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Post by stu on Oct 21, 2019 22:14:13 GMT
I cannot imagine having to see my DA ex out in social circles after he ghosted me. It’d be like ripping off the scab every single week. A constant struggle between wanting to see them but then it hurting at the same time. I don’t know how you’ve done that for this long. I’d have changed my going-out locations. It’s bad enough seeing them on social media. I just watched a great TED talk about how to get over a break-up. The psychologist said that a breakup triggers the same pain in the brain that a heroin addict feels going through withdrawals. And when we constantly replay the highlight reel in our minds or think about the good memories or stalk their social media, we are just getting another “hit” of our drug and it hurts our healing and recovery. I listened to that and realized I had been doing all those things. So I have not looked at his social media since. And I made a list of all the bad things he did and all the bad feelings I had during our non-relationship (that really WAS a relationship). I have been visiting THAT list instead. Maybe cutting off all contact with her is a better way to go, Stu. For you and your heart. Honestly I feel pretty okay right now, not checking her social media and not feeling hung up on things, at first seeing her out without talking was hard but then I got used to it and didn't mind it much attention and it got easier. Even now with her trying to engage me and talking again I feel very centered and in control of myself. I know if I keep myself the way I am now I won't risk getting more hurt. But to get closer to her again means a lot of things happening from her end that I have no idea when or if that will happen. So for now I'm just treating things as done and acting accordingly unless that changes. I'm not trying to stay as just friends with her either. Just trying not to ignore her completely if I happen to bump into her either. |
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Post by stu on Oct 21, 2019 22:18:19 GMT
I'm in two minds about NC versus low contact as well. My ex works with me and to have NC would mean avoiding mutual friends for some months, and looking for a new job. In the first few weeks of us breaking up, I wanted very badly to leave my job. His behaviour ranged from snubbing me, then a public apology for his abusive outburst in front of important colleagues, then giving me a gift publicly (all this for managing his public image, i expect), to seeking me out to talk here and there. It did really feel so horrible. Its been hard. lately, the small amount of non-intimate contact he makes leaves me feeling a bit sad, but it also feels soothing to me...I think honestly the interactions have felt more like tapering off a drug, than receiving a full hit each time? I don't reach out any more and he's too fearful to make much effort himself, beyond those few hoovering attempts. I'm just going to keep backing off and trying to pluck the love-fog from my brain. Its been abonut a month, its still hard. But I do feel stronger and more determined each day, even though there is low contact. I wouldn't go dancing or somewhere to have a private intimate conversation with him though! I would expect I'll be somewhat vulnerable for 3-6 months and I'm going to protect myself hard. Yeap dancing and intimate private conversations definitely make things harder. I won't ask her to dance again because it does kind of hurt me in the process as well, but she was the one initiating the intimate conversations. The way I see it is if I'm hurting and feeling a lot of loss and sadness over things. And based on how she is being, I'm assuming she is feeling the same as well. Maybe to more of an extent then me because I actually address my feelings head on and don't avoid anything, so even if it's more intense for me in the short term. I can move through it quicker and get to a point of healthy detachment more easily, then someone who dissociates and then gets snacked in the face with their feelings come rushing back and trying harder to reconnect as a result. |
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Post by stu on Oct 21, 2019 22:27:56 GMT
stu, it's possible to eventually still be friends if you care about her, but I don't think enough time has passed yet based on your concerns. As encouragement, I've never had a "returning" FA who rejected my much later bids for friendship if they came back before I was healed enough to handle it and told them I care but needed more time. I had to hold down the boundaries to get the space I needed and couldn't just trust them to mind what I said when they were in a pull state, but I was respectful both during breakups (these cases were all me getting dumped) and when I'd have to create space, so they weren't "mad" that I'd pulled away from that in the first place. They were just happy when eventually I reconnected once I was ready, even if it took months and months and months. So what I'm trying to say is, you don't have to make the decision that you have to be friends right now just because she's being warmer. It's not the be-all end-all if you wait until YOU'RE ready and are authentic to your needs in that way. This is definitely a typical FA cycle move. You can communicate and be respectful to the both of you, be on good terms, but also protect yourself without doing the guesswork figuring out what she's "ready" for. Yeah I don't know if I'll ever really want to be just friends with her. Right now I am just keeping to myself and seeing what happens next. Not expecting any certain outcome. I'd be nice to have a sense of reconcilation in some way or another. Not necessarily romantic reconnection, But I can't control her behavior or actions. Just sucked to get that close and connected with her and then have things end in such a shitty way. I feel better now that she is trying to re engage me and I feel less like I was completely discarded after showing someone my full self, and that she actually does value me. I know the ghosting was her own issues and nothing to do with me, but on an emotional level it still felt pretty lousy. Things as they are now, I don't plan on making any changes unless she put a serious effort to address and acknowledge everything and work on her challenges. Again she is self aware and does take self responsibility for it. And is aware of what's going on and was trying to get help. So this isn't someone who is completely unaware and unconscious. Just still caught up in the emotiknal pull of her own patterns I guess. |
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Post by serenity on Oct 21, 2019 22:29:54 GMT
Stu when you talk, is it like in a public space , or somewhere that triggers romantic memories? Maybe all you have to do is try to change the environment where you talk somehow? Coffee shops are good for me personally.
When my ex tries to reconnect at work, he comes to my office and usually , and the conversations are friendly but not intimate. That feels okay. We used to go out to nearby places to talk about intimate things, so I consider those places off limits right now.. like too triggering.
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Post by stu on Oct 21, 2019 22:42:06 GMT
Stu when you talk, is it like in a public space , or somewhere that triggers romantic memories? Maybe all you have to do is try to change the environment where you talk somehow? Coffee shops are good for me personally. When my ex tries to reconnect at work, he comes to my office and usually , and the conversations are friendly but not intimate. That feels okay. We used to go out to nearby places to talk about intimate things, so I consider those places off limits right now.. like too triggering. Honestly anytime I see her it triggers all kinds of romantic memories and can be pretty painful. But I just sit through the feelings and eventually they go away. I don't feel worried about triggers for myself though. I feel pretty okay, the only thing that would set me off is seeing her kiss some other dude or something of those regards. For as FA as she is, everytime she saw me out after the ghosting she would constantly look at me, try to get near my personal space, and was acting very vsiually anxious. I have much more of a poker face then her and can hide my feelings more easily on my face and body language. If she tries to talk to me we are generally in a public place, but at the same time the vibe is pretty private and intimate between us. But it isn't the kind of place we would ever have a serious conversation either. If she does try to have a serious conversation with me Im not really worried about where it would be but would actually prefer it to be more private and intimate because it feels awkward to go too deep in conversation at a coffeeshop for example . This is assuming she tried to reconnect in a serious way with me right now and initiated a meet up like that. Im not really struggling with the connection making me feel out of sorts or in some kind of conlict anymore over all. I just wanted to post about it to give y'all an update as to what happened . And ask for some advice if she tried to push things further then she is right now. As for myself I feel pretty okay and unfased, like I mentioned the only thing that would deeply hurt me at this point is seeing her move on with other guys. But I don't know why she would try and engage me at this point if that was the case. And I don't think she's tactless enough to do it in front of me, even if that was the case. |
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Post by iz42 on Oct 21, 2019 22:50:31 GMT
If I fully want to move on I probbaly need to cease all contact completely and stop going the places we both frequent together as well. I'd just rather talk things through together then not before doing that. She tried ignoring me for two months but apparently couldn't keep that up for long. I think it's just healthier to communicate together to have things be more amicable in whatever comes out of that, is my thought. What would this conversation look like for you? What would you want to say? |
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Post by mrob on Oct 21, 2019 23:12:50 GMT
FAs don’t exist in a vacuum. This is an opportunity to look at your own stuff as well. If you were fully in the secure camp, she wouldn’t hear the click of the gate as you went. The temptation is to look at others behaviour, but the only behaviour you can correct is your own.
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Post by stu on Oct 21, 2019 23:13:12 GMT
In a recent couple of week events my FA has fully come back to engaging me and trying to get my attention again. I am very confused because she ended up ghosting me for over 7-8 weeks and I never thought I would hear from her again There were various de activations before but nothing that lasted this long, or with zero communication whatsoever. Even though I had reached out a few times without ever hearing a response. I thought she has completely cut me out. Not really sure what to do with this now. I spoke with and hung out with her this last week when we saw each other out for a bit. She was extremely rigid and tense but she seemed to calm down when I talked as if things were the same as usual, and just acted very warm with her. I feel she is really scared of reprucussions of her recent ghosting behavior. But I don't feel a need to tell her anything about it, or my feelings. When I saw her it was obvious her feelings for me were still there, and she was acting out of sorts a lot. But consisntelty trying to get me to talk with her and followed me around, even though I was acting pretty aloof. Most this started again because the week previous I saw her out and decided to stop being awkward about the fact that everytime she ever saw me out, she tried to act like I wasn't there. And I was tired of doing the whole don't talk to them thing. So I asked her to two step dance. After we did she tried to talk to me longer and asked why I had to leave that but I had to take a friend home, so I told her I had to go but it was good to see her. This last week again I just asked her to dance once, and after she immediately tried to talk to me even more so I hung out with her for a large part of the night. She brought up some stuff we usually talked about before and just our usual banter together, and had a good time together . Walked her to her car and hugged her goodnight as well. But this whole experience is tripping me out. I've never had someone ghost me that hard, and then turn around and act like this, and seem as interested as ever in things. I'm just curious what exactly could be going on or what I should do with this. It was obvious that she had deactivated right before the ghosting and I did very little to cause it. We just got the closest we ever we're together and she got more and more anxious but opened it more and more at the same time. Then finally just shut down. But to a more extreme length then she ever did before. For a few weeks after before I talked to her again she would see me out but never say a word to me, yet would stare at me a lot of the time and be visually acting extremely anxious. Yet when I did text her a few times, still she never responded. I feel like she's going to want to talk soon and a serious conversation might come up, so I'm just wondering the best way to go about this? I am not trying to just jump back into things as they were with her. I still really care about her and have strong feelings, but I'm also trying to protect myself from getting hurt again. Im also really shocked that this ended up happening again, because I did not expect her to ever come back again after her last dissappearing act from me. I don't think things could work out unless she was seriously working on herself and self aware. It would just be another situation of getting close again and then the deactivation. I don't want to go through that again, but I do want to talk to her and see where she is at and how she is feeling. She is self aware, and was seeking help for her challenges but she is still in the pattern of acting things out in the way she recently displayed. I don't want to just cut her out. I can't handle being just a friend with her, but I also don't want to get hurt again. I don't plan on bringing up any serious conversation or getting to vulnerable with her again, unless she initiatied all of that. But I have a strong feeling she is going to try, and I want to be prepared for when that could happen. Reading this just gave me flashbacks of last year with my push-pull experience. Had not talked to her for like 7 weeks, we meet at a local social event. She literally dissociated, literally froze in the spot when she seen me for like 10-15 seconds, and then moved over to her friends. She then proceeded to stare at me all day long (my friends told me, I was enjoying the day after moving on), and followed me around all day and came up chatting, introduced me to her brother for the first time, and texted me after she left the event saying "it was great to see me" etc. Could this youtube clip help you? www.youtube.com/watch?v=haR9tmuTQkI&t=1140sI found it informative, also Thais has other good clips on what a F-A wants you to know/expects etc. I found that expressing your true feelings and being legitimate is the best, she seemed to appreciate it, but still couldn't see her in person much last year, but she was positively reactive too it. With my F-A, we just have started contact again, since early August. I'm purely there as a friend only, no attachment. Have expressed I would like to catch up again, and left it at light funny banter to regain trust and build up from there. My goals with her are purely to be a secure base really only. She must be doing the work (which I think she is in some respects), communicate with me and show she is moving forward, otherwise it's seemingly a waste of space, no matter how much a "spice of life" they are! Thanks that's very helpful, but honestly I'm not looking to reconnect at all unless she puts in a serious effort and akcnowsddges a lot of things. |
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Post by stu on Oct 21, 2019 23:50:22 GMT
FAs don’t exist in a vacuum. This is an opportunity to look at your own stuff as well. If you were fully in the secure camp, she wouldn’t hear the click of the gate as you went. The temptation is to look at others behaviour, but the only behaviour you can correct is your own. I have been aware of my own behaviors and worked on myself though. The only thing I can do different then now is either get closer or walk away completely. I don't do anything to trigger her anymore I just act like myself and take things as they are. Of course I want to connect with her and hope things work out idealistically in the back of my head. But I'm not going to blind myself to reality either. I'm not saying this is all on her to change, or that I'm not an active participant because it takes two to hold things together. All I am saying is there are things she is not addressing for herself that make a consistent connection in possible unless she worked on it. I.e. completely ghosting me out of nowhere for two months and then re connecting again after because she felt too close and intimate, and probbaly got freaked out. If we talked about things together that go on for ourselves and worked on things together, and ourselves together and had open and healthy communication it could be good. But as of now I have no idea if that will ever happen and I'm not going to push for anything at all anymore. I know the suffering she is in. And that she wants to connect but has these deep fears and issues that cause her to protect herself and run away. And that no one can change that but her. I know there are reasons I am still around her as well, and that I haven't just cut her off completely myself. Or just made the intention to only be friends with her and other things regarding my own boundaries with her too. I know at this point though I am secure enough that I don't do anything to actively trigger her stuff. And am very secure in my talking and connecting with her too. The part that's hard for me is just cutting the chord completely without ever getting the chance to talk through things together. Hence why I didn't just do that before. Because it feels messed up given how much we had between us and how we connected before and that I care about her a lot. Again I am not pointing the finger at her, or blaming and shaming her for anything at all. I am not making any conclusions or judgements about any of her behaviors and leaving things free of assumption and conclusion unless she talks to me directly. I can't form opinions out of assumptions and make that reality. I have no idea what is going on for her unless I talked to her. |
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Post by stu on Oct 21, 2019 23:56:18 GMT
If I fully want to move on I probbaly need to cease all contact completely and stop going the places we both frequent together as well. I'd just rather talk things through together then not before doing that. She tried ignoring me for two months but apparently couldn't keep that up for long. I think it's just healthier to communicate together to have things be more amicable in whatever comes out of that, is my thought. What would this conversation look like for you? What would you want to say? I would show gratitude and appreciation for the time and connection we had together , and walk away peacefully. I would not feel a need to re state hurt feelings and the like because it would be redudent at this point. If she wanted to push for more with me again, the I would say I needed to address a lot of things that happened between us and needing accountability and explanation for certain behaviors, would express how certain things did affect me. And would only feel comfortable pursuing something more intimate with her if she was also in a place of doing a lot of self work for her challenges, and wanting to strengthen and build a better connection together. |
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Post by serenity on Oct 21, 2019 23:59:57 GMT
I think most reasonable, empathetic people do not simply switch off love like a light switch at the first sign of trouble. When you love someone you care about them, and try to understand them. FA's are sure hard to figure out, especially the first time you get close to one romantically.
My ex is a bit too much like a tiger. If you get close, when he's in the right mood, he might lick your hand. If you get closer, in the wrong mood, he'll maim you. Safest distance seems outside the bars. Pretty tiger, I like him. Just don't like getting maimed.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 22, 2019 0:09:53 GMT
I know at this point though I am secure enough that I don't do anything to actively trigger her stuff. And am very secure in my talking and connecting with her too. The part that's hard for me is just cutting the chord completely without ever getting the chance to talk through things together. Security isn't about getting to a point where you're controlling your own behaviors enough that you're not triggering someone else, though. That's walking on eggshells in hopes of a specific outcome. Security is about acting authentically with healthy boundaries around self and other, and speaking up about your needs so actions and words are aligned (but not being so overbearing about it that it's bulldozing the other person). It's not staying in a situation that is upsetting because it's not what you want while on a certain level you're waiting around to see what the other person wants when they haven't actually asked for anything or expressed themselves. What I see in your thread is, I have no reason to trust her and that makes me feel bad, but I'm still letting her make the decision for what I do. You're only going to walk away if she isn't serious about reconnecting romantically and hasn't worked on herself. You will stay if she reveals she's doing what you want her to ideally do. You're not owning the decision yourself, in spite of what she does. It's still dependent on what she does, which you're trying to anticipate even though you're saying you're fine and it doesn't really matter to you what she does. There's a disconnect and contradiction in your description of your feelings in your posts and your words and your actions. I'm not pointing that out to pick on you (especially if you mostly are just updating and don't want more feedback?), I've just been there with FAs and DAs and I've been AP and I've been secure, and I want to point out what I'm recognizing because when I was in your position, it would have been helpful for me to have seen that. |
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Post by 8675309 on Oct 22, 2019 1:04:27 GMT
FAs don’t exist in a vacuum. This is an opportunity to look at your own stuff as well. If you were fully in the secure camp, she wouldn’t hear the click of the gate as you went. The temptation is to look at others behaviour, but the only behaviour you can correct is your own. It is true most secures would just leave and move on. However in Jeb's "Avoidant: How to love (or leave)", there is an example, the same example is pulled from his Fearful-Avoidant section from his website. Greta is her name. That example mirrors myself. I was that taken aback by the situation, I had to look for answers. I'm a thinker. Totally secure, I do not get anxious near or far from a lover, love my alone time, no self esteem issues, and will tell it how it is with no fear basically, and my emotions are self regulated just fine, I always in a centred fashion try to talk about things in highly charged emotional moments, and will give numerous chances for someone to open up. I will not be mistreated and set firm boundaries. My F-A was kind (yeah sure was pushing some people pleasing) but she still was nice and did nice things, and wasn't 100% toxic, and she was the "spice of life", very fun to hang around, sense of humour struck a chord with mine, very passionate, and that is attractive, that's why I was drawn to her. It's just sadly these attachment issues are there, our chemistry for each other, admitted by both of us, was insane! Deeply saddened when she pulled away, but recognised the lowish self esteem etc. I own that, that I stayed around to see what she would do, and try and understand. That's upto the individual. what is important is, from my perspective is, i'm not codependent, there are boundaries, solid communication, and that this is purely a supportive role, that I accept from a secure place. I like her a lot baseline, it's just one of those things in life, and now I understand the trauma and where she comes from. I feel ya form the secure camp. I was willing to try, he was a good guy and we got along well. Being secure doesnt me you just shut the gate instantly. You just dont keep going like an AP would, you still know your boundaries, how much you can take, emotionally open, ect.
Seems to be a thing, you're a secure so all is wonderland and never hang on longer, get anxious, want to avoid, etc. Nobody is 100% secure. We can just express when we feel these things, understand it and will talk to our partner. We wouldn't stay in a bad relationship for 5 years but doesn't mean we just let go right away.
Stu, say what you need to say, she runs, gets defensive, etc its on her, just do it.
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Post by stu on Oct 22, 2019 1:30:05 GMT
It is true most secures would just leave and move on. However in Jeb's "Avoidant: How to love (or leave)", there is an example, the same example is pulled from his Fearful-Avoidant section from his website. Greta is her name. That example mirrors myself. I was that taken aback by the situation, I had to look for answers. I'm a thinker. Totally secure, I do not get anxious near or far from a lover, love my alone time, no self esteem issues, and will tell it how it is with no fear basically, and my emotions are self regulated just fine, I always in a centred fashion try to talk about things in highly charged emotional moments, and will give numerous chances for someone to open up. I will not be mistreated and set firm boundaries. My F-A was kind (yeah sure was pushing some people pleasing) but she still was nice and did nice things, and wasn't 100% toxic, and she was the "spice of life", very fun to hang around, sense of humour struck a chord with mine, very passionate, and that is attractive, that's why I was drawn to her. It's just sadly these attachment issues are there, our chemistry for each other, admitted by both of us, was insane! Deeply saddened when she pulled away, but recognised the lowish self esteem etc. I own that, that I stayed around to see what she would do, and try and understand. That's upto the individual. what is important is, from my perspective is, i'm not codependent, there are boundaries, solid communication, and that this is purely a supportive role, that I accept from a secure place. I like her a lot baseline, it's just one of those things in life, and now I understand the trauma and where she comes from. I feel ya form the secure camp. I was willing to try, he was a good guy and we got along well. Being secure doesnt me you just shut the gate instantly. You just dont keep going like an AP would, you still know your boundaries, how much you can take, emotionally open, ect.
Seems to be a thing, you're a secure so all is wonderland and never hang on longer, get anxious, want to avoid, etc. Nobody is 100% secure. We can just express when we feel these things, understand it and will talk to our partner. We wouldn't stay in a bad relationship for 5 years but doesn't mean we just let go right away.
Stu, say what you need to say, she runs, gets defensive, etc its on her, just do it.
I totally understand where you all are coming from and appreciate the feedback. But at this point even though she's chasing me, I just don't feel the need to tell her anything because I'm not trying to re enact our connection unless she showed geniune change that I mentioned before. It would seem out of context to just blurt out my feelings from the superficial conversations we've had, or tell her I need to express myself. Because I would only do that if I was trying to re connect with her anyways right ? And unless she did that at this point I am considering myself moved on and am just done with things anyways. I'm not waiting around to see what she does and putting my life or other things on hold. I'm just curious to see what happens with her because I didn't expect what recently happened to happen. I didn't ask her to dance to try and rekindle things with her. It's just that two stepping with someone takes a lot of practice and we have a lot of experience dancing together so its fun to be able to do it with someone I know I can partner up well with. I didn't do anything else beyond that until she started trying to engage me a lot and just went along with it for a bit when I was out. I'm not saying I have no feelings or don't have any attachment to her. I just don't feel a need to do anything at this point to connect with her more, but also don't feel the need to completely cut her out of my brain to protect myself either. Just keeping to myself right now and not letting it bog me down anymore. I feel pretty okay over all, and not affected in the same way by her as I was before. |
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Post by stu on Oct 22, 2019 1:39:58 GMT
I know at this point though I am secure enough that I don't do anything to actively trigger her stuff. And am very secure in my talking and connecting with her too. The part that's hard for me is just cutting the chord completely without ever getting the chance to talk through things together. Security isn't about getting to a point where you're controlling your own behaviors enough that you're not triggering someone else, though. That's walking on eggshells in hopes of a specific outcome. Security is about acting authentically with healthy boundaries around self and other, and speaking up about your needs so actions and words are aligned (but not being so overbearing about it that it's bulldozing the other person). It's not staying in a situation that is upsetting because it's not what you want while on a certain level you're waiting around to see what the other person wants when they haven't actually asked for anything or expressed themselves. What I see in your thread is, I have no reason to trust her and that makes me feel bad, but I'm still letting her make the decision for what I do. You're only going to walk away if she isn't serious about reconnecting romantically and hasn't worked on herself. You will stay if she reveals she's doing what you want her to ideally do. You're not owning the decision yourself, in spite of what she does. It's still dependent on what she does, which you're trying to anticipate even though you're saying you're fine and it doesn't really matter to you what she does. There's a disconnect and contradiction in your description of your feelings in your posts and your words and your actions. I'm not pointing that out to pick on you (especially if you mostly are just updating and don't want more feedback?), I've just been there with FAs and DAs and I've been AP and I've been secure, and I want to point out what I'm recognizing because when I was in your position, it would have been helpful for me to have seen that. I don't want to control my behaviors to not upset her, nor am I trying to walk on eggshells I have no problem expressing anything to her, or being authentic to myself. I just don't feel a need to do any serious talk with her right now, because I'm not looking to re connect with her unless she did what I mentioned before and you are saying. Which is making a serious change and effort on the behaviors and challenges going on for her. Its not about trusting her or not at this point. Because I'm not really connected to her, and don't talk to her at all aside from the few times I did see her. My only relationship to her at this point is occasionally seeing her out when I am doing some things with friends and the few times we danced and talked since all of that. Outside of that there isn't anything going on and I'm not engaging her. I think I understand what you are pointing to and it makes a lot of sense and I really appreciate it, especially as your posts are always extremely insightful and through your own raw experiences of knowledge. However I'm kind of confused how I am waiting around for her in a sense right now. I said I was open to connecting with her if she showed certain things to demonstrate that it would be different then the same cycle happening again. But other then that I am not sitting around for anything to happen, or expecting it to. I have no idea what's going on for her at all, except for the fact that she is trying to reconnect with me herself and engaging me in different ways she can when I happen to be where she is too. I probably opened that can of worms for her as soon as I asked her to dance a couple weeks ago though. Because without that it seems she would have been too intimadated to say anything to me anyways. |
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