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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 4:08:09 GMT
hi stu, it seems to me that you're not really asking a question, and just need to feel and give voice to your feelings that you yourself are still working through, rather than having a question or statement of any sorts. It's not very clear yet what it is you're saying and what is the point of posting this thread, so perhaps that's something you need to be thinking of? Are you discomfitted by how you don't seem to be reacting too much to your FA coming back? What you've described seems perfectly normal and healthy, so what's the conversation here truly about?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that your post is pointless - I'm just highlighting that perhaps you have something deeper to share with that has not come up concretely in your consciousness yet, and if so, hopefully this post will bring that to the surface. It also seems like you're working through alot of things, along with the confusion from the family dynamics you're describing here. Im sorry to hear about all the trauma you've endured with the family and shooting; that's something that must be very difficult to deal with, and it appears that you're still dealing with it.
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Post by Nefertiti on Oct 23, 2019 7:16:57 GMT
All the above would be true if all FAs act the same, or if all relationships involving FAs evolved in the same way. When Stu first posted, it seemed like the usual story. Man meets woman, they have a relationship. One of them has issues, triggers certain responses in their otherwise normal partner and then flakes. And the cycle repeats itself. And I reacted based on this belief. However, Stu just mentioned something different. Not only were they friends before they got together but they also went through a specific tragic episode. This episode bonded them. Bonded a whole group of people who to this day still get together. So now we have three bonds. A friendship, a tragedy (and as a result a group of friends) and a romantic relationship. In trying to disentangle himself from the romantic relationship, going NC (the standard way of doing things) would break, or at least affect, the other bonds. Life doesn't quite work like that. Breaking one bond is hard enough. Breaking two or even three simultaneously is nigh impossible. And this, I believe, has nothing to do with being an AP. I get why he needs to resolve this in a non-NC way. I get why he is surprised that his FA ignored him twice (I think) and then came back. I even get why his FA came back and before that even acknowledged her bad actions (quite un-FA-ish). She has more reasons to do so than just romantic ones. So it is complicated. Maybe I am projecting. As a Secure/FA hybrid, that is. I have more bonds with my FA than just the romantic relationship. So NC is not an option. The more I read Stu's posts, the more I think that he should be open to engaging her in a limited way. This is exactly what he is proposing. As for his feelings for her, they still exist. He shouldn't deny that. But he can control them knowing that going down the road of a relationship will only hurt him more. I didn't mention anything about NC one way or the other or how he should or shouldn't engage. I'm questioning the narrative of "she came back" based on his initiation of contact and assumptions he has made about her feeling states , only based on what he shared. He seems to be the one in pursuit from my view, is all. And, it is something I've seen here before, with one partner reaching out to an avoidant in spite of instances of ghosting or silent treatments. Just an observable pattern here is all. No, you didn't mention NC which is why I said that it is the standard solution offered rather than that you suggested it. Here is the question. Did Stu pursue his FA when he asked her to dance even though she had ignored him on two separate occasions before? Can him asking her be seen as "pursuit"? He responded to this in an earlier post when he said that two-step dancing is a one with specific steps that you do with someone who knows how to do it. So, due to his FA's familiarity with the dance and the fact that they had been dance partners before, he asked her. I don't find that odd in any way. Not for people who had been friends before, and are still socialising in the same circles. Let me give you an example. My FA bf and I are part of a social circle that meets regularly to socialise as well as plan activities. One time I went for just such a gathering and found that the only seat available was right next to him. He had just ghosted me for a week at that time and I was furious at him. Nonetheless, I had to politely greet him and then went on to participate in a debate with him and everybody else. I couldn't possibly ignore him or choose somewhere else to sit. Social etiquette demanded that our issues not be aired in public. We were having a discussion about the activities we were to undertake in which my FA bf had his role and I had mine, both interdependent. This is what I mean when I say that life for the partner of an FA doesn't work like that when other bonds exist. Sometimes you can't just walk away completely. Continuing to politely say hello (initiate or respond to contact in a normal civilised manner) and working with the avoidant (in Stu's case, dancing) is the right thing to do for group cohesion. The alternative was that Stu refuse to acknowledge her, not ask for a dance and the entire group senses that there is a problem. Something that already happened twice before when she wouldn't talk to him at meets and which we can all agree was plain bad manners. Needing to protect your privacy, keeping your issues out of the public eye, wanting not to cause unnecessary friction, maintaining civility is not an AP trait, in my view. It is not a form of pursuit. It is human nature. |
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Post by stu on Oct 23, 2019 8:56:19 GMT
I didn't mention anything about NC one way or the other or how he should or shouldn't engage. I'm questioning the narrative of "she came back" based on his initiation of contact and assumptions he has made about her feeling states , only based on what he shared. He seems to be the one in pursuit from my view, is all. And, it is something I've seen here before, with one partner reaching out to an avoidant in spite of instances of ghosting or silent treatments. Just an observable pattern here is all. No, you didn't mention NC which is why I said that it is the standard solution offered rather than that you suggested it. Here is the question. Did Stu pursue his FA when he asked her to dance even though she had ignored him on two separate occasions before? Can him asking her be seen as "pursuit"? He responded to this in an earlier post when he said that two-step dancing is a one with specific steps that you do with someone who knows how to do it. So, due to his FA's familiarity with the dance and the fact that they had been dance partners before, he asked her. I don't find that odd in any way. Not for people who had been friends before, and are still socialising in the same circles. Let me give you an example. My FA bf and I are part of a social circle that meets regularly to socialise as well as plan activities. One time I went for just such a gathering and found that the only seat available was right next to him. He had just ghosted me for a week at that time and I was furious at him. Nonetheless, I had to politely greet him and then went on to participate in a debate with him and everybody else. I couldn't possibly ignore him or choose somewhere else to sit. Social etiquette demanded that our issues not be aired in public. We were having a discussion about the activities we were to undertake in which my FA bf had his role and I had mine, both interdependent. This is what I mean when I say that life for the partner of an FA doesn't work like that when other bonds exist. Sometimes you can't just walk away completely. Continuing to politely say hello (initiate or respond to contact in a normal civilised manner) and working with the avoidant (in Stu's case, dancing) is the right thing to do for group cohesion. The alternative was that Stu refuse to acknowledge her, not ask for a dance and the entire group senses that there is a problem. Something that already happened twice before when she wouldn't talk to him at meets and which we can all agree was plain bad manners. Needing to protect your privacy, keeping your issues out of the public eye, wanting not to cause unnecessary friction, maintaining civility is not an AP trait, in my view. It is not a form of pursuit. It is human nature. Very good points but me asking her to dance and such I did not think even needed to be analyzed that much anyways. Because it's not as if I told her I miss her, or want to see her, or some other form of actively pursuing things to rekindle a romantic connection. Just being friendly and yes, also enjoying the way we are able to dance together. Because it's rare to dance that well with most other girls who I don't have the experience with, or don't follow my lead as well. I still made it a point to not reach out to her aside from these public situations where I just keep a friendly and warm presence without acting romantic. If just seems to be micro analysis to try and read into every single gesture and behavior that goes on. Or taking deep meaning out of what is in my opinion very minor things. |
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Post by stu on Oct 23, 2019 9:07:29 GMT
hi stu, it seems to me that you're not really asking a question, and just need to feel and give voice to your feelings that you yourself are still working through, rather than having a question or statement of any sorts. It's not very clear yet what it is you're saying and what is the point of posting this thread, so perhaps that's something you need to be thinking of? Are you discomfitted by how you don't seem to be reacting too much to your FA coming back? What you've described seems perfectly normal and healthy, so what's the conversation here truly about? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that your post is pointless - I'm just highlighting that perhaps you have something deeper to share with that has not come up concretely in your consciousness yet, and if so, hopefully this post will bring that to the surface. It also seems like you're working through alot of things, along with the confusion from the family dynamics you're describing here. Im sorry to hear about all the trauma you've endured with the family and shooting; that's something that must be very difficult to deal with, and it appears that you're still dealing with it. Honestly I'm not even sure what's going on for me in that regard. I'm just very lost with a lot of things right now. And trying to make sense of a lot of things in my life. There's a sense of de stablization and disillusionment about many different things going on for me. I had somewhat of a question but wasn't even sure what it was concisely and ended up rambling a bunch of other things as well. Maybe part of me wanted to see how there could be any way of turning things around with my FA now and what could be done to have a solid connection together. But I know by rationality that it wouldn't be possible or sustainable unless she was addressing the things that cause her to de activate and the like. Until then the same things would just happen in a cycle, and me going back into that cycle with the self awareness and knowledge I know now. I know why it wouldn't work unless certain things were addressed. But if she isn't ready or willing to address those things then it would just be a repeat of things which occured before. I'm not going to try and deny or supress those feelings or thoughts. But beyond all of that there is obviously a lot else going on for me as well, of which are much more of an emergency even and requires more of my attention and focus anyways. And oftenly I will answer my own questions by just asking them in the first place. Or the need for an answer will just disspear completely because the question becomes irrelevant. I also tend to write my thoughts and feelings down a lot and it just comes out as a jubled mess of many different objets that occur in the presence of my own awareness. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 9:47:57 GMT
hi stu, it seems to me that you're not really asking a question, and just need to feel and give voice to your feelings that you yourself are still working through, rather than having a question or statement of any sorts. It's not very clear yet what it is you're saying and what is the point of posting this thread, so perhaps that's something you need to be thinking of? Are you discomfitted by how you don't seem to be reacting too much to your FA coming back? What you've described seems perfectly normal and healthy, so what's the conversation here truly about? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that your post is pointless - I'm just highlighting that perhaps you have something deeper to share with that has not come up concretely in your consciousness yet, and if so, hopefully this post will bring that to the surface. It also seems like you're working through alot of things, along with the confusion from the family dynamics you're describing here. Im sorry to hear about all the trauma you've endured with the family and shooting; that's something that must be very difficult to deal with, and it appears that you're still dealing with it. Honestly I'm not even sure what's going on for me in that regard. I'm just very lost with a lot of things right now. And trying to make sense of a lot of things in my life. There's a sense of de stablization and disillusionment about many different things going on for me. I had somewhat of a question but wasn't even sure what it was concisely and ended up rambling a bunch of other things as well. Maybe part of me wanted to see how there could be any way of turning things around with my FA now and what could be done to have a solid connection together. But I know by rationality that it wouldn't be possible or sustainable unless she was addressing the things that cause her to de activate and the like. Until then the same things would just happen in a cycle, and me going back into that cycle with the self awareness and knowledge I know now. I know why it wouldn't work unless certain things were addressed. But if she isn't ready or willing to address those things then it would just be a repeat of things which occured before. I'm not going to try and deny or supress those feelings or thoughts. But beyond all of that there is obviously a lot else going on for me as well, of which are much more of an emergency even and requires more of my attention and focus anyways. And oftenly I will answer my own questions by just asking them in the first place. Or the need for an answer will just disspear completely because the question becomes irrelevant. I also tend to write my thoughts and feelings down a lot and it just comes out as a jubled mess of many different objets that occur in the presence of my own awareness. yes it does seem that way, but that's not a problem at all. It's your process (and I'm also like this sometimes). alot is going on, and I think this thing with your FA is just sort of "tying" things together and is the least serious problem you have, so it's percolating as thoughts/questions that don't quite come out as anything but musings, particularly for yourself to find new footing and a way forward. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 12:16:02 GMT
No, you didn't mention NC which is why I said that it is the standard solution offered rather than that you suggested it. Here is the question. Did Stu pursue his FA when he asked her to dance even though she had ignored him on two separate occasions before? Can him asking her be seen as "pursuit"? He responded to this in an earlier post when he said that two-step dancing is a one with specific steps that you do with someone who knows how to do it. So, due to his FA's familiarity with the dance and the fact that they had been dance partners before, he asked her. I don't find that odd in any way. Not for people who had been friends before, and are still socialising in the same circles. Let me give you an example. My FA bf and I are part of a social circle that meets regularly to socialise as well as plan activities. One time I went for just such a gathering and found that the only seat available was right next to him. He had just ghosted me for a week at that time and I was furious at him. Nonetheless, I had to politely greet him and then went on to participate in a debate with him and everybody else. I couldn't possibly ignore him or choose somewhere else to sit. Social etiquette demanded that our issues not be aired in public. We were having a discussion about the activities we were to undertake in which my FA bf had his role and I had mine, both interdependent. This is what I mean when I say that life for the partner of an FA doesn't work like that when other bonds exist. Sometimes you can't just walk away completely. Continuing to politely say hello (initiate or respond to contact in a normal civilised manner) and working with the avoidant (in Stu's case, dancing) is the right thing to do for group cohesion. The alternative was that Stu refuse to acknowledge her, not ask for a dance and the entire group senses that there is a problem. Something that already happened twice before when she wouldn't talk to him at meets and which we can all agree was plain bad manners. Needing to protect your privacy, keeping your issues out of the public eye, wanting not to cause unnecessary friction, maintaining civility is not an AP trait, in my view. It is not a form of pursuit. It is human nature. Very good points but me asking her to dance and such I did not think even needed to be analyzed that much anyways. Because it's not as if I told her I miss her, or want to see her, or some other form of actively pursuing things to rekindle a romantic connection. Just being friendly and yes, also enjoying the way we are able to dance together. Because it's rare to dance that well with most other girls who I don't have the experience with, or don't follow my lead as well. I still made it a point to not reach out to her aside from these public situations where I just keep a friendly and warm presence without acting romantic. If just seems to be micro analysis to try and read into every single gesture and behavior that goes on. Or taking deep meaning out of what is in my opinion very minor things. It was my take that you were microanalyzing her behavior stu, and anticipating a big talk from her, is all. My statements were made based on information you posted in your first post. Both you and Nefertiti have been cold ghosted here by individuals that you continue to engage with, and have had questions about it. You specifically wondered what could be going on, in your initial posts. I just have an opinion, that what is going on is a dance between two people who are confused, and not entirely emotionally healthy. Nefertiti, your last post is in stark contrast to your first on this thread, and sounds like a flaming rationalization for continuing to engage as the partner of an FA, when the interaction is destructive to you. You are wrestling with me about stu's predicament, but it seems that you're really still very much in pain about your own and I'm not insensitive to that but it doesn't change my perspective here. I have seen a pattern with exes of avoidants here, and I described it as I see it. You needn't agree but it's also not my desire to beat it to death here. I am not in the middle of such a scenario, and it's not pressing for me to hash it all out- I just offered a view that may or may not be helpful or appreciated. It's just a view from a different perspective. I personally find the pattern of FA push-pull to be intolerable and not one Ive been willing to see through past initial signs of instability. So I cannot relate to needing to continue to engaging with someone who has ghosted, given obvious silent treatments, etc. I find that behavior to be in total disregard to me as a person, no matter the cause or internal conflict behind it, it's just not conducive to a mutually respectful and considerate relationship. It hurts because it's hurtful. I think anyone of any attachment style feels rightfully offended by ghosting. Some choose to continue to engage , with stated feelings and hopes for an improvement in circumstances, and some don't, seeing that ghosting itself is a dealbreaker for them. I'm in the latter camp. However anyone chooses to proceed with that stuff is totally their prerogative. If it seems like a good idea to engage beyond superficial courtesy, then surely one is free to do that. The outcome can only be determined later, as it happens. So far I have not seen that go well for the one who has been ghosted, IRL or this forum. In reality, it's not an issue I have experience with, as I consider it to be a dealbreaker, so all I can offer is a sideline view. Which is all I did. Best of luck to all. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 12:40:04 GMT
And yes, Nefertiti, I do see stu's actions as pursuit, rather than casual light engagement, simply because of his stated strong feelings, accompanied by hopes for something beyond a dance. He has expressed a desire for discussion about what happened , which is absolutely understandable, and drifted into jealousy, and an expressed hopefulness or considerarion that she may be working on her issues and interested in improving her relationships. The whole thing is emotionally loaded and there seem to be hopes for reconnection beyond a dance partner- that's how I read it. There is a disconnect between expressed detachment, and expressed attachment and hope. Again, just my take. But this thread is full of understandable conflicts, compounded I'm sure by trauma. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 13:47:59 GMT
stu you expressed that you can't handle being just friends, and you wouldn't date unless a,b,c. The question is, what's your motivation in all this dancing and engaging? It's important to be clear with your own boundaries and behaviors. I would think since you know you can't just be friends, you might be looking for understanding as to whether a,b,c will happen so you can date, and this is a loaded situation. In this case, can the dancing and hanging out truly be seen as without some hope for a,b,c? It's not that that would be bad or unusual- but you might be more vulnerable than you know, and here is where it's important to be very clear with her and yourself. You need not wait for her next move. I'm aligned with a previously posted opinion here that you be clear on your boundaries and engaging by and lay it out straight. As it is, it's all ambiguous with neither of you being assertive with the truth.
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Post by Nefertiti on Oct 23, 2019 20:28:02 GMT
Very good points but me asking her to dance and such I did not think even needed to be analyzed that much anyways. Because it's not as if I told her I miss her, or want to see her, or some other form of actively pursuing things to rekindle a romantic connection. Just being friendly and yes, also enjoying the way we are able to dance together. Because it's rare to dance that well with most other girls who I don't have the experience with, or don't follow my lead as well. I still made it a point to not reach out to her aside from these public situations where I just keep a friendly and warm presence without acting romantic. If just seems to be micro analysis to try and read into every single gesture and behavior that goes on. Or taking deep meaning out of what is in my opinion very minor things. It was my take that you were microanalyzing her behavior stu , and anticipating a big talk from her, is all. My statements were made based on information you posted in your first post. Both you and Nefertiti have been cold ghosted here by individuals that you continue to engage with, and have had questions about it. You specifically wondered what could be going on, in your initial posts. I just have an opinion, that what is going on is a dance between two people who are confused, and not entirely emotionally healthy. Nefertiti , your last post is in stark contrast to your first on this thread, and sounds like a flaming rationalization for continuing to engage as the partner of an FA, when the interaction is destructive to you. You are wrestling with me about stu 's predicament, but it seems that you're really still very much in pain about your own and I'm not insensitive to that but it doesn't change my perspective here. I have seen a pattern with exes of avoidants here, and I described it as I see it. You needn't agree but it's also not my desire to beat it to death here. I am not in the middle of such a scenario, and it's not pressing for me to hash it all out- I just offered a view that may or may not be helpful or appreciated. It's just a view from a different perspective. I personally find the pattern of FA push-pull to be intolerable and not one Ive been willing to see through past initial signs of instability. So I cannot relate to needing to continue to engaging with someone who has ghosted, given obvious silent treatments, etc. I find that behavior to be in total disregard to me as a person, no matter the cause or internal conflict behind it, it's just not conducive to a mutually respectful and considerate relationship. It hurts because it's hurtful. I think anyone of any attachment style feels rightfully offended by ghosting. Some choose to continue to engage , with stated feelings and hopes for an improvement in circumstances, and some don't, seeing that ghosting itself is a dealbreaker for them. I'm in the latter camp. However anyone chooses to proceed with that stuff is totally their prerogative. If it seems like a good idea to engage beyond superficial courtesy, then surely one is free to do that. The outcome can only be determined later, as it happens. So far I have not seen that go well for the one who has been ghosted, IRL or this forum. In reality, it's not an issue I have experience with, as I consider it to be a dealbreaker, so all I can offer is a sideline view. Which is all I did. Best of luck to all. Yes, I changed my mind and explained why. My first opinion was for Stu to stay as far away as possible from his FA. Yes, I was hurt when I first responded to Stu. Actually, I vacillate in terms of emotions. Pain, anger and indifference. Today I am in an "I don't give a sh*t mode". Like you, I am not for an endless engagement with "ghosters" whether they did it because of an attachment problem or some other reason. Not at all. A superficial engagement? Yes, if you are unable to cut the person off completely. So we agree on that point. FAs know to a certain extent how badly they hurt their partners and should learn how to communicate their need for space. Heck, they need to learn how to stop being so selfish and self-centered and learn to love others. |
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Post by stu on Oct 23, 2019 20:34:59 GMT
stu you expressed that you can't handle being just friends, and you wouldn't date unless a,b,c. The question is, what's your motivation in all this dancing and engaging? It's important to be clear with your own boundaries and behaviors. I would think since you know you can't just be friends, you might be looking for understanding as to whether a,b,c will happen so you can date, and this is a loaded situation. In this case, can the dancing and hanging out truly be seen as without some hope for a,b,c? It's not that that would be bad or unusual- but you might be more vulnerable than you know, and here is where it's important to be very clear with her and yourself. You need not wait for her next move. I'm aligned with a previously posted opinion here that you be clear on your boundaries and engaging by and lay it out straight. As it is, it's all ambiguous with neither of you being assertive with the truth. In the back of my mind I wanted to possibly reconnect and see if things could work, there is lingering attachment and feelings. However there is ALSO detachment and watching out for my own needs. I fall under the camp of person that the internal conflict causing the ghosting is understandable, and that isn't a deal breaker in my case. However other things would be. Such as when I told her right after the ghosting that it's fine if she needs space and such. But I would not be interested in ever pursuing things if she started seeing other people at this point or was interested in that. Dancing a couple times with her was just an experience of being in the environment and wanting to have a good time with the music going on. It doesn't mean anything more then that for me. Do I have hopes for a reconcilation or serious conversation, even if it means expressing things to each other before being done completely? Sure. But dancing wasnt my way of trying to open that door. Where as before when I did pursue her it meant reaching out to her and engaging her way beyond anything I am doing right now. Which is that I do not even talk to her or have any part of her life at all outside of that brief time we do happen to bump into each other and if I do ask her to dance or she had light conversation with me. I don't see myself trying to micro analyze her behavior I was just trying to make sense of what was going on because her behavior has always been very confusing and inconsistent. But it's been taken to another extreme as of late. Mainly I wanted to tye things together in my own mind to make sense of stuff so I can lay it to rest. You say I should lay it all on the table and state my boundaries and everything. But that is not something that would make any sense to do socially, when we aren't even talking and aren't involved in each other's lives at all. She probably would not even follow through agreeing to meet up if I said that to her and that I wanted to have a serious conversation. It would be weird to me to do that, especially to someone who ghosted me for that long. Why would I waste my breath in that situation if clearly for the longest time she had no intention to talk to me anyways, despite my reaching out on mutliple occasions? My mindset is more that she chose to cease communication in her own acoidant way, and since that's the case I will not do anything to try and re engage her seriously after. If she came to me and wanted that it would be fine and I would be open to it. But for me to initiate that would not make any sense to me and at worse it would make me feel like a stalker who couldn't let shit go. If we aren't having any kind of relationship right now and aren't involved in each other's lives. Then the fact that she ghosted me and everything else doesn't really matter. She chose to walk away and so if that's what she wanted that's what she got. I'm not going to try and reel her back in and then say "hey here is all the reasons I am upset with you and these are my boundaries." Do you see how that would only make sense if she tried to initiate things and THEN I could respond in such a way. She's not stupid she knows I still have feelings for her,that I don't want to cut her out of my life, knows what happened between us, and knows what she's doing. She's just being avoidant. And if she wants to risk throwing everything away we had between us that is her problem to deal with. I'm not going to chase after her and tell her why I'm worth it. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 20:40:04 GMT
I'm not posting in an emotionally charged state Nefertiti, nor one that is influenced by personal experience with negotiating a relationship with an individual who ghosted me. I don't have an attachment after ghosting and therefore am not really familiar with the angst of it. It truly repels me and I avoid further interaction. I haven't had ongoing connections that I've had to maintain. That said, maintaining an ongoing connection is up to the ghosted. I don't buy the whole bit about needing to consider the curiosity of others, or justifying anything beyond casual courtesy. But that's just me. I see that as vacillation with some emotional confusion and lack of resolution. That's not a crime, I'm just saying here, that based on what I have observed in real life and especially on this board... it's a slippery slope and the one that hits the very bottom with it is the person who was ghosted and still wants to do things like dance, hang out, whatever. A polite greeting and well boundaried, brief interaction is different from dancing a two step, hanging out hugging. To each their own. And, since I am not emotionally charged over this, I don't want to continue to debate. It's difficult for me to keep up with the vacillations of those who are going through their ups and downs , and want to debate a topic. I find it not helpful to me or anyone else. I do hope that you find your best resolution with the situation you are in, and I hope the same for stu. Painful and confusing stuff. |
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Post by serenity on Oct 23, 2019 21:50:28 GMT
Inmourning, I feel what you are suggesting is valuable and insightful. In my own experiences, when I've been deeply in love with someone who has started to show that they no longer care about me, there is a period of `fogginess' afterwards where I am still vulnerable and open to that person. I can rationise all kinds of dumb stuff to re-engage. And nothing but time and space can shift it for me.
When the Fog has lifted, I know it because my self preservation kicks in again, and I feel what I believe are my true feelings that match the situation ... they include quite a bit of disgust for that person's duplicit behaviour, a little bit of revulsion as well. And I am very guarded. I wouldn't be sitting next to them in a group, or asking them to dance or making myself available for deep conversations. I think that this is what you are seeing as well.. these are the behaviours of someone still vulnerable and entranced, and it usually leads to re-engagement, more disrespect, more pain.
I still have to see my ex at work, and although I'm coming out of the Fog at a steady pace now, its still there. I'm trying to choose behaviours based on him being someone who doesn't care about me or respect me.
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Post by stu on Oct 23, 2019 22:29:11 GMT
Inmourning, I feel what you are suggesting is valuable and insightful. In my own experiences, when I've been deeply in love with someone who has started to show that they no longer care about me, there is a period of `fogginess' afterwards where I am still vulnerable and open to that person. I can rationise all kinds of dumb stuff to re-engage. And nothing but time and space can shift it for me. When the Fog has lifted, I know it because my self preservation kicks in again, and I feel what I believe are my true feelings that match the situation ... they include quite a bit of disgust for that person's duplicit behaviour, a little bit of revulsion as well. And I am very guarded. I wouldn't be sitting next to them in a group, or asking them to dance or making myself available for deep conversations. I think that this is what you are seeing as well.. these are the behaviours of someone still vulnerable and entranced, and it usually leads to re-engagement, more disrespect, more pain. I still have to see my ex at work, and although I'm coming out of the Fog at a steady pace now, its still there. I'm trying to choose behaviours based on him being someone who doesn't care about me or respect me. I totally understand where you are coming from and respect your opinions and thoughts a lot. But I also feel each situation has it's own uniqueness as not everyone is describable in the same exact ways. In that sense I know my FA ghosted me for a while. But I don't know the internal thoughts and feelings behind that. If she had some kind of fear or terror response that made it very difficult for her to talk to me, and was really struggling with her own issues, not trying to just blatantly ignore me. Then I would feel it would be not completely necessary to just cut them out and focus completely on my own self preservation. Especially as I'm not thrown much off my emotional equilibrium from them any longer. I feel that some people who are wanting to better themselves but are struggling sometimes just need a bit of extra support . And if someone is self aware and trying to the best of their ability. More doors being shut in their face is just another reason for them to feel bad about themselves and more feelings that people don't truly care about them. I don't know what's going on with my FA so I suspend all assummptions, conclusions, and judgements. I have distanced myself to a healthy place so that I don't hurt myself again. But I also an open to talking to her if she initiated something because then I could know what's on her mind and see if connecting again would be a good thing or not. I know what the fog feels like as I dated a bpd before and after that relationship I was in a really weird head space for many, many months and know exactly what that feeling is like. With this FA though it wasn't really like that. She never did anything harmful to me, she just kept doing things to herself and I happened to be there as someone who was attached to her watching it all happen. If this is a girl that reaches out saying she wants to work on her challenges , and connect with me, and is just having a hard time but wants to grow as a person. I dont feel like turning her away. But I'm also not banking on anything like that happening and so at this point in time I am just focusing on myself and treating things as done. Unless she were to reach out with those intentions. And then maybe that possibility could happen. That's all I can really say about my situation at this point and hope there is no more confusion about it. I do feel really good right now and happy with myself. And nothing is really bogging me down with the FA relatesb stuff anymore. I just think it would be nice if she did reach out and we did ever get the chance to seriously talk. |
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Post by serenity on Oct 24, 2019 2:12:36 GMT
Stu, I really hope that this is a unique situation and that the girl cares for you in spite of ghosting you for months. I hope she'll recognize and love you for you patience and care.
Mainly what I hope for though, is not to see you hurt again. You have enough people in your life who have hurt and disregarded you. It would be nice see you have a bit of real hope in your life and real care for a change.
I feel confident that whatever happens, you'll find it though. <3
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Post by stu on Oct 24, 2019 8:37:48 GMT
Stu, I really hope that this is a unique situation and that the girl cares for you in spite of ghosting you for months. I hope she'll recognize and love you for you patience and care. Mainly what I hope for though, is not to see you hurt again. You have enough people in your life who have hurt and disregarded you. It would be nice see you have a bit of real hope in your life and real care for a change. I feel confident that whatever happens, you'll find it though. <3 I found out tonight that she started seeing a guy she saw before me again, so this is completely over for me now anyways. It hurts a shit ton to know with finality that it's this way. And I didn't expect her to deactivate that hard and then just move on and replace me. But it is what it is and this would have happened at some point no matter what I did. I feel at peace knowing I can let go of any hope and a sense of tension release. But also a lot of sorrow and anger and feel completely disregarded and like I don't matter at all to her. Is what it is though. Now I can just focus on healing. But it's really blowing my mind that she just treated me like that and now moved on without any thought at all. I feel like a fool for all the investment and attachment I had. |
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