|
Post by stu on Sept 3, 2019 7:54:31 GMT
Curious to know something about de activations. Of course I expect each person going through a de activation is different and no one is wired exactly the same. But how often does de activation periods with avoidants involve getting involved with other partners or people?
I am currently seeing an FA who is currently going through a de activation, but we we're heading into a relationship type of situation before this happened. I plan to express to them that I do not want to stay involved together when she reaches back out, if she is involving herself with other people during these periods of distance and silence.
But is this something that commonly occurs or does it depend on the person? In the past with this person they had lied to my face on several occasions as well, so I had just been rebuilding trust with them, and even when I ask them this question. I won't be sure they are being 100 percent honest.
I am trying to sort out my boundaries right now, and things I can accept vs not. And it's difficult to be emotionally available and attached to someone who is randomly ambivalent and can. Though after reading everything I know now. I totally understand the other side and why the behaviors I saw for so long are going on. I know I can handle periods of needing space and other things of that nature, but I know I can't be taking things seriously if other people get involved in the picture. And its kind of a nerve wrecking thought that a period of de activation, or distancing could easily lead to an episode of cheating, or being replaced. I want to date someone who is faithful and committed and deserve that but sometimes wonder if de activation and distancing strategies significantly raise the risk of affairs and cheating.
|
|
|
Post by hannah99 on Sept 3, 2019 16:25:32 GMT
This is unacceptable regardless of attachment type.
My da ex cheated on me and I spent a lot of time using attachment theory to understand his actions. And maybe his attachment did contribute but it's not an excuse.
Protect yourself and work on your own boundaries.
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Sept 3, 2019 16:50:08 GMT
Curious to know something about de activations. Of course I expect each person going through a de activation is different and no one is wired exactly the same. But how often does de activation periods with avoidants involve getting involved with other partners or people? I am currently seeing an FA who is currently going through a de activation, but we we're heading into a relationship type of situation before this happened. I plan to express to them that I do not want to stay involved together when she reaches back out, if she is involving herself with other people during these periods of distance and silence. But is this something that commonly occurs or does it depend on the person? In the past with this person they had lied to my face on several occasions as well, so I had just been rebuilding trust with them, and even when I ask them this question. I won't be sure they are being 100 percent honest. I am trying to sort out my boundaries right now, and things I can accept vs not. And it's difficult to be emotionally available and attached to someone who is randomly ambivalent and can. Though after reading everything I know now. I totally understand the other side and why the behaviors I saw for so long are going on. I know I can handle periods of needing space and other things of that nature, but I know I can't be taking things seriously if other people get involved in the picture. And its kind of a nerve wrecking thought that a period of de activation, or distancing could easily lead to an episode of cheating, or being replaced. I want to date someone who is faithful and committed and deserve that but sometimes wonder if de activation and distancing strategies significantly raise the risk of affairs and cheating. I don’t think that is attachment related....I think that is tied to respect...and it sounds like this person is disrespecting you and you are not putting a strong enough boundary to provide self care. Honestly...I would walk away...plenty of other people out there that will not cheat on a partner.
|
|
|
Post by averyleigh on Sept 3, 2019 17:21:45 GMT
Curious to know something about de activations. Of course I expect each person going through a de activation is different and no one is wired exactly the same. But how often does de activation periods with avoidants involve getting involved with other partners or people? I am currently seeing an FA who is currently going through a de activation, but we we're heading into a relationship type of situation before this happened. I plan to express to them that I do not want to stay involved together when she reaches back out, if she is involving herself with other people during these periods of distance and silence. But is this something that commonly occurs or does it depend on the person? In the past with this person they had lied to my face on several occasions as well, so I had just been rebuilding trust with them, and even when I ask them this question. I won't be sure they are being 100 percent honest. I am trying to sort out my boundaries right now, and things I can accept vs not. And it's difficult to be emotionally available and attached to someone who is randomly ambivalent and can. Though after reading everything I know now. I totally understand the other side and why the behaviors I saw for so long are going on. I know I can handle periods of needing space and other things of that nature, but I know I can't be taking things seriously if other people get involved in the picture. And its kind of a nerve wrecking thought that a period of de activation, or distancing could easily lead to an episode of cheating, or being replaced. I want to date someone who is faithful and committed and deserve that but sometimes wonder if de activation and distancing strategies significantly raise the risk of affairs and cheating. Hi stu, I read somewhere that you can only be emotionally available for someone if you have the emotional ability to love yourself. For a long time I didn’t understand this and kept doubling down in similar situations, but I think she is showing you everything you need to know through her actions. You should never feel like you are giving or sacrificing more than what you are receiving. I think it’s important to yourself that you differentiate what you are bound to in this relationship...is it the way it was in the beginning? Bound to the way it is making you feel now? What is it about her that is making you hold on? Have you looked up trauma bonds and see if that may apply? You have to be honest with yourself and examine if this partner is helping you be your best. A good partner or friend should make you feel secure in what you both have. I’d imagine in no circumstance would you let your siblings or loved ones doubt their worth and carry on in a situation that you mentioned above. If you wouldn’t want a loved one to deal with this, why are you different? I am sorry to hear you are going through this but I hope you are candid with her when you see her and ask her all the things you have been dying to know. Just pay attention if her words match up to her actions.
|
|
|
Post by stu on Sept 3, 2019 19:14:24 GMT
I don’t think that is attachment related....I think that is tied to respect...and it sounds like this person is disrespecting you and you are not putting a strong enough boundary to provide self care. Honestly...I would walk away...plenty of other people out there that will not cheat on a partner. I agree as well. Having being cheated on before, it rips your trust for years and years. Esp if you already have a core attachment of fear of abandonment. I still fight everyday to push that immediate “go to” conclusion out of my head - even when it’s 100% not justified. Easier said than done sometimes in theory, but I would spare yourself all of that. People only change when they want to and are ready... and sometimes people never change... trust has to be a core foundation of a relationship. I know it’s so painful... so take care of yourself, talk it out (here, with others, etc), and go easy on yourself... but know you don’t deserve to constantly doubt yourself and if you’re being lied to or not. Yes, thanks Caroline and to everyone else that chimed in. The situation right now is not that she has not involved herself with others yet. But the stress that it could potentially happen. Based on the fact that in the past she was able to lie to my face about different things without any thought. Also in the past she had told me she was scared about messing things up and wanted to protect herself after a period of us getting very close and her expressing vulnerability. Two days after that she was being publicaly cutesy with another guy though. And a mutual friend who bumped into her told me about it, which is also how I only ever knew about some lies she told me in the past as well. Because we have mutual friends who tell me things which are the opposite of what she would say in the past as well. These two things really hurt me in the past and for a while I stopped talking to her and distanced myself. But we eventually talked through things and cleared things up. She did feel like shit about how she treated me and told me she doesn't deserve me in her life, and I should not be nice to her after all she did. The broken trust about it is still there for me. But I know she isn't a narcissist or anything of that nature, because she feels remorse and has a general consensus. Though sometimes her de activations can come across as callous and insensitive. Anytime things seem off now it makes me more uncomfortable because of those past experiences and her ability to lie to me before. She also told me she got involved with that other guy to push her feelings for me away, which I couldn't tell was a legitimate avoidant behavior, or just a lame excuse. we weren't exclusively dating at that point. But she gave me the image that we we're and talked together saying there was no one else in the picture for either of us on several occasoons. She also knew how much I liked her and that I wasn't messing around with other girls too. So her words vs actions felt pretty manipulative All in all I am trying to build very strong boundaries as I will not involve myself in this if other people are in the picture again, but it's hard to trust her word on that. And the other thing is that sometimes her avoidance, de activation, and distancing can come across as stringing me along, disrespect, or a lack of concern for my well being. I know without a doubt she is FA and was diagnosed, and I've actively seen her shell up and become extremely guarded when she is triggered, and all the signs of it. She also mentioned she pushes away everyone in her life at some point, and has a habit of cutting people out of her life. And that people suffocate her.she also mentioned that she doesn't trust anyone, even her best friend. And she sometimes feels like everyone wants something from her, or wants to use her. She knows this isn't normal thinking though and knows she needs help with herself which is what she is doing. She is working on herself and has a ton of positive qaulities. But some of the red flags and past behavior just make me veer on the side of caution. I do still really like her a lot and the only reason I've stayed after everything now is because I am under the impression that the past situations and behaviors were directly a result of her avoidant attachment issues and now that she is working on herself that it wouldn't be an issue anymore. She never cheated on me though. Just gave me the impression that it could happen based on character traits she showed before. Though I hate having to acknowledge that. If anyone thinks this is all still matter of respect or something separate from her attachment challenges let me know, as what I am also trying to figure out is what is true and what isn't and right now that isn't totally clear for me yet. I want to know what I can handle vs can't.
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Sept 3, 2019 19:49:41 GMT
I am under the impression that the past situations and behaviors were directly a result of her avoidant attachment issues and now that she is working on herself that it wouldn't be an issue anymore. This is putting a lot on the other person, and involves seeing potential over reality. If you read through the board, it usually takes at least a couple years to earn secure and get consistent. She's got to work through both her view of herself (she doesn't deserve you or think you should be nice to her is indicative of a pitiful state of self-esteem that's going to be taken out on others until she's healing) AND the distrust of others. Those are two different sets of issues and it takes a long time to work out each -- and that's if she chooses to stick with the self-work even when it inevitably gets uncomfortable and difficult.
|
|
|
Post by stu on Sept 3, 2019 20:17:30 GMT
I am under the impression that the past situations and behaviors were directly a result of her avoidant attachment issues and now that she is working on herself that it wouldn't be an issue anymore. This is putting a lot on the other person, and involves seeing potential over reality. If you read through the board, it usually takes at least a couple years to earn secure and get consistent. She's got to work through both her view of herself (she doesn't deserve you or think you should be nice to her is indicative of a pitiful state of self-esteem that's going to be taken out on others until she's healing) AND the distrust of others. Those are two different sets of issues and it takes a long time to work out each -- and that's if she chooses to stick with the self-work even when it inevitably gets uncomfortable and difficult. I am not trying to put a lot of pressure on her though, I just don't have full trust again yet. I don't mind her going through difficult stuff and supporting her or giving her any space she needs. I do care about her and like her a lot and am not trying to paint a bad picture but being transparent about a lot of negative things. It's just in relation to the original question I asked for this thread. She is an amazing girl with a lot of great qaulities, literally anything I would ever want in a person. I did forgive her for lying before and don't think she is a pathological liar or anything. But the point of my post now is just that I don't want to get cheated on if I end up in a relationship with her. Because it would hurt a lot. And I want to rebuild my trust in things too. I don't want her to be different or change to be with her. I just don't want to be lead on or have to deal with the pain of betrayal that's all.
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Sept 3, 2019 20:32:40 GMT
stu, I didn't say you're putting pressure on her. I'm saying it's a lot to put on someone in your own head-- to expect they're going to change in order for the relationship to work. Where things are right now don't meet your needs, and it's not fair to yourself to keep hoping this will get resolved in the near future. This could easily take years. You said you're trying to figure out what you want and can tolerate, but in focusing on yourself that includes seeing things how they are if they don't change instead of hope and fantasizing about the future.
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Sept 3, 2019 20:34:30 GMT
She is all these things, both positive and negative.
|
|
|
Post by stu on Sept 3, 2019 21:00:57 GMT
stu, I didn't say you're putting pressure on her. I'm saying it's a lot to put on someone in your own head-- to expect they're going to change in order for the relationship to work. Where things are right now don't meet your needs, and it's not fair to yourself to keep hoping this will get resolved in the near future. This could easily take years. You said you're trying to figure out what you want and can tolerate, but in focusing on yourself that includes seeing things how they are if they don't change instead of hope and fantasizing about the future. Ok I understand now, I think things are okay right now. I just had concerns because of things before that happened could point to me being put in a really rough situation in the future. Unless you mean about everything that's happened until this point. My immediate needs are just being with someone who is faithful and committed. Her having other things going on is fine , I just don't want to fully invest in one person if they aren't only invested in me too. Or going to seek others out. Nothing else really bothers me or would feel like it's not meeting my needs. I will see what happens when I talk with her again though. I don't have any hopeful outcome, I just want to know where to put myself and having an understanding of what we both want and need together. This time recently that we were dating I never brought up any "talks" because I just wanted to enjoy things without pressuring, so after we talk again I'll finally know what things are for each other and if it could work or not. It would be nice to have her work on herself while I do the same for myself, and to support and encourage her to help heal the woundings. I want to show her that some people truly do care and can love someone whole heartedly, and that she deserves the best for herself.
|
|
|
Post by serenity on Sept 4, 2019 5:25:09 GMT
Great that you can articulate your boundaries so well Stu. If she does circle back soon, do you feel that you'd be able to talk about the fidelity issue with her? Most people do want the benefits of fidelity (and resulting security and privacy) from their partner, so its a win-win situation for her as well.
I think the act of breaking an attachment coldly and ghosting a partner is inherently dangerous in terms of fidelity personally. But not all FA's have personality disorders like NPD or lack empathy. You're right to judge her on her own merits, her opportunities, and her history with you and others.
|
|
|
Post by stu on Sept 4, 2019 7:45:03 GMT
Great that you can articulate your boundaries so well Stu. If she does circle back soon, do you feel that you'd be able to talk about the fidelity issue with her? Most people do want the benefits of fidelity (and resulting security and privacy) from their partner, so its a win-win situation for her as well. I think the act of breaking an attachment coldly and ghosting a partner is inherently dangerous in terms of fidelity personally. But not all FA's have personality disorders like NPD or lack empathy. You're right to judge her on her own merits, her opportunities, and her history with you and others. I definitely know what I am looking for, what I want vs what I dont want. My boundaries in relationships, and what I want with a partner and making sure we are on the same page. My ex was possibly BPD so I know what that experience was like. It was a lot different of a vibe then this. I haven't felt anything to feel this particular person is a narcissist either. I am not trying to judge the FA either, I am just trying to keep strong discernment. The fact is although we had many great things together, I am very attracted to her, and we are very compatible in a lot of ways. She still lied to my face in the past in several instances , without ever coming around to tell me the truth. I found out through others and told her I knew after some time. The other thing that makes me uncofmrtable is when she pursued another guy to push her feelings for me away , in her words. This being right after we we're heading into a serious thing and talking a few days prior where she expressed she liked me a lot but was really scared of messing things up and getting hurt. it makes no sense to me that she would say those things to me while we were still talking, knowing I wanted something serious together and then turning around a couple days later and doing that. If she did it before I feel like it could happen again if it's a pattern of hers that happens with de activation or distancing, or whatever it may be. We were not in a relationship at that time but to me it came across as dishonest and confusing. She always told me there was never other people in the picture in the entire time we were seeing each other. Because I always told her I don't really want to see someone if I really like them and they are still seeing others. It's fine if it's talked about and acknowledged together and then I would adjust my mindset accordingly, to see if I felt okay seeing someone non exclusively and casually. But I don't like to start off my relationships in that way, especially if myself and the other person already talked about really liking each other and seeing where things go together. Then that wouldn't make any sense, I'm not interested in pursuing other people if I feel like that. It's a big core value of mine, and really important to me. I don't like thinking about someone I really care about and like being with other people. And if someone wants those things I would like to know so I know where to place myself and put my mindset because I certainly would not attach myself to them as much, or try to think anything long term might come out of it.
|
|
|
Post by serenity on Sept 4, 2019 8:30:18 GMT
I feel the same way, like if you're going to be polyamourous or have an open relationship, then negotiate that. Talk about it in depth so you can manage your expectations and behaviour. Don't pretend fidelity to make one partner loyal, so you can go about being `open', replacing them and ghosting them.
|
|
|
Post by stu on Sept 4, 2019 8:53:56 GMT
I feel the same way, like if you're going to be polyamourous or have an open relationship, then negotiate that. Talk about it in depth so you can manage your expectations and behaviour. Don't pretend fidelity to make one partner loyal, so you can go about being `open', replacing them and ghosting them. Exactly, I would never be okay with that and the idea of it makes me feel used and betrayed. In the case of someone pretending to be exclusive or committed to keep me loyal while the other person wants to have extra "fun". I could never do that to someone and it's a huge waste of their life and time. I've been cheated on before, worst feeling ever as it is. I think in this particular situation though my anxiety about it was more centered around distancing strategies and de activations, and all the things I read when reading about attachment theory about how some people seek out affairs, or other partners, sometimes secret partners to keep emotionally distant and independent. Or because of a lack of attachment and thought about the other person in de activation. That all combined with what happened with this FA before for me makes me a bit uncomfortable and nervous about a possibly higher likelyhood of that happening. Which is why I hope I can talk soon and clear that out if my FA reaches back out and we still see each other in any way.i don't want to go through anything like that if I can avoid it as much as possible. She hasnt done anything more recently to make me feel that way though.
|
|
|
Post by goldilocks on Sept 4, 2019 10:21:01 GMT
I am currently seeing an FA who is currently going through a de activation, but we we're heading into a relationship type of situation before this happened. I plan to express to them that I do not want to stay involved together when she reaches back out, if she is involving herself with other people during these periods of distance and silence. What is this and what expectations do you have for this connection?
|
|