a negative way, being my previous one appearing god like. How they walk is big one for me 😱 oral hygiene is another, how they drink and eat. What is strange is how I'm still thinking all this about my now bf but because he's triggered me I am managing to push them down, brush them under the carpet but I still think them. I have pushed faults and moved my goal post far more than I would have in the past because this relationship has triggered me into becoming AP far more than any other. There was a guy I was quite besotted with we eventually got together, he acted like he adored me and treated me gently I felt stifled and looked for something to end it and i found it in a pair of jeans he wearing, I remember leaving his home and felt repulsion so bad I could not even bring myself to talk to him again it was that instant. I have done this quite a few times with guys that I never thought I could bag only to get with them and depending on the way they treat me"looking back now obviously they treated me too nice", I could literally be repulsed by them and end it and never look back. So I guess now looking at it the keepers for me are the ones that trigger my attachment wound. Wow it all makes sense now. Don't get me wrong im still finding faults but the ap in me is squashing down for now anyway. FC Going back to the self esteem, mine has never been so low. I think losing my husband a couple of years ago knocked me for six. And having a bf quite a bit younger than me is at the root of it. He is a fa and if I'm honest is out of shape and drinks very heavily. I keep myself in great shape " but do have low self worth",and get asked out a lot by younger guys in work who I know already adore me, yet I'm sticking with this one because he has triggered me. So is it low self esteem or attachment or both. Sorry if none of this makes sense find it hard to articulate what I'm trying to say. I would like some input from other people, but I don't think that is common for full APs. I don't think it is just "a human thing" to compare new partners to previous partners while viewing the previous partner as almost godlike, or to find yourself repulsed by something like an item of clothing. That sounds FA to me. In other posts you have said you are avoidant in all relationships except for your small number of serious lasting romantic relationships, right? I only have 2 friends who I know of who are AP, so I don't have a lot of real life examples, but like I said before, if I look at my textbook AP friend as an example, she idealizes romantic partners. She only starts to find faults with a partner if they have started behaving way more AP than her, and/or she has found someone new to replace them with, and/or maybe if she perceived rejection from them. I have never heard her compare a partner to an ex (and trust me, I'd hear about it). Each new partner is the most amazing person ever, she says she's never felt like this about anyone before, etc. Yes I don't think I am very typical I do test more anxious avoidant so hearing from other AP would be good. I think I met my recent FA bf at such a traumatic time in my life " grieving the loss off my husband of 28yrs", has really effected my confidence. So nothing seems very clear or real at the moment. I really don't know what's happening and what I want to happen. I feel my roots have been torn up and I'm drifting around feeling very scared and very unsettled. All this has made me very very anxious in this relationship and very confused. I really struggle trying to communicate as I don't really feel like I know what I want. I am just focusing on being the best I can, being gentle and caring to all around me. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2018 14:33:08 GMT
Yes I don't think I am very typical I do test more anxious avoidant so hearing from other AP would be good. I think I met my recent FA bf at such a traumatic time in my life " grieving the loss off my husband of 28yrs", has really effected my confidence. So nothing seems very clear or real at the moment. I really don't know what's happening and what I want to happen. I feel my roots have been torn up and I'm drifting around feeling very scared and very unsettled. All this has made me very very anxious in this relationship and very confused. I really struggle trying to communicate as I don't really feel like I know what I want. I am just focusing on being the best I can, being gentle and caring to all around me. I'm sorry, it sounds like you are having a rough time. I think that traumatic experiences change our personal landscape, sometimes just temporarily. We all need to heal, and grieve. I am confident you will grow your roots again when the time is right. Take care of you! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2018 14:55:33 GMT
Yes I don't think I am very typical I do test more anxious avoidant so hearing from other AP would be good. I think I met my recent FA bf at such a traumatic time in my life " grieving the loss off my husband of 28yrs", has really effected my confidence. So nothing seems very clear or real at the moment. I really don't know what's happening and what I want to happen. I feel my roots have been torn up and I'm drifting around feeling very scared and very unsettled. All this has made me very very anxious in this relationship and very confused. I really struggle trying to communicate as I don't really feel like I know what I want. I am just focusing on being the best I can, being gentle and caring to all around me. I'm sorry, it sounds like you are having a rough time. I think that traumatic experiences change our personal landscape, sometimes just temporarily. We all need to heal, and grieve. I am confident you will grow your roots again when the time is right. Take care of you! Thank you Mary for your kind words. They mean a lot to me. Bless you x |
|
|
|
Post by happyidiot on Oct 1, 2018 8:58:52 GMT
Yes I don't think I am very typical I do test more anxious avoidant so hearing from other AP would be good. I think I met my recent FA bf at such a traumatic time in my life " grieving the loss off my husband of 28yrs", has really effected my confidence. So nothing seems very clear or real at the moment. I really don't know what's happening and what I want to happen. I feel my roots have been torn up and I'm drifting around feeling very scared and very unsettled. All this has made me very very anxious in this relationship and very confused. I really struggle trying to communicate as I don't really feel like I know what I want. I am just focusing on being the best I can, being gentle and caring to all around me. It's completely understandable considering what you've been through. You are being very strong, doing this learning now. You are a very gentle caring person and you are appreciated. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 12:20:44 GMT
Yes I don't think I am very typical I do test more anxious avoidant so hearing from other AP would be good. I think I met my recent FA bf at such a traumatic time in my life " grieving the loss off my husband of 28yrs", has really effected my confidence. So nothing seems very clear or real at the moment. I really don't know what's happening and what I want to happen. I feel my roots have been torn up and I'm drifting around feeling very scared and very unsettled. All this has made me very very anxious in this relationship and very confused. I really struggle trying to communicate as I don't really feel like I know what I want. I am just focusing on being the best I can, being gentle and caring to all around me. It's completely understandable considering what you've been through. You are being very strong, doing this learning now. You are a very gentle caring person and you are appreciated. Thank you my dear friend, what you say and the support you give means a lot to me. I hope you are ok, your in my thoughts ❤️ xx |
|
Behaviors that focus way too much on external factors.