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Post by ocarina on Feb 3, 2018 14:57:02 GMT
Everything you initially posted Yasmin is me too -almost uncannily so. The only relationships I make a mysterious and sudden exit from are the ones where I feel anxious about being unloved or left. It also takes me months, sometimes years of friendship to brave a romantic attachment - although in the past I have had superficial flings with no attachment whatsoever. Anywhere in the middle ie OLD or similar gives me the heebie jeebies!
I think that once I have past my initial flightiness I make a good partner but need the calm and consistency that my last partner didn't bring - or at least he didn't bring it often enough to allow me to get past my fear.
It takes an awful lot of time patience and gentle respect to tame me!
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Post by yasmin on Feb 3, 2018 20:19:03 GMT
Everything you initially posted Yasmin is me too -almost uncannily so. The only relationships I make a mysterious and sudden exit from are the ones where I feel anxious about being unloved or left. It also takes me months, sometimes years of friendship to brave a romantic attachment - although in the past I have had superficial flings with no attachment whatsoever. Anywhere in the middle ie OLD or similar gives me the heebie jeebies! I think that once I have past my initial flightiness I make a good partner but need the calm and consistency that my last partner didn't bring - or at least he didn't bring it often enough to allow me to get past my fear. It's exciting for me to meet someone with such a similar childhood and consequential attachment style. It's also a bit humbling to read these forums and see myself in a clearer light too. I remember back to sooo many relationships where the guy I was dating was either secure and my FA tendencies turned him a little AP or he was AP and my FA tendencies made him worse. I think I always saw myself in a sick way as some kind of Helen of troy where men just could not help falling in love with me, and with new eyes I see than my avoidant behavior just caused them pain and confusion. It's a lesson I wish I learned when I was younger because I know some men who 20 years later are still hurt by me. Not that I did anything cruel, but just because I didn;t love them back. I feel so strongly this desire to attach, to be loved and to love and to be part of a pair but I know in my deepest self that idea is also repugnant to me and almost seems alien. The dichotomy is like ongoing torture of self. In my past relationships, which were happy and loving and secure, if I am honest with myself I always knew the guy adored me - but maybe I never quite felt as much back for him. There was always a part of me that knew he loved me more. If you live like that, how do you ever be happy? Anyway, almost all my long relationships have come from friendship. People who try and date me outside that boundary will almost always get dumped or rejected early on because I just find it hard to take a chance. I do really love people, but I guess not in that crazy passionate way that they love me. My recent relationship with an FA was the first experience of loving an avoidant and it brought out an almost desperate craving for this person and a belief he was the only person who could ever make me happy. this was crazy hot passion like I never felt before. And I agree his avoidance maybe allowed me to attach in the first place. He gave me just enough that he was always a little out of my reach. Understanding all this is really helping me to detach from my addiction to him. I am also capable of having superficial flings with no attachment results at all, I can disconnect completely and care nothing about the person or what they think of me. But if I do really like them or really care, I find it very difficult to believe they are not going to hurt me, so I behave a little crazy. I remember a couple of years ago this guy had asked me out for around 9 months, and slowly he'd won points. He was a surgeon and one night a friend was hurt and he helped me while I waited for the ambulance and so because he did that I decided he "earned" a date. We went on this one, fantastic date and I actually really liked him, then the next morning he didn't text me until 3pm and when he did his text was just quite short and I was convinced he didn't like me anymore so sent him a text saying "thanks for a nice date but I don't think it will work out". A few days passed and he replied with a long ramble about how much I'd hurt him and how he felt we'd had a great date and everything, and I was GENUINELY shocked, because in my FA mind, the fact that this guy had hounded me for 9 months just to get a date was irrelevant - he didn't text me until 3pm, therefore he was going to hurt me and didn't like me. With hindsight, being insecure in that situation was actually ridiculous, but I was totally convinced. I ended up ruining that relationship with extreme FA behavior that swung between rejecting him and protest behavior and I think the poor guy was probably just totally confused. I really hope I can move past all this, and I am glad you're healing Ocarina. It's a painful way to live. |
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Post by ocarina on Feb 3, 2018 20:33:25 GMT
I am certainly not there yet Yasmin but here's hoping!
My sister told me recently that a guy who I had dated and was really into, but pulled away from as I assumed he wasn't keen, had confided in her that he'd given up since it was obvious I wasn't into him!!! Bizarre glasses we see this world through!
When I was young it was fun to live this way - with buckets of male adoration and as you described a Helen of Troy femme fatale persona. I never really showed anyone who I really was and was convinced that if I did so they would leave - it would all become too real. That's an exhausting and painful way to live and horribly lonely.
In my last relationship I was much more authentic - maybe not all the way yet, but I am proud of myself for eventually sticking to my guns and being unafraid (perhaps unafraid isn't the right word - maybe courageous despite the fear!) enough to stand up for what I needed and risk being vulnerable.
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Post by yasmin on Feb 3, 2018 20:40:56 GMT
I am certainly not there yet Yasmin but here's hoping! My sister told me recently that a guy who I had dated and was really into, but pulled away from as I assumed he wasn't keen, had confided in her that he'd given up since it was obvious I wasn't into him!!! Bizarre glasses we see this world through! When I was young it was fun to live this way - with buckets of male adoration and as you described a Helen of Troy femme fatale persona. I never really showed anyone who I really was and was convinced that if I did so they would leave - it would all become too real. That's an exhausting and painful way to live and horribly lonely. In my last relationship I was much more authentic - maybe not all the way yet, but I am proud of myself for eventually sticking to my guns and being unafraid (perhaps unafraid isn't the right word - maybe courageous despite the fear!) enough to stand up for what I needed and risk being vulnerable. I could have written this post...... Hugs. |
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Post by jayber on Feb 4, 2018 11:38:56 GMT
This is a really interesting thread. The insight from FAs is therapeutic for me now even past my FA ex.
What's really interesting is seeing how communication (aka real intimacy) is so important to give both partners clarity. When my FA once told me they were dissociating when I was having an argument with them, that truth about how they were really feeling gave me all the information I needed and I calmed down and chilled and treated them with respect for what they were experiencing.
I still feel sad my relationship didn't work. There was only so many times I could absorb behaviour which was (unintentionally) hurtful. They still try to get in touch but going back would just be painful for me.
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Post by bedlam71 on Feb 4, 2018 14:58:26 GMT
When you say you don't show them your real self, what does that mean? What are you masking?
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Post by ocarina on Feb 4, 2018 18:16:45 GMT
When you say you don't show them your real self, what does that mean? What are you masking? I suppose this is a metaphor for not really showing up in the relationship, being frightened to admit to vulnerability, to imperfection which ultimately means living in a persona that is not 100% real. In reality there is fear - which is masked by bravado, by great coping skills and inner "strength" - fear is being masked by alot of the distancing behaviours - fear of relying on someone who deserts you, fear of getting close to someone who doesn't care about you and subsequently being hurt. Fear of showing vulnerability and then being rejected. That vulnerability is often a need for love and security but this is something that as an FA i find it difficult to admit. As soon as someone knows I have feelings and I am not superhuman, I have lost control and that is pretty alarming.# I am not a monster - I am compassionate and caring but I do have a kind of detachment in relationships which could be hurtful - it is not intentional in any way and there's no hiding some terrible secret - it's just that the successful, confident attractive woman you see doesn't feel that way inside - but does her very best to make sure nobody knows that. |
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Post by bedlam71 on Feb 4, 2018 18:28:33 GMT
Instead of living in fear, wouldn't it be better to be vulnerable, take a risk on love, and then deal with the hurt if and when it arises? Otherwise, you are creating suffering for yourself and others all along the way, then it ends and there is more suffering.
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Post by ocarina on Feb 4, 2018 19:08:46 GMT
Instead of living in fear, wouldn't it be better to be vulnerable, take a risk on love, and then deal with the hurt if and when it arises? Otherwise, you are creating suffering for yourself and others all along the way, then it ends and there is more suffering. Yes - were it possible to wave a magic wand. Unfortunately it isn't as simple as that - these are entrenched patterns as are all attachment styles, hewn from childhood years and genetic blueprints as well as the myriads of life experiences we have all encountered and processed in different ways. Whether we like it or not these things become us and it's a process to deconstruct patterns. At least for most people here there is some kind of recognition which has got to be the first step. |
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Post by bedlam71 on Feb 4, 2018 19:26:41 GMT
I agree and it's also a decision. I have struggled with abandoment issues. Would push my gf's away and then bring her back. I made the decision that that was no longer an option and took it off the table. Every emotion has an urge connected to it. For fear, it's fight/flight/freeze. It's been negatively reinforced to run in that it takes away the fear. Acting opposite to the urge is to approach. Of course the decision to approach needs to come from wisdom rather than emotion. These behaviors have created ruts In our brains. All we need to do is make a slight turn and a new pathway is created. It is hard.
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Post by ocarina on Feb 4, 2018 19:42:30 GMT
I agree and it's also a decision. I have struggled with abandoment issues. Would push my gf's away and then bring her back. I made the decision that that was no longer an option and took it off the table. Every emotion has an urge connected to it. For fear, it's fight/flight/freeze. It's been negatively reinforced to run in that it takes away the fear. Acting opposite to the urge is to approach. Of course the decision to approach needs to come from wisdom rather than emotion. These behaviors have created ruts In our brains. All we need to do is make a slight turn and a new pathway is created. It is hard. Absolutely it takes a decision - what I have only recently recognised is how avoidant behaviour characterises my life in so many ways - it's difficult to break it down. But as we were discussing in this and other recent threads, it's pervasive for some of us - it becomes us or we become it. I too have been working on sitting with discomfort and leaning in as opposed to walking away or numbing. For me it is nothing short of an entirely new way of being. I have made a decision to be happy to let go of the past and learn to tolerate these feelings. Closeness is a tricky one - I think I inherently need space around me and therefore my choice of partners will be limited I also don't have a strong urge to develop relationships so it's difficult to practice! |
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Post by yasmin on Feb 4, 2018 21:47:48 GMT
This is a really interesting thread. The insight from FAs is therapeutic for me now even past my FA ex. What's really interesting is seeing how communication (aka real intimacy) is so important to give both partners clarity. When my FA once told me they were dissociating when I was having an argument with them, that truth about how they were really feeling gave me all the information I needed and I calmed down and chilled and treated them with respect for what they were experiencing. I still feel sad my relationship didn't work. There was only so many times I could absorb behaviour which was (unintentionally) hurtful. They still try to get in touch but going back would just be painful for me. One thing I will say though Jayber is that these things are a sliding scale. If I like someone and they are patient, consistent and don't crowd me or reject me then I can commit to very long relationships. I think some FAs are so seriously into it though that they are almost impossible to have a relationship with. It's very, very, very painful to be trapped inside a mine that really and truly wants love and intimacy as much as you do, but to be only cabable on engaging it in the form of fantasy rather than as a real life experience. |
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Post by yasmin on Feb 4, 2018 21:49:19 GMT
When you say you don't show them your real self, what does that mean? What are you masking? I suppose this is a metaphor for not really showing up in the relationship, being frightened to admit to vulnerability, to imperfection which ultimately means living in a persona that is not 100% real. In reality there is fear - which is masked by bravado, by great coping skills and inner "strength" - fear is being masked by alot of the distancing behaviours - fear of relying on someone who deserts you, fear of getting close to someone who doesn't care about you and subsequently being hurt. Fear of showing vulnerability and then being rejected. That vulnerability is often a need for love and security but this is something that as an FA i find it difficult to admit. As soon as someone knows I have feelings and I am not superhuman, I have lost control and that is pretty alarming.# I am not a monster - I am compassionate and caring but I do have a kind of detachment in relationships which could be hurtful - it is not intentional in any way and there's no hiding some terrible secret - it's just that the successful, confident attractive woman you see doesn't feel that way inside - but does her very best to make sure nobody knows that. yes, and distancing behaviours that are both avoidant and anxious just to make it even more difficult!!! |
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Post by yasmin on Feb 4, 2018 21:51:18 GMT
Instead of living in fear, wouldn't it be better to be vulnerable, take a risk on love, and then deal with the hurt if and when it arises? Otherwise, you are creating suffering for yourself and others all along the way, then it ends and there is more suffering. Also easier if an anorexic just ate. I think it's very difficult to understand, but the fear doesn't feel like fear - it just feels like you don't want it. So very difficult to overcome fear when it doesn't even feel like fear, it just feels like something you don't like / don't want |
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Post by ocarina on Feb 4, 2018 21:54:38 GMT
Instead of living in fear, wouldn't it be better to be vulnerable, take a risk on love, and then deal with the hurt if and when it arises? Otherwise, you are creating suffering for yourself and others all along the way, then it ends and there is more suffering. Also easier if an anorexic just ate. I think it's very difficult to understand, but the fear doesn't feel like fear - it just feels like you don't want it. So very difficult to overcome fear when it doesn't even feel like fear, it just feels like something you don't like / don't want Well said Yasmin - if only it was that easy.... and that is exactly what it feels like - not fear but just an overwhelming urge not to! |
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