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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 14:16:20 GMT
I feel as though the OP is trying to get to a place to appropriately have the conversation. Not avoid it. Not tip toe. For me I very much felt that basically arm chair diagnosing ( with zero credentials aside from my attendance at Google Uni. ) someone is a pretty big boundary crossed. I would take offense if someone did it to me in the wrong way. The OP is trying to be tactful and kind. Honestly, researching the best way to approach this is a really caring, loving thing to do. Clearly she plans on having the conversation, she just is asking how to go about it. Thank you for understanding exactly why I posted that. I have no idea where me being proactive and thoughtful with how best to approach and FA became me being some kind of walking on eggshells victim. There is no winning here with some people. Ok, I'll leave you alone NYC, I had no idea you wouldn't get where I'm coming from here. Understood and no problem.
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Post by nyc718 on Oct 27, 2019 14:20:49 GMT
I'm continuing a convo that OP and I had yesterday on the topic of having conversations. I would assume that she would communicate with him respectfully and reasonably, and I asked her if she doesnt feel she could do that. Beyond that, being able to have the conversation is essential. My post is challenging her simply because it's the third time she created a thread on how to talk to him about this, and she said yesterday she hasn't been communicating. So my post is directed to her, following up on that. If anyone else is offended by it, of course you can chime in, but it's continuing in the vein that she and I communicated yesterday on another thread. I am on a board for FAs, correct? Is there a limit to the posts I can create as I try to sort this out? And I posted that article thinking perhaps it could be useful (or not ) to other. If you remember, I said my FA is distancing himself and is currently deactivating, meaning, I am not really hearing from him. Am I now wrong to leave him alone and give him the space he needs right now? Or should I just call him and initiate a conversation about this because *I* feel like *I* want to clear the air RIGHT NOW? Yes, you are challenging me, but you aren't challenging me in a productive way. It's confrontational and it feels personal, and I don't know why. It's not about you, is it? I am working on being thoughtful in my approach to someone that I love who needs to be spoken in a different way than I would need to. It's so funny that you seem offended by that.
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Post by nyc718 on Oct 27, 2019 14:24:17 GMT
Thank you, stu How many times have I seen here, I said this or that, and the reply was, that was too harsh or that probably sent them into distancing. I mean, I'm trying to just learn the best way to approach someone who clearly has an issue with talking about sensitive topics. I'm not sure why inmourning his "challenging" me to just speak the way I speak. Um, because FA's don't receive that. That's why we're all here. My first question to you NYC is do you not trust yourself to be able to approach it respectfully and reasonably. Is that the concern that leads to the pattern of not having conversations? I'm asking because I'm not understanding. I can absolutely approach it in a respectful reasonable way. Do you not understand though, that I understand that the mind of an FA works differently, and, like many other people in the world who all have different styles, there are better ways than others to approach certain topics that are delicate to them? That is my goal. I'm not just trying to barrel in there and lay out a bunch of facts about how he operates. I am trying to be mindful and respectful to someone I love who doesn't seem to know he has an attachment style, and I want to approach it in a way that will be received. That's all. I'm not sure what you don't understand.
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Post by nyc718 on Oct 27, 2019 14:25:14 GMT
Thank you for understanding exactly why I posted that. I have no idea where me being proactive and thoughtful with how best to approach and FA became me being some kind of walking on eggshells victim. There is no winning here with some people. Ok, I'll leave you alone NYC, I had no idea you wouldn't get where I'm coming from here. Understood and no problem. I really don't. But Jules and Stu seem to know exactly where I'm coming from :-)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 14:31:13 GMT
Ok, I'll leave you alone NYC, I had no idea you wouldn't get where I'm coming from here. Understood and no problem. I really don't. But Jules and Stu seem to know exactly where I'm coming from :-) I'm sincerely sorry for hurting you NYC, I didn't mean that at all. If you were sitting beside me as I said al that you'd know, but of course words in black and white aren't conveying it. I would have thought you would say "I'm nervous about my own communication style" but I haven't seen that in your threads on the topic - just questions. I could have understood that and responded better, had I known that was the catch. That said, I hope you can see that my points were in support of your authentic communication- and if that needs fine tuning for this I understand it. Not everyone understands things the same way, and not everyone took my post the same way- it's not an attack and there is some humor in it. My experience is that these conversations with people around me have gone very well.
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Post by nyc718 on Oct 27, 2019 14:39:14 GMT
I really don't. But Jules and Stu seem to know exactly where I'm coming from :-) I'm sincerely sorry for hurting you NYC, I didn't mean that at all. If you were sitting beside me as I said al that you'd know, but of course words in black and white aren't conveying it. I would have thought you would say "I'm nervous about my own communication style" but I haven't seen that in your threads on the topic - just questions. I could have understood that and responded better, had I known that was the catch. That said, I hope you can see that my points were in support of your authentic communication- and if that needs fine tuning for this I understand it. Not everyone understands things the same way, and not everyone took my post the same way- it's not an attack and there is some humor in it. My experience is that these conversations with people around me have gone very well. Ok, I accept that, but you did come off as a bit hostile with your " I don't understand" statements and "are you afraid to just speak to him" in a certain way. As far as not directly saying the words " I'm nervous about my own communication style" I didn't say that because it never crossed my mind. I am not nervous about my communication style, but that doesn't mean that I am not mindful enough to know that certain topics needs to be approached in the right way and the right place and time. That's not being nervous, that's me wanting to not waste my time by saying things the wrong way. We are all here because we are struggling either with a certain attachment style or dealing with someone that has an attachment style. If I am posting too much for your liking, I am sorry for that. But as far as I know, anyone can skip a post they don't want to participate in.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 15:02:55 GMT
I'm sincerely sorry for hurting you NYC, I didn't mean that at all. If you were sitting beside me as I said al that you'd know, but of course words in black and white aren't conveying it. I would have thought you would say "I'm nervous about my own communication style" but I haven't seen that in your threads on the topic - just questions. I could have understood that and responded better, had I known that was the catch. That said, I hope you can see that my points were in support of your authentic communication- and if that needs fine tuning for this I understand it. Not everyone understands things the same way, and not everyone took my post the same way- it's not an attack and there is some humor in it. My experience is that these conversations with people around me have gone very well. Ok, I accept that, but you did come off as a bit hostile with your " I don't understand" statements and "are you afraid to just speak to him" in a certain way. As far as not directly saying the words " I'm nervous about my own communication style" I didn't say that because it never crossed my mind. I am not nervous about my communication style, but that doesn't mean that I am not mindful enough to know that certain topics needs to be approached in the right way and the right place and time. That's not being nervous, that's me wanting to not waste my time by saying things the wrong way. We are all here because we are struggling either with a certain attachment style or dealing with someone that has an attachment style. If I am posting too much for your liking, I am sorry for that. But as far as I know, anyone can skip a post they don't want to participate in. Look, there is no hostility and Ive made several attempts to bridge the gap with you here. Not everyone read it the way you did, I doubt that other forum members would be liking a post if they thought it was hostile toward you. If you can't accept or understand where I am coming from in spite of my attempts to convey it, I accept that and I won't grovel. I made my apology and explained myself and will move off your post. Best of luck however you proceed.
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Post by nyc718 on Oct 27, 2019 15:36:29 GMT
Ok, I accept that, but you did come off as a bit hostile with your " I don't understand" statements and "are you afraid to just speak to him" in a certain way. As far as not directly saying the words " I'm nervous about my own communication style" I didn't say that because it never crossed my mind. I am not nervous about my communication style, but that doesn't mean that I am not mindful enough to know that certain topics needs to be approached in the right way and the right place and time. That's not being nervous, that's me wanting to not waste my time by saying things the wrong way. We are all here because we are struggling either with a certain attachment style or dealing with someone that has an attachment style. If I am posting too much for your liking, I am sorry for that. But as far as I know, anyone can skip a post they don't want to participate in. Look, there is no hostility and Ive made several attempts to bridge the gap with you here. Not everyone read it the way you did, I doubt that other forum members would be liking a post if they thought it was hostile toward you. If you can't accept or understand where I am coming from in spite of my attempts to convey it, I accept that and I won't grovel. I made my apology and explained myself and will move off your post. Best of luck however you proceed. Apology accepted, and let's move on. I think at the end of the day, we are all here to support each other. Thanks for your input and thanks for sharing your experiences, it truly is all helpful.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 16:07:22 GMT
Look, there is no hostility and Ive made several attempts to bridge the gap with you here. Not everyone read it the way you did, I doubt that other forum members would be liking a post if they thought it was hostile toward you. If you can't accept or understand where I am coming from in spite of my attempts to convey it, I accept that and I won't grovel. I made my apology and explained myself and will move off your post. Best of luck however you proceed. Apology accepted, and let's move on. I think at the end of the day, we are all here to support each other. Thanks for your input and thanks for sharing your experiences, it truly is all helpful. Yes! Thank you for letting me repair, I sl actually coming from a good place.
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Post by happyidiot on Oct 27, 2019 20:52:26 GMT
I actually read the article (I'm not sure if everyone else replying did) and mostly liked it. I then read a few of her others and I like her perspective. I definitely don't think there is anything wrong with getting ideas on the best way to approach tricky topics with someone you care about! I do think many of the suggestions in this article may only be effective if you are talking about communicating about this subject with someone who you are in a committed relationship with or who is at least not in a state of resisting communication. I don't think people who are, for example, being ghosted by an avoidant person should assume that it's going to get them any results to, for example, text or email an article about attachment theory and say, “What do you think about this?" I like how the author actually focuses on how to start a dialogue about attachment theory, as opposed to how to tell an avoidant person you think they're avoidant. I like the suggestions to tell someone about your own attachment style or ask them if they'd like to take a quiz with you.
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 27, 2019 21:06:12 GMT
I feel as though the OP is trying to get to a place to appropriately have the conversation. Not avoid it. Not tip toe. For me I very much felt that basically arm chair diagnosing ( with zero credentials aside from my attendance at Google Uni. ) someone is a pretty big boundary crossed. I would take offense if someone did it to me in the wrong way. The OP is trying to be tactful and kind. Honestly, researching the best way to approach this is a really caring, loving thing to do. Clearly she plans on having the conversation, she just is asking how to go about it. Thank you for understanding exactly why I posted that. I have no idea where me being proactive and thoughtful with how best to approach and FA became me being some kind of walking on eggshells victim. There is no winning here with some people. I think that all she was trying to say is to look at why you are looking up an article to begin with...surely we all have nuances in how we like to broach topics....but you should not feel the need to adjust yourself to him in order to have these conversations. It is simply an opportunity to see if your authentic self is getting lost because you are trying to meet him half way....especially if he does not reciprocate.
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 27, 2019 21:15:35 GMT
People on the avoidant end of the spectrum (I also like to call them “highly boundaried” because they often feel they need to have walls up to stay safe) are not bad people. They aren’t mean. They often grew up in families where their parents wanted what was best for them. They were likely praised for how they completed tasks or activities rather than how they engaged emotionally. Emotional intelligence wasn’t highly valued in their family. This will be a learning edge for them; it will take time, safety, education, and in all likelihood, a partner or another close person to model what that looks like in relationships.
I literally love this.....that is my mom to a T......highly boundaried.....very task oriented.. I think it is such a brilliant and kind way of speaking about someone who has avoidant attachment.
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Post by serenity on Oct 27, 2019 21:35:42 GMT
I liked the article, but I feel it doesn't really apply to unaware avoidants who have not yet decided to change for the benefit of others. In the `why you shouldn't avoid avoidants' article (there's a link on the page down the bottom) she makes an important qualifier:
``A partner who doesn’t have self-awareness or isn’t interested in growing with you is probably not a good bet. This trait can belong to a person with any primary attachment style. I believe the popular literature that exists about attachment theory does not distinguish between people who are lacking self-awareness and people who have avoidant attachment. They are not the same thing.''
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Post by stu on Oct 27, 2019 22:54:25 GMT
I liked the article, but I feel it doesn't really apply to unaware avoidants who have not yet decided to change for the benefit of others. In the `why you shouldn't avoid avoidants' article (there's a link on the page down the bottom) she makes an important qualifier: ``A partner who doesn’t have self-awareness or isn’t interested in growing with you is probably not a good bet. This trait can belong to a person with any primary attachment style. I believe the popular literature that exists about attachment theory does not distinguish between people who are lacking self-awareness and people who have avoidant attachment. They are not the same thing.'' I read this article and similar ones before and I agree with your sentiments. I was very motivated to do my best to be a solid person for my fa ex and be supportive and encouraging as I thought she was pretty self aware, and wanting to work through her stuff. Even if someone is aware of how they are acting and how their patterns affect other people , that they know things they are doing are not normal and that they are wanting to change. It doesn't mean that even then they are ready to make that jump and be someone who can be a consistent partner. My ex fa said and acknowlesged everything that went on with her without filter and knew that it wasn't normal and that she had a lot of issues and she wanted help, and didn't like the way it impacted her relationships and life. But here is the caveat. Anytime she de activated all of that goes right out the window and she will believe everything her impulses say to stay de activated from the attachment figure she pulled away from like myself. Her mind will tell her all the reasons the other person is to be avoided and not trusted or whatever else. And she will completely change the way she acts and treats me in the midst of that. Later on after de activation stops then the regret, guilt, and shame start to come up. But at that point the damage incurred is already done, and she wasn't in a place to have better awareness and control when she does have those blow outs. And rather then question and challenge those inpulses and feelings, she just followed them without any added awareness or space to separate from the thoughts and feelings. Even though we talked about exactly what happens during a de activation and how what is percieved during it isn't necessariky reality and the acknowledgement of that as well. It still didn't change anything the next time it happened. Because she wasn't quite there yet. So this begs the question of what is a self aware person who is actively working on themsleves and has a better handle on things. That's a really important distinction to make when involved yourself with someone who has those things going on for themselves. Wanting to change and being open, and having a degree of self reflection and self awareness in hindset, or when in a stable mindset is one thing. But it's another to really handle challenging those patterns that come up when de activation happens and being able to hold a relationship together even then.
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Post by nyc718 on Oct 27, 2019 23:06:09 GMT
I liked the article, but I feel it doesn't really apply to unaware avoidants who have not yet decided to change for the benefit of others. In the `why you shouldn't avoid avoidants' article (there's a link on the page down the bottom) she makes an important qualifier: ``A partner who doesn’t have self-awareness or isn’t interested in growing with you is probably not a good bet. This trait can belong to a person with any primary attachment style. I believe the popular literature that exists about attachment theory does not distinguish between people who are lacking self-awareness and people who have avoidant attachment. They are not the same thing.'' I read this article and similar ones before and I agree with your sentiments. I was very motivated to do my best to be a solid person for my fa ex and be supportive and encouraging as I thought she was pretty self aware, and wanting to work through her stuff. Even if someone is aware of how they are acting and how their patterns affect other people , that they know things they are doing are not normal and that they are wanting to change. It doesn't mean that even then they are ready to make that jump and be someone who can be a consistent partner. My ex fa said and acknowlesged everything that went on with her without filter and knew that it wasn't normal and that she had a lot of issues and she wanted help, and didn't like the way it impacted her relationships and life. But here is the caveat. Anytime she de activated all of that goes right out the window and she will believe everything her impulses say to stay de activated from the attachment figure she pulled away from like myself. Her mind will tell her all the reasons the other person is to be avoided and not trusted or whatever else. And she will completely change the way she acts and treats me in the midst of that. Later on after de activation stops then the regret, guilt, and shame start to come up. But at that point the damage incurred is already done, and she wasn't in a place to have better awareness and control when she does have those blow outs. And rather then question and challenge those inpulses and feelings, she just followed them without any added awareness or space to separate from the thoughts and feelings. Even though we talked about exactly what happens during a de activation and how what is percieved during it isn't necessariky reality and the acknowledgement of that as well. It still didn't change anything the next time it happened. Because she wasn't quite there yet. So this begs the question of what is a self aware person who is actively working on themsleves and has a better handle on things. That's a really important distinction to make when involved yourself with someone who has those things going on for themselves. Wanting to change and being open, and having a degree of self reflection and self awareness in hindset, or when in a stable mindset is one thing. But it's another to really handle challenging those patterns that come up when de activation happens and being able to hold a relationship together even then. stu if you don't mind, how old is your ex FA? I've read many of your posts regarding her, and she seems young and immature. You sound pretty wise and definitely more mature than her. If she is young, that could play a huge part in why she seems so out of control, and perhaps as she matures, she will be more able to regulate herself, and be more aware of herself. It is a process no matter what age, but I think older adults may (but not necessarily) have more motivation to change since they have been through more and experienced more enough to say, I need to make a change.
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