Advice for an anxious friend

I think he's in a pattern with narcissists. So that's a whole different layer. This woman takes selfies with him when he takes her out but will take photo after photo and then edit and give up and won't post them on social media if she doesn't think she looks good enough. He just wants her to be happy and proud to be with her man at the football game. Ugh it makes me sick and sad.

Ooohhhhhhhhhhh. Let me see if I have this right, @shiningstar. I feel like I get it. Are you saying that it's painful to hear something like "You can do something about it." because you actually find it very difficult to actually do something about it and it makes you feel inadequate? So it feels helpless? I can see a sense of helplessness in him. I'm not trying to fix him I'm just trying to understand. Because to me, it may take me a long time to realize I need a boundary somewhere but once I do, I feel firm and confident about it and the risk of loss due to the boundary is just part of protecting myself. Again, a core difference. AP protect themselves by not alienating (or trying not to alienate but unfortunately do) and DA protect themselves expecting ultimately that they are on their own in a sense. The problem for me has been registering discomfort and paying attention to it, a challenge that might be appreciated if one understands that the nervous system and conditioning of the mind actually mute discomfort to make it more manageable. I read once, that a dismissive dismisses the threat because it's a way to cope with being unable to actually mitigate it. I see that has operated in my life. Things could be way bad and I can minimize and put a positive spin on it and my body and brain go right along with that. Instead of a hyper vigilance I would say I've seen hypovigilance in some ways, in my life. Settling, in situations. Numbing. Detaching. But when I wake up I wake up good and actually a good boundary is often a good solution to a problem and it seems that that is just the approach avoidants take, cognitively. I guess that's why a lot of us show love through acts of service- idk I digress.

He doesn't seem upset by my suggestions if I say he could set a boundary... he's all over it at the time but I'm not sure he follows through. Anyway, I hope I don't seem like I'm trying to fix him I am just getting insight into things I can't really relate to, generally about the AP style and about him specifically.

Of course in the case of abuse, my opinion is if I have to teach you not to be outright mean to me, we're done.

yes, you're right in all of that. to add on, DAs might see someone's bad behavior as an external "problem" to deal with by providing a "solution" with boundaries; APs internalize that bad behavior as being not worthy of enjoying better treatment. hence, this whole boundary thing is very stressful for an AP. Not only do APs not understand what is a boundary and how to enact it, the growing desire and need to do so makes this lack of efficacy very frustrating, as you have just given an example of.

Boundaries in itself creates lots of guilt and shame because it highlights that we are independent beings deserving of more - something that we don't feel justified in asking for nor deserving of. Having to set boundaries triggers feelings of inadequacies that one is not good enough to deserve good treatment without having the need to ask for it. The fact that I need to ask for good behavior means I myself am not good enough to just warrant it and for it to be freely given; I had to ask for it. It's demeaning and shameful. It's like asking for handouts.

Just to give you more insight, I get even more triggered by my ex who constantly referred to providing me solutions to issues I've brought up about our relationship. It sounded to me like I the problem (cos I was upset that my needs not getting met) and that he was just trying to get rid of my feelings because they pose an imposition on him. It got to a point where I started screaming at him that HE was the problem, not me and my feelings. I bring this up because of the example you said of how mean she was, saying things like "do you need me to go work with you and hold your hand". To him, he's bringing up a problem in the relationship, but her response suggests that HE's the problem. I think that's triggering for him as well, though he might not be conscious of the underlying dynamics here.

Thanks guys, I didn't know it was so distressing for an AP, all the issues around boundaries. I myself would not stop suggesting them to my friend just because he might find the idea triggering, because my authentic input as a friend is what it is. It not that I don't care about his feelings but I wouldn't mute myself to avoid his insecurity. What I typically hear on these boards is, an AP sharing about what a good partner they have been, and that the avoidant or abusive person just was too damaged to improve. But what you're sharing here really illuminates the toxicity of the AP dilemma. I'm not throwing stones, and I'm not trying to upset anyone. But to have that big of a struggle around self care is more damaging than what anyone else can do to you. It's not about blame, it's about acknowledging a very damaging mindset. It's a real problem that even the suggestion of self care can be seen as so offensive, in my opinion. So it seems like in order for a struggling AP to be anywhere near ok, one would have to be walking on eggshells like crazy.
I don't walk on eggshells with my friend, and he keeps coming back. He hasn't been able to find any relief and I'm perplexed about some things I observe. So I'm thankful for all the information, it's truly helpful.

I don't think it's appropriate to withhold suggestions for self care even if it's triggering, though. An AP might see it as an offense or a criticism but that's really their own issue to work out. I think it's important to speak authentically from ones experience even if it triggers, especially if the intent is to encourage and support. I can see where AP might interpret suggestions as hostile, or whatever, but again I see that as their issue that eventually they may resolve or not. I think AP are in the minority with this intense difficulty with boundaries, and they are going to be exposed to boundary talk quite a bit in a lifetime if they share their pain. Right? Secures and avoidants both are more comfortable with boundaries, with avoidants having more rigid or excessive boundaries which can be difficult. Most decent people, when witnessing maltreatment, are moved to encourage solutions. Is that all seen as control and being called inadequate? It's a very difficult thing to do to listen to painful stories as a friend or partner and not look for solutions, only be a witness and receptacle for the pain. I'm glad this isn't an issue between my friend and I- if he expressed that he felt victimized by me too in this, I'd probably respect that and limit exposure to all this because I'm not here to be a bad guy by offering sound advice for self care.

So, I will continue to share with him as I do, and I will continue to share here as well, as I do. But now I understand some of the reactions I have seen to myself and other posters (there are many who speak to the need for boundaries!). At times it's been absolutely baffling to me but with the amount of internal distress around boundaries which you are describing, it makes sense.

you are absolutely right to continue to suggest self care because it's something that's quite foreign to APs and learning from more secure others was very helpful for me. the point of me explicating all of these is to highlight that APs might have reactions that are baffling to most people, and these insights might be helpful in understanding why that is so and have compassion for it, not that you should withhold suggestions for it. I'm saying that your suggestions may be very en-point and constructive, may also touch on very raw wounds that are not yet conscious in his awareness and therefore provoking baffling reactions - which i think you've already seen and experience. 

My experience is that I felt triggered and hurt, but not angry at my friends for suggesting things; it's alot of anger towards myself for being ineffective and stupid. I believe that your friend keeps coming back because he appreciates the authenticity and honesty that you have shown him, that's something that I didn't have much from my parents and I often felt gaslit by the world. Friends who tell me directly what the problem is, even if it hurt, are greatly appreciated. I think he's very lucky to have you on his side!