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Post by tnr9 on Jan 10, 2018 4:40:52 GMT
It was sad and exhausting. Unfortunately, I allowed it. I accepted it. I was trapped in the AP/DA cycle with her and didn't even see it for what it was. Now, being aware, and changing my attachment style to secure (through much determination), I'm not even thinking about her that much. The strange thing that I noticed is that I have become aware that my thoughts about her have changed. I am no longer desperate to contact her like the old days. Rather I'm enjoying the break so that I can concentrate on things I enjoy like writing my new novel and working on a screenplay. I'm also really enjoying get close with friends of the opposite gender who are quite wonderful people. I was very careful of that kind of thing previously because my DA was extremely jealous. Now...oh well At this point, if she wanted to come back, I'm not sure I want to deal with the aloofness. Like I said in another thread... It's great when she's into it. But now that I'm looking at things differently, I'm not so sure. Wow...it is great that you see value in the time apart and no longer have your attachment system go into overdrive. There are trade offs with every relationship and as long as it works for both of you...great. Completely unrelated... I find it so interesting that the majority of men on this site are either AP or Secure whereas, we have women who post from all the attachment styles.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 16:21:28 GMT
When she begins to go into her Avoidant stage it could be one of several scenarios. At times she will begin by slowly choking off communication. Typically she lessens the length of her responses(one word replies via text), as well as removing the depth and/or warmer, more loving tone. Her texts come across as sounding cold and strictly informational. This will persist over several days until I ask her if anything is troubling her, at such pint she would break up with me. Other times it’s as if she just fades away. Whereas she will be communicating with messages of warmth and love in the morning, then by evening, she is barely responding. Still other times, she will be in a total immersed state of love and expressing it in actions and words only to disappear without so much as a warning or even a word. She would just completely cut all communication with me. However, when she is in the midst of her Avoidant stage (like at this moment) she tells me that she either wants to be alone or the relationship isn’t right for her. She pushes me away and gets annoyed if I try to reason with her or try to convince her otherwise. Doing so will only deepen her conviction and negative view of the relationship. I have learned to respect her point of view and have also learned how to be patient. LOTS OF PATIENCE IS NEEDED my friend! Over the course of years, I have learned to trust that she will come back. She has every time thus far and I have faith that she will again. The longest we were apart without any form of communication was 3 months. I didn’t even acknowledge her birthday, which shook her to the core. She said she drove around the entire day, waiting for my call or a text. When midnight came, she said she wept all night. In short, whenever she went into the Avoidant state, she wanted nothing to do with me. I would have to wait until I thought she was ready to hear from me again and then I would slowly get her to warm up to me once more until she wanted to be together again. I hope this helps Hmm...she sounds like she is "testing" you by pulling away to see if you would get closer to reassure her? That part about crying while waiting for your call sounds like typical FA. I'm unable to directly communicate my needs and desires too, which is exasperating for others. The root cause of this is profound insecurity. I think you need to discern if she is truly "pushing" or "creating space", not for her own need for alone time, but for you to fill that space.
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Post by kelvain on Jan 10, 2018 16:43:45 GMT
That's an interesting point Curious. I shall have to ponder that. Thanks for your insight!
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Post by yasmin on Jan 10, 2018 17:31:00 GMT
Kelvain if this helps "When she begins to go into her Avoidant stage it could be one of several scenarios. At times she will begin by slowly choking off communication. Typically she lessens the length of her responses(one word replies via text), as well as removing the depth and/or warmer, more loving tone. Her texts come across as sounding cold and strictly informational. This will persist over several days until I ask her if anything is troubling her, at such pint she would break up with me"
This above sounds exactly how I behave when I really, really, really like someone and I am feeling rejected in some subtle way or as if they don't like me as much as I like them. My reaction can be to become very cold and dismissive with them. I think this is actually an anxious "testing" behavior rather than an avoidant want because although she is breaking up with you, she is actually also demonstrating her pain without being able to communicate it to you.
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Post by kelvain on Jan 10, 2018 18:27:34 GMT
When she starts distancing, she goes into this "cocoon" and brings her two children with her that is like an impenetrable fortress. It's usually triggered by an external event (her job this last time). So what you are saying is that she actually doesn't want to break up?
Here's the blow by blow of the last several weeks so you can get a better view... I moved in with her in the beginning of October. She wanted it. I did too. We were both very excited about it. Everything was going AWESOME and we were doing things as a couple. She even showed me her mom's ring that she wanted me to give her when I asked her to marry me. During October, my ex wife had to do a period of night shifts so I had to stay over there to be with my kids as they couldn't be left alone (obviously) and they weren't yet ready to stay at my DA's home. My DA accepted this but voiced that she didn't really like it too much even though I spent all available nights at my DA's home. The week before Thanksgiving, she got a job offer for a lot more money. We were very excited and happy. Her present employer counter offered with even more money. (A great problem to have the way I see it!) I was supportive and shared my thoughts. I told her whatever her decision was, I will support it and be happy for her. STRESS HIT. She withdrew, pushed me away. I backed off. Gave her space. She began to treat me like I was an unwelcome visitor in her home. I stayed in the bedroom downstairs the whole time and hung out there, slept there, only showing myself during dinner or if I needed to take care of something. I finally asked her to talk. She agreed. She said that I don't bring her peace when she is stressed out and I am too hyper which gets her nervous. I understood and had already begun to work on "dialing it down" since I know I have a boisterous personality and I can get loud. Being half deaf doesn't help the cause. I acted as if everything was ok after the talk but continued to keep a low profile. She still acted cold, dismissive, uninterested. No hugs, kisses, no communication. She started to distance her family from me, doing things without including me. She then started displaying signs of anger through aggravated/angry gestures and comments directed at things I was associated with such as her fire stick that was freezing up when she tried to watch it. She loved that thing and it was the greatest gift, always thanking me for it. It grew so uncomfortable to be around her that I started staying at my sister's place. After a few days I asked her to have a chat with me. She kept saying there is nothing to talk about. I said that I want to get on the same page and have an understanding before I came back to stay as it is uncomfortable and I would appreciate if we could clear the air. She ignored my request for several days and always claimed to be busy. I stopped by for additional clothes and I told her that I would like to talk when she has the opportunity. She broke it off saying that this relationship isn't right for her or me. I said, ok, that's fine if that's what you want. I then left. I tried reaching out but she is not interested in another try at this point. Typically I would be persistent in chasing her. I have not spoken to her in days. Today is my birthday. She texted me this morning with well wishes. I have yet to respond. I am uncertain if I will respond. I most likely will not which is very atypical for me being that I would previously obsess over her and take any opportunity to communicate. Truth be told: It's two fold whereas 1) She "kicked me to the curb" and so I am giving her exactly what she wanted (lesson for her and free time for exploration for me), and 2) I like that I finally have a small bit of control/power over one tiny aspect after being stonewalled for weeks (even though it's kind of a juvenile of a position).
SIDE NOTE WORTH MENTIONING: I still have to get my stuff out of her house! I was planning for this weekend.
Thoughts???
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 19:18:17 GMT
My take is this: you have somehow communicated something that suggested to her you're not on the same page during the stressful period when she was pondering about her job situation. She didn't want to tell you what exactly it was, but she expected you to ask her about it. You exacerbated it by moving out - that would say to me loud and clear that you're breaking up. It's worse when you keep picking up more and moe of your stuff from her place. When you didn't text her on her birthday that was a big let down. She texted you on your birthday which means she still cares about you. I did that too for my exDA but he didn't respond back enough, just a thank you. She is too proud to hint more heavily - she sent the text, ball in your court. Would love to hear yasmin and other FAs/DAs point of view.
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Post by kelvain on Jan 10, 2018 19:43:37 GMT
My take is this: you have somehow communicated something that suggested to her you're not on the same page during the stressful period when she was pondering about her job situation. She didn't want to tell you what exactly it was, but she expected you to ask her about it. You exacerbated it by moving out - that would say to me loud and clear that you're breaking up. It's worse when you keep picking up more and moe of your stuff from her place. When you didn't text her on her birthday that was a big let down. She texted you on your birthday which means she still cares about you. I did that too for my exDA but he didn't respond back enough, just a thank you. She is too proud to hint more heavily - she sent the text, ball in your court. Would love to hear yasmin and other FAs/DAs point of view. Great insight Curious! Thanks for this!
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Post by kelvain on Jan 10, 2018 20:59:35 GMT
Follow question for any takers... After she broke it off, I reached out a week later with a letter pointing out the positives that I felt we enjoyed about our relationship. I also took the opportunity to share the info on our attachment styles, noting to her that I am very much for working on myself (which I had been for several months after being introduced to the concept) and giving her more space if she felt she needed. I also suggested that we try to discover our triggers so that we can avoid them. I was trying to be as accommodating as possible. She simply replied saying that it's never going to work. She is who she is and it's pointless to try to change and that she hopes that we could remain friends.
Following up, we were supposed to go to a concert this weekend for my birthday (planned a few months ago). She was being aloof and not getting back to me with a definitive answer on if she was still going. I finally asked her straight away if she didn't have any intention of going or if she didn't want to go and to please just be honest about it instead of stringing me along. She responded with "Ok. I don't want to go." That was the last time we communicated which was several days ago.
Her texting "Happy Birthday" could be self serving whereas I wouldn't put it past her as her attempt at "doing the right thing" because she doesn't want to ever be accused as doing the wrong thing or carry any blame for anything. She is very big on keeping things neat, tidy and in good appearances for anyone who may take notice.
Thanks all
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 6:51:27 GMT
Hmm...you don't seem to recognize that you sent out distancing messages to her too, moving to another room, moving to your sister's, removing your stuff, etc.? I find that you're escalating 'war", rather than making an effort to solve the communication problem It's also a bad sign when you interpret what she does in a negative light - eg. the "Happy Birthday" as a self-serving gesture. It doesn't bode well as it signals contempt. I tried to be nice to my exDA for his birthday and Christmas by sending gifts, it was heartfelt, but I'd be really hurt if he interpreted my wishes and gift as a way to manipulate the situation..after all, I was the one who broke up.
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Post by kelvain on Jan 11, 2018 13:07:03 GMT
Thanks for your insight curious. I see what you're saying. I perhaps could have acted differently for sure.
I did thank her for her happy birthday message. She had her two sons text me for my birthday which I immediately thanked them. I was hesitant about texting her but after considering insights from this forum, I decided that perhaps I should send her a thank you message.
Thanks much to all!
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Post by madamebovary on Jan 27, 2018 20:56:34 GMT
I am AP and I was like this. Being with my DA, who is avoidant but not nearly to the degree that many on this forum are, has made me see my own culpability on our issues. I was emotionally manipulative with him, I made everything about me, I couldn’t see that he was putting his emotions on the line as best he could. I could only see my side, see myself as the wronged party because all I wanted was “to love him” and what kind of jerk refuses someone else’s love (that’s sarcasm)? As the AP, I can see that I caused a good 75% of our problems.
I’ve been doing a lot of internal work and I only hope I can show my DA that I CAN be a safe place for him. I hope it’s not too late.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2018 22:19:21 GMT
we really do empower both of us in the relationship when we have the courage to examine ourselves. it’s a very loving thing to do. Bravo, madamebovary! 😍
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 11:17:19 GMT
Thanks for your insight curious. I see what you're saying. I perhaps could have acted differently for sure. I did thank her for her happy birthday message. She had her two sons text me for my birthday which I immediately thanked them. I was hesitant about texting her but after considering insights from this forum, I decided that perhaps I should send her a thank you message. Thanks much to all! So curious if things have changed! Do share if you’re willing and able to I see that some other posters have pointed out that you’ve “escalated” the war and also distanced, which might not have met what she wanted. From my reading, you’ve offered multiple times to talk and she did not take it, but continued on with hostility. Is it really wrong to simply walk away and not deal with it? If you have offered olive branches to talk and sort it out, but she didn’t take it, is it really so bad that you’ve distanced yourself from the hostility for your own well-being? Btw, I’m not saying the other posters are wrong or that you are - I’m just confused myself as to what is enough in meeting each other’s needs without sacrificing our own! This is my conundrum: as much as I can empathise and understand my DA’s behavior which can be hurtful, its also rather unrealistic and unreasonable to have me de-escalate fights to the extent that I have to ignore all the acting out as though they don’t hurt. Previously as a very activated AP, I could put the hurt aside m, ignore my needs and just retreat in order to keep the peace. Right now, to me as a AP regaining security (by quite simply detaching from my DA), I can deal with some bad behavior but hey, enough is enough. you’ve made your point. Then sometimes I feel bad for not being more empathetic and tolerance of his issues (is this the AP talking?). I keep switching between wanting to be more tolerant and losing patience! Kelvain, I agree with you that it’s remarkable how things have changed since perspectives have changed. I no longer get extremely happy when my DA texts, nor hunger nor obsess over being in touch and making the relationship perfect. If anything, I’m losing quite a lot of patience with it. It’s funny how when you move towards secure, the DA/AP loses a lot of their initial appeal.
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Post by kelvain on Jan 30, 2018 4:28:16 GMT
Kelvain, I agree with you that it’s remarkable how things have changed since perspectives have changed. I no longer get extremely happy when my DA texts, nor hunger nor obsess over being in touch and making the relationship perfect. If anything, I’m losing quite a lot of patience with it. It’s funny how when you move towards secure, the DA/AP loses a lot of their initial appeal.Hi anxious. I agree 100%. It's been over a month since our "official" break up although the relationship ended weeks earlier. However, I find that I don't think much about my ex DA at this point. I have come to realize that I had changed myself so much to be with her that I hardly recognized myself afterwards. Since we parted ways, I have been rediscovering myself and I feel AWESOME! I am regaining my sense of self, along with my confidence, as well as getting back into so many things that I stopped enjoying because I was too busy trying to please her and fit into her compartmentalized life. I'm uncertain if I would want to try again with her if she came back. Of course, at first I wanted her back like crazy. But now...not so much. I'm finding that I'm happy and comfortable on my own. I don't have that anxiety over worrying if she will be happy to see or hear from me, or if she will treat me like an unwelcome stranger. In summary, if I did give my ex DA another chance (yes, I worded it like that purposely because I would have to be convinced), then she would need to be willing to work together on finding common ground. In short, there has to be something worth my going back to, otherwise I'm good.
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Post by kristyrose on Jan 30, 2018 4:48:37 GMT
Hey everyone,
I'm late to this convo but read it all.
Kelvain I applaud how you made such a tremendous effort whilst keeping yourself in mind.
I actually feel myself exercising more secure behavior these days, baby stepping of course, but I feel a bit bummed that it's too late for me. Wish I had been more self-aware with my FA ex, however, I won't fool myself into believing the outcome would have been different. I see now that we both came into it needing a lot of help, he always refused and I kept going but let my AP style really rule my actions.
Live and learn, but glad you are hear and sharing your story. Thank you!
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