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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2019 0:48:59 GMT
Thanks Faith, it was actually just rhetorical, it doesn't really matter because thats just the chaff of all this angst (directed at me like the quote on this thread) -it's from the people experiencing the ghosting of their partners. I'm super clear that I didn't date them and they are just flamin'. I'm good! Am I the only one who is able to not really mind the ghosting as much as being replaced without any kind of talking at all, or knowing things had ended for the other person to that extent? I guess with ghosting I figured it was always just a person needing to de compress and feeling overwhelmed but they would come back when they were ready, and I didn't mind spending time by myself during those periods. But being ghosted AND replaced that's what really really irks me personally I'm sorry Stu, I was referencing the outright attack on DA (and me) based on me writing that I consider myself accountable to an intimate partner. That's the stuff I was referencing. But to your question. What I see is that the ghosting itself is a lack of communication of VITAL information- all the information you didn't have, that you found out the brutal way. The ghosting was the not giving you closure, not explaining that she was done, that she had moved on... I don't know all the details of your situation but the ghosting leaves so many questions unanswered and when you fill in the blanks (assuming she's just deactivating and will be back and your loyalty will be appreciated) you take a major risk. I don't see it as just and FA offense, DA and AP do it also- ghosting is always a sign that there is a major obstacle to forward progression and it has to be addressed without assumptions or glossing or hoping or tolerating without a real challenge and real evidence of addressing it. Again, my opinion but not a rare one. |
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Post by stu on Oct 30, 2019 1:05:56 GMT
Am I the only one who is able to not really mind the ghosting as much as being replaced without any kind of talking at all, or knowing things had ended for the other person to that extent? I guess with ghosting I figured it was always just a person needing to de compress and feeling overwhelmed but they would come back when they were ready, and I didn't mind spending time by myself during those periods. But being ghosted AND replaced that's what really really irks me personally I'm sorry Stu, I was referencing the outright attack on DA (and me) based on me writing that I consider myself accountable to an intimate partner. That's the stuff I was referencing. But to your question. What I see is that the ghosting itself is a lack of communication of VITAL information- all the information you didn't have, that you found out the brutal way. The ghosting was the not giving you closure, not explaining that she was done, that she had moved on... I don't know all the details of your situation but the ghosting leaves so many questions unanswered and when you fill in the blanks (assuming she's just deactivating and will be back and your loyalty will be appreciated) you take a major risk. I don't see it as just and FA offense, DA and AP do it also- ghosting is always a sign that there is a major obstacle to forward progression and it has to be addressed without assumptions or glossing or hoping or tolerating without a real challenge and real evidence of addressing it. Again, my opinion but not a rare one. That's okay man didn't take anything personally that anyone had mentioned to myself. But yes that is the huge issue and perhaps something I was just being ignorant about. Because I wrongfully assumed based on what I read about de activations, and heard from others here and other places. That typically it's just a shutting down of the attachment and the person usually comes back around when they are feeling better. I didn't think it was the same kind of ghosting as someone who would just leave without saying a word to someone and then never discussing anything thing with them again while they decided to be done and move on to new things. Especially with a background together that the girl and I had too. And everything that had happened between us up to that point. My own way of dealing with it was to just talk to her again when she was ready, and walk through it then when she wasn't de activated and unable to communicate fullu. Which is how this thread started when she did start talking to me again and then pursuing me, but already having seen this other guy and at that point I don't know why she would even bother. Unless it's an attention or low self esteem thing. She's still actively seeing him so why try and re engage me too? That's a loaded whestion though that goes beyond just regular attachment theory. My point is I just didn't think she was that kind of a girl but in the end regardless if it was initially due to de activation or not. That's the type of person she's now shown herself to be. Which is also why I'm just really dissappointed and permentantly cut the chord with her. Just lucky I didn't end up marrying or having kids with her while these issues we're still never sorted out. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2019 1:17:14 GMT
stu , to me this boils down to communication. Because of all you just mentioned. I really do think it's very dicey to read about an attachment style and make assumptions about someone's behaviors and motivations and internal processes. None of that is ok. If you can't get communication you have to see that as real emotional danger. As much as you wanted to believe all of your assumptions and interpretations were true, they weren't. Studying attachment theory to the point that many do is super safe and helpful if you're in a committed relationship and both working on it. But in simply hopeful hands, it's a real killer. Communication has been touted as VITAL to any relationship (healthy, nurturing ones at leaat) but that requirement goes straight out the window when someone is interpreting an unavailable partner with the "literature". I'm sure that a lot of bias confirmation goes on (for good or for ill) , illusions are created, harm is minimized, etc etc. The problem of ghosting is about... NO communication. Anyone who thinks that can somehow be safe is operating on optimism I don't have, and I feel, for good reason. It's a matter of individual choice, for sure. But I'm pretty sure more people come to regret accepting no communication and maintaining their trust in spite of the silence.... than dont.
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Post by serenity on Oct 30, 2019 1:25:46 GMT
. She's still actively seeing him so why try and re engage me too? That's a loaded whestion though that goes beyond just regular attachment theory. My point is I just didn't think she was that kind of a girl but in the end regardless if it was initially due to de activation or not. That's the type of person she's now shown herself to be. Which is also why I'm just really dissappointed and permentantly cut the chord with her. Just lucky I didn't end up marrying or having kids with her while these issues we're still never sorted out. Her reaching out to him when she was with you creates distance with you, and similarly reaching out to you when she's with him creates distance with him  It all fits with the unaware FA Mo unfortunately. |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 30, 2019 1:30:48 GMT
stu, is it because you can tell a more compassionate story about ghosting whereas you can't really gloss over someone dating someone else? There's no way to spin that into a positive narrative that doesn't involve some amount of real rejection? All I can say is, some people always assume that once an ex has engaged with someone else, they have "replaced" THEM, and further, the ex is treating the new person better and has changed in all the ways they wanted. Truth is, (ex) partners with low self-esteem are constantly running away from their own negative feelings about themselves, and their own disgust with their own failures. One way to cope with that without confronting it directly and working on it (ie one way of avoiding it) is to seek out comfort in another's positive attention. It isn't about you being replaced. It's about a lack of ability to self-regulate on that ex partner's end and am immature way to fill the void. And that new person? You have no idea what the relationship is like. If it's long-distance, maybe the guy is DA and doesn't even care that he can't have a healthy, close relationship with her when she pulls the same garbage on him. This woman repeated the same cycles and patterns with you she always displayed, and she'll continue to do so in general. She'll do it to him, too. It's not about you, it's not about the new guy, it's about her lacking all ability to be a decent partner. She can't communicate at all, she distances herself to avoid problems, and she doesn't take responsibility for anything. You can say she came back and apologized before so she does take responsibility, but repeating yourself (arguably even more drastically, since she introduced a new guy into the mix of distancing) after an apology and saying you won't do it again is bandaging things to stop the other person from being mad at you NOT taking responsibility at all. This doesn't reflect on you unless you allow it to. Focus on solving the more important issues you're facing right now and don't let this one drag you down any further.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2019 1:31:36 GMT
I don't know if it's what every FA is doing when they are distancing. I can speak to DA which is for me, My attachment is shut down and no romance is to be had- it ain't there! I'm swimming in futility and I'll come back.
But it's an optimistically overlooked possibility. All of the insecure styles have a hurtful side, and I don't need to go into all the ways I've been mistreated by AP, even with a therapist looking on- I don't need validation for that. What I'm saying is- communication answers these questions , unless you're being straight up lied to and that's another can of worms, going to manipulation and outright dishonesty.
Every insecure partner is unavailable in some way. That's been established by the pros.
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Post by stu on Oct 30, 2019 1:33:32 GMT
stu , to me this boils down to communication. Because of all you just mentioned. I really do think it's very dicey to read about an attachment style and make assumptions about someone's behaviors and motivations and internal processes. None of that is ok. If you can't get communication you have to see that as real emotional danger. As much as you wanted to believe all of your assumptions and interpretations were true, they weren't. Studying attachment theory to the point that many do is super safe and helpful if you're in a committed relationship and both working on it. But in simply hopeful hands, it's a real killer. Communication has been touted as VITAL to any relationship (healthy, nurturing ones at leaat) but that requirement goes straight out the window when someone is interpreting an unavailable partner with the "literature". I'm sure that a lot of bias confirmation goes on (for good or for ill) , illusions are created, harm is minimized, etc etc. The problem of ghosting is about... NO communication. Anyone who thinks that can somehow be safe is operating on optimism I don't have, and I feel, for good reason. It's a matter of individual choice, for sure. But I'm pretty sure more people come to regret accepting no communication and maintaining their trust in spite of the silence.... than dont. Yeah I agree with those sentiments exactly. I mean she said she wanted to work on herself and was self aware and I just assumed she meant that more seriously then her actions later demonstrated. I didn't go in being blind or without her having any idea of attachment theory and her own challenges at all. It just wasn't a situation where it was being seriously worked on enough. And with that my assumptions and interpetations from all the research and reading, and talking to others. I wasn't seeing the situation clearly for what it was and was getting false hope of a better outcome from things I was picking up on my own. Being aware of this stuff and really engrossing yourself in it can lead to some expectations or hopes that might not fit the reality of the situation when it gets down to it I suppose. Saying all of this with rationality and words online is a lot different then being directly in the situation though. Being in love with someone and having a real bond together. Being in a situation that has a lot of upsides but also the looming threat of the triggers you know could go off at any moment and not knowing how it will turn out. Being mentally, emotionally, and physically involved in the situation fully. It's hard to separate a lot of what's happening and get space and clarity. There's so much going on all at once. And each day that went by I just tried my best to be the type of person that could be best supportive and encouraging while helping myself as well. But it just felt like such wasted effort and investment in the end. With how things ended up turning out. |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 30, 2019 1:38:41 GMT
@inmourning, I'm saying she'd rather avoid conversation than not, which is distancing to avoid dealing with the problems.
Yes, I believe FAs are so disconnected from their feelings during deactivation that they can't even access them. And I've had FA exes not "notice" they deactivated and distanced from me because they did a form of disassociation then snapped out of it. So I'm not saying this is consciously what FAs are doing, but semantically, if you won't even respond to someone you know wants to talk just because you lost your feelings, you're still ghosting and avoiding communication to avoid dealing with problems.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2019 1:40:33 GMT
stu , to me this boils down to communication. Because of all you just mentioned. I really do think it's very dicey to read about an attachment style and make assumptions about someone's behaviors and motivations and internal processes. None of that is ok. If you can't get communication you have to see that as real emotional danger. As much as you wanted to believe all of your assumptions and interpretations were true, they weren't. Studying attachment theory to the point that many do is super safe and helpful if you're in a committed relationship and both working on it. But in simply hopeful hands, it's a real killer. Communication has been touted as VITAL to any relationship (healthy, nurturing ones at leaat) but that requirement goes straight out the window when someone is interpreting an unavailable partner with the "literature". I'm sure that a lot of bias confirmation goes on (for good or for ill) , illusions are created, harm is minimized, etc etc. The problem of ghosting is about... NO communication. Anyone who thinks that can somehow be safe is operating on optimism I don't have, and I feel, for good reason. It's a matter of individual choice, for sure. But I'm pretty sure more people come to regret accepting no communication and maintaining their trust in spite of the silence.... than dont. I totally agree on communication and too hopeful for attachment theory. It’s a slippery slope. I think in my case, I’m mostly just confused and hurt that he came back from being out of the country and after that whole misinterpretation thing (which I apologized for while he was gone) and expressed kind words, that he likes me, etc then disappeared after I sent what I did two weeks ago. I totally agree that ghosting and no communication isn’t going to work, and isn’t healthy etc. We had made a lot more emotional progress until the misinterpretation / out of town thing which led into him expressing feelings when he got back then where we are now. While I’m trying my absolute best not to think about what’s going on for him or what he’s thinking, it’s hard... because I’m hurt and confused. Why open up and express that only to go away again? I get that’s what FAs do if it’s that, but it’s still confusing or I guess hard to take in esp when I thought we were about to make some progress. And the only thing that seems to make sense - which I get I shouldn’t be doing and I am trying not to - is the fear of intimacy, engulfment, pressure, avoidance shame, and/or combo of multiple... or that he was just joking with his words but he’s never said those things lightly. I'm sorry to say - and I am NOT being mean! If he has said those things to you and you aren't in a relationship by now, or you think he said them with liquid courage, yes he did say they lightly and you took them heavily because anyone would. It feels good to be talked to like that. Not everyone can be accountable for what they say. |
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Post by stu on Oct 30, 2019 1:40:37 GMT
stu, is it because you can tell a more compassionate story about ghosting whereas you can't really gloss over someone dating someone else? There's no way to spin that into a positive narrative that doesn't involve some amount of real rejection? All I can say is, some people always assume that once an ex has engaged with someone else, they have "replaced" THEM, and further, the ex is treating the new person better and has changed in all the ways they wanted. Truth is, (ex) partners with low self-esteem are constantly running away from their own negative feelings about themselves, and their own disgust with their own failures. One way to cope with that without confronting it directly and working on it (ie one way of avoiding it) is to seek out comfort in another's positive attention. It isn't about you being replaced. It's about a lack of ability to self-regulate on that ex partner's end and am immature way to fill the void. And that new person? You have no idea what the relationship is like. If it's long-distance, maybe the guy is DA and doesn't even care that he can't have a healthy, close relationship with her when she pulls the same garbage on him. This woman repeated the same cycles and patterns with you she always displayed, and she'll continue to do so in general. She'll do it to him, too. It's not about you, it's not about the new guy, it's about her lacking all ability to be a decent partner. She can't communicate at all, she distances herself to avoid problems, and she doesn't take responsibility for anything. You can say she came back and apologized before so she does take responsibility, but repeating yourself (arguably even more drastically, since she introduced a new guy into the mix of distancing) after an apology and saying you won't do it again is bandaging things to stop the other person from being mad at you NOT taking responsibility at all. This doesn't reflect on you unless you allow it to. Focus on solving the more important issues you're facing right now and don't let this one drag you down any further. You hit the nail on the head completely and described things without filter in a way I was not due to my own rose tinted glasses. I don't really care about this other guy being better then me. I know who he is and how he is, and even more acoidant then her and someone who doesn't even live anywhere close to her. I know it's not going to work out between them and know neither one of them is happy. I don't really care about comparing myself to him and I know she's going to be the same with this guy too albiet acting more AP and all in for a bit because he triggers her anxiois side more. But none of that is my problem anymore. Like you said not worth dragging me down about. And I need to work on what matters the most right now which is myself. And you are right in your assessment I think I was seeing her in a lot more positive of a light then how things actually are because of my own hopes, illusion and desired outcome thrown into the mix. Thanks again Alexandra. Makes me feel a lot better seieng things in that way and being much more off put by her in general. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2019 1:42:06 GMT
@inmourning , I'm saying she'd rather avoid conversation than not, which is distancing to avoid dealing with the problems. Yes, I believe FAs are so disconnected from their feelings during deactivation that they can't even access them. And I've had FA exes not "notice" they deactivated and distanced from me because they did a form of disassociation then snapped out of it. So I'm not saying this is consciously what FAs are doing, but semantically, if you won't even respond to someone you know wants to talk just because you lost your feelings, you're still ghosting and avoiding communication to avoid dealing with problems. I'm sorry alexandra, I was referencing serenity's piece about distancing from stu and engaging the other dude and vice versa. My quote thing is wonky. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2019 1:43:04 GMT
@inmourning , I'm saying she'd rather avoid conversation than not, which is distancing to avoid dealing with the problems. Yes, I believe FAs are so disconnected from their feelings during deactivation that they can't even access them. And I've had FA exes not "notice" they deactivated and distanced from me because they did a form of disassociation then snapped out of it. So I'm not saying this is consciously what FAs are doing, but semantically, if you won't even respond to someone you know wants to talk just because you lost your feelings, you're still ghosting and avoiding communication to avoid dealing with problems. I'm sorry alexandra, I was referencing serenity's piece about distancing from stu and engaging the other dude and vice versa. My quote thing is wonky. I actually agree with your post 100%, and also agree with serenity's but not as an absolute. |
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Post by nyc718 on Oct 30, 2019 1:44:42 GMT
Notice there is an absence of fearful avoidant input in this thread? Been there, plenty of hate for the DA on this forum. Remember the first post by NYC? She thought he was a DA. Then someone else chimed in, awful. Yep, the only group not getting flamed regularly is AP. Is that because they don't misbehave or because avoidants show more restraint? IDK. But I'll stick to MY point: ghosting is not good. And that means from any attachment type!! Not even DA  I know you remember @inmourning or @sherry or whatever else names you go under, because you took my first post personally and reacted as such. And you've done it to others and been called out on it. Ghosting is not good, but in my experience, the only full out ghost in my life who ghosted forever was a DA, and it turned out to be a blessing. I dodged a gigantic bullet by having him out of my life. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2019 1:47:30 GMT
stu , to me this boils down to communication. Because of all you just mentioned. I really do think it's very dicey to read about an attachment style and make assumptions about someone's behaviors and motivations and internal processes. None of that is ok. If you can't get communication you have to see that as real emotional danger. As much as you wanted to believe all of your assumptions and interpretations were true, they weren't. Studying attachment theory to the point that many do is super safe and helpful if you're in a committed relationship and both working on it. But in simply hopeful hands, it's a real killer. Communication has been touted as VITAL to any relationship (healthy, nurturing ones at leaat) but that requirement goes straight out the window when someone is interpreting an unavailable partner with the "literature". I'm sure that a lot of bias confirmation goes on (for good or for ill) , illusions are created, harm is minimized, etc etc. The problem of ghosting is about... NO communication. Anyone who thinks that can somehow be safe is operating on optimism I don't have, and I feel, for good reason. It's a matter of individual choice, for sure. But I'm pretty sure more people come to regret accepting no communication and maintaining their trust in spite of the silence.... than dont. Yeah I agree with those sentiments exactly. I mean she said she wanted to work on herself and was self aware and I just assumed she meant that more seriously then her actions later demonstrated. I didn't go in being blind or without her having any idea of attachment theory and her own challenges at all. It just wasn't a situation where it was being seriously worked on enough. And with that my assumptions and interpetations from all the research and reading, and talking to others. I wasn't seeing the situation clearly for what it was and was getting false hope of a better outcome from things I was picking up on my own. Being aware of this stuff and really engrossing yourself in it can lead to some expectations or hopes that might not fit the reality of the situation when it gets down to it I suppose. Saying all of this with rationality and words online is a lot different then being directly in the situation though. Being in love with someone and having a real bond together. Being in a situation that has a lot of upsides but also the looming threat of the triggers you know could go off at any moment and not knowing how it will turn out. Being mentally, emotionally, and physically involved in the situation fully. It's hard to separate a lot of what's happening and get space and clarity. There's so much going on all at once. And each day that went by I just tried my best to be the type of person that could be best supportive and encouraging while helping myself as well. But it just felt like such wasted effort and investment in the end. With how things ended up turning out. I'm sure after the trauma of the shooting and all of that, all of that horrible trauma, she was a bright spot and you were really feeling like things would be ok. A silver lining. I'm very sorry for how things happened and really hope you do get grief support, and trauma support. May I also suggest Somatic Experiencing!! Look it up on the web if you aren't familiar. There are practitioners worldwide and you can do it over video call. I rave about it because what it's doing for me , the attachment branch of the modality. Related but not exactly the same process. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2019 1:49:01 GMT
I don't know if it's what every FA is doing when they are distancing. I can speak to DA which is for me, My attachment is shut down and no romance is to be had- it ain't there! I'm swimming in futility and I'll come back. But it's an optimistically overlooked possibility. All of the insecure styles have a hurtful side, and I don't need to go into all the ways I've been mistreated by AP, even with a therapist looking on- I don't need validation for that. What I'm saying is- communication answers these questions , unless you're being straight up lied to and that's another can of worms, going to manipulation and outright dishonesty. Every insecure partner is unavailable in some way. That's been established by the pros. I tried to quote- this is referring to introducing a new partner. |
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It all fits with the unaware FA Mo unfortunately.
