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Post by nyc718 on Oct 27, 2019 4:48:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 5:27:57 GMT
I'm curious enough to challenge you here, take it how it strikes you... it seems like you're agonizing about how to approach this. Some questions:
Do you not trust yourself to be able to present this in a respectful, reasonable way? Why not just bring it up?
Do you realize you have been more openly confrontational with me, a stranger on the internet who in reality has very little impact on your life, than you've been with the man you're sleeping with? Think about this. I'm not encouraging you to CONFRONT him, but what's with the lack of communication and walking on eggshells? Why not just talk like adults? Is this who you want to be, a woman afraid to upset the apple cart by opening communication? Is he in control of this absolutely?
What have you got to lose here? What have you got to gain? Likely, nothing on both counts. It's just a conversation, information, your opinion, a suggestion, whatever it is.... is it so powerfully important that it needs this much consideration? If it upsets him, ok. That's on him. It's not like you're pouring scalding water on his eyeballs. He's an adult. He can handle feedback. He will respond however he responds. He can do whatever he wants with it, it's not like you're calling him nasty names.
This tip toeing around avoidants can't be a good thing. It's just a conversation. Apparently, he reacts however he reacts... to the good, bad, indifferent. If he's that sensitive that the whole thing crashes and he ghosts you or breaks up of whatever, good riddance right? And, what's new? You said you put work in on your growth and have made adjustments. Does he get to enjoy the benefit of that without any reciprocity? You get to decide that ultimately and he's not obliged to do anything. My question is, who are you wanting to be in this? Not a martyr I hope, and not a rescuer. Not a doormat, I'm sure. That stuff doesn't work.
If I had to tiptoe around and anxious person I would feel this same way (and I have been offered the opportunity)- not going to do it. Just be reasonable and offer the info, and let go of the outcome because clearly, no one but him knows what he's going to do. It's like that with all people- don't let it control who you are going to be. It seems like women behaving this way in relation to men don't know they have a voice, or just don't trust that they have a right to use it. It's hard to see.
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Post by mrob on Oct 27, 2019 8:53:56 GMT
I'm curious enough to challenge you here, take it how it strikes you... it seems like you're agonizing about how to approach this. Some questions: Do you not trust yourself to be able to present this in a respectful, reasonable way? Why not just bring it up? Do you realize you have been more openly confrontational with me, a stranger on the internet who in reality has very little impact on your life, than you've been with the man you're sleeping with? Think about this. I'm not encouraging you to CONFRONT him, but what's with the lack of communication and walking on eggshells? Why not just talk like adults? Is this who you want to be, a woman afraid to upset the apple cart by opening communication? Is he in control of this absolutely? What have you got to lose here? What have you got to gain? Likely, nothing on both counts. It's just a conversation, information, your opinion, a suggestion, whatever it is.... is it so powerfully important that it needs this much consideration? If it upsets him, ok. That's on him. It's not like you're pouring scalding water on his eyeballs. He's an adult. He can handle feedback. He will respond however he responds. He can do whatever he wants with it, it's not like you're calling him nasty names. This tip toeing around avoidants can't be a good thing. It's just a conversation. Apparently, he reacts however he reacts... to the good, bad, indifferent. If he's that sensitive that the whole thing crashes and he ghosts you or breaks up of whatever, good riddance right? And, what's new? You said you put work in on your growth and have made adjustments. Does he get to enjoy the benefit of that without any reciprocity? You get to decide that ultimately and he's not obliged to do anything. My question is, who are you wanting to be in this? Not a martyr I hope, and not a rescuer. Not a doormat, I'm sure. That stuff doesn't work. If I had to tiptoe around and anxious person I would feel this same way (and I have been offered the opportunity)- not going to do it. Just be reasonable and offer the info, and let go of the outcome because clearly, no one but him knows what he's going to do. It's like that with all people- don't let it control who you are going to be. It seems like women behaving this way in relation to men don't know they have a voice, or just don't trust that they have a right to use it. It's hard to see. All that is true, @inmourning, but your approach is firmly from the viewpoint of your attachment style.
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Post by stu on Oct 27, 2019 9:26:21 GMT
I'm curious enough to challenge you here, take it how it strikes you... it seems like you're agonizing about how to approach this. Some questions: Do you not trust yourself to be able to present this in a respectful, reasonable way? Why not just bring it up? Do you realize you have been more openly confrontational with me, a stranger on the internet who in reality has very little impact on your life, than you've been with the man you're sleeping with? Think about this. I'm not encouraging you to CONFRONT him, but what's with the lack of communication and walking on eggshells? Why not just talk like adults? Is this who you want to be, a woman afraid to upset the apple cart by opening communication? Is he in control of this absolutely? What have you got to lose here? What have you got to gain? Likely, nothing on both counts. It's just a conversation, information, your opinion, a suggestion, whatever it is.... is it so powerfully important that it needs this much consideration? If it upsets him, ok. That's on him. It's not like you're pouring scalding water on his eyeballs. He's an adult. He can handle feedback. He will respond however he responds. He can do whatever he wants with it, it's not like you're calling him nasty names. This tip toeing around avoidants can't be a good thing. It's just a conversation. Apparently, he reacts however he reacts... to the good, bad, indifferent. If he's that sensitive that the whole thing crashes and he ghosts you or breaks up of whatever, good riddance right? And, what's new? You said you put work in on your growth and have made adjustments. Does he get to enjoy the benefit of that without any reciprocity? You get to decide that ultimately and he's not obliged to do anything. My question is, who are you wanting to be in this? Not a martyr I hope, and not a rescuer. Not a doormat, I'm sure. That stuff doesn't work. If I had to tiptoe around and anxious person I would feel this same way (and I have been offered the opportunity)- not going to do it. Just be reasonable and offer the info, and let go of the outcome because clearly, no one but him knows what he's going to do. It's like that with all people- don't let it control who you are going to be. It seems like women behaving this way in relation to men don't know they have a voice, or just don't trust that they have a right to use it. It's hard to see. All that is true, @inmourning, but your approach is firmly from the viewpoint of your attachment style. It's good to not filter ourselves out of fear of loss, be true to ourselves,and express ourselves honestly. But I can see where you are coming from as well Mrob. There are many different ways one can communicate when expressing this needs and desires. And there is not always a one size fits all approach. It's important to meet people where they are. And sometimes that means adjusting the way you speak and communicate with someone so they stay open and receptive and a mutual dialogue can be had. Not to repress your needs and bottling up emotions. Just finding an effective communication style that works well with the person you are in relationship with.
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Post by mrob on Oct 27, 2019 11:54:25 GMT
That’s not quite what I meant, stu. All those things are true. Effective communication has to happen. My point is that it is without this overwhelming need for others, as in dismissives and to an extent secures, it’s straight forward. For FAs and APs, it can be immobilising. I suppose I’m asking for a little empathy.
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jules
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Post by jules on Oct 27, 2019 12:01:16 GMT
I feel as though the OP is trying to get to a place to appropriately have the conversation. Not avoid it. Not tip toe. For me I very much felt that basically arm chair diagnosing ( with zero credentials aside from my attendance at Google Uni. ) someone is a pretty big boundary crossed. I would take offense if someone did it to me in the wrong way. The OP is trying to be tactful and kind. Honestly, researching the best way to approach this is a really caring, loving thing to do. Clearly she plans on having the conversation, she just is asking how to go about it.
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Post by stu on Oct 27, 2019 12:16:18 GMT
That’s not quite what I meant, stu. All those things are true. Effective communication has to happen. My point is that it is without this overwhelming need for others, as in dismissives and to an extent secures, it’s straight forward. For FAs and APs, it can be immobilising. I suppose I’m asking for a little empathy. Hmm okay I guess I don't understand exactly what you are describing, like the need for others? Is this in the speaking tone or words used? Or perhaps that feeling of someone being coming across as demanding? Or is this in the perspective of an AP and Fa and their respective communication style and ability to communicate in their own personal way? Of course all the empathy is without even saying. Everyone deserves empathy and that's inexhaustable, after all we are all just trying our best and making things work along the way.
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Post by mrob on Oct 27, 2019 13:12:14 GMT
The middle one. It’s the ability to communicate.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 13:42:09 GMT
I'm continuing a convo that OP and I had yesterday on the topic of having conversations. I would assume that she would communicate with him respectfully and reasonably, and I asked her if she doesnt feel she could do that. Beyond that, being able to have the conversation is essential. My post is challenging her simply because it's the third time she created a thread on how to talk to him about this, and she said yesterday she hasn't been communicating. So my post is directed to her, following up on that. If anyone else is offended by it, of course you can chime in, but it's continuing in the vein that she and I communicated yesterday on another thread.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 13:51:35 GMT
That’s not quite what I meant, stu. All those things are true. Effective communication has to happen. My point is that it is without this overwhelming need for others, as in dismissives and to an extent secures, it’s straight forward. For FAs and APs, it can be immobilising. I suppose I’m asking for a little empathy. mrob I get what you're saying, but we all contribute from our attachment style. Case in point, I didn't call you out to ask for empathy when you told caroline that you'd have a problem with the phrase "I miss you" over text after two months of texting only. Where is the empathy of an FA for the person they are engaging? What kind of communication can't include "I miss you" with out being unfair to the person who misses? That's tippy toeing, In my honest opinion, if a person cannot say they miss you without engulfing you. This isn't a personal attack- it's an acknowledgment of how everyone here is posting from their attachment style and a lack of empathy (supposed) shows up in many ways. I'm supportive of OP getting her authentic communication online with this guy as she and I agreed on yesterday. The article author acknowledges the nuances of approaching it. I've shared attachment information far and wide with friends, family, partner, knowing what the information has unlocked and done for me and my relationships. It's been widely recognized by people around me as a wonderful source of understanding and inspiration. It's not been ill received at all. And, is she has diagnosed him internally as FA, I also think it's fair for him to know that because her interactions are based on that understanding. I'm not telling her to slam him. But this is information widely available on the net. There are sources of compassionate info, Like from Diane Poole Heller or the author of the article. The other points I'm making refer to the last thread OP and I engaged in.
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Post by nyc718 on Oct 27, 2019 14:08:32 GMT
I'm curious enough to challenge you here, take it how it strikes you... it seems like you're agonizing about how to approach this. Some questions: Do you not trust yourself to be able to present this in a respectful, reasonable way? Why not just bring it up? Do you realize you have been more openly confrontational with me, a stranger on the internet who in reality has very little impact on your life, than you've been with the man you're sleeping with? Think about this. I'm not encouraging you to CONFRONT him, but what's with the lack of communication and walking on eggshells? Why not just talk like adults? Is this who you want to be, a woman afraid to upset the apple cart by opening communication? Is he in control of this absolutely? What have you got to lose here? What have you got to gain? Likely, nothing on both counts. It's just a conversation, information, your opinion, a suggestion, whatever it is.... is it so powerfully important that it needs this much consideration? If it upsets him, ok. That's on him. It's not like you're pouring scalding water on his eyeballs. He's an adult. He can handle feedback. He will respond however he responds. He can do whatever he wants with it, it's not like you're calling him nasty names. This tip toeing around avoidants can't be a good thing. It's just a conversation. Apparently, he reacts however he reacts... to the good, bad, indifferent. If he's that sensitive that the whole thing crashes and he ghosts you or breaks up of whatever, good riddance right? And, what's new? You said you put work in on your growth and have made adjustments. Does he get to enjoy the benefit of that without any reciprocity? You get to decide that ultimately and he's not obliged to do anything. My question is, who are you wanting to be in this? Not a martyr I hope, and not a rescuer. Not a doormat, I'm sure. That stuff doesn't work. If I had to tiptoe around and anxious person I would feel this same way (and I have been offered the opportunity)- not going to do it. Just be reasonable and offer the info, and let go of the outcome because clearly, no one but him knows what he's going to do. It's like that with all people- don't let it control who you are going to be. It seems like women behaving this way in relation to men don't know they have a voice, or just don't trust that they have a right to use it. It's hard to see. I'm sorry, when was I confrontational with you? And as far as what you think is tiptoeing, I am still just learning about this attachment style, so I am trying to understand how people with this style operate so I can best approach it. When I first came on this board and I fully let out my emotions having just learned about styles to the point I miscategorized him as Dismissive instead of FA, I got roasted. I am trying my best to be respectful here, but if I get a response that seems to be less than kind, I will reply in kind. Now, just like just about everyone here, I think we all know intellectually what we SHOULD be doing, HOWEVER, it's clear that putting what we should be doing in practice is obviously harder. Do I wish he was someone more capable of handling a normal, adult relationship? Of course. Am I afraid of losing him? Yes. I am not ashamed to admit that. Am I working on trying to figure out how to maximize our relationship, knowing he has this personality type? Yes. Do I know that it may not ultimately work out in the end? Very much yes. So there you have it. Yes, I am working on all this, him, me, us. You seem annoyed at me trying to process what I am trying to figure out. I don't know what you want me to say to that.
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Post by nyc718 on Oct 27, 2019 14:11:53 GMT
All that is true, @inmourning , but your approach is firmly from the viewpoint of your attachment style. It's good to not filter ourselves out of fear of loss, be true to ourselves,and express ourselves honestly. But I can see where you are coming from as well Mrob. There are many different ways one can communicate when expressing this needs and desires. And there is not always a one size fits all approach. It's important to meet people where they are. And sometimes that means adjusting the way you speak and communicate with someone so they stay open and receptive and a mutual dialogue can be had. Not to repress your needs and bottling up emotions. Just finding an effective communication style that works well with the person you are in relationship with. Thank you, stu How many times have I seen here, I said this or that, and the reply was, that was too harsh or that probably sent them into distancing. I mean, I'm trying to just learn the best way to approach someone who clearly has an issue with talking about sensitive topics. I'm not sure why inmourning his "challenging" me to just speak the way I speak. Um, because FA's don't receive that. That's why we're all here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 14:13:22 GMT
I'm curious enough to challenge you here, take it how it strikes you... it seems like you're agonizing about how to approach this. Some questions: Do you not trust yourself to be able to present this in a respectful, reasonable way? Why not just bring it up? Do you realize you have been more openly confrontational with me, a stranger on the internet who in reality has very little impact on your life, than you've been with the man you're sleeping with? Think about this. I'm not encouraging you to CONFRONT him, but what's with the lack of communication and walking on eggshells? Why not just talk like adults? Is this who you want to be, a woman afraid to upset the apple cart by opening communication? Is he in control of this absolutely? What have you got to lose here? What have you got to gain? Likely, nothing on both counts. It's just a conversation, information, your opinion, a suggestion, whatever it is.... is it so powerfully important that it needs this much consideration? If it upsets him, ok. That's on him. It's not like you're pouring scalding water on his eyeballs. He's an adult. He can handle feedback. He will respond however he responds. He can do whatever he wants with it, it's not like you're calling him nasty names. This tip toeing around avoidants can't be a good thing. It's just a conversation. Apparently, he reacts however he reacts... to the good, bad, indifferent. If he's that sensitive that the whole thing crashes and he ghosts you or breaks up of whatever, good riddance right? And, what's new? You said you put work in on your growth and have made adjustments. Does he get to enjoy the benefit of that without any reciprocity? You get to decide that ultimately and he's not obliged to do anything. My question is, who are you wanting to be in this? Not a martyr I hope, and not a rescuer. Not a doormat, I'm sure. That stuff doesn't work. If I had to tiptoe around and anxious person I would feel this same way (and I have been offered the opportunity)- not going to do it. Just be reasonable and offer the info, and let go of the outcome because clearly, no one but him knows what he's going to do. It's like that with all people- don't let it control who you are going to be. It seems like women behaving this way in relation to men don't know they have a voice, or just don't trust that they have a right to use it. It's hard to see. I'm sorry, when was I confrontational with you? And as far as what you think is tiptoeing, I am still just learning about this attachment style, so I am trying to understand how people with this style operate so I can best approach it. When I first came on this board and I fully let out my emotions having just learned about styles to the point I miscategorized him as Dismissive instead of FA, I got roasted. I am trying my best to be respectful here, but if I get a response that seems to be less than kind, I will reply in kind. Now, just like just about everyone here, I think we all know intellectually what we SHOULD be doing, HOWEVER, it's clear that putting what we should be doing in practice is obviously harder. Do I wish he was someone more capable of handling a normal, adult relationship? Of course. Am I afraid of losing him? Yes. I am not ashamed to admit that. Am I working on trying to figure out how to maximize our relationship, knowing he has this personality type? Yes. Do I know that it may not ultimately work out in the end? Very much yes. So there you have it. Yes, I am working on all this, him, me, us. You seem annoyed at me trying to process what I am trying to figure out. I don't know what you want me to say to that. I'm not annoyed with you at all. We had a go when you first came on; and now here. I'm not coming from a place of trying to antagonize- it's in the same vein as our convo yesterday. I know you want to work on this but if you read our last thread together you can see where I'm coming from.
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Post by nyc718 on Oct 27, 2019 14:14:16 GMT
I feel as though the OP is trying to get to a place to appropriately have the conversation. Not avoid it. Not tip toe. For me I very much felt that basically arm chair diagnosing ( with zero credentials aside from my attendance at Google Uni. ) someone is a pretty big boundary crossed. I would take offense if someone did it to me in the wrong way. The OP is trying to be tactful and kind. Honestly, researching the best way to approach this is a really caring, loving thing to do. Clearly she plans on having the conversation, she just is asking how to go about it. Thank you for understanding exactly why I posted that. I have no idea where me being proactive and thoughtful with how best to approach and FA became me being some kind of walking on eggshells victim. There is no winning here with some people.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 14:15:12 GMT
It's good to not filter ourselves out of fear of loss, be true to ourselves,and express ourselves honestly. But I can see where you are coming from as well Mrob. There are many different ways one can communicate when expressing this needs and desires. And there is not always a one size fits all approach. It's important to meet people where they are. And sometimes that means adjusting the way you speak and communicate with someone so they stay open and receptive and a mutual dialogue can be had. Not to repress your needs and bottling up emotions. Just finding an effective communication style that works well with the person you are in relationship with. Thank you, stu How many times have I seen here, I said this or that, and the reply was, that was too harsh or that probably sent them into distancing. I mean, I'm trying to just learn the best way to approach someone who clearly has an issue with talking about sensitive topics. I'm not sure why inmourning his "challenging" me to just speak the way I speak. Um, because FA's don't receive that. That's why we're all here. My first question to you NYC is do you not trust yourself to be able to approach it respectfully and reasonably. Is that the concern that leads to the pattern of not having conversations? I'm asking because I'm not understanding.
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