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Post by ocarina on Nov 1, 2018 22:14:44 GMT
I have been involved in some support organisations IRL over the years, focusing primarily on the ability to provide emotional support for people in extreme distress. One of the key points was that giving advice - whilst it was what many callers thought they wanted, was very far from what they actually wanted and what made them feel cared for and heard. Instead, these extremely distressed people benefited from really being heard without judgment - and from this point it was my experience that very often they were then able in some way to find their own way out of their pain, be empowered to start there own journey.
Giving advice can sometimes seem - to the person on the receiving end, like not being truly heard and appears as a negation of their own internal experience. There are very very many organisations and support places that will signpost people from one place to another to fix issues - but in times of real distress, perhaps sometimes it would help, if advice is not being received and pain is obvious, to cast aside our own ideas for a few moments and listen to the experience - it doesn't mean letting go of our opinions or beliefs, but putting them in another room for a few moments in order to be present with a fellow human.
I know I often get carried away with my own rightness and frustrated by others inability to notice what is blatantly obvious to me - but part of this, if I am totally honest, is my own need to feel right and a kind of security that feeds on being certain of my own convictions. Maybe I am alone in this rather shameful admission.
I listened to an interesting radio program this week - The Digital Human on Radio 4 - Rescue series 15. Apologies I couldn't share the link but put this in a search engine and you should come across the podcast. It's encouraged me to think deeply about why I contribute here and what that contribution brings to me and to the people with whom I interact.
I am interested to hear from others since one of the threads that runs through this forum is that self reflection is a good thing, what do you gain from your participation on these boards? What do you hope the posters that you interact with gain from your input?
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Post by ocarina on Nov 1, 2018 22:17:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 22:25:29 GMT
i think Jeb said it best on the other thread.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 22:46:19 GMT
really, it's down to each participant to decide what they are comfortable with.
i'm sorry you find yourself kind of conflicted about what you're sharing. you've voiced it before, a need to be right. i don't identify with that, i don't feel perhaps as engaged in a debate as you may? i'm not sure what your motivation is in posting, mine is to share a perspective, as it is.
i find an online forum to be useful for some things but not all. and i agree with Jeb's assessment on the other thread.
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Post by epicgum on Nov 1, 2018 22:52:08 GMT
Great post. Very interesting and I agree with the general thrust. I too of course can be carried away with my own rightness/triggered/angered and be insensitive and lash out. It is interesting in that the topic of our conversation centers largely around childhood wounds and --as has been pointed out before by others--these wounds can sometimes cause us to lash out against each other and repeat the attachment dynamic here in our own digital world. (I know that I've seen myself do this, both in anger and also in my more normal passive manner being alternately needy for replies and then overwhelmed by replies and needing to disappear to.)
As to "why we don it" my reasons would be as follows.
1. I receive compassionate support from kind and sympathetic people who are also in pain or who understand my pain, as well as (in my view) the specific attachment reasons for my pain. I really have a deep need to know "why did this happen to me" and most people unfamiliar with attachment theory cant understand in quite the same way. I am so grateful for the people who have offered me support and reached out to me.
2. It is meaningful to me to feel that I can provide emotional support and understanding to others suffering in a similar way. It also helps me to make meaning out of my suffering; ie. I may be in incredible pain , but at least it is not for naught if my own personal insight can help others to understand and improve their lives. This would fall under the "contributing to something larger something greater than yourself" as a way of managing difficult emotions.
3. I want to better understand myself and my past and future romantic partners. I am a naturally curious person and I also with to heal myself and not make the same "mistakes" in the future. Contributing, writing, reading other peoples contributions helps me to make sense of the whole system. I hope that this will provide a written record for both others and myself to follow and refer back to.
4. The semi anonymous nature of these forums allows me to be more open than I otherwise might be, and to "practice" being a more normal, assertive human.
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Post by ocarina on Nov 1, 2018 23:04:03 GMT
really, it's down to each participant to decide what they are comfortable with. i'm sorry you find yourself kind of conflicted about what you're sharing. you've voiced it before, a need to be right. i don't identify with that, i don't feel perhaps as engaged in a debate as you may? i'm not sure what your motivation is in posting, mine is to share a perspective, as it is. i find an online forum to be useful for some things but not all. and i agree with Jeb's assessment on the other thread. I too agree with Jeb - and for the most part I find my engagement here to be really helpful, useful, supportive of myself. I can sense when the "rightness" thing kicks in, when I become just a little too evangelical and there's a need at that point to step back. “People take different roads seeking fulfillment and happiness. Just because they’re not on your road doesn’t mean they’re lost.” ~Dalai Lama I like this quote reminds me that my road is a perception and just that - not an ultimate truth. I think some of my discomfort with advice per se does stem from years of training and work for the organisation I mentioned in the first post - where the giving of advice was viewed as counterproductive in many cases - it was actually a really useful experience in learning to provide support from a place of true understanding rather than one coloured by my own views on what was right or wrong. I do think the digital medium has real advantages - and it's an odd and slightly surreal experience exposing ones inner workings to a panel of total strangers. I personally always thought the Catholic tradition of confession had its uses - now that most of us have ditched that kind of religion, maybe the online forum has become a replacement. Anyway - no real discomfort on my end - but a continuing curiosity. |
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Post by ocarina on Nov 1, 2018 23:05:40 GMT
And yes epicgum - all those resonate with me, especially number 4.....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 23:21:50 GMT
really, it's down to each participant to decide what they are comfortable with. i'm sorry you find yourself kind of conflicted about what you're sharing. you've voiced it before, a need to be right. i don't identify with that, i don't feel perhaps as engaged in a debate as you may? i'm not sure what your motivation is in posting, mine is to share a perspective, as it is. i find an online forum to be useful for some things but not all. and i agree with Jeb's assessment on the other thread. I too agree with Jeb - and for the most part I find my engagement here to be really helpful, useful, supportive of myself. I can sense when the "rightness" thing kicks in, when I become just a little too evangelical and there's a need at that point to step back. “People take different roads seeking fulfillment and happiness. Just because they’re not on your road doesn’t mean they’re lost.” ~Dalai Lama I like this quote reminds me that my road is a perception and just that - not an ultimate truth. I think some of my discomfort with advice per se does stem from years of training and work for the organisation I mentioned in the first post - where the giving of advice was viewed as counterproductive in many cases - it was actually a really useful experience in learning to provide support from a place of true understanding rather than one coloured by my own views on what was right or wrong. I do think the digital medium has real advantages - and it's an odd and slightly surreal experience exposing ones inner workings to a panel of total strangers. I personally always thought the Catholic tradition of confession had its uses - now that most of us have ditched that kind of religion, maybe the online forum has become a replacement. Anyway - no real discomfort on my end - but a continuing curiosity. i love your input, ocarina! i'm always amazed by and appreciative of your eloquence and wisdom. i'd try to emulate it but it would be very difficult for me. i just love the way Jeb put it. there are real advantages to the online thing, and real drawbacks too. i think it's a matter of knowing what the difference is between IRL intimate settings with people you can see and hear and know the identity of, vs. digital text communication. we all know the limitations of it. we all know that the most intimate and personal conversations shouldn't be had by text. but this is the medium we have here. the expectations need to reasonably be adjusted. we aren't all best friends or therapists. but our real perspectives and experiences can be life changing even if painful. we have all experienced good and bad here i'm sure. and, many people come here suffering primarily from their own delusions. seriously. there isn't a great way to address that and protect someone's tender feelings- that really is the place of a therapist or close confidante. like Jeb said, i've not seen much intentional hurt. it's overall a pretty good space to kick things around. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 23:28:46 GMT
When you think about it, the different people in our lives wear different hats of privilege and responsibility towards us - for instance, I do take a pretty person-centred approach in my counselling practice with clients (I've only been practising for a year though, training for 2), but I do use interventions when it seems helpful to a client. It's my responsibility in that arena to facilitate a space for a person, act as a mirror for them and be big enough in my boots to hold whatever they bring. In my personal life, I have integrated some of how I work and what I've learned, but I disclose so much more - I give feedback so much more. I expect those things too from the people in my life. I think sometimes people think that because of what I do, I must be ultra empathic, but the truth is, sometimes the more empathic approach gets forgotten in my life, especially when I'm online, and doesn't always feel intuitive. When I take off my therapist hat, and I want to share what I know, even though I know from my work that it isn't always what people want or need, but it's hard not to take on that role when I'm not in my professional role, if that makes sense. I want to show up and be seen, I want to contribute, I want to give my experience and knowledge and I want to feel valuable to those around me for what I know and maybe that is part of what motivates me to give advice... to know I am showing up with my life experience. I'm not sure if that highlights a need to be right or a need to be useful (even when someone says it isn't useful) I suppose I am still figuring out these things... but Jeb was right, and you are right, that people have to be eased into knowing something for themselves. It must seem crazy that I forget that sometimes when I'm on my computer. Like Jeb said, you don't see someone's eyes when you type.
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Post by ocarina on Nov 1, 2018 23:42:10 GMT
Oh Juniper that I was as eloquent and wise as you say..... and you're right up there on both those fronts. Thank you though - that's a very lovely thing to hear.
Whenever I feel my Zealot streak kicking in I always remember the Buddhist (again) story of meeting the Buddha on the path and killing him.... which for me, means when I feel that kind of ultimate self righteousness, I am inevitably getting a bit preachy and so firm in my belief that there's no space for anyone else and I need to wind my neck in.
Most importantly and this will really show how unwise I am - how do I tag other people in posts on here!?
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Post by ocarina on Nov 1, 2018 23:44:00 GMT
When you think about it, the different people in our lives wear different hats of privilege and responsibility towards us - for instance, I do take a pretty person-centred approach in my counselling practice with clients (I've only been practising for a year though, training for 2), but I do use interventions when it seems helpful to a client. It's my responsibility in that arena to facilitate a space for a person, act as a mirror for them and be big enough in my boots to hold whatever they bring. In my personal life, I have integrated some of how I work and what I've learned, but I disclose so much more - I give feedback so much more. I expect those things too from the people in my life. I think sometimes people think that because of what I do, I must be ultra empathic, but the truth is, sometimes the more empathic approach gets forgotten in my life, especially when I'm online, and doesn't always feel intuitive. When I take off my therapist hat, and I want to share what I know, even though I know from my work that it isn't always what people want or need, but it's hard not to take on that role when I'm not in my professional role, if that makes sense. I want to show up and be seen, I want to contribute, I want to give my experience and knowledge and I want to feel valuable to those around me for what I know and maybe that is part of what motivates me to give advice... to know I am showing up with my life experience. I'm not sure if that highlights a need to be right or a need to be useful (even when someone says it isn't useful) I suppose I am still figuring out these things... but Jeb was right, and you are right, that people have to be eased into knowing something for themselves. It must seem crazy that I forget that sometimes when I'm on my computer. Like Jeb said, you don't see someone's eyes when you type. Wise words |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 23:49:51 GMT
the thing is, for me as a DA- the strange breed often inquired about...
i don't know what's going on in the head of the AP poster... but i can share my DA perspective and that's what i do.
i don't feel a need to change their perspective i'm just offering mine since it will likely be much closer to the actual reality of their DA than what they may be guessing.
and yeah, sometimes it sucks.
but that's the thing- the AP/DA dance sucks.
i'm one of the few voices here that can lend a DA perspective so i do, without qualms.
i'm not here to hurt anyone, and i'm not AP. or FA. i'm the dreaded DA. it is what it is.
and, i'm not a therapist. i'm just a formerly deeply dismissive recovering with the help of a forum and lending my perspective to this whole mess.
largely, it is a mess. a lot.
a lot of mess.
i don't know that it's any more offensive to post what i do, than to come on here and post the controlling and demeaning stuff i perceive in some new AP posts.[
!!! on that point. i bite my tongue a fair amount.
it is what it is, i don't get too wrapped up about it. if i don't like something i say so, but it's still an open forum.
i don't have the expectations here i would for an intimate IRL setting and i'm ok with that.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 23:54:30 GMT
oh- and i welcome the block feature both ways. no censors.... but the block function is your very own censorship tool, available as you wish. happy posting!  |
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Post by goldilocks on Nov 2, 2018 0:29:17 GMT
I do take a pretty person-centred approach in my counselling practice with clients (I've only been practising for a year though, training for 2), but I do use interventions when it seems helpful to a client. It's my responsibility in that arena to facilitate a space for a person, act as a mirror for them and be big enough in my boots to hold whatever they bring. In my personal life, I have integrated some of how I work and what I've learned, but I disclose so much more - I give feedback so much more. I expect those things too from the people in my life. I think sometimes people think that because of what I do, I must be ultra empathic, but the truth is, sometimes the more empathic approach gets forgotten in my life, especially when I'm online, and doesn't always feel intuitive. When I take off my therapist hat, and I want to share what I know, even though I know from my work that it isn't always what people want or need, but it's hard not to take on that role when I'm not in my professional role, if that makes sense. There is a lot of value in the distinction between a professional consult, feedback from a friend and replies on an internet forum. A professional can be expected to be client centered, holding space for the process of the client without personal feelings and needs being brought into the interaction. When I go to my therapist, she is there to help me with what I want to work on and that is valuable and worth paying for when I have issues I want to do extensive work on. With a friend, I expect some empathy and advice, but with our deep bond and personal feelings being central to the interaction. My mileage may vary when it comes to benefits on my healing process, but I expect to find some connection and exchange even if it is clumsy. On an internet forum, I can meet people from all walks of life with a variety of perspectives. I may or may not agree with them and some may even annoy me. But I get such breath of viewpoints! I have made a real friend here and enjoy the company of many of you! But I also have people on my blocklist and people I consider too unstable or needy to interact with. There are support forums by type, when used as such they do provide a safe container to express healing and hurting stories in a supporting environment. I have noticed that they are often nott used as such, which is a poor use of resources. IMHO, an AP coming to the DA forum looking for DA imput should not expect to be landing on a soft pillow and fed marshmallows. |
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Post by goldilocks on Nov 2, 2018 0:33:10 GMT
i'm not here to hurt anyone, and i'm not AP. or FA. i'm the dreaded DA. it is what it is.  Dreaded! So am I. I am sometimes sweet and sometimes salty! And if I am only allowed to whisper sweet words, I´d rather keep my distance. This is my free time, and I am under no obligation. |
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