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Post by happyidiot on Oct 3, 2018 21:10:31 GMT
It's completely understandable considering what you've been through. You are being very strong, doing this learning now. You are a very gentle caring person and you are appreciated. Thank you my dear friend, what you say and the support you give means a lot to me. I hope you are ok, your in my thoughts ❤️ xx Thank you, love! I'm up and down but I'll be ok, I've been through worse. Feel free to reach out whenever you're struggling and lonely.
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Post by gaynxious on Oct 19, 2018 21:22:15 GMT
In a lot of threads here people like to differentiate DA and FA partly on whether one has high self-esteem or low self-esteem
This perplexes me a bit. Can someone's self-esteem be more variable than that, particularly in different domains of life?
Like I am not sure whether I have high or low self esteem because in some areas of life it is low, and in other areas high. More specifically, when it comes to things like my looks, ability to flirt, ability to attract people, desireability, etc., mine was always low. But when it comes to things like school, the intellect, work ethic, morality, ability to move around in the world independently, it's always been high.
Though of course as I've aged and matured I'm able to see the ways that hierarchies don't really exist or don't have to-- that everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, that nobody is really all that inherently better than anyone else.
Anyway, I'm not sure I agree that one's self esteem is just high or low, necessarily.
Also in terms of people who may seem to have high self esteem, absent of personality disorders, how do you know if people actually do, or if they're posturing to protect themselves, and in that sense how is it measureable in the realm of psychology?
Self esteem can certainly be more complicated that high or low or even a continuum. I’d say most people exist somewhere on a continuum and osiclate in a fairly narrow range but not everyone. Some people have high self esteem in some areas and low in others. I’m not talking about moments of doubt, everyone has that. Some people have high self esteem in there abilities and achievements but ow self esteem in their social abilities. I have been pulling back from someone whom I can’t tell if they are AP or FA, extremely anxious at the very least. His self esteem is very complicated. He over estimates his intelligence and ability to read people, is very confident in his looks and charisma when he needs it, thinks he can do just about anything if he puts his mind to it and thinks everyone wants to be or should want to be him. Flip side, he knows he is bad at realarionships. He often blames his partners or partner choice but at times shows real introspection that deep down he knows it’s his fault. He thinks of himself as a bad person and writes a lot of fiction about a gay couple, the evil one is who he really is, the good one is the one he wishes he could be. He’s very aware that most people don’t like him rather quickly but is unsure why and very often literally thinks his problems are everyone else being wrong about how things should be. I’ve never met anyone with simultaneously such high and low self esteem, which is part of why I can’t tell if he is AP or FA.
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Post by epicgum on Oct 19, 2018 21:40:36 GMT
I read somewhere that confident (healthy) people understand that people are the same and no one is better or worse than anyone else.
I think it's a good thing to remember when you are feeling down about yourself.
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Post by ocarina on Oct 19, 2018 22:43:04 GMT
I thought this was a good quote - I was talking about humility with my partner yesterday and he brought up something similar:
“Genuine humility is a reflection of neither weakness nor insecurity. Instead, it implies a respectful appreciation of the strengths of others, a lack of personal pretension and a more relaxed sense of confidence that doesn’t require external recognition.”
I feel a lot of the time that I have reached this place, in my career and relationship, where I can genuinely be myself and feel humble enough to admit mistakes, say I don't know and be vulnerable in front of others. Previously I would have described my self esteem as high but I can now see that was a painted on version - requiring external validation and achievement to maintain. My current experience feels very different.
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Post by epicgum on Oct 19, 2018 22:49:56 GMT
I think the "self esteem" question is also complicated by the culture where confidence is everything (work, dating, platonic friendships) and "fake it till you fake it" is celebrated. So there's no incentive to admit to low self esteem, even to yourself.
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Post by ocarina on Oct 19, 2018 22:56:08 GMT
This incessant obsession with self confidence not only breeds narcissism but also disconnects us from our common humanity. It's normal to not feel great all the time, to have doubts, to feel less than - - truly confident people have a kind of inner resilience which allows for failure, for the inevitable downs as well as the ups.
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 20, 2018 17:23:44 GMT
In a lot of threads here people like to differentiate DA and FA partly on whether one has high self-esteem or low self-esteem
This perplexes me a bit. Can someone's self-esteem be more variable than that, particularly in different domains of life?
Like I am not sure whether I have high or low self esteem because in some areas of life it is low, and in other areas high. More specifically, when it comes to things like my looks, ability to flirt, ability to attract people, desireability, etc., mine was always low. But when it comes to things like school, the intellect, work ethic, morality, ability to move around in the world independently, it's always been high.
Though of course as I've aged and matured I'm able to see the ways that hierarchies don't really exist or don't have to-- that everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, that nobody is really all that inherently better than anyone else.
Anyway, I'm not sure I agree that one's self esteem is just high or low, necessarily.
Also in terms of people who may seem to have high self esteem, absent of personality disorders, how do you know if people actually do, or if they're posturing to protect themselves, and in that sense how is it measureable in the realm of psychology?
Hi there....what I didn’t used to understand is that self image and self-esteem are two different things. I have a good self image but low self-esteem. That low self-esteem is tied into many of my issues and my AP tendencies.
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Post by epicgum on Oct 20, 2018 17:39:08 GMT
This incessant obsession with self confidence not only breeds narcissism but also disconnects us from our common humanity. It's normal to not feel great all the time, to have doubts, to feel less than - - truly confident people have a kind of inner resilience which allows for failure, for the inevitable downs as well as the ups. That "it's normal to not feel great all the time." Is something that deserves underscoring to me. Hell, it sounds insane not to know this, but the first thing I learned from my attachment theory journey is that it is 'ok' and actually good to hold your partners hand in a time of stress. Lol! I know it's almost a cliche in mental health the "it's ok to not be ok" but until I actually hit the bottom that allowed me to sign up for this site I had no idea that i shouldn't just be projecting a false image of happiness and competence all of the time. Obviously now I realize that this makes intimacy and connection, not just with lovers but with friends, totally impossible.
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Post by epicgum on Oct 20, 2018 17:41:03 GMT
In a lot of threads here people like to differentiate DA and FA partly on whether one has high self-esteem or low self-esteem
This perplexes me a bit. Can someone's self-esteem be more variable than that, particularly in different domains of life?
Like I am not sure whether I have high or low self esteem because in some areas of life it is low, and in other areas high. More specifically, when it comes to things like my looks, ability to flirt, ability to attract people, desireability, etc., mine was always low. But when it comes to things like school, the intellect, work ethic, morality, ability to move around in the world independently, it's always been high.
Though of course as I've aged and matured I'm able to see the ways that hierarchies don't really exist or don't have to-- that everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, that nobody is really all that inherently better than anyone else.
Anyway, I'm not sure I agree that one's self esteem is just high or low, necessarily.
Also in terms of people who may seem to have high self esteem, absent of personality disorders, how do you know if people actually do, or if they're posturing to protect themselves, and in that sense how is it measureable in the realm of psychology?
Hi there....what I didn’t used to understand is that self image and self-esteem are two different things. I have a good self image but low self-esteem. That low self-esteem is tied into many of my issues and my AP tendencies. Faith, how would you distinguish self-imahe from self-esteem?
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 20, 2018 18:11:30 GMT
leavethelightonI'm curious to see what goldilocks will say, but I'd say... AP thinks, "I wonder if my looks are why my girlfriend has been texting me less?" goes and gets the same haircut as her ex, takes the most flattering gym selfie he can, asks his female friend if it's a good photo, texts it to his girlfriend and obsessively checks his phone for a reply. I agree with tnr9- as an AP I never thought rejection or abandonment had anything to do with my looks. Not in the least. It always hit me at an emotional level. I think: “He’s pulling away- he’s not responding...he’s leaving me. He doesn’t want me.” I never attributed any of those feelings to my looks. Again, self image and self esteem are two different things. I recognize I’m an attractive girl by most standards who’s in good shape with a good job and on the surface have a lot to offer. Guys don’t complain about my looks- it’s the emotional neediness that would shut down my avoidant ex. He still wants me physically 11 months post break up. So, if I don’t get a text back from the guy I’m with- I don’t get a new haircut or shop for new clothes....panic would just rise up within me and overwhelm me and I would have no reason why for this irrational reaction. Moving to secure- I’m much better in the wait, the time and space doesn’t elicit the same panic and fear. It’s progress.
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 20, 2018 18:13:01 GMT
In a lot of threads here people like to differentiate DA and FA partly on whether one has high self-esteem or low self-esteem
This perplexes me a bit. Can someone's self-esteem be more variable than that, particularly in different domains of life?
Like I am not sure whether I have high or low self esteem because in some areas of life it is low, and in other areas high. More specifically, when it comes to things like my looks, ability to flirt, ability to attract people, desireability, etc., mine was always low. But when it comes to things like school, the intellect, work ethic, morality, ability to move around in the world independently, it's always been high.
Though of course as I've aged and matured I'm able to see the ways that hierarchies don't really exist or don't have to-- that everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, that nobody is really all that inherently better than anyone else.
Anyway, I'm not sure I agree that one's self esteem is just high or low, necessarily.
Also in terms of people who may seem to have high self esteem, absent of personality disorders, how do you know if people actually do, or if they're posturing to protect themselves, and in that sense how is it measureable in the realm of psychology?
Self esteem can certainly be more complicated that high or low or even a continuum. I’d say most people exist somewhere on a continuum and osiclate in a fairly narrow range but not everyone. Some people have high self esteem in some areas and low in others. I’m not talking about moments of doubt, everyone has that. Some people have high self esteem in there abilities and achievements but ow self esteem in their social abilities. I have been pulling back from someone whom I can’t tell if they are AP or FA, extremely anxious at the very least. His self esteem is very complicated. He over estimates his intelligence and ability to read people, is very confident in his looks and charisma when he needs it, thinks he can do just about anything if he puts his mind to it and thinks everyone wants to be or should want to be him. Flip side, he knows he is bad at realarionships. He often blames his partners or partner choice but at times shows real introspection that deep down he knows it’s his fault. He thinks of himself as a bad person and writes a lot of fiction about a gay couple, the evil one is who he really is, the good one is the one he wishes he could be. He’s very aware that most people don’t like him rather quickly but is unsure why and very often literally thinks his problems are everyone else being wrong about how things should be. I’ve never met anyone with simultaneously such high and low self esteem, which is part of why I can’t tell if he is AP or FA. Sounds like high self image, low self esteem.
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 20, 2018 18:18:28 GMT
Hi there....what I didn’t used to understand is that self image and self-esteem are two different things. I have a good self image but low self-esteem. That low self-esteem is tied into many of my issues and my AP tendencies. Faith, how would you distinguish self-imahe from self-esteem? Hey, Epic- my therapist described it to me as my physical attributes and abilities as having to do with my self image. I realize I’m in good shape and I’m attractive by typical standards and have a good job- that all contributes to my healthy self image; HOWEVER, my self esteem is another story. The feeling of unworthiness or being unlovable or unacceptable in some way, not confident asserting my needs- accepting low standards for oneself, feeling unheard or unseen....that all has to do with self-esteem and is more influenced by internal feelings and emotional factors.
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 20, 2018 18:45:49 GMT
This incessant obsession with self confidence not only breeds narcissism but also disconnects us from our common humanity. It's normal to not feel great all the time, to have doubts, to feel less than - - truly confident people have a kind of inner resilience which allows for failure, for the inevitable downs as well as the ups. That "it's normal to not feel great all the time." Is something that deserves underscoring to me. Hell, it sounds insane not to know this, but the first thing I learned from my attachment theory journey is that it is 'ok' and actually good to hold your partners hand in a time of stress. Lol! I know it's almost a cliche in mental health the "it's ok to not be ok" but until I actually hit the bottom that allowed me to sign up for this site I had no idea that i shouldn't just be projecting a false image of happiness and competence all of the time. Obviously now I realize that this makes intimacy and connection, not just with lovers but with friends, totally impossible. Interesting...you learned it’s ok to hold your partner’s hand and reach out in time of stress, and on my AP journey, I had to learn to be independent- that it’s ok to alone and to learn how to self-soothe without falling apart and feeling abandoned. The triggers are all around me in a relationship- AP’s are hypersensitive to any withdraw. This is the first time I’ve been without a partner for this long. It’s been 11 months- I haven’t been alone this long since I was 13 years old. I’m not as fearful of being alone- Epic, are u feeling more comfortable reaching out for help and admitting you have actual needs? That you’re worthy to love and be loved? Your needs don’t make you less human- they connect you with humanity!! I reach out too much- you withdraw. Maybe we learn from each other!!
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 21, 2018 12:48:12 GMT
leavethelighton I'm curious to see what goldilocks will say, but I'd say... AP thinks, "I wonder if my looks are why my girlfriend has been texting me less?" goes and gets the same haircut as her ex, takes the most flattering gym selfie he can, asks his female friend if it's a good photo, texts it to his girlfriend and obsessively checks his phone for a reply. I agree with tnr9- as an AP I never thought rejection or abandonment had anything to do with my looks. Not in the least. It always hit me at an emotional level. I think: “He’s pulling away- he’s not responding...he’s leaving me. He doesn’t want me.” I never attributed any of those feelings to my looks. Again, self image and self esteem are two different things. I recognize I’m an attractive girl by most standards who’s in good shape with a good job and on the surface have a lot to offer. Guys don’t complain about my looks- it’s the emotional neediness that would shut down my avoidant ex. He still wants me physically 11 months post break up. So, if I don’t get a text back from the guy I’m with- I don’t get a new haircut or shop for new clothes....panic would just rise up within me and overwhelm me and I would have no reason why for this irrational reaction. Moving to secure- I’m much better in the wait, the time and space doesn’t elicit the same panic and fear. It’s progress. Completely agree and it is so Pavlovian.....that feeling that space, time apart is in reaction to me..it makes the natural ebb and flow of a relationship so challenging to navigate because I over react to both the time apart and the ancipation of the coming back together..it is so draining...all the hypervigilence that says "the success or failure of the relationship falls to me". Thus I am so focused on you to ensure that I am not screwing up....it is a huge weight for an AP. I am needy because my attachment system keeps telling me to check in..make sure it is ok. The freedom is in those precious moments where I can let you be you and me be me and it isn't personal and my system is at rest. My self esteem is tied to the other person because that is how I judge my impact to myself and to the world...letting that go is a process of choices to be ok when it doesn't feel ok.
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Post by lilyg on Oct 21, 2018 14:37:16 GMT
Completely agree and it is so Pavlovian.....that feeling that space, time apart is in reaction to me..it makes the natural ebb and flow of a relationship so challenging to navigate because I over react to both the time apart and the ancipation of the coming back together..it is so draining...all the hypervigilence that says "the success or failure of the relationship falls to me". Thus I am so focused on you to ensure that I am not screwing up... This first part I can feel whenever something bad happens. I do try to remember it's a matter of two but it's difficult for me to not feel very responsable on how the state of my relationship is.
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