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Post by cherrycola on Aug 8, 2024 21:04:19 GMT
Or maybe I don't. The guy in question my coach predicted likely wouldn't respond to my text or would but would drop the ball, etc. I told her it was on me since I sent him "mixed signals" So I tried again - texted him after about a month, he clicked on me on the online dating site (I got notification) and then wrote me back. But his texts seem to lack enthusiasm? He asks questions, but seems more robotic. So then he said, since you have time off next week, do you want to meet up? And since I'm largely following my coach's advice right now 1) Because I trust her 2) it's nice to have an approach rather than constantly guessing and doubting -- I went ahead and kept it short and light/cheerful (as she says) and said, "Sure that would be great." I'm also letting him do the work 1) So that I don't end up doing it all reflexively like I tend to do with folks who are more ambivalent than me. 2) My coach thinks he's not going to do it and I want to see if she's right! lol. So today is Wednesday and Monday early evening he wrote about next week and I said sure that would be great, and I've heard nothing back. I know it would have made some degree of sense for me to pick a day or a place/time but I think he can handle that (well, we'll see). Or even just respond with "Great, what day is good for you." Or "Where would you want to meet?" Of course there is still time. I'm doing "low-investment" (other than taking time to learn from these things). There seems to be some mind reading going on here. "Lacks enthusiasm" how do you know this? If I get busy or distracted you could say the same thing about me. The very fact I am replying to people sometimes is a sign of enthusiasm because when I am busy anyone who isn't a priority is going to fall off completely. Why is the ball in his count if you were the one previously sending him mixed signals? If that is the case then it is "on you" to be clear and consistent now. I would say all you are doing is playing games and continuing to send him mixed / wishy-washy signals. A self-fulfilling prophecy. Do YOUR messages have "enthusiasm"? I'm not saying to do all the work, but I am also saying, maybe he is not putting in effort now because he sees you as a flake? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2024 22:21:48 GMT
Suggestion only...
When communicating think of ping pong, back and forth, keep it going.
Him: "Want to get together next week?"
You: "That would be great!"
(I agree he's not real motivated if he didn't follow up with a suggested plan, but your response just ends right there too...)
VS:
Him: "Want to get together next week?"
You: "Sure, what do you have in mind? I'm available xyz..."
You're inviting a response with a question and meeting him half way.
Just for future reference. In my opinion arranging a date shouldn't be any more complicated or suspenseful than arranging any other kind of appointment or time commitment. It needn't be this inefficient or half assed either way?
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Post by seeking on Aug 8, 2024 22:26:13 GMT
Or maybe I don't. The guy in question my coach predicted likely wouldn't respond to my text or would but would drop the ball, etc. I told her it was on me since I sent him "mixed signals" So I tried again - texted him after about a month, he clicked on me on the online dating site (I got notification) and then wrote me back. But his texts seem to lack enthusiasm? He asks questions, but seems more robotic. So then he said, since you have time off next week, do you want to meet up? And since I'm largely following my coach's advice right now 1) Because I trust her 2) it's nice to have an approach rather than constantly guessing and doubting -- I went ahead and kept it short and light/cheerful (as she says) and said, "Sure that would be great." I'm also letting him do the work 1) So that I don't end up doing it all reflexively like I tend to do with folks who are more ambivalent than me. 2) My coach thinks he's not going to do it and I want to see if she's right! lol. So today is Wednesday and Monday early evening he wrote about next week and I said sure that would be great, and I've heard nothing back. I know it would have made some degree of sense for me to pick a day or a place/time but I think he can handle that (well, we'll see). Or even just respond with "Great, what day is good for you." Or "Where would you want to meet?" Of course there is still time. I'm doing "low-investment" (other than taking time to learn from these things). There seems to be some mind reading going on here. "Lacks enthusiasm" how do you know this? If I get busy or distracted you could say the same thing about me. The very fact I am replying to people sometimes is a sign of enthusiasm because when I am busy anyone who isn't a priority is going to fall off completely. Why is the ball in his count if you were the one previously sending him mixed signals? If that is the case then it is "on you" to be clear and consistent now. I would say all you are doing is playing games and continuing to send him mixed / wishy-washy signals. A self-fulfilling prophecy. Do YOUR messages have "enthusiasm"? I'm not saying to do all the work, but I am also saying, maybe he is not putting in effort now because he sees you as a flake? Uh, I'm just gonna come out and say - if it isn't already obvious - I don't know what I'm doing, so please don't read into things. I'm working off what my coach is telling me. She's not "right" - per se but she is married and had experienced a lot of what I go through. She feels like based on past behavior, his messages, etc, it's not all me on the ambivalent front. She thinks he is too. I don't know if that can work - two ambivalents. Maybe? At any rate, I just reached back out! So we'll see. |
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Post by seeking on Aug 8, 2024 22:30:42 GMT
Suggestion only... When communicating think of ping pong, back and forth, keep it going. Him: "Want to get together next week?" You: "That would be great!" (I agree he's not real motivated if he didn't follow up with a suggested plan, but your response just ends right there too...) VS: Him: "Want to get together next week?" You: "Sure, what do you have in mind? I'm available xyz..." You're inviting a response with a question and meeting him half way. Just for future reference. In my opinion arranging a date shouldn't be any more complicated or suspenseful than arranging any other kind of appointment or time commitment. It needn't be this inefficient or half assed either way? I think I'm working off my coaches rather more "extreme" theories about men, etc. and her being aware of my patterns (to over function, find avoidant men and chase or "yearn") etc. So I'm clumsily trying to avoid all that and follow her lead. AND, I agree here. I could have responded with "Sure, that would be great. What are some good days?" Or something like that. I think I'm trying to give him a way to take the lead a little and he's not. But I have no problem meeting halfway. I doubt my coach would agree, but again she has very specific traditional male/female views on things - and while I'm okay with that, it's definitely made things more challenging in an already challenging arena for me! But I agree with the appointment thing. Just get to the first date and see. I have a feeling this guy and I will get along and that's a good start. But whether it can go further, I don't know yet. So that's that. |
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Post by seeking on Aug 8, 2024 22:37:08 GMT
So, update. I wrote him to see if he could chat (because I have rare time without my daughter for a couple hours) (not that I shared that part) and I said if not then maybe tomorrow or this weekend. He responded in about 15 mins or less that he is driving but we can talk tomorrow and then added a little extra (about the weather, etc - which felt warm).  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2024 22:46:47 GMT
I'm of the mind that enthusiasm isn't important in the online meet.... simply because if it's there, it's based on photos and bunch of info in a profile. The actual experience of the person is IN PERSON. Photos can be old, info can be just the shiny stuff that may or may not be real or relevant, etc.
All you need for a first meet up arrangement is basic interest in meeting up, save any and all emotions for the actual experience of getting to know someone.
It's literally just an introduction. Nothing means anything until you can see if
1) communication is clear and mature and actually accomplishes a plan for a first meet
2) the meet happens
3) there's a reason to meet a second time and both people are interested in doing so.
Don't get me wrong, I hated dating and sucked at it but those were guidelines I developed throughout the process. I learned all the shit and how to avoid it at least.
A reminder about enthusiasm
... you remember my story in which I turned my BF down twice online and then ran into him IRL... still wasn't interested at first and here we are together for 4 years plus. What's more important is just following through and seeing what arises over time, naturally. Or not.
But at the very least, ant communication should be with a goal in mind... not just typing words into the ether and wondering what next, on either side YKWIM?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2024 22:48:19 GMT
So, update. I wrote him to see if he could chat (because I have rare time without my daughter for a couple hours) (not that I shared that part) and I said if not then maybe tomorrow or this weekend. He responded in about 15 mins or less that he is driving but we can talk tomorrow and then added a little extra (about the weather, etc - which felt warm). Believe it or not, I am a big fan of direct and assertive communication so great job. (The believe it or not was tongue in cheek lol) |
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Post by seeking on Aug 8, 2024 23:16:34 GMT
A reminder about enthusiasm ... you remember my story in which I turned my BF down twice online and then ran into him IRL... still wasn't interested at first and here we are together for 4 years plus. What's more important is just following through and seeing what arises over time, naturally. Or not. But at the very least, ant communication should be with a goal in mind... not just typing words into the ether and wondering what next, on either side YKWIM? Thanks for all this. And I agree. I ended up overriding my coach's advice and just reaching out to him not as an act of chasing or me being the one persuing or because I think he's "just not that into me" but because I have a hunch there could be something more here and I want to see - in person, and know that I won't really know until we at least talk and meet and then like you said see where that goes. And, plus, I figured, I could give him a little more to work with ... I reminded myself tonight he did like me first online - and I liked him back, then he wrote me, and then after maybe a lengthier period of email exchanges then I would like, he gave me his number, then when I gave him mine, he texted - then my mixed messages -- and then he responded to my clearer message I sent a month later (this past week) and then he asked to meet. So he's still moving things forward. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2024 23:19:34 GMT
Yeah idk how much experience she has with online dating but it's nothing at all like old fashioned courtship. Guys regularly get burned too. They shouldn't be held to a role. The beginning is just business in my opinion because you've never even met!!
Truly.. internet "dating" is a misnomer. You pick a person out of a catalog and reserve judgement until you meet in person. Guys don't have it any easier. They get lied to, stood up, women misrepresent themselves. Oh the stories I've heard from the male perspective... I think it's simply kind and reasonable to shoulder the burden together in order to get to a first meet.
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Post by seeking on Aug 13, 2024 19:18:12 GMT
Wow do things get complicated. It's no wonder why I "don't bother." This is freaking insane!
I really need to start a separate post about my family, though I don't. But it doesn't help that I'm feeling really raw over family drama.
Other than that, I have enough anxiety about getting to a date, getting on a date, etc. and where my mom is usually always around, in fact calls my daughter sometimes daily to announce that she is "bored," suddenly when I needed her on Wed and just wanted to confirm with this guy and then get through the next 48 hours, it got SUPER complicated. Down to me having to talk to my dad and listen to his dramatic sagas. I ended up with a migraine. My mom can't use her car. They couldn't tell me all this til today. So I had to put everything on hold, which made me feel even more vulnerable and open to rejection.... (that's just me, no one else's stuff but mine). And then basically have to hunt down my parents this morning to see if I can finally get an answer, only to find out they could maybe due Thursday (my mom, that is). I do have one child care provider (and one maybe) but that person wasn't available -- ugh. Wow.
So I'm exhausted. Just really exhausted. I wrote him to say "Hey, blah blah blah and can you do Thursday instead of Wed, and blah blah." And he didn't write back for hours and my head has just been spinning!
In the meantime, I talked to original guy I ran away from who is sending me some mixed business here -- and I'm not imagining it. My coach is not down with it. "He's taken, and you need to stay away from unavailable men." Or "tell him you're free for coffee if things change with her." So I had a phone convo with him this morning. I was too much of a mess to do video and he and I haven't talked in over a year. The connection for me is instant (and I'm sure more-so due to his unavailable status -- "less of a threat" says my friend who gets it). I just couldn't believe I let this guy go and am really helpless to my own muck, much like an addict. Powerless, as they say. It was an emotional conversation for me, when we got to the topic of his girlfriend who he called by her first name, he expressed his uncertainty. He's not moving to the other side of the country where she lives. That was certain. And she's not religious (he and I are) and that's important to him. Even though they are navigating that, I think he's pretty clear she's not converting. He said, "I don't know how I got here" meaning the whole thing from his divorce to this ... all of it. I heard in him something I recognize in myself -- just a like "WTF" sense of it all. But he's into her. She's fascinating and I can see her charm and he's enjoying himself, but he's marriage minded, and I'm not seeing him going in that direction with her.
He asked to come see me in September. He wrote me an email the minute we hung up. He followed me on Instagram.
I'm overwhelmed.
But staying the course. The guy wrote back and offered the following weekend if this week isn't looking good. I could push for tomorrow, but honestly I'm feeling raw and could use the extra time (more avoidance). I'd love to have my hair done, be a bit more rested and grounded, though, because honestly it's been a ROUGH few days.
And I'm formulating what to say to "A" (and to the current date guy).
That's all that's fit to print at the moment. Thanks for the ongoing support.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2024 3:20:48 GMT
What in the world are you doing engaging with a man who has a girlfriend, from over a year ago, just as you're trying to get to a first date with this other guy? Are you addicted to chaos and drama? I'm not being snide... I'm sincerely asking do you distract yourself from anxiety by doing crazy stuff like chatting up a guy who is into someone else? What are you doing here? Do you think you're ready to do healthy, available dating or are you just playing games? I thought it was harsh when cherrycola said it looked like you were playing games but now it totally looks like that's what you're doing. Not about the scheduling difficulty... about this thing with a taken man.
You used to go on about emotional intelligence and I have to say I'm not seeing it. You're doing the same stuff unaware insecure attachers do, right? And it sounds like you're rationalizing it. And then complaining about how crazy it all is. You're making it crazy. You could have a boundary but it's like you're just succumbing to some kind of addiction, like you said. Where's your sense of responsibility to yourself to not keep up the insanity?
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Post by alexandra on Aug 14, 2024 4:36:55 GMT
I'd also like to throw in there that guy from a year ago isn't emotionally available based on what you said he said. Not because he's seeing someone else, but because of what he's saying about her and words and actions not lining up. If you're serious about marriage and you're not 20 years old, you don't date someone with a bunch of dealbreakers for you just because it's fun, and then tell another woman you were once interested in that you're one foot in one foot out with that woman. So he was never secure to begin with either.
Like I said, neither of these guys sound like your guy. If you still want to meet the second guy just for the experience and practice so that you can get used to first dates not seeming as scary then do it, but don't over-invest in him. It will just be a date and helpful to you in working out your dating issues, rather than that one needing to go anywhere.
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Post by seeking on Aug 14, 2024 9:40:13 GMT
What in the world are you doing engaging with a man who has a girlfriend, from over a year ago, just as you're trying to get to a first date with this other guy? Are you addicted to chaos and drama? I'm not being snide... I'm sincerely asking do you distract yourself from anxiety by doing crazy stuff like chatting up a guy who is into someone else? What are you doing here? Do you think you're ready to do healthy, available dating or are you just playing games? I thought it was harsh when cherrycola said it looked like you were playing games but now it totally looks like that's what you're doing. Not about the scheduling difficulty... about this thing with a taken man. You used to go on about emotional intelligence and I have to say I'm not seeing it. You're doing the same stuff unaware insecure attachers do, right? And it sounds like you're rationalizing it. And then complaining about how crazy it all is. You're making it crazy. You could have a boundary but it's like you're just succumbing to some kind of addiction, like you said. Where's your sense of responsibility to yourself to not keep up the insanity? I guess it looks this way but this whole thing started before I got back in contact with the date guy. And since I'm working with a coach and going through things systematically (i.e., there was a guy online that we were talking about as well) -- I have off this week and it just kind of fell on yesterday when I planned to talk to A to investigate more about his situation - rather than mind-reading and guessing. But, no, I'm definitely not playing games. I had a migraine from all of this and I think the anxiety is due from past trauma. Mentally I'm able to talk myself through things, but it's like my body is tensing and clenching and freaking out. The anxiety is about rejection. I'm trying to learn more about it, and I'm also dealing with a big underlying trigger around my sister the past two weeks and just feeling overall raw. That, on top of stuff with my parents, and then the new guy and my fears of rejection (about my current weight or just not feeling particularly confident) have me pretty messed up at the moment. I'm not committed to the date guy. So I don't see how it would be a game. My intention was to talk to A to see where he stood with his person. He's been liking every one of my posts on Facebook, following me on Instagram all of a sudden, her photo on FB showed her with another guy (who was maybe just a friend, IDK), and so I was seeing where he was at. I think it would be different if date guy and I were moving along or a relationship was starting and I suddenly started talking to A again, but that's not the case. That's not to say I'm not an insecure attacher! I definitely still am. But I think there's some awareness here, just a lot of overwhelm and triggers that I'm trying to work with. As far as me making it crazy, I am engaging with men and it's hard. My coach wanted me to talk to this guy who was writing me and I had a hard no around it, and then lost trust in myself, wrote to him more, and figured out he worked very part time and like lives with his mom (granted, as a caretaker). All along, I could have trusted my instinct (I told her he sounded very dysregulated and I wasn't interested). So I'm pretty sure that's me having boundaries against dysregulated men. With A, I trusted my instinct that something was not quite right with the GF, and figured it was worth investigating if they were together. My coach said, if he's not or he's available again, you better be sure you can follow up with moving things forward, then. And I wasn't at that point - I just wanted to see if he was really back on the market or not. (He's not). And the whole situation with the date, the fact that I couldn't get child care made me feel even more vulnerable and open to rejection by having it be so complicated (out of my control) -- he's been understanding and we're meeting next weekend -- despite that being the weekend of a family birthday party I'm hosting, I'm making the effort to get out and meet and appreciate his understanding. So please tell me where I'm making things crazy or what I can do differently so that I can learn from it rather than just accusing me of crazy making and game playing since that is legitimately not my intention. It would help me to know what to do different from above. |
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Post by seeking on Aug 14, 2024 9:52:33 GMT
I'd also like to throw in there that guy from a year ago isn't emotionally available based on what you said he said. Not because he's seeing someone else, but because of what he's saying about her and words and actions not lining up. If you're serious about marriage and you're not 20 years old, you don't date someone with a bunch of dealbreakers for you just because it's fun, and then tell another woman you were once interested in that you're one foot in one foot out with that woman. So he was never secure to begin with either. Like I said, neither of these guys sound like your guy. If you still want to meet the second guy just for the experience and practice so that you can get used to first dates not seeming as scary then do it, but don't over-invest in him. It will just be a date and helpful to you in working out your dating issues, rather than that one needing to go anywhere. A few things. Thanks for saying this about A. I thought the same thing, but I override my own thinking -- and I don't know WHY I do this or if that really matters -- but I give A a lot of credit because he was married for 25 years, is professional, has his life together (at least in other ways), intelligent, calm, and I somehow make that mean he "knows what he's doing" and since I clearly don't, blah blah. But I immediately thought, what the heck is he doing then? He's not moving across the country, he's commenting on her not being religious and that being a problem, and he's talking to me and asking me to meet. And I can override it all and go, "Oh, he's a nice guy. He wouldn't send mixed messages. He's just trying to be friends." But the truth is, he sounds super mixed up. And if I can just know that, and hang on to that reality rather than glossing it over it with something else, I think I can behave accordingly. I'm not sure I recall you saying that the date guy doesn't sound like my guy. I can go back and look. But, yes, that's where I'd gotten - this is practice. This is showing me a lot about where I am and what things I still clearly need work on. I told a friend last night that I am more okay with the moving toward relationship part of things -- even though that's super uncomfortable as well, it's nothing like the initial date where I just feel sized up and it seems to bring up too much in me. It's family stuff, and my coach has named that, but it doesn't make it any easier to get over it. And it's been hard to see how much it is still present, yet I do have way more awareness of it than I ever have. But I'm glad I'm getting things "down" more and putting together a few more wardrobe pieces and more motivated to walk every day and eat right and notice where I default to apologizing verus just confidently saying things, etc. |
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 14, 2024 11:29:39 GMT
Honestly…..what you are going through is why I decided to simply embrace my singleness and learn to enjoy being on my own. Nothing against wanting to be married but I have decided to finally address layers and layers of internal muck that has me still attracted to the wrong guy.
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