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Post by doctora on Jul 17, 2021 21:41:42 GMT
No worries. Take this time to heal and mourn the relationship but don't stay there too long. In a way, you and I fell for a scam. Love scam that is time wasting, emotion wasting and not to mention financially in a way. I would like to reframe "loving his potential". Thing is for DA/FA, they do not have potential. They only have a mask. You fell in love with a mask. A façade. Deep inside, they are hollow, incapable of love because they do not know what love is. They just want a housemate that they can have sex with while they keep you at arm's length, keep secrets, be passive-aggressive, compartmentalise their lives etc and they think that's love. Its not. That is friendship, not relationship. A relationship needs commitment and commitment is the very thing that scares them. What relationship in this case? if you allow this to happen, you'll never get any form of commitment from them and they're ready to check out as soon as things gets even slightly hard. Just like how he treats his own therapy. Do you want to be in a relationship with someone with constantly at the back of your head, he's going to pull the pin any minute? Even having that thought is mentally abusive. I really take exception to this post....I am FA and I am not a narcissist and I have great empathy. You keep pushing your relationships onto all DAs and FAs like we are all the same....we are not....and a DA or FA is not a narcissist....a narcissist is a personality disorder...not an attachment wound. I know you are still hurt from your relationships but your posts are really misleading and frankly damaging. I invite you to read back over my posts to gain some understanding of how one FA person has struggled with her wounds and is trying to work her way towards secure. Ok, just to clear some things up, in my opinion, a DA is often, to put it really simply, a teachable narcissist. Or at least presents as one, inconsistently.. Someone with NPD is rigid, fixed. DAs can have narcissistic behavior. His posts are not damaging. |
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Post by doctora on Jul 17, 2021 21:46:35 GMT
I would like to reframe "loving his potential". Thing is for DA/FA, they do not have potential. They only have a mask. You fell in love with a mask. A façade. Deep inside, they are hollow, incapable of love because they do not know what love is. They just want a housemate that they can have sex with while they keep you at arm's length, keep secrets, be passive-aggressive, compartmentalise their lives etc and they think that's love. Its not. That is friendship, not relationship. A relationship needs commitment and commitment is the very thing that scares them. What relationship in this case? if you allow this to happen, you'll never get any form of commitment from them and they're ready to check out as soon as things gets even slightly hard. Just like how he treats his own therapy. Do you want to be in a relationship with someone with constantly at the back of your head, he's going to pull the pin any minute? Even having that thought is mentally abusive. No. Why no?? This is totally on the money. I cannot stand how people don’t seem to understand what we went through. It’s upsetting. Dullboat is right. Whether you call it a mask or potential is almost irrelevant. |
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Post by mrob on Jul 17, 2021 23:18:55 GMT
As an FA who recently went through an anxious relationship and multiple breakups, and who has been on the avoidant side more than once, I get it.
I’ve been genuine in whatever I’ve done. If I’ve been in the pre deactivated stage of FA where it’s all rose petals and sweetness, it’s been genuine, not some cruel bait and switch game. Deactivation is utterly frightening and ultimately very sad for everyone.
I miss my FA ex, who I knew was FA from the start, but I certainly don’t miss the ride. The predictable ride, thanks to a bit of knowledge about attachment theory.
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 18, 2021 3:48:38 GMT
I really take exception to this post....I am FA and I am not a narcissist and I have great empathy. You keep pushing your relationships onto all DAs and FAs like we are all the same....we are not....and a DA or FA is not a narcissist....a narcissist is a personality disorder...not an attachment wound. I know you are still hurt from your relationships but your posts are really misleading and frankly damaging. I invite you to read back over my posts to gain some understanding of how one FA person has struggled with her wounds and is trying to work her way towards secure. Ok, just to clear some things up, in my opinion, a DA is often, to put it really simply, a teachable narcissist. Or at least presents as one, inconsistently.. Someone with NPD is rigid, fixed. DAs can have narcissistic behavior. His posts are not damaging. We can disagree…I find his statements to be very damaging in that they are built out of generalizations. Every single insecurely attached individual can display narcissistic behaviors at times…both anxious and avoidant. |
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Post by dullboat123 on Jul 18, 2021 9:54:52 GMT
Only damaging to the fragile egoistic inner child of an avoidant that takes everything personally and cannot stand an iota of criticism. Which is in line with my avoidant ex. It was extreme walking on eggshells around her. Even my seemingly harmless joke of "Ah your friends are here, you're going to join them instead of studying right?", made her to stonewall me for 3 days even after I apologized profusely.
If observations in line with the findings of Jeb Kinnisson himself and branded "generalizations", then we can all brush off scientific data as mere "generalizations" or an inconvenient "coincidence".
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Post by mrob on Jul 18, 2021 11:57:55 GMT
Mind you, I’d probably ignore a guilt trip loaded statement like that, too. If that’s indicative of the manipulative way I’d been spoken to for a period of time, before I knew about this, I would have ignored you for days. Can you see why? That’s not a joke, that’s covert manipulation, and nobody manipulates me. If you can’t see that, I suggest you go back to the drawing board yourself.
For what it’s worth, nobody speaks to me like that these days. Not twice.
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Post by dullboat123 on Jul 18, 2021 12:30:21 GMT
Only to someone emotionally unavailable with an emotional depth of a goldfish. Which is fair enough. They're just not for normal human interactions. I'm not her father. Whether she studies or not is none of my business and I couldn't care less. There's no guilt tripping there. Its just a question. Speaking about waking on eggshells around avoidants.....
I've been on this planet for more than 40 years, I've never had anyone stonewall me for a comment like that, let alone someone who claimed to love me and wanted to marry me.
Thats why I laugh when avoidants says they can love. Their version of love is like a kid telling me he is an expert in maths when he knows 1+1=2.
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Post by dullboat123 on Jul 18, 2021 12:58:00 GMT
I really take exception to this post....I am FA and I am not a narcissist and I have great empathy. You keep pushing your relationships onto all DAs and FAs like we are all the same....we are not....and a DA or FA is not a narcissist....a narcissist is a personality disorder...not an attachment wound. I know you are still hurt from your relationships but your posts are really misleading and frankly damaging. I invite you to read back over my posts to gain some understanding of how one FA person has struggled with her wounds and is trying to work her way towards secure. Ok, just to clear some things up, in my opinion, a DA is often, to put it really simply, a teachable narcissist. Or at least presents as one, inconsistently.. Someone with NPD is rigid, fixed. DAs can have narcissistic behavior. His posts are not damaging. That is very very true. Research also showed UNAWARE avoidants can exhibit some narcissistic behaviors like not taking responsibility for relationship troubles, selfishness and low empathy for others. One of the most memorable things my family said to me after knowing how my avoidant ex treated me was that she is the same as my narcissistic ex wife. |
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Post by mrob on Jul 18, 2021 13:10:10 GMT
You seriously can’t see how that’s manipulative? Joke or otherwise?
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Post by dullboat123 on Jul 18, 2021 13:23:19 GMT
Even if its manipulative, how is stonewalling or being passive aggressive going to help?
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Post by mrob on Jul 18, 2021 14:26:13 GMT
For me, a couple of things:
If I feel manipulated, I go numb. A twilight zone between angry and sad. I’m either going to say something I’ll regret, or cry. Sometimes saying nothing is better. Maybe that stupid old chestnut “if you don’t have anything nice to say, say nothing at all?” It’s taken me a long time to not shut down.
My Nana could manipulate anyone, and it’s not a part of my life. I move on at the first sight of it these days in friendships or relationships.
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Post by alexandra on Jul 18, 2021 17:14:05 GMT
Even if its manipulative, how is stonewalling or being passive aggressive going to help? That "joke" was also passive aggressive. So she responded in kind. My FA ex used to make jokes like that at me constantly yet he meant every one, until I was walking on eggshells because I felt like I couldn't do anything good enough for him. And I have never been avoidant. I didn't respond with stonewalling or passive aggressiveness yet the outcome in our dynamic was also the same, so what is anyone supposed to do with mean-spirited "jokes"? They are wildly disrespectful and erode trust and chip away at self-esteem for as long as both people stay even if you don't see them as manipulative. It goes back to both of you lacking proper communication skills with each other and a bad dynamic. |
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Post by annieb on Jul 18, 2021 19:42:13 GMT
Only damaging to the fragile egoistic inner child of an avoidant that takes everything personally and cannot stand an iota of criticism. Which is in line with my avoidant ex. It was extreme walking on eggshells around her. Even my seemingly harmless joke of "Ah your friends are here, you're going to join them instead of studying right?", made her to stonewall me for 3 days even after I apologized profusely. If observations in line with the findings of Jeb Kinnisson himself and branded "generalizations", then we can all brush off scientific data as mere "generalizations" or an inconvenient "coincidence". You don’t have to be a fragile egotistic child to be offended by your statement. That statement is loaded with presumption and is just plain odd. No person with healthy self esteem would conjure that statement and then victim blame the other person for reacting the way they can. Avoidant or not your ex was reacting to a backhanded unnecessary “joke”. Why did you even say that? Do you understand it’s backhanded and a total insult to a likely already stressed out student? |
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Post by dullboat123 on Jul 18, 2021 21:41:54 GMT
You don’t have to be a fragile egotistic child to be offended by your statement. That statement is loaded with presumption and is just plain odd. No person with healthy self esteem would conjure that statement and then victim blame the other person for reacting the way they can. Avoidant or not your ex was reacting to a backhanded unnecessary “joke”. Why did you even say that? Do you understand it’s backhanded and a total insult to a likely already stressed out student? Funny. She said both my kids are spoiled and predominantly useless and they will never get a partner next time, to my face, multiple times. And yet I have the emotional intelligence, depth and maturity to calmly explain to her that its not a nice thing to say, that they are not that bad and I'm working very hard to teach them as they're still kids with the very limited time I have with them. Doesn't she understand that its an absolute insult to me and my 4 and 7 year old children to a single dad that is already stretched to his limit dealing with a narcissistic ex wife and trying my absolute best being a father and a partner for an emotionally unavailable woman? Mind you, she had said to me before, to call someone "useless" in her culture, is the ultimate insult and you do not say that to anyone without expecting a fight and in her Maori culture, tribal killings. If I behave like her or an avoidant, I'll storm out of the house and stonewall. Which is more productive, go figure. |
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Post by dullboat123 on Jul 18, 2021 21:45:44 GMT
For me, a couple of things: If I feel manipulated, I go numb. A twilight zone between angry and sad. I’m either going to say something I’ll regret, or cry. Thats why you need therapy to have the emotional depth to deal with such things in a mature manner. Either you call it out immediately, tell the perpetrator how you feel and correct the action....or brush it off by saying "you're a dick" like 80% of Earth's population would do and carry on. No need to be numb, no need to freeze, no need to stonewall because it isn't productive at all. Not to mention stonewalling is the last but not the least of the 4 Horsemen of Divorce and relationship breakdown as found by John Gottman. Suffice to say, one of the main issues of an unaware avoidant is that their conflict resolution is extremely poor. Which is why they mainly have no real friends and their relationships shallow. This serves as a major red flag in identifying avoidants or difficult people in the dating phase. |
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