Ideal Dynamic Thread

Hi there...welcome to the group.  I am the same way...if a man comes across too keenly, then I start to question his motives and I become very avoidant and tend to dismiss him/put up huge walls.  The second group you describe is actually, for me, my weakness as those men tend to be either DA, FA or narcs.  A huge red flag for me is the need to win someone over....a secure man would not play games the way insecure men do.  The last guy I dated was FA and he admitted that all the women he dated pursued him.  He was very chill and laid back, but had addiction issues and trauma growing up.  I actually do not want the laid back, in control man anymore.  I have had plenty of those to know that the outward appearance of control is hiding inward demons that make him unavailable for a true relationship.

i want a man who is open, communicative, able to problem solve, able to think from a me,you, us perspective. But I am also ok if I remain single.

I think for FA (I am one, and sometimes recovering and sometimes not), even this “ideal relationship” is a distancing technique and a fantasy to keep us disengaged. And depending on your age, if your are anything over 35 and on OLD, you will run into droves of insecurely attached men. A securely attached man on OLD will like a needle in a haystack. So I think the best thing is to go with the punches and if you want to date and have a partner (which it seems like you do), you will still have to go through all the motions to find somebody. So I think just get yourself and keep a journal of all your dating experiences and eventually you will find someone who will be close to the “ideal”, And let your assessment and feelings be your guide, but in a grounded pragmatic way.

I’m in a similar boat that I ended a relationship last year and did all kinds of what I thought was growth and then still squarely attracted an avoidant. And to be honest it was incredibly painful. The whole experience was even more jarring then when I was still fumbling without this knowledge years ago.

Yes yes omg yes!

I was so frustrated about the last guy I dated for a few months who seemed consistent and secure (until the end) but ultimately said I'm not his normal physical type and he wasn't feeling the kind of attraction he wanted to. The reason this was frustrating was I've honestly never met someone I had such compatible values and lifestyles with! I ended up saying that we were clearly looking for two different things then since I prioritize values and he stammered that values is only one part of the equation 🙄 Fine, it's not like I want to be with someone who isn't attracted to me, but it was still frustrating that he basically has a fetish for one type of woman and thinks "it's a mystery." Because that seemed very insecure to me.

(But this is why it takes some time to really get to know who people are, which is what we did, so I felt mostly frustration for a few days at the end but no devastation.)

Of course, I used to do the same when I was insecure because I didn't understand that feeling "overwhelmed" with emotion wasn't sustainable or love, it was my anxiety getting set off -- until I was endlessly triggered over a toxic guy I was seeing in my mid 20s who I realized I didn't even like as a person... that was the first time I started thinking about what creates chemistry and attraction, and it took another 10 years to re-condition out of that mindset into what you're talking about, alice 🤦‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️

alice, I meant he felt attraction was a complete mystery and doesn't understand it at all. He just feels it so it's "out of his control" so to speak, which (since I've felt that way in the past) I believe is the insecure disconnection from self.

But what you're saying about some people chasing mysteriousness and losing interest later on is also totally correct. That's a symptom of only being attracted to unavailability (and kind of to their own projections). If people are doing this to you, chasing but then losing interest suddenly without communicating about it after you've been open, then you're also correct that they were likely of an insecure style. So you're better off because it was bound to happen eventually, and in those cases, sooner is better.

What do you mean that you can't figure out yourself?

And, not trying to threadjack here, hopefully we're still enough on-topic

I agree, amber. "Or u arnt enough like their parents." I'd actually assumed this was the issue since his type is so specific. Physically not just like his mom, but I suspect the stereotypical personality traits of his type would have been similar if I'd ever met her.

And I totally think just not being physically attracted to someone from the beginning for whatever reason is legit. It's just when months have passed and the person is like I lost attraction for you suddenly though you haven't changed, or I dated you a while, and long enough to get to know you, but oops was never attracted at all and feeling attracted is important to me, reflects something unhealthy.

Visualizing a healthier relationship is actually quite important I think - it helped me in clarifying goals (somewhat) and putting in boundaries on what is/is not ok on situationships. It seems like you're still on the journey of understanding and disentangling your current state, which is good for you if you are high need for cognition and need to sensemake alot to gain some self-awareness both from your own pov and from a more objective third party pov. For myself, the obsessing over it was really helpful (not healthy necessarily) but having alot ofwords/terms/understanding around the situation, myself and the other party helped me to gain some objectivity over the situation. 

What I found helpful in addition to visualizing is to imagine and define for myself what I wanted to ideally "feel" everyday, and consider how the relationships I have contribute to that feeling. I find that visualization quite helpful in centering myself. For example, I made up my mind that I want to feel "safe, secure, stable, loved, calm, strong, entertained, amused, contented, easy" everyday. every thing I do/person I get involved with, I ask myself how does this contribute to these feelings? is someone acting in a way that makes me feel secure and strong? am I feeling amused and easy when i'm interacting with this task/person? I think this way, it takes alot of pressure off yourself and others to fit certain forms/ideas you might have that you think you need/want. This way it allows for alot of diversity into your life because things come in many different forms, but can have the same effect on you. It also highlighted to myself what I need to be in order to create those feelings. Do I act in ways that support these feelings myself i.e., do i make myself feel strong, secure, entertained, amused? Do my actions create those feelings within me? I found that focusing on creating the subjective reality I want very helpful in making sure I act in ways that support myself as well as judging if someone is appropriate for me. 

So for you, perhaps what you're saying is that you want to feel "understood, supported, desired, easy, mutual, free, appreciated, admired"? I'd love to hear what you want to create for yourself!