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Post by alexandra on Jan 17, 2021 0:41:07 GMT
seeking, in regards to your experience, yes, you're absolutely right. It does get harder to find someone when you're closer to 50 than 40, because a lot of men who wanted families started them already and are probably already committed and off the market (or may only be looking for women to have more children with). For emotionally healthy commitment, that leaves you with widows, men who prioritized their careers and maybe have realized they want something else, and men who either really just married the wrong person and learned from it and/or earned secure later in life (probably after bad relationships or divorces of their own). I found someone who, like me, earned secure later in life. He has never had a significant other from the internet before because it didn't work for him either. If you don't see room for shoving a partner into your life, or feel motivated to make the room, there's nothing wrong with wanting to be single. I'm pretty sure I even told you to take time off from dating when you first first first began posting here. Having a lot of other things going for you is great. If I was a little older (when it would definitely be too late for me to have a kid, it's almost too late now) or a few years younger (still had some time to wait), I wouldn't have bothered trying to date during this pandemic, online or otherwise. It's hard! Doable, but hard. However, you have posted for months about dating and trying to date, so it seems like in actions you wanted a relationship (and maybe that changed and now you don't, and that's fine too). So I just don't want to see you giving up out of avoidance and resignation. But taking the initiative to say, my life is pretty awesome and it's okay to be single, and if I happen to meet someone great then that's great too but I'm just going to keep enjoying other aspects of my life until then -- that's secure, and that truly is commendable that you've gotten to that point from where you started when you first posted. I don't actually advocate for online dating. I see it as a supplemental pool to expand your access to play the numbers game (meeting enough people until you find someone compatible, if you aren't lucky enough to meet them right away). When I'm saying take a break versus giving up totally, I really mean take a break from all dating, but the point of a break (especially from online) and not just deciding it's forever based on how you feel now is to give yourself time to change your perspective / not feel burnt out. Maybe if and when you feel like returning to dating there will happen to be someone new who you come across who is a better fit. But there's no guarantees, breaks are primarily about where you are in your process and how you feel and maybe you've become so burnt out you're not open / emotionally available, and after some time away you will be open and emotionally available later. I am also not as young as you think. I've actually been online dating for almost 20 years and am at the very end of my reproductive years. I was researching sperm banks when the pandemic started because that is the point I'm at in my window closing. Except then the pandemic derailed that plan. I couldn't do it safely and totally alone while isolated from everyone I know due to physical distance. With that on hold and knowing the pandemic would last until the very last minute for my open window, I figured I should resume looking for a partner in the meantime since I was just sitting indoors anyway. But I have the same issues as you, in that when you're in your 20s there's a larger % of single people around and out and about (school, socializing), so it's easier to meet people. But I never found that had anything to do with being of "childbearing" age, and I never found that theoretically having children on the table increased my dating options. I've met and chosen lousy partners most of my life, and it was because I had an insecure attachment style and was only attracted to men with commitment issues. In fact, I feel like I have more options now but they are not suitable -- I've been approached by fairly attractive and successful men who assumed, because I still didn't have kids at my age, that I don't really want kids that much, and neither do they. They were looking for women of an older age so that they didn't need to worry about it, and who still seemed attractive and balanced. So I want to challenge you on some things you said around the children topic. In several of your posts, you've basically said you don't really see how to have a relationship that doesn't revolve around children, or at least rely on them as the glue to stay together. Maybe I'm off here, but I think that perspective is a place that you can dig into to find some insight. I potentially see two things going on here: 1. You sound like a really good mother, and like you have a secure relationship with your daughter. That may be your only secure, truly close relationship. So I can understand how that may be one of the strongest parts of your own identity, that you have the most confidence in yourself about. The "role" that feels most comfortable in a life -- and we've discussed before that your extended family assigned roles in your childhood that you aren't comfortable with yet are still stuck with. You have a lot of other things going for you in your life, as you also said, but how much value and connection do you feel in those things? Pride? AP and anxious FA have weaker identities, which is why they look for external validation and emotional regulation. This makes me wonder if "mother" is the main way you know how to define yourself, especially when you haven't experienced secure relationships that don't involve children (and posted how you'd fight with those men all the time). I strongly suspect that you weren't fighting with those men because there weren't children involved -- it was because you both had attachment issues. But you've processed it in this way that has created a perspective of, I don't know how to connect to men without having children to bond us. 2. Going back to the fantasy bonds that exist from your family, of the idea that if you're all together being a picture perfect family that quiets your anxiety and makes everything feel okay. Even if it's just on the surface and temporary. That sounds like at some point you got this idea, probably from parents or someone always talking about how important kids are and a family should be -- even as their words didn't match their actions (and your family was dysfunctional). So I think you still kind of chase that idea and see your partnerships with men in service to it, and since you can't rely on men as you've never had a secure relationship with one, that means the security comes from the kids, and that is what will keep you together. That also relates to what you said about your sister and ex, and how kids can also be used as a shield for intimacy issues. Busying yourself with raising them can allow you to ignore some of this stuff, until you can't ignore it anymore. Both of these would tie back to you not feeling entirely comfortable and solid with who you are, that's why you don't know what you even have to give a man besides children. I really think that your take on it being the men who don't see your value is projection. Even if you are a little older than me, and even if a lot of men still have gender assumptions and issues, there are also men who don't and see women as more than mothers. I've gotten really lucky, because my boyfriend is perfectly happy to have kids, but he also is comfortable imagining a life where that isn't in the cards. I'm really worried that I won't even be able to once I'm in a position to start trying due to my age, so it's comforting that we will be able to discuss other options and I don't think he'd just leave if we got to that level of commitment but then we find out that I already missed my window. Again, I'm not saying all this as, keep going and trying to date. I think you should explore if there's any resonance in what I said about the children stuff whether you intend to resume dating one day, whether online or offline, or not. Because it will strengthen how you feel about yourself and your identity to keep understanding your narrative of how you got to this place, and help you challenge yourself and ultimately heal. And healing is for you, not for you to then go be in a relationship if you don't want one and it's a liability. There's no need to settle or be with a man just to be with someone. It's just about feeling connected to yourself and confident and feeling self-acceptance for what you want.
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Post by seeking on Jan 23, 2021 13:38:26 GMT
Hey alexandra . I don't know how to tag. But I had a busy week and just wanted to come back to this. First, I so much appreciate all your support, all your wisdom, all your good practical advice, insights. It's been such a huge help and support to me and I'm really really grateful. Just wanted to say that. Also I'm just going to respond to the first part here and read the rest....I definitely think it's resignation. I'm not avoidant at my core. I think I'm more anxious. But I think I've given up. This is why. Last week, as I was writing here - and reading people's responses, I thought - okay, why not - I'll go up for another week, and put my ad back up on OK cupid. Within a couple hours, three guys liked me. One was hot and a clinical psychologist - right up my alley .... then I looked at his ad, and it said "open to non-monogamy" again, atheist, etc. Normally, I wouldn't respond but I just said "Oh, I'm very monogomous." And he asked what I meant? (This is where it's like, oh right we're in online dating land of speaking a different language) - I mean you said you're open to non-monogomy. Next, he goes into an entire long paragraph about how at least he's more honest than other guys who would just cheat, and I'll find out that he's the most loyal guy out there. None of it made any sense. I didn't respond, and he blocked me ? The next guy seemed okay but one thing bothered me (totally small thing, but just noting it b/c I do notice these things). He wrote several times that he's a great kisser and always looks forward to that kiss on the first date. I think he brought up kissing like 3 times. That doesn't bother me as much as it says something about his emotional IQ. I have a guy friend who is like "I'm VERY aware that most women are VERY aware that a man like can't wait to do something physical - she gets that attention all the time." And thank you friend with a high emotional IQ. Like you really think you need to spell it out or some girl you don't know is super excited to hear how you can't wait to kiss someone? Anyway, I did like him back, and he never wrote or did anything. Last, Another guy I liked back - he'd already written and and we started off strong. Then I realized he kept hitting the same one note and it was more about him being clever than really engaging with me. Then he wrote a lot about himself and no questions back to me and I just wrote "cool." And I guess he got it. So he asked a question. Fine - but he lives nearly 2 hours away. And he really just wants to talk about himself. And... ... it's like..... wow. Who has time for this? The guys who've liked me since all this are absurd. No one I would even ever go near. I really get about zero interactions with men I'd even consider and so it's not worth it to me. I get numbers games (lord, the numbers) - but I don't get to have a reasonable conversation with anyone and maybe I didn't make that clear before .... it's not like in the old days when I dated and I'd have 10 guys that I'd be talking to and 1 or 2 would have clear issues, 2 or 3 would be not that great looking but really nice or funny, and 1 would seem really potential. No - none of that. This is just like pure Twilight Zone 24/7 and it can get really depressing and bizarre. And I can ignore a lot of it, but it's not like there is anything good coming out of it to counteract. And maybe it is more site-specific, but I've tried at least 7-10 dating sites over the years.... some are truly horrible, some I keep coming back to and are "ok" - But I think after years of being single - and meeting my ex (a nightmare) on a dating site, the next guy (a love addict/codependent) and then this recent guy ... I mean, it makes like zero sense for me to continue. I'm not bad looking. I'm intelligent, emotionally healthier than probably a lot of women out there, my own sense of humor, kind, self-aware.. so I'm not sure what the actual issue is or why I can't meet a decent guy. I was told by a friend to read Deeper Dating (which I adore - but that doesn't solve my "finding a man" problem) and Calling in the One - which I haven't read yet, but maybe that would help, I don't know. |
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Post by seeking on Jan 23, 2021 13:45:10 GMT
I don't actually advocate for online dating. I see it as a supplemental pool to expand your access to play the numbers game (meeting enough people until you find someone compatible, if you aren't lucky enough to meet them right away).
This really makes me think I'm doing something wrong.
There is no *meeting*
There's like not even getting past the first few emails. Or even getting an email from a guy who seems like someone I'd talk to (there are TONS of those) - they just have no interest back. And maybe that's a good thing b/c they are probably the cocky avoidant types I used to go for. So I really don't know.
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Post by seeking on Jan 23, 2021 14:09:01 GMT
And, yes, alexandra - what you said is correct. #1 is correct - esp. about I'd fight with those men anyway. I do have a strong work identity. I always have - work and being a mom. The rest, not so much. I had sex appeal with men. That was it. I was hot. (I am saying was b/c a lot has changed - health, weight, etc) - I still take care of myself, but I've been through a lot - had a baby, massive trauma, health issues (thyroid, chronic fatigue, lyme). What I'm working on right now with myself is TRUE LOVE - like loving me as is. not trying to get back to that super sleek, well-dressed, svelte, skinny hot girl. She was a wreck inside - like truly a wreck. And the guys I attracted then (several of whom I still know) are no longer attracted to me. They were great guys - smart, super intelligent, successful, hot themselves. But now messes in their own way - one nearing 60 who doesn't want to work, a writer. Another living across the street (of all things) who is still super hot, but non-monogamous and left his wife who he has 4 kids with. Like no thanks. It was fun back in the day - but they have no interest in me anymore. I'm "fat" now (Not really but lord I was 5'7" and 100 lbs - not anymore).... and I'm no longer a mess. They have no one to save. It's not interesting or complicated. And there were a few who "got away" but that's because they were emotionally available and I became avoidant. So now it's a new era. And the rare (apparently too rare that he doesn't exist) man who is strong, confident, intelligent, and can appreciate me maybe not foremost for sexiness but for friendship, comfort, support, love... I think the biggest thing I'm looking for at this stage is a partner. Just a life partner who has the ability to be a witness, a source of love, and kindness.... I think I need to heal on that level. And maybe he does too. In the world of online dating, that doesn't seem to be *a thing*- there are 60 other girls out there who are in hot yoga poses with symmetrical features and showing you that they can look great in sweats, a red dress, work clothes, etc. I'm an Enneagram 5 - that will never be my strength. |
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Post by seeking on Jan 23, 2021 23:14:28 GMT
1. You sound like a really good mother, and like you have a secure relationship with your daughter. That may be your only secure, truly close relationship. So I can understand how that may be one of the strongest parts of your own identity, that you have the most confidence in yourself about. The "role" that feels most comfortable in a life -- and we've discussed before that your extended family assigned roles in your childhood that you aren't comfortable with yet are still stuck with. You have a lot of other things going for you in your life, as you also said, but how much value and connection do you feel in those things? Pride? AP and anxious FA have weaker identities, which is why they look for external validation and emotional regulation. This makes me wonder if "mother" is the main way you know how to define yourself, especially when you haven't experienced secure relationships that don't involve children (and posted how you'd fight with those men all the time). I strongly suspect that you weren't fighting with those men because there weren't children involved -- it was because you both had attachment issues. But you've processed it in this way that has created a perspective of, I don't know how to connect to men without having children to bond us. 2. Going back to the fantasy bonds that exist from your family, of the idea that if you're all together being a picture perfect family that quiets your anxiety and makes everything feel okay. Even if it's just on the surface and temporary. That sounds like at some point you got this idea, probably from parents or someone always talking about how important kids are and a family should be -- even as their words didn't match their actions (and your family was dysfunctional). So I think you still kind of chase that idea and see your partnerships with men in service to it, and since you can't rely on men as you've never had a secure relationship with one, that means the security comes from the kids, and that is what will keep you together. That also relates to what you said about your sister and ex, and how kids can also be used as a shield for intimacy issues. Busying yourself with raising them can allow you to ignore some of this stuff, until you can't ignore it anymore. Both of these would tie back to you not feeling entirely comfortable and solid with who you are, that's why you don't know what you even have to give a man besides children. I really think that your take on it being the men who don't see your value is projection. Even if you are a little older than me, and even if a lot of men still have gender assumptions and issues, there are also men who don't and see women as more than mothers. I've gotten really lucky, because my boyfriend is perfectly happy to have kids, but he also is comfortable imagining a life where that isn't in the cards. I'm really worried that I won't even be able to once I'm in a position to start trying due to my age, so it's comforting that we will be able to discuss other options and I don't think he'd just leave if we got to that level of commitment but then we find out that I already missed my window. Again, I'm not saying all this as, keep going and trying to date. I think you should explore if there's any resonance in what I said about the children stuff whether you intend to resume dating one day, whether online or offline, or not. Because it will strengthen how you feel about yourself and your identity to keep understanding your narrative of how you got to this place, and help you challenge yourself and ultimately heal. And healing is for you, not for you to then go be in a relationship if you don't want one and it's a liability. There's no need to settle or be with a man just to be with someone. It's just about feeling connected to yourself and confident and feeling self-acceptance for what you want. This is all so incredibly smart! #1 Yes, I think the main way I have *brought value* to the relationship in the past is sex. Then being a great mother - which my ex did not appreciate. And I guess I would like someone to... But beyond that, this post really got me thinking - and really helped me see... and shift, I think. Which is exciting! Thank you again so much, alexandra!! This really helped: "and since you can't rely on men as you've never had a secure relationship with one, that means the security comes from the kids, and that is what will keep you together. That also relates to what you said about your sister and ex, and how kids can also be used as a shield for intimacy issues. Busying yourself with raising them can allow you to ignore some of this stuff, until you can't ignore it anymore." (or sex, sexiness/sex appeal, etc) So now I can't ignore it anymore b/c I don't have kids with a partner. And likely now I won't. And I'm suddenly imagining this new man - who is cool. A little older. Even a little overweight (not sure why) and good looking, and solid. And reliable, and dependable. And he just loves me. And maybe he's not mr. high emotional iq - but he gets it. And he's stable. And supports me very much (I work, I always will) and just deeply cares for me - and it doesn't have to be about kids (I'm getting the sense his kids are older/grown/college) or sex - though that is super important for connection, etc. But it's not like I have to constantly look good. Etc. We share politics, share faith in god, care about each other, support one another, take trips, do "family" outings. That's it. It's quiet and stable and lovely.... So thank you for helping me "hatch" that new dream of a man.  No idea if I'll ever every meet him or how. But it feels really nice... to imagine. This is important too: "Both of these would tie back to you not feeling entirely comfortable and solid with who you are, that's why you don't know what you even have to give a man besides children." Like what do I have to offer THIS man? And maybe that's a question I can't answer/don't know yet. I see men like this - I know a handful I can think of right away - but they are family men. They've had kids. They are faithful. They are bound by marriage and children. Good guys. What would that guy want with me now? My fear is someone "normal" and I'm someone more "quirky" (by nature of my job, how I think about things, etc.) I'm not like the girl-next-door... in some ways I can be. So yeah, what is my identity? Lol. How do I find out? |
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Post by alexandra on Jan 27, 2021 9:28:37 GMT
This made me really happy to read, seeking! What you're imagining also is you sorting out what you want, which makes the whole process easier. In regards to your descriptions of the guys you were chatting with or matching with, I wouldn't have bothered with those men either. The one who kept talking about kissing was definitely looking for sensuality above all else. I don't think you're doing anything wrong, except perhaps using OK Cupid lol. I always spoke to / met the strangest folks on there, and it wasn't a great one for finding people more serious about a connection. When I get a chance, I will send you a PM and tell you what I did that eventually worked better for me, but it's too specific in details to want to post publicly. But the summary version is, it was about shifting my perspective to be advertising myself as I am without trying to "attract" a wide net, and maybe that meant fewer matches but they were higher quality. More about my personality in a subtle way, less emphasizing the physical beyond here's a clear view of what I look like. And then being okay with men looking at my profile can take it or leave it, and if someone with a profile that looks attractive to me doesn't match or message, then it's no loss because we probably wouldn't have been very compatible anyway (if we were, he might have been more drawn to match). So it was more about not only filtering on my side but trying to get the men to filter in a way, that the ones most interested in my personality and not just looks would self-select, while making it easier for those that wanted to talk to find conversation starters. Eliminating obstacles for the men who did want to reach out, in a way (such as, what do we initially talk about -- writing that first message to be interesting enough to spark a conversation can be hard for some people!). In regards to the numbers game, that is how it goes... when I shifted from AP to secure and had a better filtering process and perspective, my allocation of matches and conversations switched from probably about 90% avoidants to 1/3 AP 1/3 avoidant 1/3 secure. That's still not a huge number of "reasonable" matches, maybe 4 I might want to try to meet (and 2 who would actually show up) out of every 10 actual conversations and tons of profile swipes to GET to 10 conversations (many of which wouldn't last more than 2 sentences). So that's also why it's like, if you're feeling burnt out, don't force yourself. Because, at least for me, I'd get frustrated that the conversations weren't going anywhere AND I was spending a bunch of time and effort just going through profiles, so if I was burnt out and not enjoying it at all then my attitude was too much that it was a chore which meant I needed to get offline. When I took breaks when it got to that point, it always felt like a relief!, and I'd usually stay off at least a couple months. If not for the pandemic, I imagine other ways of trying to meet people might be more efficient or at least more fun, and I'd just started going to singles in person dating events with themes of interest to me before the pandemic started and ended that experiment. "not trying to get back to that super sleek, well-dressed, svelte, skinny hot girl. She was a wreck inside - like truly a wreck. And the guys I attracted then (several of whom I still know) are no longer attracted to me. They were great guys - smart, super intelligent, successful, hot themselves. But now messes in their own way - one nearing 60 who doesn't want to work, a writer. Another living across the street (of all things) who is still super hot, but non-monogamous and left his wife who he has 4 kids with. Like no thanks. It was fun back in the day - but they have no interest in me anymore. I'm "fat" now (Not really but lord I was 5'7" and 100 lbs - not anymore).... and I'm no longer a mess. They have no one to save. It's not interesting or complicated." This is perfectly said and astute. Those guys who were insecure are following the pattern of the unaware ones who don't grow just as can be expected. And you're better off that it didn't work out. It's also a really good sign that they AREN'T attracted to you anymore because it means you have more to offer than the superficial levels they can handle. "Like what do I have to offer THIS man? And maybe that's a question I can't answer/don't know yet. I see men like this - I know a handful I can think of right away - but they are family men. They've had kids. They are faithful. They are bound by marriage and children. Good guys. What would that guy want with me now? My fear is someone "normal" and I'm someone more "quirky" (by nature of my job, how I think about things, etc.) I'm not like the girl-next-door... in some ways I can be. So yeah, what is my identity? Lol. How do I find out?" You don't have to know the answers to these questions yet, but it's steps forward that you're asking that. There are men who like being in relationships for more reasons than sex... for some of those things you listed yourself: comfort, companionship, stability, someone they can share new experiences with and maybe learn from. There's nothing wrong with you being quirky, and as long as you get yourself more emotionally stable and grounded and connected to yourself, a man who is on your level and is curious and wants to learn about new things will appreciate your quirkiness even if they are "normal." There's some threads around here about ways you can lean into your identity. This one may be a good place to start: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2941/ap |
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Post by seeking on Jan 30, 2021 12:27:33 GMT
Alexandra - I'm going to respond to your reply soon. Thank you!
In the meantime - yikes. I got caught off guard by a big episode of dysregulation. I watched it all happen and it was painful. And kind of reminds me why it's easier NOT to date. Most days I feel really sane, healed, good, etc.
This was like I'd never done any work!
I was contacted by someone that had me pretty excited - like oh "perfect" - so much of what I'm looking for - single (no kids) lives nearby open to more kids, high intelligence with wit (in a good way - not a nasty, sarcastic way). But then a few of his photos I was like - mmm I think he's pretty over-weight, here we go again. So I immediately felt that mash-up happen inside me - why can't I just "have it all" - someone fit and attractive AND the things I'm looking for. And this weird feeling sorry for myself - like I guess I can't, and I have to just accept that. And this shame of - I'm not like everyone else. They can have it all b/c they're better. And then I reminded myself that I'm overweight. Not like him but I am. So I evened the playing field -
He wrote me a paragraph at first - I wrote one sentence back.
he reponded and asked a question - and I again wrote two lines - one was a kind of demand "Send me one of her poems." and that was it. I was feeling that DA or FA - and in this arrogant state - in that he's "less than" dysfunction that can happen with (it seems) avoidance or he has "more value" (with anxiety), the whole thing started.
He said he'd send me one of his favorites.
The day went on and I found myself checking, and checking. I saw him online but no note back. This went on for hours of the day - online, no note back.
I felt that familiar panic.
Shoot. Why couldn't I have engaged him more? Say something nice?
Then deeper panic.
OMG what if he doesn't write me back at all. What if he's like "She's a narcissist." or "No thanks."
So it felt like too much pressure, and I wrote him again (something I normally would not do) - "Oh, I looked her (poet) up, she's pretty heady. Anyway, sorry if I was a bit glib earlier, busy day. What do you do in ___________ (town he lives)?"
Then KEPT CHECKING.
For god's sake this is painful.
It's hard to get *REALLY CLOSE* (at least on paper) -
I did not think he would go away that much. He seemed like someone who would keep responding and send me further into avoidance and focusing on his weight.
This time I looked at his photos and he didn't look THAT BAD - how is that possible? Your whole perception shifts??? That's insane. (I'm saying this more as an observation because it's wild).
So now I'm filled with regret, anxiety, sadness - thoughts of "I could have been this close to having my person, now I totally blew it up and have to go all the way back to ground zero." etc.
It's so amazing how that avoidance swoops in - right away - Oh, I wouldn't be attracted to him b/c of his weight. Then Oh, he's not that bad - wow, that picture's hot. Or - on the flip side it could be turned on me "I can't talk to this guy, he'll reject me b/c of MY weight or something else. etc."
So I guess I have more work to do. Kind makes me want to cry. The awareness is huge, I realize. But it doesn't always stop the pain.
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Post by seeking on Jan 30, 2021 14:13:10 GMT
In regards to the numbers game, that is how it goes... when I shifted from AP to secure and had a better filtering process and perspective, my allocation of matches and conversations switched from probably about 90% avoidants to 1/3 AP 1/3 avoidant 1/3 secure. That's still not a huge number of "reasonable" matches, maybe 4 I might want to try to meet (and 2 who would actually show up) out of every 10 actual conversations and tons of profile swipes to GET to 10 conversations (many of which wouldn't last more than 2 sentences). So that's also why it's like, if you're feeling burnt out, don't force yourself. Because, at least for me, I'd get frustrated that the conversations weren't going anywhere AND I was spending a bunch of time and effort just going through profiles, so if I was burnt out and not enjoying it at all then my attitude was too much that it was a chore which meant I needed to get offline. When I took breaks when it got to that point, it always felt like a relief!, and I'd usually stay off at least a couple months. This feels like it nailed it for me. But it's also a relief to know that this was a similar experience and it's not like SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH ME - it may be more that this is how "healthy" (meaning you're not just saying yes to everyone) online dating goes. I have a friend who meets one guy after another. I think she doesn't even take her profile down. And she's always trying to GIVE ME ADVICE Ugh. Because I'm "still single." Meanwhile - I wouldn't touch any of the guys she goes for with a ten-foot pole but she still has a major co-dependency traits that she normalizes. I actually had to stop talking to her (I miss her) but she was so consumed with men all the time. She got engaged to someone and still had her ad up. He sounded like a hot mess. So I guess if that's what I'm comparing myself to then, whatever. But yeah, my experience has been more like what you're describing above. And the breaks come out of that MASSIVE effort with little ROI- but I'm back again and getting some new contact and I'm super upfront about my politics, that I believe in God, that my kid/family is where I'm at right now (more than travel/adventure). That I'm deeply invested in my work. I put that much out there. And it's helped. So I guess that was a good move. |
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Post by seeking on Jan 30, 2021 20:49:52 GMT
This is perfectly said and astute. Those guys who were insecure are following the pattern of the unaware ones who don't grow just as can be expected. And you're better off that it didn't work out. It's also a really good sign that they AREN'T attracted to you anymore because it means you have more to offer than the superficial levels they can handle. Ahhhh, this really helps! I sometimes will go back and think "A" wouldn't like me now (an ex), etc. And that is probably a good thing! It really meant that our love, the first time around, was really conditional. And, another thing - I'm doing deep work right now on the faux window of tolerance and idea of the false self (created as a survival mechanism growing up with narcissism) - and I think I was just living in that place for so long - out of my window, not truly me - or even if I were being truly me it was with people who were subtly (or overtly) rejecting of me (like my parents could be). I mean, my daughter's father - who I met and had a kid with 13 years ago - he was HORRID - he "couldn't decided if he liked me" (he said that to me). He criticized my clothes, hair. He showed me who he was in like 10 minutes flat but my anxious attachment came out and, well - all that to say, I'm getting to know more my true self. And being okay with her, loving her, and I think that will result, yes, in a much different animal than what I was doing. |
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Post by seeking on Feb 2, 2021 22:59:45 GMT
I'm just going to say it. I don't like liking people. I find it agonizing. I just want to like someone and be in a committed relationship with them. The anxiety of liking someone in the early days is like extraordinarily painful.  |
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Post by seeking on Feb 4, 2021 14:38:05 GMT
So thoughts on this - this guy has been writing me but it's spread out. Like if I reply, I get a reply from him a day later. And that's fine. It slows things down, lets me notice my anxiety. But his last reply - two full paragraphs was a dreaded NO QUESTIONS.
He commented about liking something in my reply. But that's it.
I'm too old for this. This is the kind of dynamic that makes me want to get big, bold - say "hey do you want to talk more." or be direct - I'm not getting the sense you're feeling the connection. I guess it's a little like healthy aggression? Not needed in early online communication! So I think I really need to be off online dating.
The guys I like NEVER like me back. Even if they write me, it ends up like this. Like you wrote me first. What do you want here?
UUUGH.
I think being in a really cozy place in my life right now just feels like why do I want to invite THIS into my life? More agony.... it really hardly feels worth it. I guess that is a very avoidant mindset. But I'm feeling so little motivation right now.
But would love any (secure) thoughts on this guy and his emails.
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Post by alexandra on Feb 4, 2021 20:15:34 GMT
It's easier and more organic for me to keep a conversation going with questions when it's more direct and mutually conversational ie over the phone. Just the way my conversation style is. You can see if he wants to talk and see how it goes from there? If you don't like talking on the phone, you can schedule it for no more than whatever amount of time so that you can hang up without chatting that long.
I also hated liking people when I was AP. I'd get so anxious. It was me being triggered, though. Eventually, as I got more secure and started trying to more slowly get to know someone without putting pressure on myself that it had to be something and I needed to know if it was going somewhere quickly, before we actually knew each other (ie more based on my AP projections), it made it less of a big deal and helped a lot to regulate my nervous system.
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Post by seeking on Feb 5, 2021 13:40:02 GMT
Thanks, Alexandra. I think it's just painful because I like this person and I can't tell if I'm getting a "he's just not that into you." Or if this is any indication of his communication style (he works from home, has no kids, it takes him a couple days to respond?) I think there's something triggering about communicating with a man on a dating site that is showing a lack of enthusiasm. that's part of my wounding - I cut through his dense paragraph about politics and just said "So have you always lived in _________? Ever married? Pets? " - just trying to keep it a little light and simple but no response. Why write a woman on a dating site but then not ask her questions or show real interest - enthusiasm? Lol. It's maddening. |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 5, 2021 20:39:11 GMT
Well, that's true too. If there's no progress moving forward and it's getting stuck in email or texting infrequently only after a couple weeks at most (ie no mention of ever talking on the phone or video or meeting, comfortable with pen pals), the guy may have something else going on and not be looking for something seriously. So you can listen to your gut, but if you like him you can test the waters to get a little more information before bailing. My boyfriend and I took longer than usual to move to "real life" and it was at my initiative, but it was a combination of pandemic-related reasons plus he told me he respects that in an online situation he's a random internet stranger man and so prefers the woman leads to make sure she's comfortable. Once I took initiative a couple times, it balanced out. But he still was consistently messaging prior the entire time even though he wasn't escalating.
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Post by seeking on Feb 5, 2021 21:16:12 GMT
Alexandra, yes, I suppose I have a little resistance to the initiating because it makes me feel AP and I want to avoid starting in that "energy" of I had to pursue you kind of thing - but he's already liked/written first - and even a lot of guys will send a "like" and not write, but he took the time to write me.... I just don't know why, since then, it's been off. Other than my initial slight weirdness - but I really don't think that's it.
I guess this has been "consistent"
So maybe still within range of possibility.
I think I'm also being impatient because I do want to take my ad down for now, but I don't want to do it before I've figure out what's going on with him....
Thanks for the reassurance, though. Really appreciate it!
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