|
|
Post by tnr9 on Aug 4, 2021 12:58:13 GMT
Hi and welcome….I am an aware FA who tends to lean AP in relationships and also chooses FA males who tend to lean more avoidant. The last guy I dated wanted to be “friends” after he broke up with me and to be honest…..it did not work for me….primarily because I still had feelings which were more then just a friend and really struggled with misreading mixed signals (words that implied he only wanted a friendship with physical signs he was still interested…cuddles that were more then friendship cuddles etc).
Something to consider…what if she finds someone else that she wants to date? Are you going to be ok with it? If not….then I would suggest cutting things off, with kindness. As you know…one of the attributes of AP is staying in relationships because of a hope that things will work out. If she is unaware and not inclined to do any of her own work…you are going to still be in a come close/move away dynamic….she might feel more at ease…but that is because there is no pressure in a friendship….she can come and go without feeling she owes you anything.
I don’t think you need to insist…insisting will put her in a defensive position.…I think you just need to lay out what you need…use i statements….such as….I really like you and have enjoyed our time, but I need more then what a friendship offers….so if that is not something you are interested in…then I think we need to go our separate ways.
It is a tough place when you really like someone…i tried a solid year and a half to be friends….but then he started dating someone else and I had to stop all contact. In hindsight…I really should have recognized my own needs would not be met and just parted ways.
|
|
kekko
New Member
Posts: 17
|
Post by kekko on Aug 4, 2021 13:07:16 GMT
Hey TNR9 Thank you so much for your response. Yeah, I read about this exact thought experiment and I wouldnt ever be okay with the theoretical situation that she would date someone else while being my "buddy". So this is a boundary I wont cross for sure.
The cuddles that are going on are on the verge to dry sex. And i can tell how aroused she is. It is super awkward.
|
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Aug 4, 2021 14:02:53 GMT
Hey TNR9 Thank you so much for your response. Yeah, I read about this exact thought experiment and I wouldnt ever be okay with the theoretical situation that she would date someone else while being my "buddy". So this is a boundary I wont cross for sure.
The cuddles that are going on are on the verge to dry sex. And i can tell how aroused she is. It is super awkward.
Yeh….I would definitely take some time with her to clarify things….because it is starting to sound like a friends with some benefits situation and that be can a real roller coaster with you emotions if you lean AP. It also may hinder you finding a partner who is more secure and open to the type of relationship you seek. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Aug 4, 2021 14:03:28 GMT
Hey TNR9 Thank you so much for your response. Yeah, I read about this exact thought experiment and I wouldnt ever be okay with the theoretical situation that she would date someone else while being my "buddy". So this is a boundary I wont cross for sure.
The cuddles that are going on are on the verge to dry sex. And i can tell how aroused she is. It is super awkward.
Yeh….I would definitely take some time with her to clarify things….because it is starting to sound like a friends with some benefits situation and that be can a real roller coaster with your emotions if you lean AP. It also may hinder you finding a partner who is more secure and open to the type of relationship you seek. |
|
|
|
Post by annieb on Aug 4, 2021 15:01:43 GMT
Ah, yes, the good ole friendzone. As tnr9 will tell you, you can’t be friends with someone you are interested in romantically or it will devastate you, when they do find someone they are interested in and rest assured they will find that person. I’ve also been on a situation similar, where I stayed in touch for something like eight years after a relationship ended, and while I physically wasn’t able to see him anymore (I moved overseas, and tbh he was probably a deciding factor in that 😂), I still kept in touch with him and it literally hindered my growth and my relationships.
So yeah, don’t be us (I am FA, but have also been DA and AP), make a clean cut and stop trying to figure out how to earn someone’s trust, when you have done very little to lose it.
The best thing we have all done is stop analyzing the avoidant and start analyzing ourselves, what wound are we trying to heal and what relationship from the past with a primary caregiver are we trying to fix if we stay and try to figure them out. What do we think we will get out of it, if they suddenly flip? Did we change them? Does that mean we change how our mom treats us, does it change who we are, does it validate our feelings?
Because for as long as we stay with the avoidant we are actually believe it or not projecting.
So first things first, break it off with her and say I’m sorry, but I cannot be friends with you.
Second take your own first entry of this thread and write out in a different color font what each situation you described meant to you and what you wanted the outcome to be and what it actually is and how does that make you feel vs, what would the fantasy outcome would be and how you think that would make you feel.
|
|
|
|
Post by annieb on Aug 4, 2021 15:23:06 GMT
Yes, I believe you are dissociating and validation seeking. It's a natural way to be for people with attachment trauma. We've absolutely 100% all have been there (every person on these boards). And it's great you are here, and you are so self aware already. You are not obliged to phrase it in any way other than, we can't be friends, I am sorry. She will most likely leave you alone. You are not responsible for how she will react, nor can you control it. That is an illusion.
|
|
kekko
New Member
Posts: 17
|
Post by kekko on Aug 4, 2021 15:39:56 GMT
Yes, I believe you are dissociating and validation seeking. It's a natural way to be for people with attachment trauma. We've absolutely 100% all have been there (every person on these boards). And it's great you are here, and you are so self aware already. You are not obliged to phrase it in any way other than, we can't be friends, I am sorry. She will most likely leave you alone. You are not responsible for how she will react, nor can you control it. That is an illusion.
Thank you so much for your kind words  seems like we are all coming from a similar place that leads us to this forum. It feels great to be united in something that normally makes you feel so isolated and disconnected. |
|
|
|
Post by blacksnow2 on Aug 4, 2021 20:21:54 GMT
So okay, she's obviously sabotaging and letting her fear control her. But some things I've learned from dealing with FA's (am FA myself), besides looking at myself in the mirror, is that 1) there's no point in 'reading their minds' or between the lines of their actions after you've pretty much figured them out and realized it's not about you, and 2) you do not state what your intentions/plans are because it pressures them to be 'expected' to do or be a part of something and they/we hate letting others down, and 3) to bring your focus back to your feelings and state them almost immediately + honestly + non-catastrophically.
This situation right now puts her in control and your needs on the backburner. It might feel like you are available and she's not, but you know very well you're not and it only feels that way because it's easier to see her issues. In all honesty, if she was the one asking what you're asking of her, you'd eventually run into your fears and shut down. You might have a higher threshold, but it's still there.
How to move forward? Tell her you need to step back from this because you're attracted to her sexually. And then do so without closing the door altogether.
A lot of people will tell you to end it and never look back. That doesn't really work for me because as it stands I'm not actually ready for a relationship even though I crave connection, so this is the advice I'll give you. Closing the door completely to someone I care about, even if they're unavailable, just makes me panic.
Lastly, there is something positive in all of this. FA's have developed all kinds of mechanisms to ensure they don't get betrayed, rejected, abandoned, etc. They don't have one set of mechanisms, but the entire range of it -- hence, disorganized. This means they respond to their triggers in unpredictable ways and have many "false selves" for dealing with it. I'd take the opportunity to notice those things in yourself and connect with your true/core self. Try interacting with the world and other people using that self. I think a healed FA (with another healed FA) can have the best relationship. Don't hope for her to follow your footsteps though. Do it for you. Lead by example, but don't take it personally if she doesn't join you.
|
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Aug 4, 2021 20:36:06 GMT
So okay, she's obviously sabotaging and letting her fear control her. But some things I've learned from dealing with FA's (am FA myself), besides looking at myself in the mirror, is that 1) there's no point in 'reading their minds' or between the lines of their actions after you've pretty much figured them out and realized it's not about you, and 2) you do not state what your intentions/plans are because it pressures them to be 'expected' to do or be a part of something and they/we hate letting others down, and 3) to bring your focus back to your feelings and state them almost immediately + honestly + non-catastrophically. This situation right now puts her in control and your needs on the backburner. It might feel like you are available and she's not, but you know very well you're not and it only feels that way because it's easier to see her issues. In all honesty, if she was the one asking what you're asking of her, you'd eventually run into your fears and shut down. You might have a higher threshold, but it's still there. How to move forward? Tell her you need to step back from this because you're attracted to her sexually. And then do so without closing the door altogether. A lot of people will tell you to end it and never look back. That doesn't really work for me because as it stands I'm not actually ready for a relationship even though I crave connection, so this is the advice I'll give you. Closing the door completely to someone I care about, even if they're unavailable, just makes me panic. Lastly, there is something positive in all of this. FA's have developed all kinds of mechanisms to ensure they don't get betrayed, rejected, abandoned, etc. They don't have one set of mechanisms, but the entire range of it -- hence, disorganized. This means they respond to their triggers in unpredictable ways and have many "false selves" for dealing with it. I'd take the opportunity to notice those things in yourself and connect with your true/core self. Try interacting with the world and other people using that self. I think a healed FA (with another healed FA) can have the best relationship. Don't hope for her to follow your footsteps though. Do it for you. Lead by example, but don't take it personally if she doesn't join you. That is so interesting blacksnow2 about not wanting to close the door completely because you are still in a process of healing. 🙂. If I don’t shut the door completely….then I tend to swirl in “possibilities” and “potential” which is my own way of avoiding accepting reality. I do enjoy learning about the other members in this community. |
|
|
|
Post by blacksnow2 on Aug 4, 2021 20:49:19 GMT
That is so interesting blacksnow2 about not wanting to close the door completely because you are still in a process of healing. 🙂. If I don’t shut the door completely….then I tend to swirl in “possibilities” and “potential” which is my own way of avoiding accepting reality. I do enjoy learning about the other members in this community. That's valid too. I can't say I don't swirl in possibilities and potential as well, but I like to correct this without an external marker. I find my will is stronger this way, as counterintuitive as it is. |
|
|
|
Post by krolle on Aug 5, 2021 17:53:27 GMT
Excellent analysis blacksnow!
I feel the same sense of panic when a door has the potential of completely closing. Often resulting in years of still being "emotionally" attached to someone who might have moved on long ago, married, and had kids.
It's even often the case that I was so miserable in the relationship/situation/job while it was going on. But as soon as there was a threat of it not being there any more I remember it/them as the best thing in the world, and either panic or become melancholic.
I think it must be an FA thing.
I find this to be a common theme in many areas of my life, not just my romantic relationships. Career, housing, living location.
Similarly I'm sure it's related to the fear of commitment which is common to us FA's too.
|
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Aug 5, 2021 18:51:47 GMT
I think it must be an FA thing. I find this to be a common theme in many areas of my life, not just my romantic relationships. Don't hog all the credit, APs are excellent at doing this too 🤣 |
|
|
|
Post by krolle on Aug 5, 2021 19:49:11 GMT
I think it must be an FA thing. I find this to be a common theme in many areas of my life, not just my romantic relationships. Don't hog all the credit, APs are excellent at doing this too 🤣 Touche Alexandra. You'd know more than me as Im not true AP, so perhaps I'm off with my assumption. But My experience of AP's in this situation is that they have very long tolerances to suffer through poor relationships, jobs, friendships, out of fear. But once they're done, they're often firmly done, because it took a lot to push them to overcome that fear to say "I'm done". This is especially compounded if there's a new source of affection or validation in the scene. Whereas with FA's even if there is another source of affection/opportunity,job, friendship etc, the FA will be very preoccupied that the grass was certainly greener before and often be unhappy with their new choice, even if the original was horrible in real time and the new one is actually a pretty good fit. A generalization of course. But would you say it agrees with your experience or no? |
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Aug 5, 2021 20:20:40 GMT
krolle If they're in a new and better situation AND they really, really did get over the prior one, yes. But more often it was what I'll call a forced dump situation (yes, even if it was something like leaving a bad job lol). It's not a grass is always greener thing, it's more of a, "I wonder if anything changed and how it's doing and if it would magically improve now" (because remember, APs blame themselves for things not working right so "fixing" a previously bad situation feels validating)... or the AP has mostly moved on but still fundamentally feels inside like the shoe can drop at any time in life and is unsettled rather than happy so projects back into the past or daydreaming future to avoid being present. Even if they don't dwell there, they'll still reach back and wonder from time to time, which may or may not be accompanied by longing. Moving on usually feels like a failure to an AP, and that they weren't good enough to fix whatever it was. It's very hard to see moving on as empowering when caught up in those patterns. And since they're unhappy with themselves, they often feel skeptical or even bored (feelings that may accompany something unfamiliar and non-anxiety-triggering) of genuinely good situations they may have moved into, and then their level of insecurity (since it's a spectrum) will decide if they end up sabotaging or dwelling on the past or yearning for something else or not. None of it is conscious, of course.
|
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Aug 5, 2021 20:24:21 GMT
I'll add that an exception to this is when an AP leaves an ex for someone more avoidant. Then they'll go full speed into the new sparks, chemistry, and longing of that anxious-avoidant trap waiting to happen, and their major romantic attachment figure will shift focus to be a new unsatisfying obsession and trying to prove themselves and finally be good enough.
|
|
seems like we are all coming from a similar place that leads us to this forum. It feels great to be united in something that normally makes you feel so isolated and disconnected.