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Post by alexandra on Apr 3, 2022 6:12:21 GMT
cherrycola, this is quite true. You need to meet some big east coast city Americans ha ha.
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rykus9
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Post by rykus9 on Apr 3, 2022 13:30:47 GMT
I live on the west coast of BC. People here tend to be quite closed off. Me too cherrycola. Beautiful area. I always go pretty surface to questions like how are you etc. But try to add flair to trigger people or see where there at using excellent or fabulous instead of alright or good either people disengage if they're shut down or it opens them up if they're neutral or feeling good. Another thing I learned really young that helped me a lot is people are generally in love with themselves. Remember their name then ask leading questions that let them know your listening but also give them lead to talk about themselves/their interests will have someone remember really liking you without actually knowing anything about you. Most people prefer to do a back and forth and are often thinking about themselves and what they're going to say while the other talks, often trying to get over 50% of the conversation to lead back to themselves and their experiences. So changing that dynamic to the listning and leading with questions is usually very well received by all but the most evasive people, and it gives me relief not to have to open up if I choose not to. |
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Post by cherrycola on Apr 3, 2022 17:42:08 GMT
I live on the west coast of BC. People here tend to be quite closed off. Me too cherrycola. Beautiful area. I always go pretty surface to questions like how are you etc. But try to add flair to trigger people or see where there at using excellent or fabulous instead of alright or good either people disengage if they're shut down or it opens them up if they're neutral or feeling good. Another thing I learned really young that helped me a lot is people are generally in love with themselves. Remember their name then ask leading questions that let them know your listening but also give them lead to talk about themselves/their interests will have someone remember really liking you without actually knowing anything about you. Most people prefer to do a back and forth and are often thinking about themselves and what they're going to say while the other talks, often trying to get over 50% of the conversation to lead back to themselves and their experiences. So changing that dynamic to the listning and leading with questions is usually very well received by all but the most evasive people, and it gives me relief not to have to open up if I choose not to. I love adding the flair, you sound like my type of person! By nature I am a super inquisitive curious person, but not great at phrasing things sometimes. A few people in my life did not respond well to this, getting mad at most questions and made me feel bad for being curious. As a result I actually stopped asking others questions feeling instrusive, and just assumed if they wanted me to know they would share. It was actually through dating and working on myself, I've learned that most people simply want the social permission to share, and just expressing curiousity they will open up. Even if you phrase the question badly they won't just assume bad intent. So now I'm having to relearn asking questions. The how are you question is easier for me now. It's getting easier to judge my audience and I view it as more of a what have you been up to type thing. So when appropriate I'll share something small I've been doing. I think part of my problem stemmed from being a massive oversharer and not understanding that there are layers to sharing. The other part of it was my general distaste for fake social conventions. Like the "let's grab coffee sometime" that is actually a blow off and means never. I am starting to have some evidence that I'm not as socially weird or awkward as I think and that my anxiety over it is now making things awkward, rather then my social misunderstandings. Though I do know I can come across very bluntly at times so I'm working on how to soften my delivery. |
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rykus9
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Post by rykus9 on Apr 3, 2022 18:19:22 GMT
I am exactly your type of person,just more avoidant lol!
went through a lot of the same things but changing schools a lot in elementary taught me to pick up social ques better. I am on the spectrum I'm pretty sure and mostly Dismisive so it was a learning curve for me too.
Definitely my experience is people want light and positive for the most part. Especially if they can express themselves or it is an opening to shine a light on something they're talented at or knowledgeable about.
That's where I learned the leading questions thing.. I just kind of say back key points like a question or repeat a sentence like I'm really taking it in and it makes them go even further into detail because instead of trying to shift from a shallow surface I am opening it for them to get deeper in. They relax and feel heard and as long as I just keep them going without trying to impose my ideas into their passions that is a no go in my experience.
As a Dismisive in relationships it can get me in trouble because people say I change but really I am just being more present and having boundaries/opinions. It is a good practice though especially if you find you try to help people. I use to do that and it really would infuriate some people. Most of them just want to be heard and have their thoughts confirmed/validated not hear options for growth/change or any challenge of their views.
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Post by alexandra on Apr 3, 2022 19:18:35 GMT
Definitely my experience is people want light and positive for the most part. Again, I'm putting it out there that this is definitely true where you both live, but it is also still cultural. You can adapt tips and tricks to handle it, but if you ever decide to leave and try another place or meet someone with a different background who moved there from elsewhere, it may be quite different! I've lived multiple places, and one area is close enough to where you are that the culture is the same type of light and "positive" and intensely closed off, and it honestly drove me crazy lol. It was almost people being neurotic about seeming laid back and positive because they couldn't process conflict and engaged in "magical thinking" instead. |
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Post by cherrycola on Apr 3, 2022 21:46:52 GMT
Definitely my experience is people want light and positive for the most part. Again, I'm putting it out there that this is definitely true where you both live, but it is also still cultural. You can adapt tips and tricks to handle it, but if you ever decide to leave and try another place or meet someone with a different background who moved there from elsewhere, it may be quite different! I've lived multiple places, and one area is close enough to where you are that the culture is the same type of light and "positive" and intensely closed off, and it honestly drove me crazy lol. It was almost people being neurotic about seeming laid back and positive because they couldn't process conflict and engaged in "magical thinking" instead. Oh completely, it's this area. There is a joke that goes around that if someone already has two friends they aren't looking for more. I lived in a smaller town in my 20s and everyone was so warm and caring. It was so easy to make friends and be accepted into a friend group. Moving back here in my 30s and struggling to make friends and then struggling to date was really a blow to my self esteem. |
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Post by cherrycola on Apr 8, 2022 2:08:20 GMT
Turns out Mr. Alberta(long distance) is ADHD! I have a funny way of attracting neuro-divergent into my life.
Part of me is worrying there isn't a romantic connection? He called me sweetheart and I felt the "ick", it was repulsive and I can't figure out why.
But maybe because there has been almost NO flirting, and he has kept the chat 100% PG, which I greatly appreciate but feels odd.
He brought up chatting on the phone, he also asked me out on a date for mid-may, said he'll be coming to my city, so I agreed. It felt like he ramped up the texting after that, to the point where I felt the need to pull away a bit. I may communicate I need some time away from screens and take an evening for myself. I had a pet die over the weekend and expressed some sadness, he met me with his own vulnerability about a pet dying and it felt nice. Trying really hard to not spin out in any one direction here.
Mr. Situationship continues to push some of my boundaries and I continue to hold them. I felt his energy shift, and while my first response was omg I am too much for him and chased him away, I corrected that thought. It is really hard to not want to chase him, and tell myself oh you just need to try harder but I am determined to just match his energy.
Feeling disappointed that he STILL sucks me in with his enthusiasm and empty words that he wants to see me, but I am finding it easier to find amusement in how... predictable he is.
Splitting and seeing people as black and white have been huge issues for me in the past, but I am just seeing him as a flawed human now. I think I also see the consistencies in his inconsistencies and know this isn't about me at all, he is just who he is.
Haven't heard from Mr. AP. With him it is harder. I am feeling so confused over what happened between us, and really want to just talk to him about it. At the same time I keep making myself small because I know what being depressed and grieving is like. I recognize I am acting from a very insecure place. Sent him a comic to test the waters. Waited three days. Another. And then my AP brain was spinning trying to figure out the "perfect" thing to say to get him to come back. I am just frozen right now. I do not want to relate to him while I am feeling this reactive over, but I don't know how to calm down. It's only been a little over a week which is like no time at all. So I am just learning to sit with this uncomfortable feeling and focusing on my own damn life.
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rykus9
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Post by rykus9 on Apr 8, 2022 6:33:31 GMT
Sending my thoughts and support!
I was horrible at online dating the one time I tried it, honestly it was a wierd experience for me.
Do you think it's a physical thing that makes you feel a negative response from the sweetheart comment or just the change from PG to an almost presumptuous pet name?
Is there an attractive feeling in the uneasiness or uncertainty of a more dismissive relationship?
It was funny for me because in real life I am fairly confident and enjoy banter so I naturally make connections and think that I tend to attract interesting and talented people (although usually a bit crazy) where as online dating I am apparently not a very high value person lol. I attracted almost no one!
Your post had me thinking though because that was the one time dating where I got super anxious. I couldn't understand how all of a sudden I wasn't a good potential partner at least outwardly lol and it really made me spin and over analyze every post or msg. It kind of spiraled till I just gave up and got back to level.
Hope your feeling better and apologize for the ramblings.
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Post by cherrycola on Apr 8, 2022 7:36:11 GMT
Sending my thoughts and support! I was horrible at online dating the one time I tried it, honestly it was a wierd experience for me. Do you think it's a physical thing that makes you feel a negative response from the sweetheart comment or just the change from PG to an almost presumptuous pet name? Is there an attractive feeling in the uneasiness or uncertainty of a more dismissive relationship? It was funny for me because in real life I am fairly confident and enjoy banter so I naturally make connections and think that I tend to attract interesting and talented people (although usually a bit crazy) where as online dating I am apparently not a very high value person lol. I attracted almost no one! Your post had me thinking though because that was the one time dating where I got super anxious. I couldn't understand how all of a sudden I wasn't a good potential partner at least outwardly lol and it really made me spin and over analyze every post or msg. It kind of spiraled till I just gave up and got back to level. Hope your feeling better and apologize for the ramblings. Don't apologize for the ramblings, I appreciate you following MY ramblings. I feel whiny, and am worried about how I am coming across. That I am once again "too much" and complaining to strangers on the internet. That I know better and should really cut off contact with all these insecure men. It is a physical feeling, almost like an anxiety? It also felt a bit cheap and made me distrust him? I can't tell if it was presumptuous or not, but to my attachment system he is just starting to veer into that line of liking me too much. He hasn't met me, so I think my brain wants to stay detached and find reasons why because I don't want to fall for an idea instead of a person. But also I don't trust men who call me beautiful or gorgeous etc. Like what are their motives, why are they saying that? I do not doubt that the men I date find me attractive, it's only everything else about me that I question. I am not sure if I get what you mean by an attractive feeling of uneasiness vs uncertainty? I also feel like online I am not a high value person. In real life I make up the lack of banter with being friendly and kind. I've had a few male friends tell me they had crushes on me at one point, but were afraid to tell me. Once I move online, I can attract a wide selection of men of handsome and successful men who offer me hookups, but as soon as I try to date more intentionally the pool dwindles to almost nothing. It also feels like I must rank pretty low on the apps because after a few weeks I get presented with worse and worse men. Still zero chats on OKC even after many weeks of swiping. I am considering that between my crazy hair color and geeky pursuits I may be inadvertently attracting a certain demographic of men that are just not suited for me. |
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rykus9
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Post by rykus9 on Apr 8, 2022 8:57:19 GMT
I don't find any of your, or most of the others doing work and sharing openly to come across as whiney. Those are your feelings. They are real and valid, and expressing them in writing seems to help process and understand what causes some of them.
I realize that as much as I hate to admit it I think I kind of crave the unsettled feeling of rejection or volatility probably because I want to fix things I felt as a kid.
It's like the other side of rejecting the people that compliment and chase. Chasing the hurt, putting energy into others that create the negative feelings we had as a child and felt powerless over.
Yeah people judge a lot, and a lot are afraid of what others think and let it affect their lives.thats why I decided online dating was bad for my mental health and made me kinda sad and unworthy feeling.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2022 13:23:20 GMT
cherrycola you aren't whining, don't worry about that it's just your inner critic. I also feel like a loser for posting on the internet sometimes but I just have to let it go; it helps to sort it all out with people who care enough to show up with helpful insights.
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Post by cherrycola on Apr 12, 2022 6:42:43 GMT
Spent the weekend away with Mr. AP. Very mixed feelings. My nervous system feels grounded with him. There is no anxiety or urge to run away like I get with most people. Even friends can trigger anxiety in me sometimes. There was a lot of silence this weekend, but it wasn't an awkward silence, it mostly felt okay. Sometimes I would look over and his eyes were closed and he was just seemed to be in his own world and that was okay. We had lots of small moments of locking eyes and smiling at each other.
Now the not so good. He admitted he has been keeping his space because he didn't think he could give me what I wanted out of a relationship. I also think he was disassociating on and off. I said he looked like a deer in headlights and he confirmed he was overwhelmed. There was hot and cold. He could go from affectionate to just cold and withdrawn, it was hard to not take offense to it. He wanted to sleep in the same bed but didn't want to be intimate. He opened up about the place he is in and it is dark. In connecting to it I was connecting with some of the darker parts of me which was a bit difficult. I brought up when he yelled at me and he didn't remember it at first. Nor could he answer about some hot and cold I had noticed before.
It is clear to me now he does not have the emotional capacity for a relationship. But even then my brain kept filling in the blanks with "he doesn't want a relationship - with you" "if you were enough for him, he wouldn't feel so hopeless" "he only asked you to come because he had no one else". But since he doesn't seem to want physical intimacy, and just occasional affection I feel safer. I can treat it more like a friendship. It was hard to not be clingy since I am such a touchy feely person but I think I need to let him set the pace with affection.
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Post by cherrycola on Apr 13, 2022 16:43:01 GMT
Surprisingly Mr AP asked me out again but it was an oddly formal invitation. When I got home he sent me a super long text saying he didn't want to lead me on, with the things he saw were our differences. Some of the things were valid concerns, some felt like excuses. Like none of them were a surprise and I did tell him that. I turned it into an argument instead of just accepting it because it felt like things that could be talked through. I tried to call him but he sent me to VM and we continued to fight over text. I ended up saying I know it wasn't a rejection of me that our core values are different but I was hurt and didn't quite know what to do because I do like spending time with him. I asked him what he wanted to do. I meant re being friends but I don't think I worded it well.
He said I don't understand him and asked me a bunch of questions. By then it was 5am and I fired off a bunch of texts and fell asleep.
This morning I can see how I didn't bother to clarify a few statements he had made before and made some assumptions and I can see why he feels misunderstood. How we both didn't communicate well and there are now misunderstandings.
I also know I'm not crazy and he was sending me mixed messages and enjoys my company, there is a friendship worth saving here. But maybe that is the FA in me that doesn't like cutting people out of my life. I keep typing and deleting because I don't know what to say but feels like it just spiralled way bigger then it needed to. I had mostly accepted this not turning into some big love affair but I guess I was hoping we would continue to date casually.
Also think I am feeling triggered over the not understanding him and how this may be impacting dating overall. I dated someone else for four months and no matter how hard I tried I couldn't understand him. It obviously fell apart. It feels like this is something that impedes all my relationships to some degree so is a me thing. But I also know that as someone who never feels understood I also have a responsibility to communicate that to someone and offer them enough information to understand me. It isn't always on the other person to try to pull it out of me.
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rykus9
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Post by rykus9 on Apr 13, 2022 19:51:03 GMT
A lot of the things he says are very similar to things I said/did as a dismissive subconsciously trying to get the other person to basically make all the moves and put themselves out there without me doing the same. I don't think I meant to do this, it just felt like I didn't understand what the other person wanted from me and felt like I probably wasn't capable of living up to whatever that was.
Saying things like he did(I did) lowers the expectations in my mind but really it is just the start of an anxious avoidant trap. I wanted the chase the reassurance at every point but with no tools to actually put myself out there I say those dismissive things that feel like rejection to an anxious person. It isn't it's just low self worth or an inability to emotionally respond and trying to find logic in the illogical.
Not defending his actions or saying that putting extra effort in would be a good idea but imo that's what I feel when I'm letting someone in.
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Post by alexandra on Apr 13, 2022 20:40:29 GMT
I wanted the chase the reassurance at every point but with no tools to actually put myself out there I say those dismissive things that feel like rejection to an anxious person. It isn't it's just low self worth or an inability to emotionally respond and trying to find logic in the illogical. I experienced this, too, from the other side. An FA ex was very clearly saying words of rejection to me (big disparity in words and actions), and I got upset but was further along towards secure though still AP -- meaning I had done just enough work to speak up. I said I was upset that he was rejecting me, and he looked surprised and said he wasn't. In retrospect, he was trying to toe the line of keeping me around without calling it commitment anymore so he could be comfortable enough to stay present, not get overwhelmed and shut down. But it was still a half-measure that wasn't going to turn back into a healthy or functional relationship. And again, I think when cherrycola is describing all these communication difficulties with all the people you've dated, it's still a selection bias. The problems are being magnified by you choosing insecure partners, it's not necessarily that you inherently can't understand people or be understood. You're aware of your own challenges and issues, so there is probably some difference in your thinking versus other people's, but the extent of it is definitely related to low EQ / low emotional maturity in your partners as well. |
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