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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2019 15:40:52 GMT
Also- the compassion flies out the window soon enough.
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Post by dhali on Oct 29, 2019 15:52:03 GMT
Almost everyone here, discussing their ex, would be way better off just letting them go (easier said than done). It’s just withdrawal and your own low self esteem keeping you attached. I’d recommend working in your self esteem (I’m not exempt here).
Your ex is just that, an ex. It wasn’t meant to work out. Maybe they came into your life to fix this part of you. What they do, and their attachment systems is none of your business anymore. None. It’s also just not your problem. It’s theirs. You may care about them,but you’re not in charge of them. You can’t save them, and it’s arrogant to think you can - especially when you aren’t working hard to help yourself.
Here’s something that will instantly improve your life and bring the right person to you- make it your mission to make sure every service person you interact with, every day, you’ve made their day better. Be charming. Ask how their day was. Comment on their earrings. Tell them you like their hair style. Empathize with the long line hey have to work through. Do this everyday. Before you know it you’ll be king of town, and you’ll have women/men noticing you for being a valuable person- the opposite of how your ex feels about you.
This is an easy thing to do, and it will change your life.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2019 16:01:38 GMT
I take the position that aligns with the thread in the general forum about how we never pick the wrong partners. Our choices reflect areas inside yourself that need attention, or celebration, essentially. Even narcissistic abuse survivor websites point to the need for the victims of narcissists to improve their own emotional health, because without the blind spots and poor boundaries and altered perceptions, they wouldn't have fallen prey. That's not victim blaming! That's good help. As for me, I live that there are answers out there for me. What a relief. But, it's also true that anyone can be wherever they are with it all. One thing I like about the psychologist that I just shared in the general section, is that even when he is pointing out a dynamic that's unhealthy in another he challenges the listener to examine themselves and improve how they are relating. He's awesome, I wish he was my uncle. He's got a good sense of humor and I wish I had someone in my family like him.
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Post by stu on Oct 29, 2019 16:02:17 GMT
I think it also helps to detach from the specific labels and not identify so much with one particular one. For own sense of identity not being so wrapped up into it. We all have childhood wounds and triggers and how we handle them in our own individual ways. There just happens to be a particular pattern of mal adaptive strategies that happen for people based on the type of environment they were involved with and how their body and mind chose to cope as a response. Interesting.....question for you....can you move forward with that non label approach with the girl you dated or will she always be referred to as FA? The reason I ask is i see a pattern of wanting separate sets of rules...rules that apply to ourselves versus rules that apply to others. I don't need to give her the FA label either it just helps on this forum to describe better the particular set of behaviors that were going on with her. I would hope she would not feel the need to attach to the label herself while working through it either. However i can't move forward with her at all if you mean a continued connection. Let's take FA out of the equation. And then just say behaiors and actions alone and it stjll paints the picture of the type of person that I don't want to have any kind of connection to anymore. Too damaging and painful to be attached to. |
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Post by dhali on Oct 29, 2019 16:03:49 GMT
The objectivity can be hard for some people. It doesn’t matter why a person ghosts you (or treats you poorly in some other way). They ghosted you and no matter how amazing they are (mine was amaaazing also....except in treating another human decently), you can’t function in a relationship with someone who acts this way until they work on their issues. Reading the harsher realities and having support from friends who cared about me enough to tell me the truth, risking me getting upset with them, was what helped me consistently work towards being less compassionate towards someone who was not offering me equal treatment. Why would I keep looking for it from him? And these patterns repeat in stories on here over and over and over again. But most people look for validation. It’s okay to want or need that in part, especially in feeling certain ways. But you can’t continue the same dysfunctional behavior and expect something to result differently. And you can’t control anyone but yourself. This is spot on. And none of it is meant to be *mean*. It's brutal honesty. If someone ghosts you for anything over a day and a half, and you're in a relationship, there better be a good reason why. And if you don't have that conversation, then you're writing your own future - and it's not one of a secure, reciprocal relationship. It's also the definition of walking on eggshells. I think many are used to not knowing how a caring person really treats their significant other. It's not this way. Run, don't walk away if someone ghosts you without a deep conversation about it. Take the pain, because you have no choice. This person isn't going to be one who ever makes you feel good. You deserve better. We all do. |
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Post by stu on Oct 29, 2019 16:06:42 GMT
I’ve said it before, and it seems to not be a phrase people like, but as a self described FA, it applies to me too... scorpion and the frog. The scorpion needs to admit it’s a scorpion, and work extra diligently to not be one. Without that, it’s just a scorpion, the frog is toast, and everything else is just theater. Oh, and those compassionate explanations- that, to me, is a huge AP sign. The avoidant isn’t being as generous to you, most likely. Sure the scorpian analogy fits perfect in this situation. But speaking compassionately is just part of my nature. I also experience rightful anger and many other enotions as well. And I'm sure and don't expect my ex to be feeling the same things. She already showed plenty enough with her actions how she feels. And not something I want a part of anymore |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2019 16:08:20 GMT
As to deactivating- I don't ghost but I can vouch from personal experience that it's not a fight state in the nervous system (sympathetic) its a freeze (dorsal vagal parasympathetic). Someone who doesn't experience a dorsal vagal state can't relate. It's a dampening, not an attack. It's retreat. Unless it's done from a narcissistic stance of inflicting punishment. I think that there is plenty of that that goes on also!
Nonetheless, it's not ok to ghost, and I feel the same way you do @janedoe . The impact on the ignored person is damaging. Most people will speak out against behavior that they see is harming another.
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Post by dhali on Oct 29, 2019 16:09:23 GMT
Also, you're helping your FA out by just disappearing. And don't ever go back. I'd recommend never replying to a text of theirs again. Just disappear. That's the strongest message you could give them, and is the most likely message to get them to change.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2019 16:10:53 GMT
The objectivity can be hard for some people. It doesn’t matter why a person ghosts you (or treats you poorly in some other way). They ghosted you and no matter how amazing they are (mine was amaaazing also....except in treating another human decently), you can’t function in a relationship with someone who acts this way until they work on their issues. Reading the harsher realities and having support from friends who cared about me enough to tell me the truth, risking me getting upset with them, was what helped me consistently work towards being less compassionate towards someone who was not offering me equal treatment. Why would I keep looking for it from him? And these patterns repeat in stories on here over and over and over again. But most people look for validation. It’s okay to want or need that in part, especially in feeling certain ways. But you can’t continue the same dysfunctional behavior and expect something to result differently. And you can’t control anyone but yourself. This is spot on. And none of it is meant to be *mean*. It's brutal honesty. If someone ghosts you for anything over a day and a half, and you're in a relationship, there better be a good reason why. And if you don't have that conversation, then you're writing your own future - and it's not one of a secure, reciprocal relationship. It's also the definition of walking on eggshells. I think many are used to not knowing how a caring person really treats their significant other. It's not this way. Run, don't walk away if someone ghosts you without a deep conversation about it. Take the pain, because you have no choice. This person isn't going to be one who ever makes you feel good. You deserve better. We all do. Unavailable is unavailable, and also like attracts like. If you are with someone abandoning you, somewhere along the line you abandon yourself. |
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Post by stu on Oct 29, 2019 16:14:10 GMT
Also, you're helping your FA out by just disappearing. And don't ever go back. I'd recommend never replying to a text of theirs again. Just disappear. That's the strongest message you could give them, and is the most likely message to get them to change. It would be hard to blatantly ignore any attempt of them reaching out if they were truly feeling remorseful and trying to make amends but agreed. Nothing else really demonstrates how far they pushed someone who only ever tried to be a good person and treated them extremely respectfully. If I let things go and just re connected in anyway it takes away from the intensity and how badly it affected me of their actions before. Things I find inexcusable and without the chance of mending. |
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Post by dhali on Oct 29, 2019 16:23:09 GMT
Stu- You don't have to mend things with everyone. Her actions tell you it's not a priority of hers, it shouldn't be one of yours. Find better people in your life. And please don't make excuses for her behavior. You deserve better - it doesn't matter if she's capable of better - she's not giving it to you. And arguably never has.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2019 16:37:10 GMT
dhali I get that. I have never ghosted, never left someone on ignore or without an explanation. I guess because I feel ok saying where I'm at, if I am done or cannot value the relationship. This is a dealbreaker in terms of human relating, for me, both ways. I think it's become way too prevalent with electronic communication and online dating and the new dating culture. But I think it's horrible. There is a lot of research and attention on it and there should be. I don't see any expert out there saying "Tolerate it and let them come back unchallenged." It's EXTREMELY Unavailable behavior. Doesn't mean it's intentionally evil. But it defies dignity and respect. I guess there is a spectrum of behaviors and this one is on the deep end for me.
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Post by dhali on Oct 29, 2019 16:41:19 GMT
Totally. As for intentionally evil, maybe it's not, but it's universally known as bad behavior.
Intentions are cute, but actions are all that matter, and all you need to know about a person. And if their actions go against how they intend to be as a person, then you really, really, don't want to be with that person.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2019 16:47:04 GMT
Totally. As for intentionally evil, maybe it's not, but it's universally known as bad behavior. Intentions are cute, but actions are all that matter, and all you need to know about a person. And if their actions go against how they intend to be as a person, then you really, really, don't want to be with that person. For me, it keeps it simple to just have it as a red line, without losing myself to trying to interpret it one way or the other. All it means to me is THIS PERSON IS NOT SAFE FOR THEMSELVES OR FOR ME. And, I'm not Mom. Each of us have a personal, adult journey. I have not seen codependent behavior around ghosting work out well for anyone. Maybe there is a story out there with a happily ever after but usually it seems the ghosted eventually makes better boundaries and chooses healthier partners, having found out that they aren't equipped to heal that person, they have to take good care of themselves too, the problem is way deeper than loyalty can fix, and life goes on. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2019 17:07:16 GMT
1) No one knows what is going on inside the head of a ghosting person although copious amounts of time are spent by codependents being ghosted, to spin that in a way that allows them to help and not be abandoned.
2) People who ghost do not generally turn to the person they are ghosting for deep healing. They turn to therapists, support, etc. This myth of saving avoidants is perpetuated by romantic comedies but in real life, we know that an avoidant has to wake up to their own patterns and that doesn't happen with enabling.
3) A sense of shame about poor behavior MAY lessen the value of the relationship to the ghoster, as they seek to distance themselves from this person that they don't engage well with.
I've seen it written many many times that someone bottoms out and moves on, one or the other, people dont grow together by acting seriously dysfunctional at the same time.
Ghosting/trying to heal the ghoster are two ends of the dysfunctional spectrum. They feed each other. They don't fix each other. Someone, show me the research that says otherwise. There may be an instance here or there. But largely, this is just the dance, just the pattern, unless two people are aware, and in the therapist office together, in a mutual commitment to make it improve.
In many of these circumstances, a real relationship is blatantly denied by the ghoster; and that plays out exactly as expected by everyone but the person being ghosted.
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