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Post by dullboat123 on Jul 21, 2021 22:43:03 GMT
Dullboat, sending you a hug. I think you deserve compassion, too. Yes especially after being jerked around by avoidants and then coming on here to have avoidants say its all my fault. |
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Post by blacksnow2 on Jul 22, 2021 21:27:40 GMT
Why no?? This is totally on the money. I cannot stand how people don’t seem to understand what we went through. It’s upsetting. Dullboat is right. Whether you call it a mask or potential is almost irrelevant. Because dullboat's post history is riddled with misplaced anger and invalid conclusions based on unprocessed pain. Try again when you stop using other people as placeholders for the individual who hurt you. |
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Post by dullboat123 on Jul 22, 2021 22:30:10 GMT
Because dullboat's post history is riddled with misplaced anger and invalid conclusions based on unprocessed pain. Try again when you stop using other people as placeholders for the individual who hurt you. Thats after being gaslighted and thousands spent on therapy thinking its my fault all the time only to have my psychiatrist and therapist both say there is nothing wrong with me. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 23, 2021 1:53:43 GMT
Why no?? This is totally on the money. I cannot stand how people don’t seem to understand what we went through. It’s upsetting. Dullboat is right. Whether you call it a mask or potential is almost irrelevant. Because dullboat's post history is riddled with misplaced anger and invalid conclusions based on unprocessed pain. Try again when you stop using other people as placeholders for the individual who hurt you. I agree blacksnow2 |
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Post by blacksnow2 on Jul 24, 2021 12:41:12 GMT
Because dullboat's post history is riddled with misplaced anger and invalid conclusions based on unprocessed pain. Try again when you stop using other people as placeholders for the individual who hurt you. Thats after being gaslighted and thousands spent on therapy thinking its my fault all the time only to have my psychiatrist and therapist both say there is nothing wrong with me. Which no one here is responsible for. |
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Post by annieb on Jul 25, 2021 14:59:26 GMT
One insult doesn’t cancel out the other insult and I’m sorry it went into tit for tat with her, that is the worst. But I understand you are saying that her coping methods are different than your coping methods. We all deal with stress differently and it’s what we know and are capable. When I think of my last DA and his coping methods, they now seem comical to me. They seem like there is no way I could have had a relationship with him that lasted more than a year, but I do not try to understand his methods any more. Because I do understand them, I accept them and we are moving on and hopefully one day we both meet someone, who can interact with us in a more constructive way, for both of us. Because even though he is a DA and is pretty horrible it was me who hung in there for dear life with him, and that’s my responsibility. I take that and I move forward. With you it seems like you still haven’t looked at why you repeat this pattern in your life. What is your role in this and most importantly the feelings you feel about yourself - are you trying to make them come from her, so you don’t have to own them?. That’s the general sense I get from your posts. You’ve basically assigned her the source of all your negative feelings and closed the case. If you can access this trap, you will make progress. You are still here so I think subconsciously you are trying to. What I'm trying to point out is that stonewalling, under any circumstances is considered a destructive behaviour. No good will ever come out of that. I'm just calling a spade a spade. I do not condone stonewalling and just let it slide as "we all deal with stress differently". No. Stonewalling is classified as abuse and in some countries, domestic violence. I was constantly on the receiving end of it with my ex and I can tell you it is mentally abusive. No. I feel that you shouldn't take it upon yourself that you hung onto a DA. Its your capacity to love and that is totally not a bad thing. You hung in there because you think there is potential though there is none. Its hollow. They operate with a mask depending on who they're with or their aim as researchers found. I'm sure the DA isn't horrible ALL. THE. TIME. Or else leaving him quick smart will be apparent and easy. Thing is with avoidants, they blow hot and cold, string you along and have no idea the devastation they caused. Then to add salt to the wound, blames it all on you for the relationship break down. Those gets us trauma bonded. Almost like Stockholm syndrome. All because we have faith, we have love and we have commitment. That is the light within us which they took full advantage of. It is only my 2nd relationship except my marriage. So no, its not really a repeat pattern in my life. Both relationships are unique and devastating in their own ways and I have no experience prior to spot the red flags. I owned my issues, spend countless hours and dollars in therapy. But in the end and confirmed by my therapists, I realized I'm being gaslighted. That is why all the negatives are tied to her. How would you feel if I told you your kids are useless and that they'll never find a partner? Completely agree that stonewalling is an unacceptable behavior in a relationship. The difference is how one reacts to stonewalling. A secure person would simply walk away from that relationship at the first instance of stonewalling. I mean the first instance. They wouldn’t try to change the person so they stop the stonewalling. That’s codependent behavior and pretty much the pain from that state is why we all ended up here. When I hung in there with my DA I was indeed hanging in there for my own fantasy. I was filling in the blanks and that is a dangerous place. I would have ended up dead in that relationship from the hand of that man. I was trauma bonded and he would have eventually murdered me. It was my responsibility to preserve my life and after continuous evidence that my life was in danger I still stayed. Only after I left that relationship (by the grace of god I had the strength) and was in therapy did I start seeing my own motivation. And while it was noble at the first glance and I was kind to this man, my motivation wasn’t pure. I wanted to change his world view of women and of me, prove that women are kind and generous and everything I was for him. He would have still murdered me eventually. Intermittent reinforcement and hot and hold are terrible controlling behaviors we fell for, but it is our job to recognize them and leave immediately. It’s like drugs and alcohol. It’s the exact same thing. It’s an addiction and only we - the addicts have the power to abstain from the substance and heal. I still think you are using her and the avoidants here as scapegoats. I do not believe you’ve owned your issues and you haven’t truly let your real self be. I think you could be on your way and kudos to you for going to therapy, but rarely do we get a clean bill of health from a therapist in such a short term. It just isn’t a common practice, and therapy is a long term event. If it were a short term event, I would argue it incomplete. I’m not saying therapy should take ten years, but on average people who benefit take a while. I would even see if there is research behind it and see what the average talk therapy timeline was. Because as it is now I don’t think you’re making progress and you’re frustrating the forum members, who are literally godsend to us. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 25, 2021 16:55:47 GMT
What I'm trying to point out is that stonewalling, under any circumstances is considered a destructive behaviour. No good will ever come out of that. I'm just calling a spade a spade. I do not condone stonewalling and just let it slide as "we all deal with stress differently". No. Stonewalling is classified as abuse and in some countries, domestic violence. I was constantly on the receiving end of it with my ex and I can tell you it is mentally abusive. No. I feel that you shouldn't take it upon yourself that you hung onto a DA. Its your capacity to love and that is totally not a bad thing. You hung in there because you think there is potential though there is none. Its hollow. They operate with a mask depending on who they're with or their aim as researchers found. I'm sure the DA isn't horrible ALL. THE. TIME. Or else leaving him quick smart will be apparent and easy. Thing is with avoidants, they blow hot and cold, string you along and have no idea the devastation they caused. Then to add salt to the wound, blames it all on you for the relationship break down. Those gets us trauma bonded. Almost like Stockholm syndrome. All because we have faith, we have love and we have commitment. That is the light within us which they took full advantage of. It is only my 2nd relationship except my marriage. So no, its not really a repeat pattern in my life. Both relationships are unique and devastating in their own ways and I have no experience prior to spot the red flags. I owned my issues, spend countless hours and dollars in therapy. But in the end and confirmed by my therapists, I realized I'm being gaslighted. That is why all the negatives are tied to her. How would you feel if I told you your kids are useless and that they'll never find a partner? Completely agree that stonewalling is an unacceptable behavior in a relationship. The difference is how one reacts to stonewalling. A secure person would simply walk away from that relationship at the first instance of stonewalling. I mean the first instance. They wouldn’t try to change the person so they stop the stonewalling. That’s codependent behavior and pretty much the pain from that state is why we all ended up here. When I hung in there with my DA I was indeed hanging in there for my own fantasy. I was filling in the blanks and that is a dangerous place. I would have ended up dead in that relationship from the hand of that man. I was trauma bonded and he would have eventually murdered me. It was my responsibility to preserve my life and after continuous evidence that my life was in danger I still stayed. Only after I left that relationship (by the grace of god I had the strength) and was in therapy did I start seeing my own motivation. And while it was noble at the first glance and I was kind to this man, my motivation wasn’t pure. I wanted to change his world view of women and of me, prove that women are kind and generous and everything I was for him. He would have still murdered me eventually. Intermittent reinforcement and hot and hold are terrible controlling behaviors we fell for, but it is our job to recognize them and leave immediately. It’s like drugs and alcohol. It’s the exact same thing. It’s an addiction and only we - the addicts have the power to abstain from the substance and heal. I still think you are using her and the avoidants here as scapegoats. I do not believe you’ve owned your issues and you haven’t truly let your real self be. I think you could be on your way and kudos to you for going to therapy, but rarely do we get a clean bill of health from a therapist in such a short term. It just isn’t a common practice, and therapy is a long term event. If it were a short term event, I would argue it incomplete. I’m not saying therapy should take ten years, but on average people who benefit take a while. I would even see if there is research behind it and see what the average talk therapy timeline was. Because as it is now I don’t think you’re making progress and you’re frustrating the forum members, who are literally godsend to us. I would also like to add that relationships are hardly ever black and white with one person being the victim and one person being the abuser…..the fact is, in both of your relationships, you made an active decision to stay…..that choice to stay is solely yours…no one held a gun at your head….so you contributed to the abuse by not leaving after the first sign that something was wrong. That is solely your responsibility to yourself…to protect yourself from harm since you are an adult and are able to make choices. The issue as I see it is that there is a lot of “I did…but she did…” which is just a defense mechanism against owning your own role. And just as you were not forced to stay with your partners…you are not forced to stick with therapists who feed into that perspective…unless you truly are not interested in looking into the choices you made and how you contributed to the dynamics. I see this set of forums as an opportunity to learn….but then, to grow….which is what everyone who has responded to you is attempting to guide you towards. If that is not of interest to you, then perhaps this isn’t the right set of forums for you. |
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Post by dullboat123 on Jul 26, 2021 6:05:19 GMT
I would also like to add that relationships are hardly ever black and white with one person being the victim and one person being the abuser…..the fact is, in both of your relationships, you made an active decision to stay…..that choice to stay is solely yours…no one held a gun at your head….so you contributed to the abuse by not leaving after the first sign that something was wrong. That is solely your responsibility to yourself…to protect yourself from harm since you are an adult and are able to make choices. The issue as I see it is that there is a lot of “I did…but she did…” which is just a defense mechanism against owning your own role. And just as you were not forced to stay with your partners…you are not forced to stick with therapists who feed into that perspective…unless you truly are not interested in looking into the choices you made and how you contributed to the dynamics. I see this set of forums as an opportunity to learn….but then, to grow….which is what everyone who has responded to you is attempting to guide you towards. If that is not of interest to you, then perhaps this isn’t the right set of forums for you. No. That is victim blaming. You simply cannot tell a domestic violence survivor that they contributed to the abuse by not leaving. |
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Post by annieb on Jul 26, 2021 10:57:12 GMT
They are not contributing to the abuse, but by staying they are prolonging the abuse. It’s sometimes very difficult to snap out of it, I’ve been in a couple relationships where my friends had to say that to me - basically stop being a victim, and as much as that stung at the time (because I felt shame for my situation), it was the thing that helped me to get out of that mindset and those relationships.
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 26, 2021 11:16:18 GMT
No. That is victim blaming. You simply cannot tell a domestic violence survivor that they contributed to the abuse by not leaving. Again…you are clinging to a victim mentality and are not seeing your role….which is…you did not leave…even when you knew this relationship was wrong for you. And you could leave….nothing was keeping you there except promises that you clung to. I like the way that annieb put it…you prolonged the abuse by staying…and a secure person would not have stayed. |
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Post by dullboat123 on Jul 26, 2021 23:45:52 GMT
No. That is victim blaming. You simply cannot tell a domestic violence survivor that they contributed to the abuse by not leaving. Again…you are clinging to a victim mentality and are not seeing your role….which is…you did not leave…even when you knew this relationship was wrong for you. And you could leave….nothing was keeping you there except promises that you clung to. I like the way that annieb put it…you prolonged the abuse by staying…and a secure person would not have stayed. I wonder where you come from and the domestic violence legislation in your part of the world. Its quite bizarre, borderlining offensive to have that sort of view on abuse victims. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 27, 2021 0:48:48 GMT
Again…you are clinging to a victim mentality and are not seeing your role….which is…you did not leave…even when you knew this relationship was wrong for you. And you could leave….nothing was keeping you there except promises that you clung to. I like the way that annieb put it…you prolonged the abuse by staying…and a secure person would not have stayed. I wonder where you come from and the domestic violence legislation in your part of the world. Its quite bizarre, borderlining offensive to have that sort of view on abuse victims. That has absolutely nothing to do with my comments to you…but I can see that trying to reason with you is absolutely not going to be effective so like several others who have decided to leave you be, I will also. I still think these forums may not be the right fit. |
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Post by dullboat123 on Jul 27, 2021 0:56:03 GMT
That has absolutely nothing to do with my comments to you…but I can see that trying to reason with you is absolutely not going to be effective so like several others who have decided to leave you be, I will also. I still think these forums may not be the right fit. Oh yes it does. Why don't you go to your local Women's Shelter and say the same thing to them - "you contributed to the abuse by not leaving after the first sign that something was wrong. That is solely your responsibility to yourself" or "you are clinging to a victim mentality and are not seeing your role". I understand what you and the rest of the people saying. I do own my issue. But has any avoidants on here understand where I'm coming from or its simply a case of "what avoidants do" where they take everything personally? |
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Post by annieb on Jul 27, 2021 13:33:07 GMT
As a matter of fact - yes! Now that I look at my past behaviors, the first time I learned about abusive relationship and abuse cycle and that it is a thing was when I was 25, I had already been in an abusive marriage for 4 years and my mother had been in an abusive marriage. While I received counseling I wish the counselor had seen through me and offered a little bit more tough love. To really look inwards like I have now. Because otherwise maybe I wouldn’t have gotten into another even more devastating abusive relationship years later, and maybe I wouldn’t have stayed beyond the first few months (I left that relationship and went back several times before I made the final exit).
Yes, I wish someone would have helped me see the WHY I was doing it, and why I stayed for as long as I did in that first relationship and my motivation and really shook me by my shoulders figuratively like my therapist does now. I wish I had met her years ago because she doesn’t hesitate to challenge me.
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 27, 2021 14:17:51 GMT
That has absolutely nothing to do with my comments to you…but I can see that trying to reason with you is absolutely not going to be effective so like several others who have decided to leave you be, I will also. I still think these forums may not be the right fit. Oh yes it does. Why don't you go to your local Women's Shelter and say the same thing to them - "you contributed to the abuse by not leaving after the first sign that something was wrong. That is solely your responsibility to yourself" or "you are clinging to a victim mentality and are not seeing your role". I understand what you and the rest of the people saying. I do own my issue. But has any avoidants on here understand where I'm coming from or its simply a case of "what avoidants do" where they take everything personally? But I am not talking to anyone at a woman’s shelter, I am talking to you and specifically to your own relationship that you put in this forum. I would like to think I would first listen to each of their stories. I would really like to hear more about how you are owning your role…..please provide those details….what did you do that did not protect yourself? What would you do differently now? What changes in your own behavior are you implementing? Who are your accountability partners? This is how change happens…by looking at your own role and making changes. |
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