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Post by annieb on Aug 10, 2021 14:29:50 GMT
I think that’s why I prefaced it with “as a woman”, because I would feel insulted if someone would want to have sex with me regularly, but not define the relationship, but “see where it goes” after a year of dating . This might be a very personal and antiquated view, so maybe I should have prefaced it as just myself - I would be insulted, but that’s how it would make me feel.
But as a good ole FA, if someone was expecting me to show up in an “authentic way” after a year of dating, to see where it goes, I would feel confused and manipulated. As they are basically saying I need to change. And we all know how that makes everyone feel. Change is only possible from within and from outside it feels like expectations we can’t fulfill at best and control at worst.
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 10, 2021 15:32:43 GMT
I think that’s why I prefaced it with “as a woman”, because I would feel insulted if someone would want to have sex with me regularly, but not define the relationship, but “see where it goes” after a year of dating . This might be a very personal and antiquated view, so maybe I should have prefaced it as just myself - I would be insulted, but that’s how it would make me feel. But as a good ole FA, if someone was expecting me to show up in an “authentic way” after a year of dating, to see where it goes, I would feel confused and manipulated. As they are basically saying I need to change. And we all know how that makes everyone feel. Change is only possible from within and from outside it feels like expectations we can’t fulfill at best and control at worst. I agree….I would not be looking for a friends with benefits situation after dating someone to see where things go. At times when B and I were hanging out and he would get a bit touchy…it was very confusing to me….and I felt like a placeholder. |
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Post by krolle on Aug 10, 2021 19:30:46 GMT
I had no intention of judging your perceptions or invalidating the way you feel. I Just wished to understand, with compassion, where the 'insult' came from.
My interpretation of Kekko's interaction so far is that there is an obvious insecure FA dance going on.
But overall I'd say I'v been fairly impressed with his insight and desire to communicate his needs honestly and respectfully to his person.
Im not saying your view is wrong, only that I find it hard to see the insult as long as he communicates to the best of his knowledge, to his partner, with honesty what he wanted, what he was unsure of, and what he could offer, and in turn respect her right to refuse it.
Is it insulting to be sexually attracted to someone, but unsure if they are a good fit for you long term? As long as your honest about your doubts and desires, that's what I'm unsure of.
Please be aware the tone in my head,as I write this is one of genuine curiosity and respect, not hostility.
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Post by annieb on Aug 10, 2021 21:07:53 GMT
For me yes - if I am sexually attracted to someone and having sex with them regularly for a year, but can't quite get there emotionally and be willing to be a couple and in a relationship, I would feel like I am using that person. And if someone wasn't sure about a relationship with me, but were more than comfortable to have sex with me anyway, I would feel used and confused.
I am impressed with OPs insight as well. But I think in his case, he is almost too well researched. As in he is basically using his partner's case to obscure his own issues. If that makes any sense. He is protecting himself, by making it "her" problem. He is distancing and justifying it by her FA issues. Projecting and mirroring.
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Post by krolle on Aug 10, 2021 22:43:39 GMT
Ah. My bad. I didn't read his original story through well enough. I thought this was a relatively new relationship.
Though I stand by my point that it's fairly common a couple might have a sexual relationship for a certain amount of time and still be unsure if they are the right fit for an LTR. And My opinion is still of the point that I would only feel the insult if I was lied to a bout their intentions in said interaction.
Though I agree this certainly has an arbitrary time limitation before it becomes problematic.
As for your second paragraph, I'm not quiet as well versed in interpersonal dynamics yet to agree or disagree. But I acquiesce to your evaluation, as I have valued your input on numerous other posts.
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Post by krolle on Aug 10, 2021 22:47:14 GMT
....Though I will say that does correlate with my own experience of having partners with BPD. Where I became obsessed with working out their problems in the relationship and ignored my own issues for a long time.
I'd like to think my perspective is more balanced these days.
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Post by krolle on Aug 10, 2021 22:57:38 GMT
This topic also activates a lot of shame in me.
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 11, 2021 3:03:30 GMT
This topic also activates a lot of shame in me. Sending a virtual, but not engulfing hug. I am sorry this topic has activated the feeling of shame in you. |
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kekko
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Post by kekko on Aug 11, 2021 13:00:16 GMT
For me yes - if I am sexually attracted to someone and having sex with them regularly for a year, but can't quite get there emotionally and be willing to be a couple and in a relationship, I would feel like I am using that person. And if someone wasn't sure about a relationship with me, but were more than comfortable to have sex with me anyway, I would feel used and confused. I am impressed with OPs insight as well. But I think in his case, he is almost too well researched. As in he is basically using his partner's case to obscure his own issues. If that makes any sense. He is protecting himself, by making it "her" problem. He is distancing and justifying it by her FA issues. Projecting and mirroring.
Something about the way you framed the obvious here really sticked with me.
I am indeed obscuring my own issues by overanalyzing her. Thank you a lot  This kicked a domino |
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Post by annieb on Aug 11, 2021 13:23:14 GMT
This topic also activates a lot of shame in me. The fact that you were able to articulate that word as identify that feeling. It took me two years of therapy to get there 😅. I say fantastic work. |
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Post by annieb on Aug 11, 2021 13:29:45 GMT
For me yes - if I am sexually attracted to someone and having sex with them regularly for a year, but can't quite get there emotionally and be willing to be a couple and in a relationship, I would feel like I am using that person. And if someone wasn't sure about a relationship with me, but were more than comfortable to have sex with me anyway, I would feel used and confused. I am impressed with OPs insight as well. But I think in his case, he is almost too well researched. As in he is basically using his partner's case to obscure his own issues. If that makes any sense. He is protecting himself, by making it "her" problem. He is distancing and justifying it by her FA issues. Projecting and mirroring.
Something about the way you framed the obvious here really sticked with me.
I am indeed obscuring my own issues by overanalyzing her. Thank you a lot This kicked a domino Awesome! Like I said we had all been there writing bullet points about their behavior, when it was always about us. ❤️ |
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kekko
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Post by kekko on Aug 18, 2021 13:49:08 GMT
Found this and felt a desire to drop it here:
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Post by annieb on Aug 18, 2021 14:05:15 GMT
Oh boy 😅. This sounds like a seminar right up our alley…
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 18, 2021 14:22:13 GMT
The primal panic resonates so much with me…..at one point in therapy I had an image of B as a velveteen rabbit…..the one cherished stuffed animal from childhood and this feeling that he belonged to me and I was so afraid of him being taken away.
Also…I completely get his message and agree with it…but new people who haven’t done any internal work might interpret his tough love approach as another form of….there is something wrong with you because you can’t stop dwelling, analyzing, visualizing and obsessing over your ex….which leads back down the rabbit hole of shame.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 18, 2021 18:49:10 GMT
The first screenshot is basically true in my experience! The only time I've had success helping steer people to attachment theory in a way that turned out to be meaningful for them was when they came to me. This was never exes, only friends. And they weren't always ready to hear the answer when they asked me, but when they WERE, they'd follow up by asking for resources and take it from there. One asked me 3 or 4 times over the years, kept ignoring it and forgetting about it (I wouldn't bring it up again if he didn't), then the last time he asked me he was actually ready to hear it and ran with it and started really addressing it. He is/was DA, now he's very aware, worked on it, and in a relationship that's the most stable I've ever seen for him.
I've mentioned this story before, but I did try approaching one ex one time in the middle of an in person conversation already covering some sensitive topics with, "hey, I can finally verbalize what was going on that confusing time I was quietly having an anxiety attack, here is what it was. It doesn't happen anymore because I started working on my AP attachment issues. If you've never heard of FA, it's worth looking into." That's it, didn't say, "you are FA and here are resources." And I really waited until that point to say anything because earlier it would have been me trying to change him. By then it was because I felt terribly for him that he slams his head against the wall over and over and is unhappy in life but couldn't figure out why. At that point, I wasn't tied to or hurt by any outcome. Anyway, it was a complete failure, he got defensive, said he doesn't know what FA is but knows what AP is and identifies with that only (he's textbook avoidant, so that was interesting), didn't want to further talk about it (so we didn't), and if he ever did look into it (which he actually may have later based on something he said after), he didn't think it was anything to ever take action about and dismissed. We never discussed it again because, why would we? But understanding FA when I started obsessing about it a year and a half earlier did help me wrap my head around the rest of attachment theory for myself!
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This kicked a domino