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Post by flowerpoww on Dec 20, 2017 20:10:27 GMT
Isn't the primary relational concern for an AP also to protect themselves though? By getting what they need to feel better from the other person (even if the person doesn't want to give it?). It's actually quite hard not to be at least a bit selfish in most relationships, it's mostly about what you give to each other and how you make each other feel (except maybe with your kids). Technically, this is true and could be true of anyone. If 'selfish' means to be chiefly looking out for one's own interests, then the argument can be made that everyone is selfish. We don't go work for our bosses or give to charity for other people, we do it primarily to sustain ourselves or feel good about ourselves. Yes, ultimately every action can be boiled down a selfish purpose. In that sense, the word really has no meaning when we realize that being selfish is just human nature and imbued in everything. I am specifically referring to relationships and transactions within. APs are focused outward. Secures are focused equally outward and inward. Avoidants are focused inward. Sure, we're all driven by our selfish motivations just for the sake of living, but in this context it can be fairly observed that avoidants are more 'selfish'. It really isn't meant to be a derogatory or blanket statement, but if we can't generalize then there's no use to categorize us into 4 attachment styles, either. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 20:15:04 GMT
Such a blanket statement and selfishness is not an avoidant trait. I find many APs to be extremely selfish. Is it not true that a primary relational concern for avoidants is to protect themselves from outward harm and focus inward? Selfish in this context is not meant to take on the colloquial negative connotation but just a fact - they look out for themselves first. As an AP I would love to be more selfish in that respect. I think many of us would say that it seems Avoidants have it easier in some aspects because they can look out for themselves first and foremost. It's all about context. On the same note, you declare APs to be "extremely selfish". Again, it's about context. I did not make the same assertion you did. I said many APs, not all, as yours seems to read. I have always asserted that people are individuals and an attachment style does not always mean an individual is this or that trait. To answer your question, no, my primary relational concern is not to protect myself and focus inward. Yes, I have boundaries, but it doesn't mean I look out for myself first always. I have a child and she comes first always. I think an avoidant will appear this way to an AP a lot of the time, because the boundaries are different. With my current bf, he doesn't think I'm selfish at all. I am the only person he confides in and he respects my advice when he asks for it. He says my willingness to give others my time and attention is very unselfish. Our boundaries are more in line. Maybe I see some APs as selfish, due to this issue, I am not sure. The ones I dated were never able to share my time/attention with others.Perhaps that was a boundary issue too, I don't know. I am not sure what you mean by focusing inward. If that means that I am self reliant, don't need reassurance and don't need others to validate me. Then yes. |
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Post by yasmin on Dec 20, 2017 20:18:12 GMT
I was just reading on another thread a couple of DAs discussing being smothered by APs. There was talk of their partner needing constant reassurance, false accusations, constant questioning, not letting their partner have time or nights out with friends, starting arguments about their partners reasonable needs for space - so this is what I meant. All those behaviors on the surface to the AP might seem like they are wanting closeness or intimacy with their partner, but really it's a pretty dysfunctional demand for something that the other person is really unhappy about. So this is what I mean by both being selfish. Basically if you do stuff to make yourself feel good or soothed when it's harmful to the other party then you're being selfish.
I just dated an FA and he was unbelievably selfish. Everything was about him, his timetable, his needs, his fears. Everything he dis was designed to get what he wanted when he wanted and to run when it got uncomfortable and he didn't care about anyone but himself. I was less overtly selfish, but ultimately I still wanted him to like me, to be consistent, to choose the relationship - so it's difficult to see where that line is for everybody.
I bet a real selfless relationship is more likely to be between two secure people because neither one is motivated by fear that surplants other things.
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Post by flowerpoww on Dec 20, 2017 20:25:32 GMT
Is it not true that a primary relational concern for avoidants is to protect themselves from outward harm and focus inward? Selfish in this context is not meant to take on the colloquial negative connotation but just a fact - they look out for themselves first. As an AP I would love to be more selfish in that respect. I think many of us would say that it seems Avoidants have it easier in some aspects because they can look out for themselves first and foremost. It's all about context. On the same note, you declare APs to be "extremely selfish". Again, it's about context. I did not make the same assertion you did. I said many APs, not all, as yours seems to read. I have always asserted that people are individuals and an attachment style does not always mean an individual is this or that trait. To answer your question, no, my primary relational concern is not to protect myself and focus inward. Yes, I have boundaries, but it doesn't mean I look out for myself first always. I have a child and she comes first always. I think an avoidant will appear this way to an AP a lot of the time, because the boundaries are different. With my current bf, he doesn't think I'm selfish at all. I am the only person he confides in and he respects my advice when he asks for it. He says my willingness to give others my time and attention is very unselfish. Our boundaries are more in line. Maybe I see some APs as selfish, due to this issue, I am not sure. The ones I dated were never able to share my time/attention with others.Perhaps that was a boundary issue too, I don't know. I am not sure what you mean by focusing inward. If that means that I am self reliant, don't need reassurance and don't need others to validate me. Then yes. I apologize if you took anything directly offensive from my statements. I do not mean "All Avoidants", or "All..." anything from anything I say. All statements are understood to be generalizations when I read things that put people into categories. And I do believe, at least from the perspective of many APs and Secures, that Avoidants seem to be more focused on themselves than other people compared to other categories. That may not be an objective statement and I totally understand that Avoidant people may experience it differently. I'm grateful for the opportunity hear your and others here give their perspective here and elsewhere on the internet to gain a new understanding on the matter. As you know, most literature and description of types are not written by FA or DA, so those voices are pretty rare. Seeing the sheer number of AP compared to Avoidant on any forum, including this one, should lend credence to the fact that many APs are highly into analyzing other people, seeking answers, "strategizing", trying to guess or anticipate or deal with others' actions and not so much ourselves. Many APs are focused on others at the expense of our own mental health. I will use another word in the future to describe it, as I see that 'selfish' may be seen as offensive and I don't mean it in a negative sense at all. Moreso in a clinical sense. |
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Post by stavs on Dec 20, 2017 21:44:45 GMT
Such a blanket statement and selfishness is not an avoidant trait. I find many APs to be extremely selfish. Is it not true that a primary relational concern for avoidants is to protect themselves from outward harm and focus inward? Selfish in this context is not meant to take on the colloquial negative connotation but just a fact - they look out for themselves first. As an AP I would love to be more selfish in that respect. I think many of us would say that it seems Avoidants have it easier in some aspects because they can look out for themselves first and foremost. It's all about context. On the same note, you declare APs to be "extremely selfish". Again, it's about context. I would love to be more selfish that way. I wish I had it in me to protect myself and put me first, but I cant. Her happiness means the world to me. Listening to her everyday talk about all the stress from work, and how much she misses living in her old town, etc, I feel so bad for her. I try to make her as happy as possible. I'm a giver and its hard to stop that. Its a struggle though it really is. I love her to death and want it to work, but part of me says she will never give me what i want and need (she says that too). I'm a hopeless romantic and I feel like if I just keep at it that she will change and things will improve. I'm probabluy dreaming, but I am also not a quitter either. |
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 20, 2017 21:53:46 GMT
Is it not true that a primary relational concern for avoidants is to protect themselves from outward harm and focus inward? Selfish in this context is not meant to take on the colloquial negative connotation but just a fact - they look out for themselves first. As an AP I would love to be more selfish in that respect. I think many of us would say that it seems Avoidants have it easier in some aspects because they can look out for themselves first and foremost. It's all about context. On the same note, you declare APs to be "extremely selfish". Again, it's about context. I would love to be more selfish that way. I wish I had it in me to protect myself and put me first, but I cant. Her happiness means the world to me. Listening to her everyday talk about all the stress from work, and how much she misses living in her old town, etc, I feel so bad for her. I try to make her as happy as possible. I'm a giver and its hard to stop that. Its a struggle though it really is. I love her to death and want it to work, but part of me says she will never give me what i want and need (she says that too). I'm a hopeless romantic and I feel like if I just keep at it that she will change and things will improve. I'm probabluy dreaming, but I am also not a quitter either. Hey Stavs...it also is likely your attachment style talking to you. Think back about your interactions with your parents and see if having "hope" that they would change and become more loving is a tape from your childhood. I know it is in mine. The thing is..we bring these tapes forward thinking these old ways of dealing with our parents will work in our adult relationships...and when they don't...that is when we get a bit resentful because we gave and we perceive that the other person did not. What I am beginning to understand is that my giving comes with a LOT of pressure and expectations that I haven't verbalized to my partner because I fear him leaving me/abandoning me. Just take a minute and see if you relate. |
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Post by stavs on Dec 20, 2017 22:08:38 GMT
I would love to be more selfish that way. I wish I had it in me to protect myself and put me first, but I cant. Her happiness means the world to me. Listening to her everyday talk about all the stress from work, and how much she misses living in her old town, etc, I feel so bad for her. I try to make her as happy as possible. I'm a giver and its hard to stop that. Its a struggle though it really is. I love her to death and want it to work, but part of me says she will never give me what i want and need (she says that too). I'm a hopeless romantic and I feel like if I just keep at it that she will change and things will improve. I'm probabluy dreaming, but I am also not a quitter either. Hey Stavs...it also is likely your attachment style talking to you. Think back about your interactions with your parents and see if having "hope" that they would change and become more loving is a tape from your childhood. I know it is in mine. The thing is..we bring these tapes forward thinking these old ways of dealing with our parents will work in our adult relationships...and when they don't...that is when we get a bit resentful because we gave and we perceive that the other person did not. What I am beginning to understand is that my giving comes with a LOT of pressure and expectations that I haven't verbalized to my partner because I fear him leaving me/abandoning me. Just take a minute and see if you relate. Defionitely get what you are saying here. My biggest fear is that i would lose her and I'm confident that is driving a lot of my own internal issues. Regardless though, even if I "fix" myself, that doesn't really change her any and I would suspect that I would end up leaving her to find somethign more in tune with my wants and needs, regardless of my love for her. |
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Post by stavs on Dec 20, 2017 22:14:56 GMT
Just as a side note, here’s another question. If you loved someone, wouldn’t you want to spend time with them? This is another thing I struggle with. Why be in a relationship if you aren’t going to TRY to spend time with that person?
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 20, 2017 22:16:28 GMT
Hey Stavs...it also is likely your attachment style talking to you. Think back about your interactions with your parents and see if having "hope" that they would change and become more loving is a tape from your childhood. I know it is in mine. The thing is..we bring these tapes forward thinking these old ways of dealing with our parents will work in our adult relationships...and when they don't...that is when we get a bit resentful because we gave and we perceive that the other person did not. What I am beginning to understand is that my giving comes with a LOT of pressure and expectations that I haven't verbalized to my partner because I fear him leaving me/abandoning me. Just take a minute and see if you relate. Defionitely get what you are saying here. My biggest fear is that i would lose her and I'm confident that is driving a lot of my own internal issues. Regardless though, even if I "fix" myself, that doesn't really change her any and I would suspect that I would end up leaving her to find somethign more in tune with my wants and needs, regardless of my love for her. It isn't a matter of "fixing".… it is a tuning yourself to the real source of your wounding so that you can grow. Even if she changed....she cannot be your only source for addressing your AP attachment...just like you cannot be her only source for addressing her FA attachment. Believe me...I relate to you on many levels and I understand that your heart is in a caring place for her. |
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Post by stavs on Dec 20, 2017 22:29:29 GMT
Defionitely get what you are saying here. My biggest fear is that i would lose her and I'm confident that is driving a lot of my own internal issues. Regardless though, even if I "fix" myself, that doesn't really change her any and I would suspect that I would end up leaving her to find somethign more in tune with my wants and needs, regardless of my love for her. It isn't a matter of "fixing".… it is a tuning yourself to the real source of your wounding so that you can grow. Even if she changed....she cannot be your only source for addressing your AP attachment...just like you cannot be her only source for addressing her FA attachment. Believe me...I relate to you on many levels and I understand that your heart is in a caring place for her. All I know is I'm miserable. LOL. Hopefully therapy helps. |
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Post by yasmin on Dec 20, 2017 22:30:17 GMT
Just as a side note, here’s another question. If you loved someone, wouldn’t you want to spend time with them? This is another thing I struggle with. Why be in a relationship if you aren’t going to TRY to spend time with that person? If someone's avoidant then they might not follow that same need. Or not consistently anyway. They maybe experience it a totally different way, of liking it and then needing to escape. They might even avoid someone more because they loved them and find it easier to spend time with people where their emotions were less intense or where there was less expectation or less intimacy. It makes it very confusing because you can't tell if they are avoiding you because they don't like / love you or because they do  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 22:43:46 GMT
It isn't a matter of "fixing".… it is a tuning yourself to the real source of your wounding so that you can grow. Even if she changed....she cannot be your only source for addressing your AP attachment...just like you cannot be her only source for addressing her FA attachment. Believe me...I relate to you on many levels and I understand that your heart is in a caring place for her. All I know is I'm miserable. LOL. Hopefully therapy helps. I think you know what the answer is here. A relationship should make you happy and not miserable. It sounds like you both care for each other, but mistrusts the care of the other. I think a lot of people think about loving the other person and not so much about their capacity to receive love. Both are equally important. |
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Post by stavs on Dec 22, 2017 17:53:45 GMT
So new development. Met up with my FA on Wednesday and told her my mom wants to meet her since she is visiting. She hesitated and said she’d do it. She messaged me today asking to go to the zoo tonight and suggested I bring my mother. Also we’re meeting at the FAs house which is pretty big since she has such anxiety about things like that. I really don’t wa t to give up on this woman and wish I could convince her to seek help. I’m going to tell her tomorrow that I’m in therapy to handle my issues and see what she says. I think I need to just drum up more patience.
Today was rough until she texted me. I had so much stress from work and the relationship but she eased some of it. Hoping my first therapy session today eases more.
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Post by yasmin on Dec 22, 2017 17:59:12 GMT
That's wonderful Stavs!! It sounds like she's making an effort and meeting mother's is always a big deal so it's great that she's willing. I hope it all goes really well!!
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Post by stavs on Dec 22, 2017 18:25:13 GMT
That's wonderful Stavs!! It sounds like she's making an effort and meeting mother's is always a big deal so it's great that she's willing. I hope it all goes really well!! My two most important women bashing me all night - should be fun!! 😂 |
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