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Post by Kl on Oct 14, 2016 21:40:00 GMT
DH or Steve,
Hi! It feels refreshing to hear from avoidants, ya'll actually sound human(jk!). I have a few questions and am feeling hurt right now over my avoidant bf of 7mos. getting completely stressed and overwhelmed when I told him I needed to see him more, not every day, but twice a week instead of once would be nice. I told him maybe we wanted different things, at which point he thought I was breaking up and said "Shouldn't we be having this conversation in person?" I said there wasn't anyone, I loved him, but just needed to feel his masculine presence more. Prior to this he was planning our date, which is why it came up, because I realized we wouldn't get to see each other that week, due to our schedules. After that, he completely withdrew. Two days later(first time he didn't call or text daily) got text saying he's just been dealing with crap, he hopes the kids and I are ok. I texted back, we were fine, felt happy to see his text, and sorry he was dealing with crap but I knew him and knew he would figure things out. He texted back he just hasn't felt well. I didn't text back, felt he needed space. When I ran into him the next day at Starbucks he looked stressed and completely emotionless. Said he had a lot going on, I had my kids, and he just couldn't give me time I needed. I told him I loved him, didn't like feeling so disconnected from him, told him I respected him and didn't want to put pressure on him, so agreed we should take a break, but that I needed to keep my options open, if I couldn't see person I was in exclusive r/s with.
He hugged me and said we'd talk more, I knew by how taxing and uncomfortable this was for him, we wouldn't. I feel sad. He still likes my Facebook posts, but hasn't reached out in a month. If we had any bad memories, it would be easier to move on. He was my "Gentleman" and my "Superman". Doesn't he miss the admiration and respect and companionship? He treated me great. If I had known he was avoidant (didn't even know what that was), I would have been more patient.
It scares me that you didn't miss any of your exes, DH. Do you think he will ever come back? I don't want to reach out cause he'll just perceive it as pressure. Is there anything I can do to get him back? Would anything have worked for ya'll?
Thanks so much for y'all's honesty!!
Kristy
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Post by Kl on Oct 14, 2016 21:50:14 GMT
DH and Steve,
I just wanted to add one other thing. I did mention the night I asked if we could see each other twice a week instead of once, I did feel like sometimes he was emotionally unavailable, but I said it in a kind way. Do you think he felt shamed or like I found him out? Or do you think he just got overwhelmed emotionally? I do know he really cared for me, but felt like he went into some type of fear or survival mode.
Thanks again!
Kristy
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Post by Mary on Oct 15, 2016 0:06:28 GMT
Kristy, your story sounds familiar except I am on the other side as the avoidant. My current partner has been the only one to "get me back" in my long history of dating. When I retreat or lash out, he gives me space, but then the assurance that I can come back whenever I want. He basically says, I know you don't want to talk to me right now, but when you are ready, I'm here and I'm not going anywhere. I will wait for you. He doesn't get mad, and doesn't push. It has made a world of difference for me. He says he sees this issue as just a small part of me and he accepts it.
It sounds like your ex has left the door open, but I think you saying that you will see other people may have shut the door a bit more. I don't blame you for saying or doing it, I'm just saying how I would see it. It takes an over the top amount of patience and time to get an avoidant to trust you. It's all baby steps and sometimes you can never get there. Hopefully things work out for the best.
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Post by trixie5179 on Oct 15, 2016 1:17:58 GMT
Mary,
When you say "get me back," is that referring to after you broke up with someone, or told them you needed space? Just wondering, because in my case my ex avoidant broke up with me but said "if I could change you would be The One." ... He was very definite, so I took him at his word. In your case, did you always want people to come back for you? Sometimes I think about contacting my ex, but I don't want to if it'll just bother him...
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Post by Kl on Oct 15, 2016 7:27:31 GMT
Mary,
Thanks so much for your response. I thought the same thing and wish I had not said I was going to keep my options open, but felt like if he knew I was just going to wait around for him he wouldn't be worried about losing me, and guys like what they have to work for, according to my counselor who is a relationship expert. We were breaking up, so not just like needed space in a marriage but still together. Also, how do you stay high value and respected if you just wait around while they withdraw? If he would call, I would be warm and open, and not have any heavy talks, but he's not calling. He always took the lead in our r/s and was the initiator. Do you think it's different for avoidant men? Had I not run into him at Starbuck's, I wonder if he would have called again. What's strange is he told my friend, who is dating his roommate, tell Kristy I said hi, he likes my Facebook posts, is this just his way of saying no hard feelings? I just don't understand how he can't miss me. I truly admired and respected him, complimented him sincerely, which I know he loved, always told him how much I appreciated the things he did for me. He told me how he felt blessed to have me, liked the way I was always happy, etc. He did tell me once, when I asked why he never got remarried and did he like being alone, that "No one wants to be alone". A month before we broke up, he told me we wanted the same thing, a r/s that is moving forward, but he was always " exhausted" at the end of the day, and so rigid with his schedule, but usually Saturday's were our date nights, and every now and then I'd see him briefly an extra day a week for dinner or Bfast, but short visits. Never anything spontaneous, like "Hey lets go to the beach" (we live in Santa Barbara).
Does withdrawing make you lose all feelings you had for someone? Do the feelings come back?
Thanks again,
Kristy
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Post by Kl on Oct 15, 2016 9:38:15 GMT
Mary,
A few more questions, (Sorry, but I've learned way more from avoidants, then the literature that is out there). Do you feel like you will stay with current partner, or do you feel like you could up and leave for good at any time? Did you ever miss your exes afterward? Are you really capable of just turning emotions on/off at will?
Thanks,
Kristy
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katy
Sticky Post Powers
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Post by katy on Oct 15, 2016 12:52:46 GMT
Kristi,
Your posts were interesting. I'm curious. Where did you find a group of avoidants who were willing to be interviewed? My experience is limited but I saw great kindness and good spirit for about six months from an avoidant. Then, I saw an apparently regretful rejection based on his "being too busy". I had a supposed friendship with the avoidant whom I knew and we were working on a writing project. When he announced that he was busy and I tried to negotiate with him to develop a plan so that we could complete our writing project, then the claws came out and he became very hostile and shunning. Maybe he was sitting around secretly regretting how he was acting, but his behavior makes that seem pretty unlikely.
I've been married twice - for the first time to a very avoidant man for only two years - it was hell on earth. I've been married to a non-avoidant man for 24 years who is dependable and willing to negotiate our differences.
It's obvious from the posts of this forum that many people are broken-hearted when an avoidant suddenly walks away. But, there are also some posts from people who are married to avoidants. If you read those posts, you can see that most avoidants are very difficult to be married to. You mentioned a trait of your avoidant boyfriend which, in my opinion, makes for a very difficult marriage: a very rigid schedule.
In my opinion, too much happens in daily life that is unexpected that somebody who is always parsing out how much time and attention that they are willing provide to you is going to be a very frustrating to deal with. There have been hundreds examples of things happening to me and my husband in 24 years, but here's just one example of my current husband's kind-hearted flexibility.
We live in the country with horses in our neighbor's yard. One day our dog came in the house with a large, deep cut - she had gone to see her friends the neighbor's horses and that day, for whatever reason, one of the horses kicked her. Suddenly that Saturday was totally rearranged - we dropped everything to rush to the emergency vet where Colleen had the wound sutured. When we brought her home, she could barely walk and we had to help her in and out of the house. That night we had concert tickets but I was worried about leaving the dog alone when she was so badly injured. My husband was very gracious and never said a word about his disappointment at not going to the concert.
My first husband, an avoidant who was very rigid about how much time and attention he would share with other people, would have been a total jerk about the whole experience with the dog being hurt. He would have been ungracious about bestirring himself to take her to the vet, then he would have been difficult about the help that she needed when we got home, and finally he would have been very difficult because he wanted to go to the concert and the dog's problems and my concerns would have been much less important to him than what he wanted.
So, as sad and disappointing as it seems for an avoidant to leave you, please be careful what you wish for, because you may get it.
Katy
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Post by Mary on Oct 15, 2016 17:09:08 GMT
Trixie, Yes, I broke up with my current partner about 3 times, but they were all in the first 8 to 9 months of the relationship. I was also very definite and hurtful every time I did it. I never "want" people to come back to me and it's not even a possibility in my head when I break up. I tell people I never go back and it has been true up to my current partner. For some reason, we have a connection that is difficult to break. He's the first that I have missed after the breakups and I don't really know why. He has been the first that I have actually grown attached to.
Kl,
"guys like what they have to work for" - I don't know if this is true for all people and I'm not sure it's guy specific. Behind the avoidant "mask" is debilitating fear of rejection. However I don't feel the fear, I only get "triggered". I sense rejection subconsciously and I run for the hills. I often don't even know what's making me run. It's just an automatic response. It's my guess that most avoidants don't have the ability to see the value in working for it. If it's to hard to attain, it will be too hard to sustain.
" how do you stay high value and respected if you just wait around while they withdraw?" - I don't know. I will have to ask my partner for you. He may have some insight. We have talked about my avoidance at length and he knows my history. He says he does it because he loves me and he understands (to the extent anyone really can) that I have different needs. He has said that in the end it's worth it because of the relationship that we have every day. The avoidance part (for me) is not an every day thing. It rears it's ugly head every couple months and the in between times are fantastic.
" Do you think it's different for avoidant men?" - I think it's different for every person. I am not a believer in guy versus girl.
" is this just his way of saying no hard feelings?" - I think he's leaving the door open for communication. If I am completely done with a person, I will have no contact whatsoever with that person. If I ran into them, I would be cordial, but would not seek them out on social media.
"Does withdrawing make you lose all feelings you had for someone? Do the feelings come back?" - When I withdraw, I have a severe dislike for the person and the only thing I think about is getting away and how that person isn't right for me. With most people, the dislike goes away, but the feelings don't come back and I have no desire to get back together. It's been different with my current partner. He has somehow broken through the wall, but he's very methodical. Things I thought he did by accident, he thought out and did on purpose. He showed me that he is completely reliable and safe with very small things in the beginning and then bigger over time. For example, Ever since I have known him, he would send me the very same goodnight text every night. I thought it was just something he did, but it came up in conversation once and he said he did it on purpose cause he knows I need predictability and stability. He knows he's the calm to my storm and it has worked. On the outside, I think avoidants seem very cool and collected most of the time, but it's an internal storm that most people don't see. The only part most people see is the "eruption" which can be withdrawal or lashing out. It seems so out of the blue to outsiders, but it's been inside the avoidant the whole time. I hope this all makes sense. It's hard to explain.
Katy, I'm sorry for your experiences with avoidants. I think it can be very frustrating and difficult, but not all avoidants are the same. I have had emergencies and am able to be very flexible in those cases. Yes, I am very difficult to get close to, but I do find other people's problems important and am always willing to help. I think that narcissism can accompany avoidants, but it's not always the case. When a person is avoidant and narcissistic, it can be an impossible combination. I was with an anxious narcissist for quite some time in my past and it was quite similar to what you describe.
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Post by Kl on Oct 16, 2016 4:25:16 GMT
Mary,
I really appreciate your openness and honesty. I'm amazed at how well you know yourself. Did you always know you were avoidant? Did you ever get tired of shallow relationships?
Thank you for taking time to answer my questions. It is so much more helpful to hear from someone firsthand what is going through his or her mind. The literature out there is so negative and most of it the same thing without any real substance as to what avoidants are going through on the inside. You also appear to have found someone very special who truly loves you unconditionally. It's fascinating how he seems to know the right things to say and do. I'd love to hear more.
Katy: Thank you for your insight and sharing your experiences. It helps to keep me grounded. I found avoidants by going to places like this, and when someone would admit they were avoidant, I would write to them. I haven't interviewed any, just wrote and asked questions. I am very curious about this, because I have never experienced this kind of withdrawal before and didn't know what avoidant attachment even was until I started trying to find answers and make sense of it. I don't know why, but it is therapeutic for me to try to see the other person's viewpoint and understand why they do what they do.
All the avoidants ( there's only been a few) were very helpful and willing to try and help me understand their struggles. It makes me wonder why everyone says they don't want help. Mary has been the most helpful, but I didn't keep writing to the others, I just thanked them. I don't know if it's healing, seeking closure, or just trying to understand why my ex did what he did. I do get it now. I'm not angry. I am still sad sometimes, but over all it has been helpful for me.
Kristy
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Post by Mary on Oct 16, 2016 4:28:22 GMT
Kristy, I'm back to answer your other questions.
"Do you feel like you will stay with current partner, or do you feel like you could up and leave for good at any time?"
This is a tough question. There are a lot of times when I think I will stay with him and some days, I am sure of it. But there are still times when I think about breaking up. I take it day by day. In the beginning, I though about breaking up a lot, but it has gotten less over time. We joke about it that now I only think about breaking up 80% of the time, but it can change with the day.
"Did you ever miss your exes afterward?" - He's the only one that I missed after we broke up. It's one of the reasons we stayed together. Other exes I didn't miss after and it was easy to walk away.
"Are you really capable of just turning emotions on/off at will?" - I don't think I feel emotions like other people or they present themselves in different ways possibly. I am extremely logical, so yes, I can turn off emotions through logic. Emotions, to me, are not logical. If I don't think someone is good for me, I can stop liking them because it's not logical to like them. I don't understand why people say, this person is no good for me, but I can't stop loving them. However, I think some of it has to do with the fact that emotions are not readily accessible anyway, so maybe it's more that that than turning them on or off.
" how do you stay high value and respected if you just wait around while they withdraw?" - So I was talking this over with my partner and he said he never saw our breakups as real breakups. He saw them as normal fights. He said he didn't know if I would come back but he wanted to let me know that he would be there if I wanted to. The more I thought about it, the more I am sure that the fact that he let me know made him more valuable to me. A big reason that I am avoidant is that I didn't have stable guardians ever. As a young child, everyone I became attached to was ripped away and it occurred several times. The fact that he stays around (in a no pressure way) despite my pushing away is why I am able to develop a more stable attachment to him.
I hope this explains some things and feel free to ask away. I think the questions help me to learn as well, so I thank you for that.
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Post by Bianca on Oct 16, 2016 6:54:38 GMT
Wow...just wow OK...umm Hahaha  ) It's funny that finally I got all of my answers. I know why I'm acting like that since childhood. All of my friends and family members told me that I have a phone for nonsense because I don't text or call sometimes at all back haha. I just ignore it until later and later. But I absolutely hate when someone does this to me. Actually Avoidant is almost the perfect description of myself. Helped me many times in life but not when it comes to relationships. I don't think I'll be married with kids some day. I just refuse this idea, I love my independence and freedom too much. It's funny that I took a random test on playbuzz and the result really made me laugh and intrigued. Why? Because it'd true but I don't want to face this. "Just f**k it" I'm happy that I'm not the only one. Hi to all Avoidants  |
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Post by trixie5179 on Oct 16, 2016 14:43:23 GMT
Hi Mary,
So, if an avoidant ends a relationship due to feeling emotionally overwhelmed/exhausted, does a fear of rejection have something to do with that? Or are they two different things?
Thank you for being so honest about all this. It is very helpful!
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Post by Mary on Oct 16, 2016 16:20:07 GMT
Kristy, I didn't always know I was avoidant. It took me a very long time to figure it out and then to figure out why. Therapy did help figure some things out and now my current relationship has helped me figure out the rest. I started to think about it because I have ended every single dating relationship in my life and thought it was unusual that I had never been broken up with. It was obviously me and I wanted to know why. I can't say I got tired of shallow relationships. I didn't know any better. When I was in my 20s, it was normal to date around, because everyone else was doing it. I started to think about it in my 30s as to why every relationship failed and it was me that wanted out every single time.
I'm glad I can give some insight, because a lot of people are very negative about avoidants and I do get why, but my hope is that other avoidants can see that a relationship is possible and become more self aware. I think that some are tired of the cycle and are searching for answers.
Trixie, Yes, I think that fear of rejection is definitely a big part of it. I fear closeness, because closeness equals pain. If I get close, they will either reject me or get torn away. The problem is I never feel fear, it's just an automatic response. My therapist kept telling me it was fear, but I kept telling her that I don't see or feel fear. I only felt bored or irritated or smothered or tired or drained. I don't know why it presents that way. Even now that I can logically think it through, I can't change the automatic response and I still don't feel fear. My behavior is the same, I can only recognize it after the fact and try to fix the damage that was done.
Hi Bianca, Glad you got some answers. It's not an easy journey, but you're definitely not the only one.
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raco
Junior Member
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Post by raco on Oct 16, 2016 18:28:23 GMT
All the avoidants ( there's only been a few) were very helpful and willing to try and help me understand their struggles. It makes me wonder why everyone says they don't want help. Because usually, people interact with an avoidant person within an actual relationship, not on a web forum with people they don't know and with whom they have zero intimacy. You tried both, I think you can tell the difference. I bet your ex didn't want help and explained nothing to you. |
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katy
Sticky Post Powers
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Post by katy on Oct 16, 2016 22:23:01 GMT
Mary,
Thanks for all of your excellent information. Your explanations have really helped me to understand what was going on with my avoidant first husband and avoidant friend/writing partner. Many years ago when I was married to my first husband, I knew so little. As I look back, I now understand why, during our very short marriage, he never unpacked his possessions, lived out of his suitcase, and literally kept his toothbrush in his travel kit. What he couldn't say in words, he was telling me very clearly in his actions.
Thanks again for your help,
Katy
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Kristy,
My impression is that most of the people who have participated in this forum, who were abandoned by an avoidant, probably have some touch of anxiety in our personalities. I also think that most people who participate in the forum, at least at first, have a fervent wish that the avoidant would somehow come around and return to the charming person that they were at the beginning of the relationship. I think that as people read more, and really begin to understand themselves and the avoidants whom they dealt with, they begin to understand that a long-term relationship probably isn't going to happen and would not last long if things did get started again.
It would be wonderful to imagine that your avoidant secretly still loved you, but it doesn't really seem to be what we have heard. Mary talked about normally feeling as though the anxious person was stalking her if they reached out and tried to contact her. That seems to be the general report that most people have provided if they did try to reach out to their avoidant.
I think Raco is probably correct. It sounds great in theory to think that avoidants really still love the person whom they have abandoned, but it doesn't seem to be reality. The one thing that I do think is probably true is that the avoidant probably abandoned you because you triggered in them some kind of fear of closeness. So the closeness probably did exist, but now it doesn't. I think this is the absolutely hardest thing to accept about this kind of abandonment - there probably was a closeness and it is so distressing that there seems to be no logical reason why it has ended, normally with no logical explanation about what actually happened.
All of this is very difficult to absorb and to understand.
Best wishes,
Katy
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