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Post by stavs on Dec 19, 2017 23:03:07 GMT
Hi all. I'm new to this forum and understanding attachment styles. I've done a lot of reading online as well as Jeb's book, Avoidant, and am pretty confident that my girlfriend is a Fearful Avoidant. I am very much in love with her and really want to have a successful relationship with her. After having met on Facebook, we started chatting regularly for a few weeks and decided to meet in person. I should note that she was the "aggressor" and chased me.  We had our first date in March of this 2017. She is 32 and I am 47. The first few months of our "courtship" she was very loving and outgoing with me and about us. She told me from the start that she wasn't looking for a serious relationship due to her crazy work schedule. She works as a retail manager so it hard for her to find time to spend with someone. She has had boyfriends before, and has been in long term committed relationships. As we were dating things were progressing nicely and we both started to fall in love with each other. She actually tried to get me to profess my love to her one day, but I didn't bite out of fear of saying it to quickly, even though she admitted later she wanted me to. Over the months she would not commit to labeling us as a relationship, or boyfriend and girlfriend. This made me a little leary as my thought process was around her wanting to see other guys. I'm insecure and anxious, so go figure. This caused a few problems here and there and we split up a couple times, but only for a few days here. Things started getting odd as she started to pull away. She still loved me, but was not really saying sweet things to me anymore, made no effort to see me, various other changes. She blamed it all on work stress, which she does have, but I couldnt wrap my hands around why someone wouldnt want someone loving them and supporting them. The past few weeks I started researching why people pull away and came upon the fearful avoidant attachment stye. The description fits her her perfectly. Here are some of the signs she is displaying - I apologize if this is kind of a hodge podge of a message. - She is afraid of commitment. A few times when we were being "intimate" she whispered that I scared her because I was too intense. When I asked her what she meant, she told me it was because we were moving to fast.
- Another time when we were intimate she whispered to me to never leave her.
- One time I asked her if anything about me scared her and her response was: "your high level of commitment."
- She used to tell me her deepest darkest secrets (some very disturbing ones) and now she wont discuss her feelings at all.
- She often doesnt respond to texts or just kind of ghosts me.
- We do talk on the phone most days for hours at a time (2-6), but all she does is talk about her work and how stressful it is.
- She had a huge crush on a gentleman at work (she told me about it often) and one time when we split up, they hooked up and kissed. That day she was in heaven, but the next day she found out the truth behind him and that he was a jerk. She told me everything about this encounter when we got back together.
- She would gush about a couple other guys that she thought were really good looking and how she wanted them.
- She is extremely insecure about her looks and gaining weight. She is not ugly or fat and I constantly tell her how beautiful she is. At one point she told me I am the only person that has made her feel pretty.
- She has told me that boys never liked her when she was younger.
- She suffers from PSTD from an encounter in her prior career.
- She suffers from anxiety - medically diagnosed
- She said her and her last boyfriend broke up because he wasnt there for her when she needed him the most. She also said her family wasn't there for her either.
- She had a good friend that she was in love with deeply years ago that "friend zoned" her and she still clings onto that IMO. She was heavier at that time and I think she feels that she wasn't attractive enough for him which further feeds into her insecurities. This gentleman also soaked her out of a large sum of money apparently.
- She looks for excuses to sleep in a different bed.
- In the past she was excited about me including her in my future, but now she doesnt mention anythign about a future together.
- When we fight she always throws out "you deserve better than me" and "I cant give you what you want and need." She blames this on her job.
- Occasionally I will get an "I miss you" text and when i try to plan something, there is an excuse.
- She does have her moments where she will tell me how sweet I am, and that she loves me.
I know I have probably left a bunch of items out. I was thinking about this all day today and now my thoughts are everywhere! I really love this woman a great deal and want our relationship to work. Its very hard for me since I am anxious-preoccupied. I am constantly thinking about her and the relationship. I'm trying to understand her, but its very difficult. Does anyone have any tips or insight on how to handle this and make things better? |
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Post by yasmin on Dec 19, 2017 23:30:23 GMT
As I was reading this it reminded me a little of me in some ways because I think I have behaved like in some of these ways after my husband passed away and I was dating. I remember the first man I dated called me Katy Perry because I was hot and cold.
The truth was I liked him, maybe even loved him but I knew I'd never be able to love him back the same way he loved me and that I wasn't going to commit.
I am not sure if this answer helps. Is she avoidant? I don't know. Maybe. Some people are not great at commitment and some people go through phases of life where they're not ready to commit..to find out why don't you ask her to do the online test?
If she is avoidant she can get help with it and if she isn't you can get clarity. I think maybe I have fearful avoidant tendencies but honestly had no idea until I started reading the stories on this forum.
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Post by fatalcharm on Dec 19, 2017 23:35:10 GMT
Oh man, sounds so familiar... Definitely fits the Fearful Avoidant mold. I've been with someone like this on and off for a year and a half and tried everything as far as being understanding, patient and supportive. The ONLY way this is going to work is if she realizes she has a problem with attachment and seeks professional help for it. Even then you are in a for a long and bumpy ride.
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Post by stavs on Dec 20, 2017 0:46:31 GMT
I dont think she would take the test. I had written her a letter about a week ago and mentioned that I thought that this was the problem. I went into some detail about avoidant and anxious in there, but we havent discussed. She is really stressed about work as its their busy season and her store has a ton of issues and they keep mounting. Now isnt the time for me to add more stress. I am hoping that after the holidays we cna really talk. It sucks because I know she is capable of being loving, and I do feel she loves me dearly. Often times she will say how perfect I am. Its not liek she is completely void of emotion, it just comes in waves. I think the stress just compounds things and makes it worse.
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Post by yasmin on Dec 20, 2017 1:38:06 GMT
It's difficult if she doesn't want to change things because you're left there just hoping she does and being tortured a little in the meantime.
I think all this stuff is just so difficult to deal with because you have the "nice" bit and you just want that to be consistently there. I understand! But I really don't think you can do anything to change someone else.
Let me ask, if you do confirm she's avoidant (at least in your own head) does it change anything? Maybe it gives you an explanation or some comfort in your mind but it's also about a sacrifice on your behalf to give up your own needs to allow for someone else's.
I know you love her, but just also make room to love yourself too. I don't think it's meant to be confusing and painful. Your relationship is meant to be a source of support and comfort and safety.
Just don't give up on you!
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 20, 2017 1:59:41 GMT
It's difficult if she doesn't want to change things because you're left there just hoping she does and being tortured a little in the meantime. I think all this stuff is just so difficult to deal with because you have the "nice" bit and you just want that to be consistently there. I understand! But I really don't think you can do anything to change someone else. Let me ask, if you do confirm she's avoidant (at least in your own head) does it change anything? Maybe it gives you an explanation or some comfort in your mind but it's also about a sacrifice on your behalf to give up your own needs to allow for someone else's. I know you love her, but just also make room to love yourself too. I don't think it's meant to be confusing and painful. Your relationship is meant to be a source of support and comfort and safety. Just don't give up on you! Yasmin...I agree...as someone who also has AP as my attachment style...I so recognize the "hope" that what is intermittently provided now will transform into being consistently provided. It is banking on someone's potential as opposed to how they are right now. Stav...if nothing changes...if after the holiday season she is still putting work between you...if she isn't able to commit to you....would you still want to stay? Hard question I know because I also see potential in my ex...but I have to remind myself of who he is today. |
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Post by stavs on Dec 20, 2017 2:08:57 GMT
It's difficult if she doesn't want to change things because you're left there just hoping she does and being tortured a little in the meantime. I think all this stuff is just so difficult to deal with because you have the "nice" bit and you just want that to be consistently there. I understand! But I really don't think you can do anything to change someone else. Let me ask, if you do confirm she's avoidant (at least in your own head) does it change anything? Maybe it gives you an explanation or some comfort in your mind but it's also about a sacrifice on your behalf to give up your own needs to allow for someone else's. I know you love her, but just also make room to love yourself too. I don't think it's meant to be confusing and painful. Your relationship is meant to be a source of support and comfort and safety. Just don't give up on you! Yasmin...I agree...as someone who also has AP as my attachment style...I so recognize the "hope" that what is intermittently provided now will transform into being consistently provided. It is banking on someone's potential as opposed to how they are right now. Stav...if nothing changes...if after the holiday season she is still putting work between you...if she isn't able to commit to you....would you still want to stay? Hard question I know because I also see potential in my ex...but I have to remind myself of who he is today. Well if after the holidays nothing changes, I think I will need to look after my own needs and probably move on with my life. I would feel horrible because even though she says she "doesnt need anyone," she is foolin gherself. I have shown her over and over just how much value I add to her life and that she does in fact need me somewhat. I was kind of caught off guard tonight though. I had texted her earlier this morning with my usual good morning text and we had a short back and forth. i could tell she was cranky so I left her alone the rest of the day. Later I found out from my ex that our dog was diagnosed with pancreatitis which was obviously upsetting for me. I struggled with the idea of reaching out to my girl, but I bit the bullet and sent her a text of what happened. Well usually on her break at work she will text me and complain about how bad work is (a pattern here), but tonight she actually called me on her break to talk about it. I know she cares, I know she loves me, but she just struggles. I dont want to give up on her - I dont want to abandon her like others have. I know that is one of her main issues based on what she has said to me, and the stories she has told me about others. She has a true fear of abandonment, and I dont want to contribute to that, and I just want to help her. |
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 20, 2017 2:17:02 GMT
Yasmin...I agree...as someone who also has AP as my attachment style...I so recognize the "hope" that what is intermittently provided now will transform into being consistently provided. It is banking on someone's potential as opposed to how they are right now. Stav...if nothing changes...if after the holiday season she is still putting work between you...if she isn't able to commit to you....would you still want to stay? Hard question I know because I also see potential in my ex...but I have to remind myself of who he is today. Well if after the holidays nothing changes, I think I will need to look after my own needs and probably move on with my life. I would feel horrible because even though she says she "doesnt need anyone," she is foolin gherself. I have shown her over and over just how much value I add to her life and that she does in fact need me somewhat. I was kind of caught off guard tonight though. I had texted her earlier this morning with my usual good morning text and we had a short back and forth. i could tell she was cranky so I left her alone the rest of the day. Later I found out from my ex that our dog was diagnosed with pancreatitis which was obviously upsetting for me. I struggled with the idea of reaching out to my girl, but I bit the bullet and sent her a text of what happened. Well usually on her break at work she will text me and complain about how bad work is (a pattern here), but tonight she actually called me on her break to talk about it. I know she cares, I know she loves me, but she just struggles. I dont want to give up on her - I dont want to abandon her like others have. I know that is one of her main issues based on what she has said to me, and the stories she has told me about others. She has a true fear of abandonment, and I dont want to contribute to that, and I just want to help her. I understand Stavs....but to Yasmin's point above....don't sacrifice your needs to be overly accommodating to hers. It should be 2 people who care enough to about each other to be there for each other. It was nice that she was there for you today...but the fact that you were surprised by it indicates the field is not equal. My ex cares about me...I know he does.....and believe me....I would take a bullet for him....but I also see a pattern of me "trying to get it right" in order for him to choose me. Relationships really should not be that way. It is something to be mindful about. |
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Post by stavs on Dec 20, 2017 2:19:57 GMT
Oh its definitely not a level playing field. I honestly have bent over backwards for this woman and I would continue to do so. I'm just too nice most of the times. I'm startign therapy this week and reading a few books to try to change myself. I need to get out of this anxious-preoccupied state. I also need to bolster my confidence some.
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 20, 2017 2:25:19 GMT
Oh its definitely not a level playing field. I honestly have bent over backwards for this woman and I would continue to do so. I'm just too nice most of the times. I'm startign therapy this week and reading a few books to try to change myself. I need to get out of this anxious-preoccupied state. I also need to bolster my confidence some. Hey Stavs....have compassion on yourself...you did not develop this attachment style in a vacuum. I was just in a class where we actually went through attachments and how to "earn" a more secure attachment. The number one way to accomplish this is to surround yourself with secure friends who can be with you while you experience your anxiety. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 2:31:18 GMT
Welcome to the forum! There is a lot of information on these forums that can probably help you make some sense of what is going on. 8 or 9 months in seems to be a tricky time. You are wondering how to stay or if it's better to move on. As you know, you alone cannot make it better. If she's not willing to talk about it, you may end up bumping up against a brick wall. If you have mentioned it, she may be trying to digest it or just ignoring it, you don't know. On a one sided effort, the only advice I have is to give her space, but not too much space. To an AP, not too much space may mean a ton of space, I am not sure. My friend is FA and it's a tricky tightrope. Not enough space and she feels smothered, too much space and she feels neglected.
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 20, 2017 13:36:10 GMT
Hello Stavs, Your girl sounds somewhat like me. First thing I'd like to tell you, DO NOT ABANDON HER if you believe in the relationship. If you break up, she will reach out to you, you may end up together again, but her trust will be gone because of the break up, you would have already fulfilled her worst fear of being abandoned. If you feel that you can still have some margin that you can handle, stay. This relationship will not be easy, you must know already. It will be emotionally difficult until (and if) she starts showing some signs of security and commitment. You should also work on yourself, as you have noticed. Your AP tendencies have to stay low, or else she will show her avoidant part. It takes tons of patience and understanding, only true love can heal her wound. And years of steadfast commitment. It would help big time if she was aware of her fearful attachment. Otherwise, she could be thinking she is the problem because nobody seems to stay by her side. I mean, she may be the problem, but that problem was "acquired" and she should believe it can be reversed. One of the reasons she is reluctant to commit (at least one of MY reasons) is that she can already forsee you leaving her, therefore why invest? Why getting close and vulnerable again? At the end, everybody leaves. So, don't leave today nor tomorrow nor the next 5 years. If, however, you feel the break up is unavoidable, I suggest you come up with a good reason that doesn't involve her attachment style. Because then, you will confirm what she already suspects: that nobody will ever stay. Just tell her you've been transferred far away, as an example. disappear from her life and be consistent with the no contact even if she reaches out. Stavs...I think in order to accomplish this...you are going to need a support system who you can turn to when your AP is activated...because, for now...she likely cannot offer that consistency you need. That is why pairings of insecure attachment styles are not recommended....because both people need something they did not get that is driving some of their behaviors. I have found jounalling to be useful and calling out my attachment system when it is activated. Also...remind yourself that you are a worthy, loving person who deserves the same in return. Speaking negatively about yourself only continues the misinterpretation from our childhood that we were lacking something in order to get that consistent love. There is nothing "wrong" with you....if you can give yourself the same level of grace that you give to your gf...you may see your AP lessen. Good luck. |
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Post by stavs on Dec 20, 2017 15:02:29 GMT
I really appreciate everyone’s help. As I said I really want this to work and be a favorable experience for both of us. That being said, what are some strategies I can use with her? I send her a sweet good morning text every day. Should I stop that? Is that too invasive? Many times I’ll sinply get “thanks” as a response which gets me anxious and upset. Is ignoring her a good idea? A lot of times though I do feel like I am just being used as a shoulder to cry on about her work stuff and nothing more. I hope that’s not the case. When she’s not super stressed with work she is much sweeter and more available to me. That’s when I get the “I miss you texts” and such. It’s so difficult to deal with this, but I have to be strong if I want to keep her. I know she’s spooked because we broke up a few times and I get that. I need to build up her confidence in us again and show that I’m committed.
One thing I forgot to mention is when we first started saying she was keen on meeting my friends. It was her request and I’ve done so. She hasn’t introduced me to any of her friends or family at all. She also keeps our relationship very private which bothers me as well.
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 20, 2017 15:24:11 GMT
I really appreciate everyone’s help. As I said I really want this to work and be a favorable experience for both of us. That being said, what are some strategies I can use with her? I send her a sweet good morning text every day. Should I stop that? Is that too invasive? Many times I’ll sinply get “thanks” as a response which gets me anxious and upset. Is ignoring her a good idea? A lot of times though I do feel like I am just being used as a shoulder to cry on about her work stuff and nothing more. I hope that’s not the case. When she’s not super stressed with work she is much sweeter and more available to me. That’s when I get the “I miss you texts” and such. It’s so difficult to deal with this, but I have to be strong if I want to keep her. I know she’s spooked because we broke up a few times and I get that. I need to build up her confidence in us again and show that I’m committed. One thing I forgot to mention is when we first started saying she was keen on meeting my friends. It was her request and I’ve done so. She hasn’t introduced me to any of her friends or family at all. She also keeps our relationship very private which bothers me as well. Hi Stav....I would suggest you keep sending the good morning text....that is showing her "consistency" even if she isn't responding the way you would like...at least she is acknowledging it. I would not ignore her...that is game playing and I am not an advocate of game playing. I would instead work on developing "healthy boundaries" with your therapist so that you don't feel as if you are being taken advantage of. In fact..I would really suggest a bit less focus on her and more focus on yourself for now....what do you need in order to feel secure? Then find others who can meet those needs...thus taking the burden off of her if she cannot meet them. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 15:36:25 GMT
I really appreciate everyone’s help. As I said I really want this to work and be a favorable experience for both of us. That being said, what are some strategies I can use with her? I send her a sweet good morning text every day. Should I stop that? Is that too invasive? Many times I’ll sinply get “thanks” as a response which gets me anxious and upset. Is ignoring her a good idea? A lot of times though I do feel like I am just being used as a shoulder to cry on about her work stuff and nothing more. I hope that’s not the case. When she’s not super stressed with work she is much sweeter and more available to me. That’s when I get the “I miss you texts” and such. It’s so difficult to deal with this, but I have to be strong if I want to keep her. I know she’s spooked because we broke up a few times and I get that. I need to build up her confidence in us again and show that I’m committed. One thing I forgot to mention is when we first started saying she was keen on meeting my friends. It was her request and I’ve done so. She hasn’t introduced me to any of her friends or family at all. She also keeps our relationship very private which bothers me as well. Since this is not a game, I would probably stop thinking about "strategy". You have to be who you are and strategies promote overthinking and just get tiring. Stability is important. If you have always sent her a good morning text and you feel good about doing it, keep doing it. Inconsistencies can be a trigger. Not knowing what it is to be AP, I do not know why her response of "thanks" is a trigger for you, but something for you to think about. I would think that crying on your shoulder is a good thing. She is relying on you for support and if she is avoidant, it's not easy to rely on anyone for anything. She's not "using" you. It's normal to share your stresses with your partner and to support each other in that way. I have noticed about myself too that I am more available when I am not stressed about other things. This is somewhat normal, but can be magnified for an avoidant. It has been shown in marriages that outside stressors such as money problems, etc can lead to a demise of a marriage, so it's similar. In times of stress, I find I like more space, but she may be different. For me, I don't introduce bfs to others until I have confidence in the relationship. Everyone's timeline is different and unfortunately, the faster one has to wait for the slower one in most cases. If you can understand that it's just a different timeline rather than a personal affront to you, it might help. All of this is just my opinion, but hopefully helpful in some way. |
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We had our first date in March of this 2017. She is 32 and I am 47. The first few months of our "courtship" she was very loving and outgoing with me and about us. She told me from the start that she wasn't looking for a serious relationship due to her crazy work schedule. She works as a retail manager so it hard for her to find time to spend with someone. She has had boyfriends before, and has been in long term committed relationships. As we were dating things were progressing nicely and we both started to fall in love with each other. She actually tried to get me to profess my love to her one day, but I didn't bite out of fear of saying it to quickly, even though she admitted later she wanted me to. Over the months she would not commit to labeling us as a relationship, or boyfriend and girlfriend. This made me a little leary as my thought process was around her wanting to see other guys. I'm insecure and anxious, so go figure. This caused a few problems here and there and we split up a couple times, but only for a few days here. Things started getting odd as she started to pull away. She still loved me, but was not really saying sweet things to me anymore, made no effort to see me, various other changes. She blamed it all on work stress, which she does have, but I couldnt wrap my hands around why someone wouldnt want someone loving them and supporting them. The past few weeks I started researching why people pull away and came upon the fearful avoidant attachment stye. The description fits her her perfectly. Here are some of the signs she is displaying - I apologize if this is kind of a hodge podge of a message.
