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Post by tnr9 on Oct 30, 2019 1:50:39 GMT
stu , is it because you can tell a more compassionate story about ghosting whereas you can't really gloss over someone dating someone else? There's no way to spin that into a positive narrative that doesn't involve some amount of real rejection? All I can say is, some people always assume that once an ex has engaged with someone else, they have "replaced" THEM, and further, the ex is treating the new person better and has changed in all the ways they wanted. Truth is, (ex) partners with low self-esteem are constantly running away from their own negative feelings about themselves, and their own disgust with their own failures. One way to cope with that without confronting it directly and working on it (ie one way of avoiding it) is to seek out comfort in another's positive attention. It isn't about you being replaced. It's about a lack of ability to self-regulate on that ex partner's end and am immature way to fill the void. And that new person? You have no idea what the relationship is like. Crap alexandra...stop getting inside my head...šš. But in all seriousness...the above is me....I get these pictures from time to time of how wonderful it must be for B and the new girl and how I am slowly but surely being written out of his life. I was his longest gf at 10.5 months, yet I am utterly convinced by these stories that he will propose and marry this girl. Ugh. š |
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Post by stu on Oct 30, 2019 1:53:41 GMT
Am I the only one who is able to not really mind the ghosting as much as being replaced without any kind of talking at all, or knowing things had ended for the other person to that extent? I guess with ghosting I figured it was always just a person needing to de compress and feeling overwhelmed but they would come back when they were ready, and I didn't mind spending time by myself during those periods. But being ghosted AND replaced that's what really really irks me personally Do you think though there is a different dynamic for you because you run in the same circles? So (and I think you said this after your post), you assumed you'd hear from her again? I knew I would hear from her again at some point because there is no way she can actually permanently ghost me based on how our dynamics were. Unless I completely stopped involving myself In the same circle we were both involved in and left the community, or she did. All of this is said in vain though after Alexandra's recent post it really put the whole situation into full perspective, and it really was just not something I should have involved myself with after the first red flags were ever seen. I had a lot of hopes, assumptions, and expectations that were not firmly planted in the reality I was standing on with my own two feet. And perhaps she had tried to show me a part of herself out of appeasement and people pleasing that wasn't completely who she was underneath the mask. I am not saying she is an immoral or bad person. Just someone with too many unresolved issues to be a reliable partner in any way shape or form. That's hard to write because it sounds really mean, but I mean based on actions that's exactly how it is. |
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Post by stu on Oct 30, 2019 1:55:09 GMT
I don't know if it's what every FA is doing when they are distancing. I can speak to DA which is for me, My attachment is shut down and no romance is to be had- it ain't there! I'm swimming in futility and I'll come back. But it's an optimistically overlooked possibility. All of the insecure styles have a hurtful side, and I don't need to go into all the ways I've been mistreated by AP, even with a therapist looking on- I don't need validation for that. What I'm saying is- communication answers these questions , unless you're being straight up lied to and that's another can of worms, going to manipulation and outright dishonesty. Every insecure partner is unavailable in some way. That's been established by the pros. I tried to quote- this is referring to introducing a new partner. As in triangulation and a love triangle? I usually see that as more of a BPD spectrum or personality disordered behavior but I suppose the same can happen with insecurely attached as well. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2019 1:55:56 GMT
Been there, plenty of hate for the DA on this forum. Remember the first post by NYC? She thought he was a DA. Then someone else chimed in, awful. Yep, the only group not getting flamed regularly is AP. Is that because they don't misbehave or because avoidants show more restraint? IDK. But I'll stick to MY point: ghosting is not good. And that means from any attachment type!! Not even DA  I know you remember @inmourning or @sherry or whatever else names you go under, because you took my first post personally and reacted as such. And you've done it to others and been called out on it. Ghosting is not good, but in my experience, the only full out ghost in my life who ghosted forever was a DA, and it turned out to be a blessing. I dodged a gigantic bullet by having him out of my life. Yes sherry also, as I wrote on the post when I responded to a post of faithopelove's I believe. Yes, sometimes we dodge bullets. šÆ |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2019 1:56:25 GMT
I tried to quote- this is referring to introducing a new partner. As in triangulation and a love triangle? I usually see that as more of a BPD spectrum or personality disordered behavior but I suppose the same can happen with insecurely attached as well. Like what happened to you. |
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Post by stu on Oct 30, 2019 1:58:32 GMT
Yeah I agree with those sentiments exactly. I mean she said she wanted to work on herself and was self aware and I just assumed she meant that more seriously then her actions later demonstrated. I didn't go in being blind or without her having any idea of attachment theory and her own challenges at all. It just wasn't a situation where it was being seriously worked on enough. And with that my assumptions and interpetations from all the research and reading, and talking to others. I wasn't seeing the situation clearly for what it was and was getting false hope of a better outcome from things I was picking up on my own. Being aware of this stuff and really engrossing yourself in it can lead to some expectations or hopes that might not fit the reality of the situation when it gets down to it I suppose. Saying all of this with rationality and words online is a lot different then being directly in the situation though. Being in love with someone and having a real bond together. Being in a situation that has a lot of upsides but also the looming threat of the triggers you know could go off at any moment and not knowing how it will turn out. Being mentally, emotionally, and physically involved in the situation fully. It's hard to separate a lot of what's happening and get space and clarity. There's so much going on all at once. And each day that went by I just tried my best to be the type of person that could be best supportive and encouraging while helping myself as well. But it just felt like such wasted effort and investment in the end. With how things ended up turning out. I'm sure after the trauma of the shooting and all of that, all of that horrible trauma, she was a bright spot and you were really feeling like things would be ok. A silver lining. I'm very sorry for how things happened and really hope you do get grief support, and trauma support. May I also suggest Somatic Experiencing!! Look it up on the web if you aren't familiar. There are practitioners worldwide and you can do it over video call. I rave about it because what it's doing for me , the attachment branch of the modality. Related but not exactly the same process. Thanks I really appreciate all of that, she was in a sense a way of holding onto things before the shooting and trying to have a sense of normalcy and stability. We met at the place the mass shooting happened and saw each other for a few months at that same place many times before the shooting happened. And then continued to see each other and be in each others lives after as well. Part of losing things with her is also a sense of grieving the loss from the trauma as well. I think I had a harder time letting go of her because pursuing her and our dynamic ended up being somewhat of a distraction from healing from the over all trauma and really processing everything that happened over all with the mass shooting itself. I have been in therapy and have grieved a lot after the shooting, but I will look into that as well and see if it can help. Thankfully I don't have too many strong symptoms of PTSD from the incident. Just a lot of grief and over all challenges that I need to work out still. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2019 2:01:24 GMT
I'm sure after the trauma of the shooting and all of that, all of that horrible trauma, she was a bright spot and you were really feeling like things would be ok. A silver lining. I'm very sorry for how things happened and really hope you do get grief support, and trauma support. May I also suggest Somatic Experiencing!! Look it up on the web if you aren't familiar. There are practitioners worldwide and you can do it over video call. I rave about it because what it's doing for me , the attachment branch of the modality. Related but not exactly the same process. Thanks I really appreciate all of that, she was in a sense a way of holding onto things before the shooting and trying to have a sense of normalcy and stability. We met at the place the mass shooting happened and saw each other for a few months at that same place many times before the shooting happened. And then continued to see each other and be in each others lives after as well. Part of losing things with her is also a sense of grieving the loss from the trauma as well. I think I had a harder time letting go of her because pursuing her and our dynamic ended up being somewhat of a distraction from healing from the over all trauma and really processing everything that happened over all with the mass shooting itself. I have been in therapy and have grieved a lot after the shooting, but I will look into that as well and see if it can help. Thankfully I don't have too many strong symptoms of PTSD from the incident. Just a lot of grief and over all challenges that I need to work out still. Please check out traumahealing.org (I think is the website). Peter Levine. |
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Post by stu on Oct 30, 2019 2:02:27 GMT
As in triangulation and a love triangle? I usually see that as more of a BPD spectrum or personality disordered behavior but I suppose the same can happen with insecurely attached as well. Like what happened to you. exactly what happened to me, more then once too. And something I didn't expect to happen from someone who doesn't have a personality disorder. Though it felt more like cycling through different people to keep herself occupied then use them as a tool to control or manipulate the other. The last time she did this I stopped talking to her entirely for over 6 weeks, until our friend made us re connect and I ended up forgiving her and hashing things out. at that point in time what she did was still very wrong because of how she was also acting with me, but because we never got too seriously involved or developed a very strong bond at that point I was able to let it go, this time around its worse because of all of those aforementioned reasons and why im glad to just be out of the situation now and on my way to healing fully, |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 30, 2019 2:04:08 GMT
I think I had a harder time letting go of her because pursuing her and our dynamic ended up being somewhat of a distraction from healing from the over all trauma and really processing everything that happened over all with the mass shooting itself. I have been in therapy and have grieved a lot after the shooting, but I will look into that as well and see if it can help. Thankfully I don't have too many strong symptoms of PTSD from the incident. Just a lot of grief and over all challenges that I need to work out still.Ā Perfect. I was going to suggest there was an amount of distraction in this, but I didn't want to go overboard with all that info at once. I think you're on the right track, though! |
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Post by serenity on Oct 30, 2019 2:06:11 GMT
I know you remember @inmourning or @sherry or whatever else names you go under, because you took my first post personally and reacted as such. And you've done it to others and been called out on it. Ghosting is not good, but in my experience, the only full out ghost in my life who ghosted forever was a DA, and it turned out to be a blessing. I dodged a gigantic bullet by having him out of my life. I didn't experience ghosting in my relationship with my FA ex either. In 15 months, the longest I was out of contact with my ex was 4 days, including the first deactivation (working together made it easier for him to make non-threatening contact). When I dumped him for verbally abusing me, he was apologizing and giving me gifts within 2 weeks. And even now, he's fawning, trying to make it up to me, offering help with stuff.(I'm done with him romantically) I think that's the mindfork of FA's..they can ignore and avoid conflict, but then come around and fully discuss it. They can stonewall, then return to normal when they are ready. They can cheat and then want you back. You will be the one to end it, not them usually  |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 30, 2019 4:16:02 GMT
stu , to me this boils down to communication. Because of all you just mentioned. I really do think it's very dicey to read about an attachment style and make assumptions about someone's behaviors and motivations and internal processes. None of that is ok. If you can't get communication you have to see that as real emotional danger. As much as you wanted to believe all of your assumptions and interpretations were true, they weren't. Studying attachment theory to the point that many do is super safe and helpful if you're in a committed relationship and both working on it. But in simply hopeful hands, it's a real killer. Communication has been touted as VITAL to any relationship (healthy, nurturing ones at leaat) but that requirement goes straight out the window when someone is interpreting an unavailable partner with the "literature". I'm sure that a lot of bias confirmation goes on (for good or for ill) , illusions are created, harm is minimized, etc etc. The problem of ghosting is about... NO communication. Anyone who thinks that can somehow be safe is operating on optimism I don't have, and I feel, for good reason. It's a matter of individual choice, for sure. But I'm pretty sure more people come to regret accepting no communication and maintaining their trust in spite of the silence.... than dont. I totally agree on communication and too hopeful for attachment theory. Itās a slippery slope. I think in my case, Iām mostly just confused and hurt that he came back from being out of the country and after that whole misinterpretation thing (which I apologized for while he was gone) and expressed kind words, that he likes me, etc then disappeared after I sent what I did two weeks ago. I totally agree that ghosting and no communication isnāt going to work, and isnāt healthy etc. We had made a lot more emotional progress until the misinterpretation / out of town thing which led into him expressing feelings when he got back then where we are now. While Iām trying my absolute best not to think about whatās going on for him or what heās thinking, itās hard... because Iām hurt and confused. Why open up and express that only to go away again? I get thatās what FAs do if itās that, but itās still confusing or I guess hard to take in esp when I thought we were about to make some progress. And the only thing that seems to make sense - which I get I shouldnāt be doing and I am trying not to - is the fear of intimacy, engulfment, pressure, avoidance shame, and/or combo of multiple... or that he was just joking with his words but heās never said those things lightly. - Have you ever tried directly communicating to him that it feels hurtful and confusing to you when he suddenly drops off and you donāt know why? It takes vulnerability at your end, but whenever I have been honest, direct and calmly stated those same feelings to my DA he has responded in a positive way- not in the middle of a conflict, but if I donāt hear back and I communicate this to him he answers me. Iāve also asked him to please try to answer in the future bc that would help me. Iāve seen a lot of progress after a few times of telling him this- if heās outside doing yard work and takes a few hours to respond, heāll usually start first w an apology and explanation. Now, if weāre already in a conflict and heās shut down and distancing, then my message has no impact. I need to bring it up in a non-activated, non-deactivated moment. Sometimes too there is miscommunication- I texted once and he didnāt respond, instead of letting my anxiety get the best of me, I just texted in a light, joking way that he mustāve had a lot of fun last night bc I didnāt hear back. He responded right away w an apology that he composed the text and forgot to hit āsend.ā I was so glad I reacted calmly and not in an activated way over a misunderstanding. Sometimes the negative narrative we assign is our own worst enemy- a lot of times!!! |
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Post by stu on Oct 30, 2019 7:50:19 GMT
I knew I would hear from herĀ again at some point because there is no way she can actually permanently ghost me based on how our dynamics were. Unless I completely stopped involving myself In the same circle we were both involved in and left the community, or she did. All of this is said in vain though after Alexandra's recent post it really put the whole situation into full perspective, and it really was just not something I should have involved myself with after the first red flags were ever seen. I had a lot of hopes, assumptions, and expectations that were not firmly planted in the reality I was standing on with my own two feet. And perhaps she had tried to show me a part of herself out of appeasement and people pleasing that wasn't completely who she was underneath the mask. I am not saying she is an immoral or bad person. Just someone with too many unresolved issues to be a reliable partner in any way shape or form. That's hard to write because it sounds really mean, but I mean based on actions that's exactly how it is.Ā That's not mean at all.Ā I think we discussed this before...seeing those signs. I hear you on that. I knew but thought I had time/space to investigate. I didn't realize that I was getting attached until he pulled back and it felt awful. I was suspicious from fairly early on though. He was really honest about some things (I really think due to a lack of boundaries) but likely manipulative about other things (guilting me bc of his tragedies in life). How can you fault someone who has really crappy things happen to them? So I wanted to stick around and get to know him better. Hindsight, you know? You seem to be handling all of this really well....not that you don't have things boiling underneath.Ā Yeah that's true. Even when you see the signs that things could potentially go south and try to be more detached, it doesn't really prevent how powerful our hormones can be and prevent yourself from getting strongly pair bonded to someone you love and care about. The empathy for what they are going through makes it stronger too. And wanting to be a geniune support. You go in knowing the potential risk but remain optimistic and hope for the best. Maybe to our detriment when certain issues present and we aren't really acknowledging them such as the ones Alexandra pointed out. How they comminicate, handle conflict, poor coping skills, emotional dysregulation. And then our choice to try and stick around and figure it out. Feeling like love can conquer all and all these fantasies of unlimited possibilities. I'm sorry you went through that too it really sucks there's no words to describe it. It especially sucks when you see them and feel that strong bond and attraction. Seeing them as they are whole. but it doesn't take away what's going on in their head and how tomultous if not outright impossible it makes being in a relationship together. Unless you don't mind seeing someone who will occasionally de activate from time to time and do god knows what until you see them again. It's fine if things are casual, but when they act like they want a deep and serious thing and then turn around and do the opposite it's just a very confusing experience. And it sucks for the person who gets more attached and stays more emotionally connected through the entire ordeal. Thanks I'm doing my best but I'm.struggling in a lot of ways too. Just depressed and burnt out over everything trying to take things day by day. I write a lot on these forums to get my thoughts out and avoid venting to hard to friends and family or god forbid reaching out to the ex with anger lol |
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