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Post by hyrophania on Oct 23, 2023 11:47:04 GMT
I am anxious attachted and in a relationship with a FA who leans avoidant (at least that's my guess).
We have a long history (20+ years) of knowing each other. And we already were twice in a relationship with each other.
2 years and 9 months ago we got back together. After two years of long distance we moved in together 7 months ago.
Last week I found out tha my partner was cheating on me with an ex. I had a gut feeling and checked his phone. After 3 days I confronted him. However, our conversation wasn't fruitful.
One day after the conversation he was very nice to me, wanted to spend time and be close to me. The following days he was in a bad mood and quite distant.
Yesterday I asked him to readress the issue, writing him a long message, asking him what he wants (the ex / me / no relationship at all), since I couldn't let the topic go.
His first response was that he wants to end the relationship. That trust is broken (from both sides). And that the snooping of some of his ex girlfriends was the reason to break up with them. Also he mentioned that his actions are responsible for the fact that I am sad and disappinted and that this mustn't be. He asked himself loudly if he wants and needs the relationship and if he would be able to continue with it. At the end he made no clear decision concerning our relationship status.
Since we were on a short holiday trip we've spent the whole day with each other. It by times felt like a normal couple thing. We also attended a dinner invite together and all seemed good. He even initiated physical contact.
However, he explained me yesterday afternoon and this morning that he'd still be defiant and that he isn't decided on our relationship yet. He also does't want to speak about it.
I am at a loss.
We are currently on our way back home and ignoring each other. I booked a room for the next 1 1/2 weeks to stay away from him.
I would like to mend things and rescue our relationship. I just don't know what to do. Maybe some of you have some insights? It would be highly appreciated.
Also, I know that cheating should be a red line. But, mostly due to my own insecure attachment style, it isn't right now. I've got work to do on that one. I know!
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Post by anne12 on Oct 23, 2023 12:19:38 GMT
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 23, 2023 13:58:08 GMT
I am anxious attachted and in a relationship with a FA who leans avoidant (at least that's my guess). We have a long history (20+ years) of knowing each other. And we already were twice in a relationship with each other. 2 years and 9 months ago we got back together. After two years of long distance we moved in together 7 months ago. Last week I found out tha my partner was cheating on me with an ex. I had a gut feeling and checked his phone. After 3 days I confronted him. However, our conversation wasn't fruitful. One day after the conversation he was very nice to me, wanted to spend time and be close to me. The following days he was in a bad mood and quite distant. Yesterday I asked him to readress the issue, writing him a long message, asking him what he wants (the ex / me / no relationship at all), since I couldn't let the topic go. His first response was that he wants to end the relationship. That trust is broken (from both sides). And that the snooping of some of his ex girlfriends was the reason to break up with them. Also he mentioned that his actions are responsible for the fact that I am sad and disappinted and that this mustn't be. He asked himself loudly if he wants and needs the relationship and if he would be able to continue with it. At the end he made no clear decision concerning our relationship status. Since we were on a short holiday trip we've spent the whole day with each other. It by times felt like a normal couple thing. We also attended a dinner invite together and all seemed good. He even initiated physical contact. However, he explained me yesterday afternoon and this morning that he'd still be defiant and that he isn't decided on our relationship yet. He also does't want to speak about it. I am at a loss. We are currently on our way back home and ignoring each other. I booked a room for the next 1 1/2 weeks to stay away from him. I would like to mend things and rescue our relationship. I just don't know what to do. Maybe some of you have some insights? It would be highly appreciated. Also, I know that cheating should be a red line. But, mostly due to my own insecure attachment style, it isn't right now. I've got work to do on that one. I know! I know this is not the advice you are looking for…but this type of relationship is not truly salvageable if only 1 of you wants the relationship and the other does not. There are all kinds of websites that promise you ways to “win” back your partner, but those are built around manipulation…..to act as if you do not have any attachment insecurities and to use his insecurities against him. It might work in the short term, but since he isn’t doing anything to address his issues (cheating is only part of his deeper issues) then it will simply be another go on the same merry go round. In order for there to be a real prayer at this….both of you would need to be in individual therapy and working to address your childhood wounds…..not just what is happening between the 2 of you, but the actual source of your insecurity. Cheating is not only a form of disrespect, it is also a way to avoid having to deal with his own issues of unavailability and his ambivalence. Put another way…he doesn’t have to be real with either of you….he can simply ensure his needs are met while keeping both of you on the hook. 20 years is a long time to invest in someone who hasn’t prioritized you…..there are a lot of men who would likely be a much better partner. For now….therapy is a great decision. I personally like somatic experiencing therapy…but any therapy that understands attachment wounding is a good start. |
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Post by hyrophania on Oct 23, 2023 14:33:41 GMT
anne12Thank you for your comment. I will look though the ressources.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 23, 2023 14:34:39 GMT
I agree with tnr9 and think you'll be hard-pressed to find advice here to go back to a cheater. Especially one who isn't particularly regretful about it. It's understandable that you are panicked about someone you've invested so many years in and who you live with, as breaking up in that situation will be very destabilizing for a time. But allowing yourself to stay in the situation is you abandoning yourself and will never bring you happiness, as he isn't going to respect someone who lets him get away with anything he wants (on top of any attachment issues, which at this point are not the primary problem). Attachment issues do not excuse cheating. Cheating in this case may indicate that he wants to totally decimate the existing dynamic you have because it's not working, and he didn't have any mature way to do that so chose the worst possible course of action in order to force change. Or he's completely selfish and lacks empathy (or both!). But even if there's an explanation, it's not an excuse. It's just a sign of how broken things are and how he does not have the tools, or it sounds like the intention, to fix things. He makes terrible decisions and was trying to take a lazy way out. While this isn't what you want to hear, look at the big picture. You're not the one who needs to save this relationship, as you did nothing wrong. He blamed you for snooping because it led to him getting caught and now he needs to deal with it when he doesn't want to, that's not really the issue here. He needs to do a lot of work too, none of which he's doing. Do not compromise everything you are by trying to force this to work out or you'll have far less left over than you would by disconnecting from him and dealing with that pain within yourself head on. |
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Post by hyrophania on Oct 23, 2023 14:46:35 GMT
tnr9I think, if it wouldn't affect me, I'd write a similar response. Theoretically I am aware that there needs to be individual therapy. For him and for me. I am seeing a therapist, though. I am willing to put in the work. But it seems that he is deactivating right now and there is no use to even try to speak with him. I'll give him space and let him know via text that I won't becoming home for a few and that he can contactvme once he is ready to talk. He did work on his issues in the past. And we really made progress. Until the cheating, of course. Being anxious attached the not knowing, of course, drives me crazy. I will try to focus on myself. But I know how hard that gonna be. I think where I sm lacking of understanding is how snooping his phone is worse than cheating. I mean, sure, we can argue that I didn't trust him...but I obviously was right. Feels like being in a world upside down...
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Post by hyrophania on Oct 23, 2023 15:16:27 GMT
alexandraI do understand everything you are saying...cognitively. However the emotions run havoc. And I am not able to get them under control. It's insane that I am not simply (as it would ever be simple) quitting the relationship. But wait what he decides. I think it's pretty clear that I am emotionally dependent on him. And you are soooo right about the interruption a break-up would bring to my life (temporarely). When we moved together I moved into his city. I barely have here any social cobtacts. I do have a job that keeps me kinda busy. But finding a new apartment will be super hard, especially an affordable one. Besides that I might lose access to his daughter, whom I dearly love. Well, I will need to sit a bit with my thoughts and feelings... Thank you bunches for your reply.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 23, 2023 19:30:09 GMT
I think where I sm lacking of understanding is how snooping his phone is worse than cheating. I mean, sure, we can argue that I didn't trust him...but I obviously was right. It's not. He's gaslighting you. That's why you're "lacking" understanding and it doesn't seem right. That's how gaslighting makes people feel! My opinion is no one should snoop because you should have a mutual foundation of trust and therefore not want to because you don't need to. There's nothing to hide. But if you do want to, there's a reason for it. That reason is either personal issues and projection that cause the snooper to distrust anyone whether or not they deserve it... those snoopers can be possessive and controlling, and that's really bad. OR you feel compelled to snoop because there's distrust for a reason: the other person is doing something and you know in your gut they can't be trusted, and you don't want to keep second guessing your gut and staying ignorant. In that case, the relationship is already broken due to the actions of the other person, and then the snooping simply isn't the underlying problem. It's just another symptom of the dysfunction of the existing relationship already. Do not let him guilt you, control you, and avoid the situation by convincing you he's not the one totally in the wrong here, and discovering he's cheating is worse than him cheating. No. If you were snooping and he was a great partner who never gave you reason to distrust him, then the issues would be on you. But that's not the case in this situation. Being anxious attached the not knowing, of course, drives me crazy. Sadly, there is actually no not knowing here. You do know. Whatever he offers you will be subpar against what you want or deserve. He's going to offer you something disrespectful to you and entirely on his own terms, whether that's sticking around so you can tolerate poor treatment or him breaking up totally so you can pine away for his poor treatment. This is why YOU get to decide for yourself what you want and don't need to wait for him to do it for you. I hope you're discussing with your therapist why you'd prefer to let someone who has treated you horribly and does not have your best interest at heart make such a big decision on your behalf. There's certainly a reason in your past that you've been primed to respond to someone emotionally unsafe for you in this way. You are stronger than you think, you just need to allow yourself to be. |
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Post by cherrycola on Oct 23, 2023 20:01:20 GMT
As someone who emotionally cheated 3 times over 17 years, not once did I gaslight my partner, and each time when he caught on, I was honest and upfront with him. I didn't get mad at him for being suspicious, because I was acting different, there was reason for him to feel that way! I was actually relieved because I was doing this because I did not have the tools to have the conversations we needed to have. I ended it on the last cycle and he was absolutely devastated and he begged me to stay. I just couldn't because I did not want to be that person anymore. It's taken a lot of work on my end to address why I would have emotional affairs rather then have discussions with my long term partner. Gaslighting is a whole different thing from attachment issues and is manipulative. He is getting mad at you for snooping to try to divert attention from the actual problem, him cheating. alexandra is right if you go back, you go back on his terms and he will have more and more power and control in this relationship. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2023 1:00:09 GMT
You won't be able to save a relationship under these conditions, you will only suffer.
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 24, 2023 7:46:22 GMT
tnr9 I think, if it wouldn't affect me, I'd write a similar response. Theoretically I am aware that there needs to be individual therapy. For him and for me. I am seeing a therapist, though. I am willing to put in the work. But it seems that he is deactivating right now and there is no use to even try to speak with him. I'll give him space and let him know via text that I won't becoming home for a few and that he can contactvme once he is ready to talk. He did work on his issues in the past. And we really made progress. Until the cheating, of course. Being anxious attached the not knowing, of course, drives me crazy. I will try to focus on myself. But I know how hard that gonna be. I think where I sm lacking of understanding is how snooping his phone is worse than cheating. I mean, sure, we can argue that I didn't trust him...but I obviously was right. Feels like being in a world upside down... How did he work on his issues? The reason I am asking you this is that as an anxiously leaning FA…I know the stories I would tell myself regarding perceived, temporary changes in the guy I was dating. It isn’t unusual for things to improve “short term” but to revert back long term because the underlying, root issues are not addressed. He might also have some narcissistic tendencies….gaslighting is one of many tools that narcissists employ. People with narcissistic tendencies also tend to have multiple partners as sources of supply….rotating through old partners and adding new ones into the mix. The fact that he admitted that he has had other partners who “snooped” should be an indication that he isn’t a trustworthy partner and that you are not alone or even at fault. I would suggest reading up on narcissistic traits and seeing if he has displayed any others. I spent 3 years in a relationship with a guy who clearly had NPD. He broke up with me 3 times and if I did not get specific therapy, I suspect i would still be on that merry go round. Narcissists are attracted to very anxious and empathetic people who are willing to stay regardless of how they are treated. There is a really good forum that I recommend if you do end up determining that he does have narcissistic traits. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2023 14:19:06 GMT
Imagine... a serial cheater who says that the reason he leaves women is because they investigate his cheating. You are in hard core denial to think you can fix this.
This man has targeted you because your insecurity enables him. Make no mistake, your AP attachment is the reason this relationship exists, it's the reason he's able to get away with cheating and have you still hanging on with a death grip. He doesn't want a secure, healthy woman. He wants someone to control, manipulate, gaslight, blame, and use. An AP woman fits the bill perfectly.
There is no chance of getting healthy together, that's a fantasy sprouting from your fear of abandonment and the dread of having to face what this actually is.
Why am I so sure? I just am. 20 years, 3 failed relationships with him, and he's still shoveling shit your way and you're still taking it. It will take some serious therapeutic intervention for you to heal and transform your own attachment style, and it would be prudent to turn your focus to that as there isn't much to figure out about him - he's shown you everything you need to know. If you don't accept what he's showing you and take action you will be going around on this merry go round even longer.
Sure, I could be wrong. This could be the "diamond in the rough" relationship where cheating evolves into healthy commitment because the cheated-on is too insecure to leave. If so, I'll eat my own shoes.
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Post by anne12 on Oct 24, 2023 15:11:51 GMT
Deadlines:
It may be good to make deadlines when you are in a yo-yo relationship or in a situation in the relationship that is characterized by uncertainty for the future - and where the situation is different than you want it to be.
Ex. for when to move in together. Or if one has been unfaithful and trust needs to be rebuilt, or the other is stressed out and dont want to do anything to change it or a work that takes a lot of time, a person being depressed and who is not working on getting better or similar situations.
The effect of deadlines is that there will be calm in one's nervous system, because one places the desired change on the shelf for a period. Rather than fighting and forcing a change in a situation during a time when it is not possible.
Many things must be allowed to develop and mature.
Setting a deadline means that you signal to yourself that you are true to yourself. That you do not want to put up with the situation endlessly.
Sometimes you do not have to say your deadlines aloud, because then you put an unconstitutional pressure on the other.
It also helps you to come back into your own power
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Post by hyrophania on Oct 27, 2023 5:35:01 GMT
First, thank you all for your thoughts.
I will try to answer individually during the weekend.
At the same time I think I need to give some additional information to explain my situation better. Not that the additional info might make the situation any better, though.
I also will try to reframe my question since I am interested to get the perspective of avoidant attached individuals concerning the withdrawal of my partner.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 27, 2023 15:54:31 GMT
FWIW, 3 of the posters who responded to you already have avoidant attachment styles. So you are getting advice from FA and DA.
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