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Post by dhali on Oct 28, 2019 20:18:56 GMT
My main point was that most here who describe themselves as secure - I would disagree with strongly. Getting better starts with being honest with yourself.
I would also claim that anyone knowingly going back with an FA without the FA proclaiming what's different this time, is not secure. At least with that person, if you are one to think it applies on an individual by individual basis (I'm not a believer in this, though I do agree certain individuals can exacerbate/trigger someone more often). A secure person would have faith in their future with a more appropriate, yet to be identified, person.
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Post by stu on Oct 28, 2019 21:01:49 GMT
"But if she ever reached out many months or years down the line and wanted to talk to me. I think it would be nice to resolve that sense of conflict over the connection I shared with her." This is sort of a fantasy. The likelihood of this happening is close to zero. The first chapter of how to win friends and influence people - do you remember the lesson? It had examples of murderers in jail not owning what they did. People don't take the blame for stuff, and will resent you if you put it on them. Even if it's theirs to take. If you want to be on good terms, you can't bring it up. That's just human nature. She's de activated similarly before, did some hurtful things then regretted her behaviors and felt remorseful about it and reached out to connect and apologize before. That being said this is a bit beyond what happened before though and i don't really want to talk to her anymore. I think I mentioned it would feel better to have a conversation down the line because it feels so jacked up how she did all of this right now. I thought it would be better to not feel like after everything that I just ended up hating her. For now that makes moving on so much easier though. And I wish I didn't sit around for a couple months after her de activation, trying to re connect and mend things and thinking she would just talk to me again when the de activation was done and things would possibly get better. And didn't think of the possibility she was just ghosting me and moving on to other guys without ever saying a word to me about anything. I mean that seems kind of crazy to me, that someone can just do that and not think or respect the person they had a long history with and strong connection to let them know anything at all, I understand de activations but you can't at least break up first? Or say you are done, not feeling things anymore, etc. Especially when they have reached out a handful of times with no response at all. Or the fact you have the same social circle and mutual friend groups and see each other when you're out a lot. That just makes things extremely awkward. She apparently told some other people that she was done and all the "issues" she apparently had with me. But I never heard a word of any of that myself till now. And none through her, or anything the would expect to get back to me. I'm still shocked and in disbelief even today that she ended up cutting me out like that and just cycling to this other guy and blowing any chance of us ever having anything in the future. Really didn't think she would do that with how I knew her, de activation or not it doesn't really seem like her normal personality. In terms of attachment issues and the like I think sometimes more goes on then just being secure, AP, da, fa, etc.. for myself as an example I think I suffer from some form of c ptsd or trauma bond due to abusive family dynamics some life experiences , previous traumatic expediences, etc. Also a form of being co dependent. Not in the sense of people pleasing or being passive and no assertive, but having weak boundaries, rescuer mindset, seeing potential vs reality , wishful thinking, etc. I used to be secure anxious, and been more avoidant as well in a relationship with a very AP ex girlfriend. But in my more recent years I felt over all much more secure. But then again maybe not because some times I have these major AP moments where things just come spilling out. Its far and few in-between when it happens . But sometimes I feel a crazy amount of distress and will act extremely anxious and say or do things in the moment I later slap myself in the head for. Or alternatively I can shut down and just become numb or disconnected. Right now in just dealing with a ton of disillusionment , confusion, shock , and grief. Things just feel like there's a thick cloud in my mind and that I can't see things very clearly because there's just too much overload. So I'm taking time to just feel better and hopefully things sort themselves out over time . |
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Post by dhali on Oct 28, 2019 23:21:37 GMT
I think your grief is understandable. It also sounds like you get that any future with this person would not be a good use of your time. At least based on how she interacts with love interests, in your experience. I hope that sticks. And I hope you find someone more appropriate for you. I know you went into this second go-around with some knowledge, and optimism.
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Post by iz42 on Oct 28, 2019 23:33:43 GMT
I understand the desire for a "closure" conversation. It's not clear that it will ever happen for me and my ex, but I don't think it's a total fantasy to think that with a lot of distance, we might be able to discuss what happened. I'm not betting on him taking responsibility, but it doesn't seem impossible either. I don't know whether stu's ex will ever be up for such a conversation, but it doesn't sound like he plans to sit around and wait for it to happen. I think it's especially understandable that he would want to talk with her someday because of the trauma of the shooting as well. After such a trauma, I would imagine it would be extra painful to have to cut someone out of your life forever. It's a lot to process.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 23:41:24 GMT
My main point was that most here who describe themselves as secure - I would disagree with strongly. Getting better starts with being honest with yourself. I would also claim that anyone knowingly going back with an FA without the FA proclaiming what's different this time, is not secure. At least with that person, if you are one to think it applies on an individual by individual basis (I'm not a believer in this, though I do agree certain individuals can exacerbate/trigger someone more often). A secure person would have faith in their future with a more appropriate, yet to be identified, person. Completely agree with this. It's easy to test secure (I do, giving honest answers!) - Insecure attachment shows up when it's time to make decisions, in compulsions toward habitual behaviors under stress, in reactions to perceived threats, and in the nervous system. There is a pretty good thread on here somewhere about why attachment tests are not reliable. |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 28, 2019 23:46:55 GMT
My main point was that most here who describe themselves as secure - I would disagree with strongly. Getting better starts with being honest with yourself. I would also claim that anyone knowingly going back with an FA without the FA proclaiming what's different this time, is not secure. At least with that person, if you are one to think it applies on an individual by individual basis (I'm not a believer in this, though I do agree certain individuals can exacerbate/trigger someone more often). A secure person would have faith in their future with a more appropriate, yet to be identified, person. Completely agree with this. It's easy to test secure (I do, giving honest answers!) - Insecure attachment shows up when it's time to make decisions, in compulsions toward habitual behaviors under stress, in reactions to perceived threats, and in the nervous system. There is a pretty good thread on here somewhere about why attachment tests are not reliable. @inmourning - Hmm...my attachment tests always came up STRONGLY AP in romantic relationships- there was no honest way I could get around my answers! It was just important that I answered the questions based on an intimate relationship w someone I loved...otherwise, I’d be secure, too! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 23:55:55 GMT
Completely agree with this. It's easy to test secure (I do, giving honest answers!) - Insecure attachment shows up when it's time to make decisions, in compulsions toward habitual behaviors under stress, in reactions to perceived threats, and in the nervous system. There is a pretty good thread on here somewhere about why attachment tests are not reliable. @inmourning - Hmm...my attachment tests always came up STRONGLY AP in romantic relationships- there was no honest way I could get around my answers! It was just important that I answered the questions based on an intimate relationship w someone I loved...otherwise, I’d be secure, too! DPH's test doesn't break down into different relationships... I get about 40% secure on that, and my relationship habits are mainly secure. (The next big chunk of course is DA.) However, my deactivation is another story. It takes a healthy relationship to be able to achieve the balance I need to work through the deeper process of avoidant attachment, and developing secure relationship habits is part of that. On Jeb's test I am close to secure but still in DA zone for romantic. Secure in friendships, I can't remember what with my parents, I think Lightly FA, DA? Its been a long time since I took that test. My parents were both very unavailable. |
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Post by stu on Oct 29, 2019 0:04:22 GMT
Heres the thing about those tests though. When someone is not triggered they will generally test more secure based on how they feel people are expected to act, or how they feel when they aren't having their attachment systems activated or de activated. I think that's what is hard to test in a binary way. Because people will change into a different version of themselves when those patterns and triggers take over. And having those patterns and triggers not worked through yet is what makes someone prone to being an insecure attachment style. I don't think people are going to test as insecure as they are actually capabable of being unless they are very down the rabbit hole, or very unaware.
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jules
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Post by jules on Oct 29, 2019 0:21:36 GMT
There are tests that are for different types relationships. And testing is meant to be done periodically as attachment is mutable.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2019 0:41:12 GMT
I've looked for that thread about why the online tests are not necessarily reliable, maybe anne12 can direct us to it ? |
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jules
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Post by jules on Oct 29, 2019 0:54:59 GMT
A good therapist will be able to ascertain your attachment handily. And I don't know a person on this planet who couldn't benefit from a good therapist. Its pretty easy to determine on your own tho, it's about an honest appraisal of yourself. Your track record. Your responses. Knee jerk reaction.
Someone you trust, is smart and who knows you and your intricacies, idiosyncrasies will certainly help you see yourself and your patterns.
*Not some stranger on the internet with zip credentials. Lol
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2019 0:59:13 GMT
I've been amazed at what my somatic therapist has been able to shed light on, in terms of attachment and how it shows up in the nervous system! Very cool stuff.
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Post by dhali on Oct 29, 2019 1:00:38 GMT
Yeah, as I said, my test says secure, very slight anxious bend- but the reality is I’m probably a very slight FA (whatever that means). I’m devining that by thinking back on my relationship history. I have a healthy mix of breaking hearts and having my heart broken. And I claim I want an ltr, but my behaviors don’t line up with that. I’ve never really worked at an intimate relationship in my life. They were always on my terms. I would claim otherwise, but I just found women who would let me lead the way, so to speak. The irony is that I concluded a couple of years ago that when I got something started with the next woman, we were going to start the relationship off in therapy to build the foundation. This was before my knowledge of attachment theory. That next woman happened to be my love bomber. She agreed to doing the therapy, but broke it off before that ever got off the ground.
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Post by 8675309 on Oct 29, 2019 1:06:27 GMT
I think some of you think just because you're a secure you wont get triggered or hang on longer, etc. People need to get over its so easy to brush off or walk away as a secure. Secure is not black and white. Its never just easy to walk away from everyone. Some are and some are not. Like my FA, he triggered the living crap out of me and should of let go sooner. I felt full AP for a short time.
Nobody is 100% secure and Everyone can be triggered by something/someone. Bottom line a secure can openly express needs, communicate them, and understand them. Secures are not triggered by closeness and intimacy. Doesn't mean we dont get anxiety or even trying one last time even though we know we should walk. As we know we can find someone else and get over it. It doesn't make you invincible, make you walk away in an instant, make it less painful, less devastating, make it go away fast, easy brush off, etc.
Insecures in general cannot or can be triggered by intimacy, need too much of it, etc until aware. Say AP may not be able to control reaching out when anxiety filled but the secure can be anxiety filled not reach out. We can still stay in control and not let the anxiety text them.
Just like some of you here are more secure than you think as youre to a place where you understand yourself now more, can understand your needs and communicate them, etc. You now know what is not good for you, red flags you missed before, better/healthy boundaries, what triggers you, etc, etc. Even if you dont test secure.
As far as closure, you need to do that on your own. Your closure is they are not healty enough to be in a relationship and meet your needs, thats all you need to know. Doesnt make them bad people or love them less but you have your closure. They are not right for you.
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Post by serenity on Oct 29, 2019 1:23:17 GMT
Heres the thing about those tests though. When someone is not triggered they will generally test more secure based on how they feel people are expected to act, or how they feel when they aren't having their attachment systems activated or de activated. I think that's what is hard to test in a binary way. Because people will change into a different version of themselves when those patterns and triggers take over. And having those patterns and triggers not worked through yet is what makes someone prone to being an insecure attachment style. I don't think people are going to test as insecure as they are actually capabable of being unless they are very down the rabbit hole, or very unaware. According to most mental health experts I've known, Triggers formed under the age of 7, and moreso the younger the age of the child, are generally imprinted. I think its a bit of a myth that you should `undo them' in order to have healthy romantic relationships and that they automatically `take over' and control your behaviour (unless you are mentally ill). You can choose your behavioral and mental responses to them,as well as who you get involved with romantically, that's what CBT therapy, mindfulness and other therapeutic practices are all about. I would never expect an FA in my romantic life to `undo his triggers' and stop needing cycles of distance. What I believe an FA can do is communicate and behave respectfully, and challenge their negative mindset through therapy. My first ex does this all the time in therapy (especially challenging his mindset about people and himself), and works hard on himself. Second one is probably too narcissistic to do that. |
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