How to Help Without Engulfing / Coming Across Controlling

Yes, absolutely! In my own experiences, I have felt there is a little bit too much emphasis on canned CBT approaches and `sending people off to suicide hotlines', and not really enough use of DBT (distress management therapy) and other therapeutic approaches. And you're right, that `listening' or `coddling' (as you call it) can veer off into enabling type behaviour that doesn't help at all. 

Beyondblue are moving more towards mentored peer support therapy because its proven to be very effective.  They just get bogged down by funding issues a bit. I like the fact that these groups are mentored, and peer leaders are held accountable for their own mental health issues.

One good thing I can say about Aussie mental health is there isn't too much of that `just put 'em on meds' mentality. 

(PS Sorry to hear about your experience with severe depression and coming close to suicide. It really is hard to find the right help, I know)




 

Sigh ..... the professional’s patronising “I know what’s best for you”.... I don’t know what’s best for anyone, all I can do is give my experience.

serenity, I’m not sorry that attempt happened at all. I sure didn’t like the pain. I had been in good therapy but it was getting nowhere. I didn’t expect a magic spell, and was used to introspection but I was stuck going round and round in circles.

After I came back from that, I had a mental rearrangement that wouldn’t have happened otherwise. I had to sweep my side of the street regardless of what anyone else did.

Sympathy is between s**t and syphilis in the dictionary. It’s useless. It’s patronising. The one phrase I see here all the time that infuriates me is “I’m sorry you had to go through xyz” Life’s custard has lumps. It’s how we see it. Do I see an opportunity to grow? To change? To see where my old ideas have to be tossed out and replaced with something more useful? Relevant?

Well let's see, I'm avoidant in relationship with another avoidant and Im taking care of myself and developing more secure attachment. So uh, yeah, I'm living proof that the two are not mutually exclusive.

The difference? We are in a relationship, and he is in therapy also. He's calling me, we are talking about the progression of our relationship, and my work on my ow attachment style is what I'm documenting here.

I don't see where Caroline's needs have been addressed regarding clear communication, boundaries, and accepting that he denies a relationship. I do see that the word count pertaining to him and his behavior is very high.

I've seen (((hugs))) and take a bath and have a cry but from you, nothing about "Do you see your own attachment narrative at play?" or anything like that- it's been interpreting him and making assumptions and giving her advice on how to conduct herself so as not to scare him or whatever. I think it's awful advice about preserving her barely there connection with him instead of encouraging her connection to HERSELF.

Your advice might be appropriate for a mutual relationship not involving an AP who is clinging to a man who denies a relationship with her and texts her only twice a week. My opinion it is enabling in this instance, and absurd. You are enabling her own attachment dysfunction at a time when she could be exploring the deep wounds and seeing how they express in her current situation.

However: she is an adult and so are you and you are free to engage however you like and certainly she is free to make her choices.

I do think your posting here is canned BS in this situation tho. It's syrupy and lacks substance when it comes to what is going on in Caroline. the focus always shifts to mind reading that magical creature the alleged FA.

Do you see the absurdity of this? Are we helping a friend or looking for a mutual relationship?

Are you advice Caroline to pursue a mutual relationship with this guy? Isn't that what we all aim for? Or do you think she is already in one?

Oh wait- is it his needs we aren't guilt tripping?

OH WAIT HE DENIES THE EXISTENCE OF ANY RELATIONSHIP AND DOESNT BEHAVE LIKE HE IS IN A RELATIONSHIP.

Carry on, making it mutually beneficial. Absurd.

Anyway, I have made my point but I really think you should show this post along with the poem one (what the hell lol) to your mentor. It's wacky to me but maybe it's not to the organization giving you reviews, idk.

Ok.....so...I will speak as this seems to have become a thread of FA and DA voices....so I will speak to AP for a moment.

Serenity...you have good intentions...however....what is being a bit lost here is that APs cling to “hope”. Those of us with this attachment style are looking for any sign that the person of our desire will not leave us. Hope in of itself is not a bad trait...and it does make an AP much more in-tuned to his/her “partner” or “person of interest”. The bad part is that it is hope that is based on fear of that person “abandoning” him/her....not on anything real that would drive actual hope. It is instinctual...it is automatic...it drives what others are calling “manipulative” behavior, but to an AP it is trying to be “accommodating”, “giving”, “other focused”, “helpful”. There is also “reading into” very normal and mundane and non personal actions or statements as if they are personal and “making up stories” based on random, unrelated pieces of information. Again...this is instinctual....it just “happens” and it takes a lot of awareness to counteract it.

What I would really recommend is not to feed the hope....even I read your posts and had to fight my own daily desire for B to come back. Every single thread where someone would talk about what would work with an FA, every single post outlining what an FA would need....I took all of that in and started to automatically adjust, strategize...in hopes it would change things...yep...manipulative...but understandably so since that is all I have known how to do since I was an infant. I got stuck there....it seemed to work...or at least I could say I tried....it does sound like justification...but I can’t act from a place that I don’t know....adjusting myself has been my answer for decades...that does not change in a day...being authentic comes with risk of abandonment and that fear is so big...it requires a safe person to practice that on...someone who will be there in the aftermath to answer the “are we ok?” Question with a “yes”. Thankfully B is that person for me, even if he does not want to be anything more than friends.  I have seen many posters just stop at the “you are being manipulative” part without fully appreciating the fact that being vulnerable has been a self fulfilling prophecy for the AP....the person ends up abandoning us...the one thing that we desperately/instinctually want to avoid...so we go back to what works....which is those manipulative behaviors you hate....because they work “sometimes”.

I think the real answer here is to speak honestly about what is known...not feeding the hope, not denying the fear....but simply asking about Caroline and how she is doing. Remind her that she is worthy of love regardless of what this guy does. Empathize with that little girl that thinks that relationships are so fragile, they can be lost based on one slip up...one misplaced word, an ill written text, missed “sign”, misunderstood action. It is tiring and exhausting but it is what the AP knows. Don’t feed the hope by reading into the actions and thoughts of the other person...the AP does that well enough on our own.

Caroline....I hope you find that person who you can be vulnerable with....who will stick by you through fear, anger, sadness...whatever. Whether that be a friend or a significant other...when it is ok to be you and feel that fear and yet...that person is still there...that is how you break this cycle. Love yourself enough to know that when someone is not there for you...he is simply feeding a long establish pattern....and it will not change. If the words and actions are not congruent....ask, don’t assume....and don’t give more hoping to get more if more is something he is incapable of. Let him go in love....you will be ok. Feel free to message me any time. I have walked that well travelled road for decades. 💕 from one AP to another....you can do this...one day at a time.

Calm down, juniper. You aren't behaving any less spiteful than those hurting AP you scold.