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Post by tnr9 on Dec 20, 2017 15:48:03 GMT
I really appreciate everyone’s help. As I said I really want this to work and be a favorable experience for both of us. That being said, what are some strategies I can use with her? I send her a sweet good morning text every day. Should I stop that? Is that too invasive? Many times I’ll sinply get “thanks” as a response which gets me anxious and upset. Is ignoring her a good idea? A lot of times though I do feel like I am just being used as a shoulder to cry on about her work stuff and nothing more. I hope that’s not the case. When she’s not super stressed with work she is much sweeter and more available to me. That’s when I get the “I miss you texts” and such. It’s so difficult to deal with this, but I have to be strong if I want to keep her. I know she’s spooked because we broke up a few times and I get that. I need to build up her confidence in us again and show that I’m committed. One thing I forgot to mention is when we first started saying she was keen on meeting my friends. It was her request and I’ve done so. She hasn’t introduced me to any of her friends or family at all. She also keeps our relationship very private which bothers me as well. Since this is not a game, I would probably stop thinking about "strategy". You have to be who you are and strategies promote overthinking and just get tiring. Stability is important. If you have always sent her a good morning text and you feel good about doing it, keep doing it. Inconsistencies can be a trigger. Not knowing what it is to be AP, I do not know why her response of "thanks" is a trigger for you, but something for you to think about. I would think that crying on your shoulder is a good thing. She is relying on you for support and if she is avoidant, it's not easy to rely on anyone for anything. She's not "using" you. It's normal to share your stresses with your partner and to support each other in that way. I have noticed about myself too that I am more available when I am not stressed about other things. This is somewhat normal, but can be magnified for an avoidant. It has been shown in marriages that outside stressors such as money problems, etc can lead to a demise of a marriage, so it's similar. In times of stress, I find I like more space, but she may be different. For me, I don't introduce bfs to others until I have confidence in the relationship. Everyone's timeline is different and unfortunately, the faster one has to wait for the slower one in most cases. If you can understand that it's just a different timeline rather than a personal affront to you, it might help. All of this is just my opinion, but hopefully helpful in some way. I think Mary....what is missing is the reciprocity in care....he is sending her a sweet good morning text....but she isn't sending one back to him.....he is providing a shoulder for her to cry on....yet I am not reading about the same being offered for him. This is where an AP starts to feel used...because the actions seem so one sided. I am not saying that she isn't giving him some attention, but from what he is saying...it isn't the consistency/reciprocity that he needs. This is where I think that APs and DAs are at odds....needs versus boundaries. I am sure from her perspective she is giving what she can...it just doesn't register on his radar and thus....the attachment system is triggered. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 16:27:19 GMT
Since this is not a game, I would probably stop thinking about "strategy". You have to be who you are and strategies promote overthinking and just get tiring. Stability is important. If you have always sent her a good morning text and you feel good about doing it, keep doing it. Inconsistencies can be a trigger. Not knowing what it is to be AP, I do not know why her response of "thanks" is a trigger for you, but something for you to think about. I would think that crying on your shoulder is a good thing. She is relying on you for support and if she is avoidant, it's not easy to rely on anyone for anything. She's not "using" you. It's normal to share your stresses with your partner and to support each other in that way. I have noticed about myself too that I am more available when I am not stressed about other things. This is somewhat normal, but can be magnified for an avoidant. It has been shown in marriages that outside stressors such as money problems, etc can lead to a demise of a marriage, so it's similar. In times of stress, I find I like more space, but she may be different. For me, I don't introduce bfs to others until I have confidence in the relationship. Everyone's timeline is different and unfortunately, the faster one has to wait for the slower one in most cases. If you can understand that it's just a different timeline rather than a personal affront to you, it might help. All of this is just my opinion, but hopefully helpful in some way. I think Mary....what is missing is the reciprocity in care....he is sending her a sweet good morning text....but she isn't sending one back to him.....he is providing a shoulder for her to cry on....yet I am not reading about the same being offered for him. This is where an AP starts to feel used...because the actions seem so one sided. I am not saying that she isn't giving him some attention, but from what he is saying...it isn't the consistency/reciprocity that he needs. This is where I think that APs and DAs are at odds....needs versus boundaries. I am sure from her perspective she is giving what she can...it just doesn't register on his radar and thus....the attachment system is triggered. I would have to ask, is he giving her the opportunity to reciprocate? Is he telling her his stressors or assuming that she is not reliable? I actually do not know if she is avoidant. Consistently crying on his shoulder and talking on the phone for 2 plus hours a day jump out at me. Is it possible that she just has low self esteem and thinks she is unloveable? I know that can be the base for an FA, but I am not sure it makes you FA. It sounds to me she has rather large needs to the point he is feeling used. I get what you are saying about the one sidedness, it just has never been my experience. I was always told that my difficulty in relying emotionally on others was the issue. They relied on me, but I was never able to reciprocate that. |
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Post by yasmin on Dec 20, 2017 17:20:38 GMT
Isn't the anxious / avoidant trap a bit co-dependent though if both parties aren't asking for help to blend their needs? I feel a bit like people are advising stavs on ways to make her feel better and respond better to soothe her anxieties, but no one is soothing his. He's the one Googling to try and find out why his GF is hurting his feelings  I feel like her needs are being more than met, it's poor Stavs who's needs are at the bottom of the pile here. No one on the internet can advise you really I guess Stavs, but I just wanted to offer you a bit of support that didn't relate to her and what she needed. I hope you can feel like you are as important as she is, because there's a lot of very long, very toxic relationships in the world where people are essentially emotionally abused on a consistent basis. |
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 20, 2017 17:33:43 GMT
Isn't the anxious / avoidant trap a bit co-dependent though if both parties aren't asking for help to blend their needs? I feel a bit like people are advising stavs on ways to make her feel better and respond better to soothe her anxieties, but no one is soothing his. He's the one Googling to try and find out why his GF is hurting his feelings I feel like her needs are being more than met, it's poor Stavs who's needs are at the bottom of the pile here. No one on the internet can advise you really I guess Stavs, but I just wanted to offer you a bit of support that didn't relate to her and what she needed. I hope you can feel like you are as important as she is, because there's a lot of very long, very toxic relationships in the world where people are essentially emotionally abused on a consistent basis. Hey Yasmin....I did offer Stavs some suggestions on the bottom of page one. As an AP, I think the best advice is to pay more attention to our needs and find other secure individuals who are willing to meet them so that the focus and the burden doesn't fall so heavily on the DA/FA who is unlikely to be able to fully meet them if they are not aware of their style. I also think that developing heathy boundaries is key since as APs we will tend to adjust our boundaries to meet our partner's which can again lead to feelings of resentment. As an AP, I will put in a lot of effort to understand my partner....but will feel triggered if I don't sense my partner is doing the same....if we put as much compassion, understanding and grace towards ourselves...I think it would go a long way. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 18:08:25 GMT
Isn't the anxious / avoidant trap a bit co-dependent though if both parties aren't asking for help to blend their needs? I feel a bit like people are advising stavs on ways to make her feel better and respond better to soothe her anxieties, but no one is soothing his. He's the one Googling to try and find out why his GF is hurting his feelings I feel like her needs are being more than met, it's poor Stavs who's needs are at the bottom of the pile here. No one on the internet can advise you really I guess Stavs, but I just wanted to offer you a bit of support that didn't relate to her and what she needed. I hope you can feel like you are as important as she is, because there's a lot of very long, very toxic relationships in the world where people are essentially emotionally abused on a consistent basis. I don't think this is true at all if you go back and read the responses. Plus people are only trying to be helpful in response to the questions he asked. |
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Post by stavs on Dec 20, 2017 18:26:56 GMT
Every Be is being extremely helpful and I appreciate it all so much. The question was asked about her self esteem. She is very insecure and often feels like she is not god enough. She has a history of being rejected by men which eats at her, she doesn’t feel pretty and thinks she’s hideous and fat, and she has often said she was not in certain guys leagues. I try to squash her insecurities every chance I get. A common phrase in situations is “I’m not good enough” whether it’s work or personal. She doesn’t want to let people down, yet she is letting me down with zero affection.
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Post by flowerpoww on Dec 20, 2017 18:49:14 GMT
I think Mary....what is missing is the reciprocity in care....he is sending her a sweet good morning text....but she isn't sending one back to him.....he is providing a shoulder for her to cry on....yet I am not reading about the same being offered for him. This is where an AP starts to feel used...because the actions seem so one sided. I am not saying that she isn't giving him some attention, but from what he is saying...it isn't the consistency/reciprocity that he needs. This is where I think that APs and DAs are at odds....needs versus boundaries. I am sure from her perspective she is giving what she can...it just doesn't register on his radar and thus....the attachment system is triggered. I would have to ask, is he giving her the opportunity to reciprocate? Is he telling her his stressors or assuming that she is not reliable? I actually do not know if she is avoidant. Consistently crying on his shoulder and talking on the phone for 2 plus hours a day jump out at me. Is it possible that she just has low self esteem and thinks she is unloveable? I know that can be the base for an FA, but I am not sure it makes you FA. It sounds to me she has rather large needs to the point he is feeling used. I get what you are saying about the one sidedness, it just has never been my experience. I was always told that my difficulty in relying emotionally on others was the issue. They relied on me, but I was never able to reciprocate that. I have to say you bring up a very interesting point and something I've not thought about before so maybe this will be helpful to other APs. My FA/DA would never reciprocate. I always was a listening ear when he needed it but when I was in distress it seemed like he disappeared. I never verbalized my needs but would stew and steam over what felt like neglect to me. Finally last week I opened up to him about how I felt abandoned when I was stressed yet I was always there when he was stressed. I do grant that he made time to hear me out and tried to comfort me once I finally brought up my needs. But to me it felt hollow and forced on his end, but he did try. I still cut him off as he tried, feeling bad that it wasn't "natural" for him and then I went no contact. I realize now I didn't even give him an opportunity to settle into that role. All I could focus on was how forced this role was for him and how ungenuine it was. It's something to think about. Obviously this doesn't come naturally for FA. They are very inwardly focused. I think we have a knee jerk reaction and can smell when they're trying, which to us may feel fake to us but be an earnest attempt on their part. |
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Post by stavs on Dec 20, 2017 19:05:15 GMT
I would have to ask, is he giving her the opportunity to reciprocate? Is he telling her his stressors or assuming that she is not reliable? I actually do not know if she is avoidant. Consistently crying on his shoulder and talking on the phone for 2 plus hours a day jump out at me. Is it possible that she just has low self esteem and thinks she is unloveable? I know that can be the base for an FA, but I am not sure it makes you FA. It sounds to me she has rather large needs to the point he is feeling used. I get what you are saying about the one sidedness, it just has never been my experience. I was always told that my difficulty in relying emotionally on others was the issue. They relied on me, but I was never able to reciprocate that. I have to say you bring up a very interesting point and something I've not thought about before so maybe this will be helpful to other APs. My FA/DA would never reciprocate. I always was a listening ear when he needed it but when I was in distress it seemed like he disappeared. I never verbalized my needs but would stew and steam and what felt like neglect to me. Finally last week I opened up to him about how I felt abandoned when I was stressed but I was always there when he was. I do grant that he made time to hear me out and tried to comfort me. It felt hollow and forced on his end but he did try. But I cut him off as he tried, feeling bad that it wasn't "natural" for him and I went no contact. I realize now I didn't even give him an opportunity to settle into that role. It's something to think about. Obviously this doesn't come naturally for FA. That are very inwardly focused. I think we have a knee jerk reaction and can smell when they're trying, which to us may feel fake but be an earnest attempt on their part. I often find myself saying she’s selfish. 😕 |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 19:11:56 GMT
I would have to ask, is he giving her the opportunity to reciprocate? Is he telling her his stressors or assuming that she is not reliable? I actually do not know if she is avoidant. Consistently crying on his shoulder and talking on the phone for 2 plus hours a day jump out at me. Is it possible that she just has low self esteem and thinks she is unloveable? I know that can be the base for an FA, but I am not sure it makes you FA. It sounds to me she has rather large needs to the point he is feeling used. I get what you are saying about the one sidedness, it just has never been my experience. I was always told that my difficulty in relying emotionally on others was the issue. They relied on me, but I was never able to reciprocate that. I have to say you bring up a very interesting point and something I've not thought about before so maybe this will be helpful to other APs. My FA/DA would never reciprocate. I always was a listening ear when he needed it but when I was in distress it seemed like he disappeared. I never verbalized my needs but would stew and steam and what felt like neglect to me. Finally last week I opened up to him about how I felt abandoned when I was stressed but I was always there when he was. I do grant that he made time to hear me out and tried to comfort me. It felt hollow and forced on his end but he did try. But I cut him off as he tried, feeling bad that it wasn't "natural" for him and I went no contact. I realize now I didn't even give him an opportunity to settle into that role. It's something to think about. Obviously this doesn't come naturally for FA. That are very inwardly focused. I think we have a knee jerk reaction and can smell when they're trying, which to us may feel fake but be an earnest attempt on their part. I'm just going to throw out another possibility. The unnatural feeling of it could be nervousness. With my ex AP, it seemed that no matter what I said or did in those times, it was never the right thing. As with any person, avoidants want to please their partner, but it never seems to be enough. I will become nervous/unconfortable sometimes in those situation, because I'm dreading the response of I said the wrong thing or I didn't do enough. |
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Post by flowerpoww on Dec 20, 2017 19:28:37 GMT
I have to say you bring up a very interesting point and something I've not thought about before so maybe this will be helpful to other APs. My FA/DA would never reciprocate. I always was a listening ear when he needed it but when I was in distress it seemed like he disappeared. I never verbalized my needs but would stew and steam and what felt like neglect to me. Finally last week I opened up to him about how I felt abandoned when I was stressed but I was always there when he was. I do grant that he made time to hear me out and tried to comfort me. It felt hollow and forced on his end but he did try. But I cut him off as he tried, feeling bad that it wasn't "natural" for him and I went no contact. I realize now I didn't even give him an opportunity to settle into that role. It's something to think about. Obviously this doesn't come naturally for FA. That are very inwardly focused. I think we have a knee jerk reaction and can smell when they're trying, which to us may feel fake but be an earnest attempt on their part. I often find myself saying she’s selfish. 😕 If she is avoidant then of course she is. Their primary concern is to protect themselves. Even if it hurts them to hurt us, they instinctively care about themselves more. That is what makes avoidant, avoidant. I personally believe that Avoidant is just the large umbrella for the majority of sub-problems, personality disorders like NPD, BPD, AvPD, etc. Humans are naturally social creatures that need human contact. Being avoidant means there is higher incidence that there's something fractured there. So I think when we deal with them we need to understand this fundamental difference. Not all, but I think a higher percentage than other attachment types. |
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Post by stavs on Dec 20, 2017 19:30:24 GMT
I have to say you bring up a very interesting point and something I've not thought about before so maybe this will be helpful to other APs. My FA/DA would never reciprocate. I always was a listening ear when he needed it but when I was in distress it seemed like he disappeared. I never verbalized my needs but would stew and steam and what felt like neglect to me. Finally last week I opened up to him about how I felt abandoned when I was stressed but I was always there when he was. I do grant that he made time to hear me out and tried to comfort me. It felt hollow and forced on his end but he did try. But I cut him off as he tried, feeling bad that it wasn't "natural" for him and I went no contact. I realize now I didn't even give him an opportunity to settle into that role. It's something to think about. Obviously this doesn't come naturally for FA. That are very inwardly focused. I think we have a knee jerk reaction and can smell when they're trying, which to us may feel fake but be an earnest attempt on their part. I'm just going to throw out another possibility. The unnatural feeling of it could be nervousness. With my ex AP, it seemed that no matter what I said or did in those times, it was never the right thing. As with any person, avoidants want to please their partner, but it never seems to be enough. I will become nervous/unconfortable sometimes in those situation, because I'm dreading the response of I said the wrong thing or I didn't do enough. I never make her feel like she didn’t do enough. I don’t think it’s nerves. She’s definitely scared that I’m going to leave. I’m convinced of it. I |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 19:38:14 GMT
I often find myself saying she’s selfish. 😕 If she is avoidant then of course she is. Their primary concern is to protect themselves. Even if it hurts them to hurt us, they instinctively care about themselves more. That is what makes avoidant, avoidant. I personally believe that Avoidant is just the large umbrella for the majority of sub-problems, personality disorders like NPD, BPD, AvPD, etc. Humans are naturally social creatures that need human contact. Being avoidant means there is higher incidence that there's something fractured there. So I think when we deal with them we need to understand this fundamental difference. Such a blanket statement and selfishness is not an avoidant trait. I find many APs to be extremely selfish. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 19:40:21 GMT
I'm just going to throw out another possibility. The unnatural feeling of it could be nervousness. With my ex AP, it seemed that no matter what I said or did in those times, it was never the right thing. As with any person, avoidants want to please their partner, but it never seems to be enough. I will become nervous/unconfortable sometimes in those situation, because I'm dreading the response of I said the wrong thing or I didn't do enough. I never make her feel like she didn’t do enough. I don’t think it’s nerves. She’s definitely scared that I’m going to leave. I’m convinced of it. I I am not saying you do or that is even the case in your situation. I just know that I have had that experience with APs that I have dated in the past and sometimes carry that into other relationships. |
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Post by flowerpoww on Dec 20, 2017 19:45:48 GMT
If she is avoidant then of course she is. Their primary concern is to protect themselves. Even if it hurts them to hurt us, they instinctively care about themselves more. That is what makes avoidant, avoidant. I personally believe that Avoidant is just the large umbrella for the majority of sub-problems, personality disorders like NPD, BPD, AvPD, etc. Humans are naturally social creatures that need human contact. Being avoidant means there is higher incidence that there's something fractured there. So I think when we deal with them we need to understand this fundamental difference. Such a blanket statement and selfishness is not an avoidant trait. I find many APs to be extremely selfish. Is it not true that a primary relational concern for avoidants is to protect themselves from outward harm and focus inward? Selfish in this context is not meant to take on the colloquial negative connotation but just a fact - they look out for themselves first. As an AP I would love to be more selfish in that respect. I think many of us would say that it seems Avoidants have it easier in some aspects because they can look out for themselves first and foremost. It's all about context. On the same note, you declare APs to be "extremely selfish". Again, it's about context. |
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Post by yasmin on Dec 20, 2017 20:04:32 GMT
Isn't the primary relational concern for an AP also to protect themselves though? By getting what they need to feel better from the other person (even if the person doesn't want to give it?). It's actually quite hard not to be at least a bit selfish in most relationships, it's mostly about what you give to each other and how you make each other feel (except maybe with your kids).
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I feel like her needs are being more than met, it's poor Stavs who's needs are at the bottom of the pile here.