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Post by stu on Oct 22, 2019 1:49:04 GMT
I think most reasonable, empathetic people do not simply switch off love like a light switch at the first sign of trouble. When you love someone you care about them, and try to understand them. FA's are sure hard to figure out, especially the first time you get close to one romantically. My ex is a bit too much like a tiger. If you get close, when he's in the right mood, he might lick your hand. If you get closer, in the wrong mood, he'll maim you. Safest distance seems outside the bars. Pretty tiger, I like him. Just don't like getting maimed. I think based on her behaviors and how I know her that she just gets freaked out and runs away, then has a hard time reconnecting due to the consequences of her acoidant behavior. Maybe worried someone will shame her about her actions and stuff too. Seeing her and knowing her as long as I have it's obvious to me she still has feelings, regrets, care, etc. But that fear and anxiety an FA gets and the impulse to escape and protect themselves is a very tough wall for someone to break. I recently read up on that in the support for FA section of the forum as well. where an FA wrote her account of struggling with that even in her friendships. And it shows you more of what things can look like through their perspective too. Your DA/FA ex sounds like an asshole though and goes beyond the typical things I hear of being DA or FA behavior. being DA or FA does not make someone verbally abusive. Which from what I remember you saying before it sounded like your ex was a pretty big dick in that regard. |
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Post by mrob on Oct 22, 2019 2:14:31 GMT
I know that whenever I tried to reconnect, I had my tail between my legs. I knew I had done the wrong thing and for her to even talk to me was a stretch. Deactivation is the result of inner terror. Flight. And 8675309 is right. I was married for seven years to a secure lady, battling this inner stuff, having absolutely no idea what it was, feeling stupid and crazy. She stuck by me through some really rough patches. The one that brought me here was similar. My behaviour dragged her into anxiety. She eventually said, “sometimes love isn’t enough”. She wanted peace and is now in a different relationship that seems calm and authentic. Also, I’ve dated FAs that have triggered my anxious side and yep, we’re true to form. It hurts as an FA, and I’ve acted this way and get it. I’d hate to think what it’s like for somebody else. |
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Post by iz42 on Oct 22, 2019 2:31:56 GMT
I set clear boundaries with my ex about a year ago -- I told him not to contact me. He reappeared about 3 weeks later and talked about how much he wanted me in his life. I still had feelings for him and it felt so incredibly validating that he was showing me that he still cared. It surprised me because he had been so unresponsive, and that made it feel even more important and special. So I guess I relate to what you're saying here. It sounds like you're more aware than I was, but hadn't done enough work on myself and I felt compelled to let him back in. He went on to repeat the cycle and things got much worse.
I'm sure that in your conscious mind you know you can't be with her unless she's done the work, but there might be part of you that feels flattered that she's showing you she cares after she ghosted you. When you still have strong feelings for someone, you want to be close to them. Who knows - maybe you'll decide to try things again with her and see how it goes. But I would warn you about spending too much time focusing on this situation when you could be meeting other more available people.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 22, 2019 2:35:56 GMT
However I'm kind of confused how I am waiting around for her in a sense right now. I said I was open to connecting with her if she showed certain things to demonstrate that it would be different then the same cycle happening again. But other then that I am not sitting around for anything to happen, or expecting it to. Maybe your perspective on what you want has evolved from when you started the thread. I get wanting things to feel amiable with someone you keep seeing in a group setting, and having that truly be all. That usually doesn't come with wondering about, guessing, and projecting about what she was thinking and feeling when she ghosted and what she's thinking and feeling now. It's just being present when you're with her, letting her be whoever she is, and not worrying about it when you're not. It seemed like you were waiting to see if she'd restart the cycle before you decided what you really want from her (spoiler alert: if you allow her to, she probably will, people don't often change in only two months), but it's possible I'm misreading your sentiments. |
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Post by 8675309 on Oct 22, 2019 3:07:24 GMT
I know that whenever I tried to reconnect, I had my tail between my legs. I knew I had done the wrong thing and for her to even talk to me was a stretch. Deactivation is the result of inner terror. Flight. And 8675309 is right. I was married for seven years to a secure lady, battling this inner stuff, having absolutely no idea what it was, feeling stupid and crazy. She stuck by me through some really rough patches. The one that brought me here was similar. My behaviour dragged her into anxiety. She eventually said, “sometimes love isn’t enough”. She wanted peace and is now in a different relationship that seems calm and authentic. Also, I’ve dated FAs that have triggered my anxious side and yep, we’re true to form. It hurts as an FA, and I’ve acted this way and get it. I’d hate to think what it’s like for somebody else.
Shes right, true love is not enough. I did sincerely try to love my FA and told him so. I just hope one day he gets to a place where you are/others here and actually trying.
Mrob all in due time, you'll find some happiness and more stability with a lady.
All of you here. You are here and aware making great strides even if you dont think so at times, some days you take 3 steps back, etc. Its ok. You are trying, and that's great progress. Give yourself more credit even if youre feeling like dung.
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Post by stu on Oct 22, 2019 3:11:29 GMT
However I'm kind of confused how I am waiting around for her in a sense right now. I said I was open to connecting with her if she showed certain things to demonstrate that it would be different then the same cycle happening again. But other then that I am not sitting around for anything to happen, or expecting it to. Maybe your perspective on what you want has evolved from when you started the thread. I get wanting things to feel amiable with someone you keep seeing in a group setting, and having that truly be all. That usually doesn't come with wondering about, guessing, and projecting about what she was thinking and feeling when she ghosted and what she's thinking and feeling now. It's just being present when you're with her, letting her be whoever she is, and not worrying about it when you're not. It seemed like you were waiting to see if she'd restart the cycle before you decided what you really want from her (spoiler alert: if you allow her to, she probably will, people don't often change in only two months), but it's possible I'm misreading your sentiments. Ok I see, well to put things more simply, I still love her and I'm still attached. But I know that it will not work unless there is an intention and effort to work on things with herself. And if I re engage her without that happening it will be the same cycle all over again. I also don't feel a need to express my feelings or other things because if and until she does those things then as it stands now, I don't have much of a relationship to her and I don't talk to her outside of the brief times I see her out. I know if I tried she would probably be very receptive but I haven't because I don't want to get sucked back in to the same cycle. I would only want to re engage with her completely if I knew the cycle could end. And how that would happen is by having real work done on both ends and the intenion from both people to do that and see that through. I don't know what she's thinking or feeling , aside from I was surprised she was chasing after me again after going so cold and ghosting. especially considering that mutual friends and her friends saw she didn't talk to me anymore and were there both times. And saw her trying to talk and hang out with me, so I was surprised she wasn't worried what they were thinking about that either. If I come across contridctory it's because I have contridicting feelings right now. No longer the anger and frustration. But the emotional level of wanting to connect and feel close . And the rational side saying I have to watch out for myself and if I go back in without certain things happening I'll get hurt again. So as for now I just treat it as over unless that possibility happened all through her end, which may never happen. Thus me being done for my own protection unless that happened and I wasn't with someone else. |
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Post by stu on Oct 22, 2019 3:36:54 GMT
I set clear boundaries with my ex about a year ago -- I told him not to contact me. He reappeared about 3 weeks later and talked about how much he wanted me in his life. I still had feelings for him and it felt so incredibly validating that he was showing me that he still cared. It surprised me because he had been so unresponsive, and that made it feel even more important and special. So I guess I relate to what you're saying here. It sounds like you're more aware than I was, but hadn't done enough work on myself and I felt compelled to let him back in. He went on to repeat the cycle and things got much worse. I'm sure that in your conscious mind you know you can't be with her unless she's done the work, but there might be part of you that feels flattered that she's showing you she cares after she ghosted you. When you still have strong feelings for someone, you want to be close to them. Who knows - maybe you'll decide to try things again with her and see how it goes. But I would warn you about spending too much time focusing on this situation when you could be meeting other more available people. That makes a lot of sense and yes you are right that it feels good rather then feeling the burn of the ghosting as the final thing. And yes there is that part of myself that would like to jump back into things and feels releif. However I know that it wouldn't be healthy for me to do that and would end in the same way again, so I stop myself from letting myself get there. If that makes sense. And also trying to not think about it anymore also like you are mentioning . It would be easier to find someone more available. But it also sucks to feel like giving up after so much that happened between us and how things did manage to grow. I'm not one to throw in the towel very easily. Though I know as it stands now it couldn't work unless certain things were done either so I am just keeping to myself and avoiding myself falling into it, which is also harderwith her being like this right now too. But it is what it is. |
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Post by serenity on Oct 22, 2019 4:02:29 GMT
I think based on her behaviors and how I know her that she just gets freaked out and runs away, then has a hard time reconnecting due to the consequences of her acoidant behavior. Maybe worried someone will shame her about her actions and stuff too. Seeing her and knowing her as long as I have it's obvious to me she still has feelings, regrets, care, etc. But that fear and anxiety an FA gets and the impulse to escape and protect themselves is a very tough wall for someone to break. I recently read up on that in the support for FA section of the forum as well. where an FA wrote her account of struggling with that even in her friendships. And it shows you more of what things can look like through their perspective too. Your DA/FA ex sounds like an asshole though and goes beyond the typical things I hear of being DA or FA behavior. being DA or FA does not make someone verbally abusive. Which from what I remember you saying before it sounded like your ex was a pretty big dick in that regard. Stu, I read this list of common distancing strategies used by avoidants during the past week, and my ex's behaviour looks pretty textbook FA to me (in avoidant mode). www.loveaddictionhelp.com/12-distancing-strategies-the-love-avoidant-uses-to-avoid-intimacyI suspect that my ex moved onto more cruel distancing behaviours because i told him I understood his need for space. I don't think he wanted `understanding' during deactivation, that was something I didn't get at the time;`understanding' would imply the bond is still in tact, like he was going on vacation or something. Whereas what he wanted was a complete severance of the emotional connection  , Even though as partner you may see it as temporary, I don't think he saw it that way at the time. |
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Post by stu on Oct 22, 2019 4:07:16 GMT
I know that whenever I tried to reconnect, I had my tail between my legs. I knew I had done the wrong thing and for her to even talk to me was a stretch. Deactivation is the result of inner terror. Flight. And 8675309 is right. I was married for seven years to a secure lady, battling this inner stuff, having absolutely no idea what it was, feeling stupid and crazy. She stuck by me through some really rough patches. The one that brought me here was similar. My behaviour dragged her into anxiety. She eventually said, “sometimes love isn’t enough”. She wanted peace and is now in a different relationship that seems calm and authentic. Also, I’ve dated FAs that have triggered my anxious side and yep, we’re true to form. It hurts as an FA, and I’ve acted this way and get it. I’d hate to think what it’s like for somebody else. Yeah that makes sense and I'm sorry to hear that mrob. It sounds like you went through quite a bit before really figuring out what was actually going on for you. And it's heartbreaking to hear you lost two relationships because of it as well. I know for my FA that she was having inner fear that caused the ghosting, and like you mentioned still a lot of anxieties talking to me again , yet still trying anyways. Like you though my FA is self aware, knows she has an attachment issue and is trying to work on herself but also scared to take certain steps with it at the same time. It's really really sad to see it happen. I mean we had a really solid and strong bond together, we're very compatible and had a lot of good times together and I could tell she really enjoyed being around me. And if these things weren't as big of a struggle for her it could be a really great thing. I hope she can take those risks though and really make an effort to step through it. It would be nice to support and encourage her as well. It's a tough situation all around. And feel for anyone that deals with FA struggles or the partner of one. |
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Post by stu on Oct 22, 2019 4:31:05 GMT
I think based on her behaviors and how I know her that she just gets freaked out and runs away, then has a hard time reconnecting due to the consequences of her acoidant behavior. Maybe worried someone will shame her about her actions and stuff too. Seeing her and knowing her as long as I have it's obvious to me she still has feelings, regrets, care, etc. But that fear and anxiety an FA gets and the impulse to escape and protect themselves is a very tough wall for someone to break. I recently read up on that in the support for FA section of the forum as well. where an FA wrote her account of struggling with that even in her friendships. And it shows you more of what things can look like through their perspective too. Your DA/FA ex sounds like an asshole though and goes beyond the typical things I hear of being DA or FA behavior. being DA or FA does not make someone verbally abusive. Which from what I remember you saying before it sounded like your ex was a pretty big dick in that regard. Stu, I read this list of common distancing strategies used by avoidants during the past week, and my ex's behaviour looks pretty textbook FA to me (in avoidant mode). www.loveaddictionhelp.com/12-distancing-strategies-the-love-avoidant-uses-to-avoid-intimacyI suspect that my ex moved onto more cruel distancing behaviours because i told him I understood his need for space. I don't think he wanted `understanding' during deactivation, that was something I didn't get at the time;`understanding' would imply the bond is still in tact, like he was going on vacation or something. Whereas what he wanted was a complete severance of the emotional connection , Even though as partner you may see it as temporary, I don't think he saw it that way at the time. Wow that's terrible, I'm sorry again to hear about all of that. It sounds like someone with no self control or self awareness at all. Whether or not avoidant behaviors played a part. I believe everyone is responsible for their choices though. And people know that there are reprucussions for any poor choices they make. I've never taken back a cheater as an example and never could. I believe that link displays the worst case type of behaviors that can happen as well as the minor, and the same could be shown for someone who is AP although motivations behind it might be different. That's just all around toxic behavior though and regardless of personal issues it's no excuse and definitely not something anyone should put up with. |
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Post by mrob on Oct 22, 2019 6:38:32 GMT
I set clear boundaries with my ex about a year ago -- I told him not to contact me. He reappeared about 3 weeks later and talked about how much he wanted me in his life. I still had feelings for him and it felt so incredibly validating that he was showing me that he still cared. It surprised me because he had been so unresponsive, and that made it feel even more important and special. So I guess I relate to what you're saying here. It sounds like you're more aware than I was, but hadn't done enough work on myself and I felt compelled to let him back in. He went on to repeat the cycle and things got much worse. I'm sure that in your conscious mind you know you can't be with her unless she's done the work, but there might be part of you that feels flattered that she's showing you she cares after she ghosted you. When you still have strong feelings for someone, you want to be close to them. Who knows - maybe you'll decide to try things again with her and see how it goes. But I would warn you about spending too much time focusing on this situation when you could be meeting other more available people. That makes a lot of sense and yes you are right that it feels good rather then feeling the burn of the ghosting as the final thing. And yes there is that part of myself that would like to jump back into things and feels releif. However I know that it wouldn't be healthy for me to do that and would end in the same way again, so I stop myself from letting myself get there. If that makes sense. And also trying to not think about it anymore also like you are mentioning . It would be easier to find someone more available. But it also sucks to feel like giving up after so much that happened between us and how things did manage to grow. I'm not one to throw in the towel very easily. Though I know as it stands now it couldn't work unless certain things were done either so I am just keeping to myself and avoiding myself falling into it, which is also harderwith her being like this right now too. But it is what it is. The idea of the sunken investment. I’ve invested so much in this I can’t let it go..... This is another Aspect of APness. |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Oct 22, 2019 6:57:53 GMT
I know that whenever I tried to reconnect, I had my tail between my legs. I knew I had done the wrong thing and for her to even talk to me was a stretch. Deactivation is the result of inner terror. Flight. And 8675309 is right. I was married for seven years to a secure lady, battling this inner stuff, having absolutely no idea what it was, feeling stupid and crazy. She stuck by me through some really rough patches. The one that brought me here was similar. My behaviour dragged her into anxiety. She eventually said, “sometimes love isn’t enough”. She wanted peace and is now in a different relationship that seems calm and authentic. Also, I’ve dated FAs that have triggered my anxious side and yep, we’re true to form. It hurts as an FA, and I’ve acted this way and get it. I’d hate to think what it’s like for somebody else.
Shes right, true love is not enough. I did sincerely try to love my FA and told him so. I just hope one day he gets to a place where you are/others here and actually trying.
Mrob all in due time, you'll find some happiness and more stability with a lady.
All of you here. You are here and aware making great strides even if you dont think so at times, some days you take 3 steps back, etc. Its ok. You are trying, and that's great progress. Give yourself more credit even if youre feeling like dung.
Nicely said! |
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Post by stu on Oct 22, 2019 10:24:27 GMT
That makes a lot of sense and yes you are right that it feels good rather then feeling the burn of the ghosting as the final thing. And yes there is that part of myself that would like to jump back into things and feels releif. However I know that it wouldn't be healthy for me to do that and would end in the same way again, so I stop myself from letting myself get there. If that makes sense. And also trying to not think about it anymore also like you are mentioning . It would be easier to find someone more available. But it also sucks to feel like giving up after so much that happened between us and how things did manage to grow. I'm not one to throw in the towel very easily. Though I know as it stands now it couldn't work unless certain things were done either so I am just keeping to myself and avoiding myself falling into it, which is also harderwith her being like this right now too. But it is what it is. The idea of the sunken investment. I’ve invested so much in this I can’t let it go..... This is another Aspect of APness. But I did let it go, I just didn't want to. And would prefer to have had things work out. And don't see them working out unless certain things happen of which I have no control. Sunken cost fallacy is a struggle for anyone in any relationship. But walking away from someone you love is also not like walking away from a brick wall. It's hard and it fucking sucks to the core. I understand this forums focus on attachment issues and the like. But I don't see everything always being so binary there is a huge amount of gray area and people are more then just their attachment placement . I've been through a lot with my FA. We met at and frequented a place many times that ended up becoming ground zero of a mass shooting of which I was present at and survived. We knew each other for a while before that, and saw each other after that and there is an entire community of people that are a part of that place who have deepened a stronger bond together as a result, we lost a lot of our friends last year in that shooting and it's been one of the hardest years of both our lives. Our entire community was affected by it and we grew alot stronger of a bond as a result of it. Along with there was a lot of progress and growing things between us this last year. And it's hard to just give up on someone who wants to connect but is just struggling with their own woundings and insecurities. I don't want to turn my back on her but at the same time ghosting me regardless of the underlying fears. It ceased our connection together and now I cannot just jump back into things and pretend I'm not affected by that at all. Hence why at this point I am considering it being done unless she reaches out with that intention. Yes we talked and danced a bit together, and she's trying to pursue me. But not to the extent of actually addressing important things right now. |
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 22, 2019 10:24:49 GMT
That makes a lot of sense and yes you are right that it feels good rather then feeling the burn of the ghosting as the final thing. And yes there is that part of myself that would like to jump back into things and feels releif. However I know that it wouldn't be healthy for me to do that and would end in the same way again, so I stop myself from letting myself get there. If that makes sense. And also trying to not think about it anymore also like you are mentioning . It would be easier to find someone more available. But it also sucks to feel like giving up after so much that happened between us and how things did manage to grow. I'm not one to throw in the towel very easily. Though I know as it stands now it couldn't work unless certain things were done either so I am just keeping to myself and avoiding myself falling into it, which is also harderwith her being like this right now too. But it is what it is. The idea of the sunken investment. I’ve invested so much in this I can’t let it go..... This is another Aspect of APness. I don’t view it as sunken investment....do you “invest” in a parent who sometimes gives you what you want and sometimes doesn’t? No....it is way more raw and way more deep...and it is a longing that goes back to childhood and a hope that goes back that far as well. A person who activates this longing/hope is someone who in some unconscious way mirrors something from our parents. I find the only way through is to sit with the feelings as if they are a third person....as if they are not even attached to the person who sparked them. Because our feelings and our body have stories to tell us about what we need and did not receive. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 11:49:10 GMT
stu, when I read your initial post in this thread I see. whole story about what you think is going on inside of her, mind and emotion reading, assumptions. I also see you pursuing her based on these assumptions. I see you making all the overtures and her responding, but I don't see it the other way around... her coming back. You've been in a venue where you both hang out and you made the steps to reconnect. I see a lot of projection, and story telling. She's responding to you, sure. But is it really her coming back to you, or the other way around? I can see you're confused, and these situations are confusing. But you're really helping build that confusion for both of you. You're an active participant dancing in more ways than one here. And, it's a lot of drama.
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, Even though as partner you may see it as temporary, I don't think he saw it that way at the time.
